Will the final retail version be this easy?

[SeanNUFC]

Quite realistic then

I can say that, i'm a liverpool fan.

Ok then, that makes sense...........................................

[davehanson]

I know it seems like a stupid question to ask, and I am sure the answer will be 'the game is exactly the same as the demo', but I have to ask this anyway...........................

Every single year I have downloaded the demo and done rather well at it, no matter who I played as. Then, when I play the full game I always seem to struggle at first, a problem I don't come up against in the demo.

In this years demo I decided to be Manchester United, I realise they are a big team and it should be easier with them than say playing as QPR, Swansea etc (no disrespect to fans of those clubs), but it seems a little too easy to me. I am now at the very begining of November and have a 100% record in the league and 14 wins in 15 competitve games so far. And they haven't been lucky victories, they have been dominating performances.

Please don't think this is a bragging thread, far from it. As I said every year I download the demo and every year it seems to be the same, the demo seems very easy compared to the full game. Does anyone else find this. Is the demo 'dummed down' to get people interested? Fairly sure I know the answer I'll get to this - but I have to ask as it appears this way to me.

[Loversleaper]

Just completed a half a season game with Atlanta, media prediction 20th - no signings what so ever:

By loversleaper at 2011-10-09

Basically it was a walk in the park, even let the Assistant take care of team talks and press conferences. Final league table:

By loversleaper at 2011-10-09

If my team didn't have 6 points deducted I would be serious titel contenders. Not bad, or...

[AcidBurn]

I hope you realise that you have now subjected yourself to being told several times in various ways "what do you expect when you play as Man United?"

I have found the game not that easy I finished the demo in 8th with Sunderland but the amount of goals that the AI put past my side was embarrassing. With Roma I was 2nd but had stupid losses against crap teams and thrashed the bigger sides. I think the difficulty is just about right.

[The Welsh Lad]

What you got to think of the demo is a small database with just the english leagues loaded (if you chose England Quick Start) so majority of european clubs have less real players. So it will be slightly easier, don't forget that moral of the players has a bit to do with getting results. When the full game comes out when you start a game you add the spanish leagues, italian league, germany leagues etc. So european teams will have they're full quarter so european cup matches will be harder etc.

[Shaun_MUFC]

A lot of people have said this to me. Although personally, because of the increased detail in the game, I have been doing everything possible to do well and so still get a sense of achievement even if I am winning comfortably. I think those people that do the minimum amount required and yet still succeed are the people that find the game 'too easy.' Maybe this is just me, I don't know whether other people find this too.

[Smurf]

We're not that far into this season in real life. But Man Utd have not lost a game this season yet, and they have drawn 1 game.

They have an 85% record right now.

Arsenal went unbeaten for over a season. It happens.

But I know what you mean. In every game I've started in the demo I've done quite well but with big teams it's bound to be easy. Try with a lower leauge team and see if you find it easy or hard?

I am finding it quite easy. With stints with Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City so far. Going to try a mediocre or terrible team next.

One thing though, the match engine won't be perfected in the demo, but it will be tweaked for the release. It will never be perfected, imo. But it will be better in final release. And even then they'll patch it once or twice to make it better again.

[davehanson]

I hope you realise that you have now subjected yourself to being told several times in various ways "what do you expect when you play as Man United?"

I have found the game not that easy I finished the demo in 8th with Sunderland but the amount of goals that the AI put past my side was embarrassing. With Roma I was 2nd but had stupid losses against crap teams and thrashed the bigger sides. I think the difficulty is just about right.

I know Man Utd are easier than Sunderland for example. But, as Utd I beat Chelsea 4-1 with a midfield of Valencia, Cleverley, Park and Thiago (Barcelona). And, as I said the point I was getting at was it always seems like this to me. Do really well on the demo and then struggle for a few months on the final release. I was always under the impression that the demo was the final release - just a 6 month version, it just sometimes doesn't seem to be that way.

[Neil Brock]

No the demo is not 'dumbed down' from the main game. If there are matches you think you're winning when it should be harder raise the issue on the bugs forum and we'll look into it. Saying that, I'd imagine Man Utd are one of the best teams in the game, and if you play a decent tactic against teams then it's likely you'll be on top. There's always those types of games where the 'away' side gets lucky and say has one shot from one goal, but if you're not coming across this anywhere within the game please let us know. Thanks.

[shirajzl]

It's your tactics, Loversleaper.

[Piethief100]

If it's too easy why don't you play as QPR or Swansea? I really don't understand your gripe. Is this a troll post?

[davehanson]

No the demo is not 'dumbed down' from the main game. If there are matches you think you're winning when it should be harder raise the issue on the bugs forum and we'll look into it. Saying that, I'd imagine Man Utd are one of the best teams in the game, and if you play a decent tactic against teams then it's likely you'll be on top. There's always those types of games where the 'away' side gets lucky and say has one shot from one goal, but if you're not coming across this anywhere within the game please let us know. Thanks.

Neil, it is a fantastic game. I was always fairly sure of the answer you'd (SI) would give, but it just seems that way to me. Perhaps I have just been lucky so far, and over the course of the season someone will get lucky against me?

[grep]

Just completed a half a season game with Atlanta, media prediction 20th - no signings what so ever:

By loversleaper at 2011-10-09

Basically it was a walk in the park, even let the Assistant take care of team talks and press conferences. Final league table:

By loversleaper at 2011-10-09

If my team didn't have 6 points deducted I would be serious titel contenders. Not bad, or...

Ok, we are facing a tragedy, please SI tomorrow is Monday, take a huge coffee and deploy a task force to fix this tremendous show stopper bug.

[shirajzl]

Play half a season with Swansea and let us know what happens. Isn't that the right way to prove the game is too easy?

[davehanson]

If it's too easy why don't you play as QPR or Swansea? I really don't understand your gripe. Is this a troll post?

Are you a troll? Really?

Did you not read the post, or was it too complicated for you? I can appreciate that it is easier with Man Utd, as I said in the OP, than QPR or Swansea. I can understand that. But, that is not what my post was about.

I always seem to do well in the demo and then struggle in the full game for quite some time. I'm not sure how much clearer I could have been tbh.

[grep]

No the demo is not 'dumbed down' from the main game. If there are matches you think you're winning when it should be harder raise the issue on the bugs forum and we'll look into it. Saying that, I'd imagine Man Utd are one of the best teams in the game, and if you play a decent tactic against teams then it's likely you'll be on top. There's always those types of games where the 'away' side gets lucky and say has one shot from one goal, but if you're not coming across this anywhere within the game please let us know. Thanks.

In another thread a guy just reported the same weird behaviour playing as Atalanta, a real poor Serie A team. Well, he is winning almost every match, just take a look at his screenshot.

Atalanta is a small Serie A team ( just promoted from serie B !! ) so it is not Manchester Utd indeed.

Within the bug forum there is already a thread about this show stopper bug.

Thx

[Loversleaper]

It's your tactics, Loversleaper.

Sadly, no...

I normally will use Classic tactics once I get a feel to the game, but it wasn't necessary this time around. I simply used the TC, fluid attacking 4-4-2. Default for all team instructions except for 'shorter passing', 'stick to position' and 'zonal marking'.

GK: normal, defend

CD: normal, defend

FB: normal, support

MR/ML: wingers, attack

MCL: normal, defend

MCR: normal, support

FCL: advanced, attack

FCR: deep lying, support

Not a single custom tweak anywhere...

[Piethief100]

Are you a troll? Really?

Did you not read the post, or was it too complicated for you? I can appreciate that it is easier with Man Utd, as I said in the OP, than QPR or Swansea. I can understand that. But, that is not what my post was about.

I always seem to do well in the demo and then struggle in the full game for quite some time. I'm not sure how much clearer I could have been tbh.

You believe that the demo is dumbed down on the basis of your positive initial results as one of the best teams in the world... and I'm the troll? Exactly what is out of the ordinary there. Next thing you'll be telling us you're amazed because Messi is a good player in FM.

Suggesting playing as QPR or Swansea would seem a pretty sensible way of working out the true level of this game, not playing as a team who have been utterly dominant in their division for the last god knows how long.

I'm out anyway. I was simply expressing my amazment at your premise, not trying to turn this thread into an argument. Feel free to PM me if you wish to, but I'll stay out of this thread for forum harmony reason I think

[kevin3]

First off - I don't work on the PC version these days (FMH (and particularly the iPhone game) is my baby) so I can't comment too much on the PC game, so please excuse me for not drawing conclusions too much.

However I would like people not to get overly carried away about one screenshot being posted of a result - I could easily replicate that by taking over liverpool and playing most of the match out of formation (ie. keeper up front etc.) ... I'm not saying that is the case and obviously it should be looked into, if it is an honest result I'm sure that Kevin3 will help us by posting a bug report about it and I'm sure someone from QA will request the pkm/save game in due course and we'll try and ascertain what happened and why.

PS - As with most people at SI I've played a fair few seasons on FM2012 already and I don't think its particularly 'easier' than previously versions personally ... although some of the features are slightly more intuitive and easier to understand which might indeed help people who were struggling, not because of their lack of knowledge or ability - but because of a misinterpretation of something.

With regards to people from SI 'not responding' to the thread - do bear in mind its the weekend chaps, most people do get some downtime from work ... even when they enjoy their jobs.

(thats my 'general take' rather than a company line - as I said, I'm not working on FM PC these days ...)

It is a geniune result and I have taken your advice and reported it. Looking back over the game I just noticed that Martin Skrtel ended up with a player rating of just 0.3!!!!!!!. I have never seen a player rating that low but to be fair after watching all the goals he had an absolute shocker!!

Here's all the goals (albeit poor quality.)

[video=youtube;QSk-NNxHziI]

[Motherlover]

A lot of people have said this to me. Although personally, because of the increased detail in the game, I have been doing everything possible to do well and so still get a sense of achievement even if I am winning comfortably. I think those people that do the minimum amount required and yet still succeed are the people that find the game 'too easy.' Maybe this is just me, I don't know whether other people find this too.

On the contray, I do everything possible to win (except use cheats/exploits/downloaded tactics) and constantly overperform. Then I complain that it's too easy because it doesn't feel very satisfying to me.

I think there is always going to be a struggle to please both the 'hardcore' and the 'casual' fan at the same time. If you visit this forum you are probably going to be closer to the former than the latter.

I don't want difficulty modes. FM seems to pride itself on being a fairly credible simulation rather than just a game and in most games difficulty modes seem to involve empowering/depowering the relative strengths of the human or AI players.

Instead what I would I like to see are lots more optional handicaps. These would focus on removing information that you have access to which there is no parrallel in real life. For instance i'd like option at the start to go without the 'Player Search' tool.

Now people might say: Well duh, you could just not use Player Search, no one is forcing you too stoopid. But you know what? Not everyone operates like that. For me that's like telling me if I don't like medpacks in a shooter then I should simply refrain from picking them up. It's missing the point.

I both similtaneously want to use everything at my disposal to win, yet at the same time I don't want to have things at my disposal that feel overpowered. Fair enough if people want these tools in the game. All i'm asking for is the ability to turn them off if I so choose.

[Kriss]

Now people might say: Well duh, you could just not use Player Search, no one is forcing you too stoopid. But you know what? Not everyone operates like that. For me that's like telling me if I don't like medpacks in a shooter then I should refrain from picking them up. It's missing the point.

I both similtaneously want to use everything at my disposal to win, yet at the same time I don't want to have things at my disposal that I feel are overpowered. Fair enough if people want these tools in the game. All i'm asking for is the ability to turn them off if I so choose.

We LLaMa's fully support you in that:D I'd think that enabling "disable player/staff search" would be quite simple to do as well, guess nobody has ever suggested it before.

[Neil Brock]

In another thread a guy just reported the same weird behaviour playing as Atalanta, a real poor Serie A team. Well, he is winning almost every match, just take a look at his screenshot.

Atalanta is a small Serie A team ( just promoted from serie B !! ) so it is not Manchester Utd indeed.

Within the bug forum there is already a thread about this show stopper bug.

Thx

IRL if Atlanta didn't have six points deduced they'd currently be third in Serie A.

[heathxxx]

If Réunion as a nation was not recognised and omitted from FM completely, it would make my lower league saves so much more difficult.

Sure, I could try to refrain from signing players from there, but it's like telling me not to eat a giant chocolate bar, when it's sat there in front of me.

Obviously I'm not a LLaMa like Kriss, who demonstrates excellent restraint.

[Motherlover]

If Réunion as a nation was not recognised and omitted from FM completely, it would make my lower league saves so much more difficult.

Sure, I could try to refrain from signing players from there, but it's like telling me not to eat a giant chocolate bar, when it's sat there in front of me.

Obviously I'm not a LLaMa like Kriss.

Haha yes

Fontaine and Farro were beasts for my treble-winning Aberystwyth side...

[Kriss]

Haha yes

Fontaine and Farro were beasts for my treble-winning Aberystwyth side...

Shame on you:mad:

[Motherlover]

Shame on you:mad:

Good thing i'm not truly LLaMa. I think I broke at least two rules in my last post...

[Ackter]

Now people might say: Well duh, you could just not use Player Search, no one is forcing you too stoopid. But you know what? Not everyone operates like that. For me that's like telling me if I don't like medpacks in a shooter then I should simply refrain from picking them up. It's missing the point.

Nope, they're not - you're missing the point. You play the game in whichever way makes you enjoy it. Ticking an option to disable the player search is no different from not using it, with the exception that the needless addition of code could have far-reaching consequences.

I don't use weapons or medisprays in Resident Evil games because using only the knife and herbs is more fun.

[KUBI]

It's easy to make the game more challenging if you really want.

Restrict yourself in buying foreign players

Promote youth players and try to develop them to first team regulars

Try to have at least 2 U20 players in your starting squad

Try to be below the wage budget all the time

Make your own goals.

[The Welsh Lad]

Thats what happens when Liverpools shoddy defending comes up against you teams potent attack.

[Loversleaper]

It's easy to make the game more challenging if you really want.

Restrict yourself in buying foreign players

Promote youth players and try to develop them to first team regulars

Try to have at least 2 U20 players in your starting squad

Try to be below the wage budget all the time

Make your own goals.

Could even make it harder:

Sign/use players that don't have more than 5 in pace/acceleration

Play blindfolded

Use players out of position

Be angry when doing all team talks

Fine players all the time

Just to name a few...

[KUBI]

Ah, ironic, eh? My suggestions are not that far from reality, as some managers do have such restrictions in real football.

[Loversleaper]

Ah, ironic, eh? My suggestions are not that far from reality, as some managers do have such restrictions in real football.

I know, I am speaking about the current situation with 2012 demo...

[TAV2]

Could even make it harder:

Sign/use players that don't have more than 5 in pace/acceleration

Play blindfolded

Use players out of position

Be angry when doing all team talks

Fine players all the time

Just to name a few...

Best post iv read in a long time!!! Haha

[Marc Vaughan]

Thanks Marc for answering on Sunday, also because you are taking care about Mac products in these days.

Told that, I really do not follow you when you state that the situation can be easily replicated.....how can you easily replicate a situation where a team managed by human can win 20-30 matches straight just pressing " continue " botton ?

The only way to replicate 20-30 straight HUMAN player wins is the presence of a bug, IMHO.

Thx

I wasn't talking about 20-30 straight wins pressing the continue button - I was indicating the 10-0 result which people were getting excited about, with regards to human wins or difficulty ... as I indicated I'm not active on the FM games development (or QA) personally and my only real experience is hearsay from others and my own game (within which I WISH I was winning so easily, Eastbourne have just achieved promotion for me at the second attempt having imploded neatly during the first season*).

Again though - if you feel there is an issue please post examples in the bug forum indicating the team used and please keep the save games/pkms to hand for when QA come calling ... its always our aim to make the games as realistic and enjoyable as possible and we appreciate anything you can do to assist us with this side of things.

*Totally my own fault as well - I can never resist doing wholesale squad changes when I first take over a team, my players must have felt like they were playing musical chairs at times the amount of players who came in and out ... I make Barry Fry look sentimental

[Marc Vaughan]

Glad to see you didn't beat Brighton - out of pure selfish interest where are they in the league for your game?

[Marc Vaughan]

Just completed a half a season game with Atlanta, media prediction 20th - no signings what so ever:

If my team didn't have 6 points deducted I would be serious titel contenders. Not bad, or...

IRL if Atlanta didn't have six points deduced they'd currently be third in Serie A at the moment btw (Played 7 - Won 5, Drawn 1, Lost 1) ...

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables/_/league/ita.1/italian-serie-a?cc=5901

(so it might be that there is an issue with seasonal expectations for them more than the ratings of their players in this version)

[Huney Munster]

Try playing AFC Wimbledon and use the 'new feature' drop current sponsor and try to do what the old Crazy Gang did. I think one of the best challeges in England this year will be Plymouth with their huge debt problems. In FM11 I was sort of disapointed that some Turkish Tycoon took over my Dover Ath team I got from BSS to League 1. Now Im in Prem and he pumps £50mil a season into the club so I dont get into debt. Ive won the Euro Champs after 13 seasons. I always wonder how well I would have done on such a low income without a benefactor. Even when FM12 full comes out I think I will still continue using FM11 occationaly to see if we can break even without the sugar daddies money.

While thinking of this I hope teams that come up through the leagues now get extra new sponsors(instead of one) to help supplement their finances. Or was it just my rich chairman thinking he dont need extra funds as he has such a fat wallet?

[Zico10]

I'm finding it very easy to start with, generally in previous versions, you could sail through friendlies but first league matches were real hard to get a win, but this 2012 is a bit easier imo. I'm West Brom, beat Arsenal 3-2 at home and Chelsea 3-0 away, confortably playing 75 mnts with 10 men. Ok, my tactic helped me but it shouldn't been this easy.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

[SeanNUFC]

Yet more evidence. Something needs to be done i think we can all agree.(well, most)

[Motherlover]

I thought I was getting off-topic so I moved the post that was here to this thread:

Do you want to be able to more easily customise your FM experiance? Opinions wanted

[Falahk]

Play half a season with Swansea and let us know what happens. Isn't that the right way to prove the game is too easy?

had a glance on the squad, and i think i could do an european place with it, or possibly a title challange with a couple of signings, if the ME remians similar in upcoming patches (much since the ME have not changed much from fm11)

In another thread a guy just reported the same weird behaviour playing as Atalanta, a real poor Serie A team. Well, he is winning almost every match, just take a look at his screenshot.

Atalanta is a small Serie A team ( just promoted from serie B !! ) so it is not Manchester Utd indeed.

Within the bug forum there is already a thread about this show stopper bug.

Thx

Atalanta have had a really good start this year, picking up 3 wins, 1 draw and 1 lose so far, they would have been on a european spot if it wasn't for there involvement in gambling scandal, much like Neil pointed out

[Falahk]

the ME have not changed much since the last version, this pretty much means we all know what we are doing from the very start, rather then having the regular month or so it usaly did take to figure out how to handle the changes

[Sharpy07]

Guys get logging your examples in the bugs link i created as Neil Brock has posted in there saying he needs examples of PKM's and screenshots too, this will hopefully give them enough evidence that something isn't right!!

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/277371-High-Scoring-Games!!

[samdiatmh]

There's always those types of games where the 'away' side gets lucky and say has one shot from one goal, but if you're not coming across this anywhere within the game please let us know. Thanks.

so you're saying that if we go on an unbeaten run, then the game is coded to give an away side 1 shot 1 goal and end your run?

I KNEW IT!!!!!

[themadsheep2001]

so you're saying that if we go on an unbeaten run, then the game is coded to give an away side 1 shot 1 goal and end your run?

I KNEW IT!!!!!

he's not said that at all...

[Bobo]

In another thread a guy just reported the same weird behaviour playing as Atalanta, a real poor Serie A team. Well, he is winning almost every match, just take a look at his screenshot.

Atalanta is a small Serie A team ( just promoted from serie B !! ) so it is not Manchester Utd indeed.

Within the bug forum there is already a thread about this show stopper bug.

Thx

Based on that knowledge you shouldn't even be allowed to buy a football game! Atalanta have a very, very good squad on paper and are showing it in real life too - as others have mentioned, had it not been for their point deduction, they'd be at the top!

Personally I'm happy with the difficulty of the demo. I think it's more realistic than it used to be.

[George9500]

OMG you can't play with Man UTD and claim game is too easy =/

[Sharpy07]

Based on that knowledge you shouldn't even be allowed to buy a football game! Atalanta have a very, very good squad on paper and are showing it in real life too - as others have mentioned, had it not been for their point deduction, they'd be at the top!

Personally I'm happy with the difficulty of the demo. I think it's more realistic than it used to be.

Understand your point, but on another guy's game he beat Liverpool with Man Utd at Anfield 10-0!! Im sorry but that is not realistic. It just seems thats its too easy to do well with any team not just the big one's and not have to put much effort in!

[Kain]

Really don't understand this "You can't claim the game's too easy when you're Man Utd". Is it not possible that perhaps the best players in the game are a bit too good, something you wouldn't notice unless you were managing a top club? Is it not possible that there's some sort of exploit in the match engine, and by buying a top class player, you'll notice it far more easily than if you were a smaller team and didn't have anywhere near the budget to sign a player that can use that exploit?

On a wider scale, managing a top club shouldn't be so easy anyway. If it were that easy, why would top clubs pay so much money for managers like Mourinho when they could get someone from the lower leagues to do it for a fraction of the price? But I suppose that's really a separate issue.

[hirsty1867]

I think what people are trying to say is that when managing someone such as Manchester United, there still should be some form of difficulty involved.

I've found that when taking charge of one of the bigger clubs I could pretty much get through a season using one basic tactic with very little need to adjust things.

This is not how it works IRL, United had a tough time against Norwich recently and it could be argued that if Norwich could have finished their chances off then they'd have come out of Old Trafford with at least a point. Now in the game (Certainly previous versions) if you were managing United in that match, you'd more than likely create bucket loads of chances, dominate possesion and win, not just win, but win pretty easily without really having to make any kind of tactical changes.

Every manager will say "There's no easy games" and whilst they'd most likely win the majority of games if they were in charge of a top side, they'd still have to work for those victories, at times in FM it feels like victories come around just that bit to "easily" when in charge of a top side.

Saying that though, FM is a fantastic game and one that has given me more enjoyment than any other.