Joshyboy1984 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Well we didn't have a prolific goalscorer between Owen leaving and Torres coming in. We had, iirc, Cisse(1 in 4), Baros (1 in 3.5), Crouch (1 in 4), Morientes (1 in 5)? I'm sure I'm missing someone, but anyway, we qualified for the CL every year under Benitez in 04/05, 05/06 and 06/07 without a striker that scored even 1 in 3 in the league. Did any of our strikers even hit double figures in the league in any of those three seasons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Kuyt got 12 in 06/07 I'm sure I'm missing someone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Those years we had lots of players that would chip in with a few goals here and there tho. The supporting cast was good for 20 league goals a season combined which takes the pressure off for the guys that are expected to score. Now its Suarez and then nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Sure. We narrow too much in on Suarez and the fact we haven't got a 20 league goal per season centre forward when really we've had one season where a striker hit 20 league goals in the last 15 years. Torres in 07/08. Lack of goals is a team problem. Glen Johnson is our 3rd biggest goal threat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinLFC Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Sure. We narrow too much in on Suarez and the fact we haven't got a 20 league goal per season centre forward when really we've had one season where a striker hit 20 league goals in the last 15 years. Torres in 07/08. Lack of goals is a team problem. Glen Johnson is our 3rd biggest goal threat. Sterling? I can seem him getting a few if he gets in the right postions but so far he has had 1 or 2 good chances so maybe some coaching needed there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Sterling and Borini currently rivaling Downing for league goals and assists. But get away with it because they're young. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Sterling and Borini currently rivaling Downing for league goals and assists. But get away with it because they're young. Not taking into consideration the fact they have played less than 10 games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Hope so, he's a good finisher from the odd reserve video we've seen of him. I think when we get a few easier games at home we'll hopefully see some of these dancing runs he makes into the box come with an end product. An assist or good attempt on goal. I'm so positive on him. I think he's really remarkable. Completed 34 out of 35 passes yesterday. And yeah, it's a stat that's not impressive on it's own but when you consider the fact that he makes such good decisions it kind of encapsulates him I think. That fact is when teenage flair players come through you usually see all the ability they have and sometimes they have loads of pace. But how often do they have no decision making abilities whatsoever? Or end product? For a 17 year old to slot into a Premiership side and look like he gets what we should be doing and what's required of him from an intelligence point of view is quite something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinLFC Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Suarez is averaging a goal every other game, that's pretty good as far as I'm concerned, so I don't really think he deserves much flak for the chances he fluffs compared to everyone else on the team who isn't scoring.Would be nice to have at least one central midfielder who knows how to find the back of the net. He is but there are games when we draw 0-0 and hes misses 5 but bangs one in the following week but we get beat and then he might score in a 3-0 win which means his goals arnt counting for much. I like to see some stats showing how crucial his goals has been though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFan7 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 2 goals from 23 shots isn't so great really, his misses this season have been costly and he's made a fair few bad finishes for the player you expect to be hitting the back of the net. You make the chances and don't end them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFan7 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I just went and looked at Steven Fletchers stats on ESPN. 2 games - 3 goals - 3 shots CLINICAL. Also looked at a few others, Suarez doesn't do well in comparison, I suppose it's nowhere near as simple as those two statistics together but it gives a rough outlook and you must really think Suarez should be doing better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 He is but there are games when we draw 0-0 and hes misses 5 but bangs one in the following week but we get beat and then he might score in a 3-0 win which means his goals arnt counting for much. I like to see some stats showing how crucial his goals has been though. Like the goal yesterday? In fact all 3 of his goals so far this season have been goals that have changed the result from a loss to a draw. I just went and looked at Steven Fletchers stats on ESPN. 2 games - 3 goals - 3 shots CLINICAL. Also looked at a few others, Suarez doesn't do well in comparison, I suppose it's nowhere near as simple as those two statistics together but it gives a rough outlook and you must really think Suarez should be doing better. Yeah it could and should be better given the chances that he's had and fluffed. But his rate is still better than every other midfielder and striker we have, because none of them have even found the net yet (in the league that is) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jep Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Does anyone think this current squad is really good enough to challenge for 4th? Our Last 80 League games (since Rafa left) P80 W31 D19 L30 F109 A92 Pts112 The last 80 League games under Rafa: P80 W46 D21 L13 F145 A67 Pts159 The previous 80 League games under Rafa: P80 W46 D20 L14 F135 A58 Pts158 We are no longer a club that challenges for the top 4. We have gone from being a team that averaged 75 points a season to a team that averaged 53 points a season. We are mid table and nothing more - since sacking a world class manager we have paid the ultimate price and the club has got what it deserved which was mediocrity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Sterling and Borini currently rivaling Downing for league goals and assists. But get away with it because they're young. Is that a '0'? Sterling got an assist the other day, didn't he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Is that a '0'? Sterling got an assist the other day, didn't he? That would be Titus Bramble. Although the goal did come from his hard work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Saying Suarez scores 1 in 2 and that's a great record needs to be put in the context of every attack going through him, as others have noted, conversion rate is just as important. That said I don't really put much blame on him, he creates as many chances out of nothing as good ones he fluffs, I'm sure we'll bring in a central striker in Jan and he'll get moved out wide and he'll look much better. Also feel a bit bad for Borini who at any club with some depth in squad would be given more time off the bench rather than starting and allowed longer to settle, think some fans (not many on here, but a lot elsewhere) need to realise that it's hardly his fault he is a) a starter due to lack of options, b) not playing in his natural position, and c) used up a higher percentage of the transfer budget than we or BR would have liked.Under ideal circumstances you'd give a player like him at least a year to settle, give him cup and europa games and time off the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Also feel a bit bad for Borini who at any club with some depth in squad would be given more time off the bench rather than starting and allowed longer to settle, think some fans (not many on here, but a lot elsewhere) need to realise that it's hardly his fault he is a) a starter due to lack of options, b) not playing in his natural position, and c) used up a higher percentage of the transfer budget than we or BR would have liked.Under ideal circumstances you'd give a player like him at least a year to settle, give him cup and europa games and time off the bench. that doesnt necessarily wash with me though, good players can come in and play straight away just like allen and sterling have. he's offered very little so far and he played through the middle on saturday and was taken off in the 2nd half largely because he went missing. not ready to throw him on the scrapheap or nothing but for a large chunk of our budget it seems we could have done better (fletcher?). still think he will score goals though no doubt and lets just hope he's a slow starter and comes good with more games. lets face it hes gonna have to because we're criminally short of options and he's gonna get plenty of games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think Borini just needs a goal or two in the league to give him a confidence boost and he will kick on and be fine. I'm not looking forward to Sunday's game, I can see us playing well but still conceding goals from dodgy defending. The following 3 fixtures are where we really need to pick up maximum points and get our season going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 some people can come in and play straight away sure, and some can be rubbish for a half a season or a season and then absolutely shine. he's 21 and has only had 1 season of top flight football. unless you're asking for all good footballers to settle straight away despite moving countries and playing in a new position i'm not sure what your point is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Lucas was awesome when he first started for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonus1010 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Lucas was awesome when he first started for us. Forgot to add there Cap !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminpeter Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 that doesnt necessarily wash with me though, good players can come in and play straight away just like allen and sterling have. he's offered very little so far and he played through the middle on saturday and was taken off in the 2nd half largely because he went missing. not ready to throw him on the scrapheap or nothing but for a large chunk of our budget it seems we could have done better (fletcher?). still think he will score goals though no doubt and lets just hope he's a slow starter and comes good with more games. lets face it hes gonna have to because we're criminally short of options and he's gonna get plenty of games. It really depends on the player, they are just people after all. I think we sometimes imagine that professional footballers are all confidence and belief in their own ability. It must be somewhat difficult for a 21 year old lad to come to a club like Liverpool and be expected to perform. Some would see it as a massive opportunity, while other could also see it as a massive hill to climb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Lucas was awesome when he first started for us. yeah but we had cover back then, he was bought as a prospect, borini was bought as a first teamer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 was he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawee Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Even Henry took a while to settle in at ARsenal. I think it took him 8 games before he scored, although he did look much better than Borini even in the games he didn't score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yes, if Rodgers' comments at the time were anything to go by, ddded to him being instantly played over Carroll. The fact is he's just not very good. Regardless of age, its quite easy to see already. He hasn't shown anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Even Henry took a while to settle in at ARsenal. I think it took him 8 games before he scored, although he did look much better than Borini even in the games he didn't score. Henry hadn't been living and playing in England for 4 of the previous 5 years before Arsenal bought him either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 so he wasn't brought in as a first choice winger then, which is where he's been forced to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 has there been any update on Assaidi? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRJ Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Samed Yesil and Suso will both travel in LFC squad for Europa League game this week apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 so he wasn't brought in as a first choice winger then, which is where he's been forced to play. Its where he played for Roma for the most part by all accounts. He played as the furthest man forward in the first half against Sunderland and wasn't very good then either. Not only that, Suarez was woeful coming in from the left. We were much better in the second half once Suarez reverted to playing more central and Downing was on for Borini. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Its where he played for Roma for the most part by all accounts. He played as the furthest man forward in the first half against Sunderland and wasn't very good then either. Not only that, Suarez was woeful coming in from the left. We were much better in the second half once Suarez reverted to playing more central and Downing was on for Borini. yes, he played wide forward for us I think part of the reason of why he have been so poor in the first few games is that Liverpool dont have anywhere close to enough creative players to carry a player of limited technical ability like Borini along, like I said before a few pages back (page 49 to be more specific), he is more or less invisible until he does a good off the ball run and finish a move, he dont add much else and will probably never learn to do much else Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Even Henry took a while to settle in at ARsenal. I think it took him 8 games before he scored, although he did look much better than Borini even in the games he didn't score. Dont even get me started on Dennis Bergkamp either . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawee Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Do you think that perhaps the formation is not bringing out the best in the players. Playing 4-3-3 requires some good widemen, and you simply don't have that. It's crazy that a 17 year old is your best winger. Downing and Borini have been disappointing so far. Perhaps, you'll be best suited to try and bring the most out of Suarez and Borini. Some kind of 4-2-3-1 perhaps. With Suarez and the second striker, you'll have the same amount of creativity going forward as you have now (it'll still be 2 wingers and Suarez) but this time, you'll have an actual striker up top in the form of Borini, instead of Suarez. This would mean less attacking burden on your central midfielders, but more defensive discipline from them, since there'll only be two of them holding. I can see Sahin and Allen doing the job well, and with their technical abilities, provide quite a bit of creativity from deeper central midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 suarez has been crying out for some support the last few games, someone to play off and shelvey did ok for the most part trying that on saturday. i think the 4-2-3-1 is basically what hes trying to play with the 2-1 triangle in midfield, it just hasnt clicked yet as hes trying different ways of getting that to work. gerrard in his heyday is obviously the best but not sure he's got the legs for all the bursting runs anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Judging players after four competitive games for the club ffs. Only equalled in stupidity by judging the manager from the same number tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Borini looks like a player that has been taught to play football, rather than having natural talent. Someone who is probably a great player on the training pitch, listens to everything the manager says, has a good brain and works hard but just doesn't have that instinct. I do really like his off the ball movement, I think he needs to get on the same wavelength as one of the creative players before he starts scoring regularly. I'd rather have him in the team than Carroll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Judging players after four competitive games for the club ffs. Only equalled in stupidity by judging the manager from the same number tbh. Thats why I'm making early judgements on him after double that? He's played 8 times for us now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Oh, 8 games, well those four Europa League qualifying matches make all the difference, how could I have been so mistaken. Sorry for that judgement still being idiotic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Apology accepted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Borini looks like a player that has been taught to play football, rather than having natural talent. Someone who is probably a great player on the training pitch, listens to everything the manager says, has a good brain and works hard but just doesn't have that instinct.I do really like his off the ball movement, I think he needs to get on the same wavelength as one of the creative players before he starts scoring regularly. I'd rather have him in the team than Carroll. Who are these creative players you speak of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Who are these creative players you speak of? said a few pages back that Liverpool badly needed one more creative attacking player to play in the front 3, no mather the cost as long as the player was good enough, just suarez on his own is simply not enough at this level, and that this was more important then replacing aqua with allen (since both of those could do a similar job) or geting someone like borini in at the expense of kuyt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8089605/Reds-to-fast-track-starlet Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers admits he is ready to fast-track young striker Samed Yesil into the first-team reckoning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 If he's good enough, he's old enough . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Would like to see Suso and Yesil getting some game time tomorrow night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 we're playing on Thurs, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Emerson joins the blonde moment club . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRJ Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Only way to save face is to quickly change his location to Australia and claim he's right in his time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Nah, that would be worse, it'd be Friday. You've joined him too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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