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England - Euro 2016 Thread

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I have my doubts Wilshere would have the discipline to play that role against the bigger nations. He likes getting forward too much for him to suddenly switch that off for the full 90 minutes. As all it would take is for him to once go further then the ball, a poor pass/intercepted pass to play him through and next thing you know Cahill/Smalling have say Silva coming towards them unchallenged with all the time to pick the right option which he will. 1-0 and out.

Even with that he can't be relied upon to stay fit for a whole tournament without getting any sort of injury. Doubt he'll even be fit for the France/Spain games which are the first key ones to try someone out there in a big game which should be Shelvey in one and another in the other.

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Eric Dier.

Could be a shout - he's looked brilliant anchoring Spurs' midfield this season.

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I don't think anyone has laughed about him being called up this season?

Last season i didn't think he deserved it but this season he definitely does.

I still think he's a ***** though.

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Carragher's comment on MNF - "But England still play him on the left wing" :D:D :applause:

I'm happy that people are starting to realise that actually, he's quite a good striker.

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He's a top striker, we've seen him and Charlie Austin scoring goals at the top level. It's not magic but clubs look around the globe for midtable strikers from other leagues and usually doesn't quite work out. Heaven knows how many other strikers there are in the leagues below the Premier League that can cut it perfectly well in the top flight that never get a chance. Wilson at Bournemouth even, was doing fine. Harry Kane got a bit of this doing well but having been on loan at lower clubs and not done great

I think we have this snobbishness in England about players like that cause they came through the lower leagues. We want these strikers and players coming from top academies as fully formed, finished product, players

It's perfectly logical for players to develop at different ages, to mature at different times in their lives or maybe even concentrate on their game a bit more as they rise up the leagues and improve that way. I think in the UK we hold onto this non-league or lower league thing and players 'getting good' later it their careers and consider it meaning he's rubbish rather than use our eyes to see what a good player they are

I just think of players like Vardy and think here's possibly someone that could have had more work done with him when he was younger and he could have made it to this stage of his career even earlier and we missed out

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Do we? Did anyone care where Ian Wright or Stuart Pearce came from?

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That was some time back

We're into this new era now, even more money being spent, money, money, money

What other explanation is there for seeming lack of praise for such players. There was sneering when Paul Lambert got himself into the squad on form too.

Fans don't want teams picked on reputation but LOL when an unfancied player gets called up on form too

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Who has laughed/moaned about it since then?

Admittedly I was one of the people complaining about it because, at the time, I didn't think he deserved it. Right now, he rightly deserves it and he is probably playing the best football of his career.

I was moaning when he was called up in May because I didn't see the logic in picking a 28 year old striker who had avergae stats for the season because I couldn't see him improving. This season he has clearly proved a lot of people wrong.

I am happy to eat a massive slice of humble pie.

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And this, boys and girls, is why we don't jump to conclusions about a player, judging him on some numbers on his Wikipedia page, without actually watching him play :)

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Vardy is just this year's Kane.

Going to go on a mammoth 6 month goal drought soon enough.

Vardy, Ings and Austin were pretty much in the same boat last year. Funny how Vardy, who was the least fancied out of 3 has gone on to develop and improve the most. I like Ings though, think he's got a directness and work rate about him that'd make him a good understudy to the amazing Welbeck. Dead now obviously.

Austin? Haven't seen much of him this year, will probably just fall off the planet like that big guy who plays for Sunderland (what's his name again?).

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Danny Ings' injury is so tragic, he would have been great under Klopp this season

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It's not that Vardy has necessarily had a improvement so much though and he definitely did deserve his place last season considering the injuries. As I said at the time, he's not necessarily a player you judge on the number of goals he scores, they're just a bonus.

The difference is more that this season he's playing a different role.

Under Pearson he played as the support striker creating space for Ulloa, who was played as the main striker, whereas under Ranieri he's being played as the focal point of the attack. So he's doing much less to stretch defences and create space and much more to getting into goakscoring positions for himself.

Last season he was one of the top assisters in the division and contributed to many more goals through creation of space and pressing the holy heck out of opposition defences whereas this season he's the top scorer. He's just being played in a different role and we're just seeing the effect of this.

He may well go on a goal drought but it won't stop the other really important attributes he brings to the team from being there.

I'm not sure how he compares to Wellbeck. Wellbeck is obviously more technically gifted, but Vardy is so insanely direct and aggressive and hard working and quick that he's difficult to defend against.

But playing him on the wing against teams where England are going to have 80% possession is utterly pointless. You play him up front when you're not going to have much of the ball, that 0-0 draw against Italy in the last Euros is exactly the kind of game Vardy excels at, not on the wing against San Marino. Honestly though, you may as well stick Marc Albrighton or Nathan Dyer on the wing than Vardy, he is never in a million years a winger, especially when playing possession based football.

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Haven't seen much of him this year, will probably just fall off the planet like that big guy who plays for Sunderland (what's his name again?).

Connor Wickham? He's at Palace.

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Squad for friendlies VS Spain and France:

Goalkeepers: Jack Butland (Stoke City), Joe Hart (Manchester City), Tom Heaton (Burnley)

Defenders: Ryan Bertrand (Southampton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool), Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Chris Smalling (Manchester United), John Stones (Everton), Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur)

Midfielders: Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Ross Barkley (Everton), Michael Carrick (Manchester United), Fabian Delph (Manchester City), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), James Milner (Liverpool), Jonjo Shelvey (Swansea City), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City)

Forwards: Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Jamie Vardy (Leicester City)

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Butland

Clyne - Smalling - Stones - Bertrand

Lallana - Dier - Barkley

Rooney - Kane - Vardy

What I'd go with. Literally just naming Rooney for the fact he's captain and won't get dropped so there's no point suggesting he should be no matter how badly he plays. But he just shouldn't be in the middle of the attack with Kane starting to hit form and Vardy smack in the middle of his. I'd start Dier as the holding midfielder to see how he does because all we've really got as a defensive midfielder so far is either an ageing Michael Carrick or Phil ****ing Jones, so we need to see how Dier would cope as a potential successor for the position.

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Nice to see Townsend finally shown the door. Hope that's the end of that little escapade. Expect him to be terrifying spectators in row y in the championship by the end of the season.

The squad's ok, looking at it is entirely uninspiring though.

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Butland

Clyne - Smalling - Stones - Bertrand

Lallana - Dier - Barkley

Rooney - Kane - Vardy

You'd play 2 AM's AND 3 strikers? Might be a bit too attack-minded considering how lightweight Lallana is as well.

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Does Rooney really count as a striker nowadays though? He's more just... there. Could drop Lallana for Milner.

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Butland

Clyne - Smalling - Stones - Bertrand

Lallana - Dier - Barkley

Rooney - Kane - Vardy

Swap out Lallana for Milner and I can't see Hodgson not playing Sterling so either Kane/Vardy out for him.

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Please can we not play Vardy on the wing this time? There's literally no point in doing so, whatsoever.

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Sterling at 20 years old is by far the best player in the squad. Quite scary really, for him.

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I know his form's improved a bit recently but whenever I've watched Sterling play he's been diabolical. Perhaps I should just look away whenever he has the ball.

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You wonder what Marc Albrighton and Danny Drinkwater have to do to get a call up when Fabien Delph and previously Andros Townsend consistently get called up ahead of them. When they have been superb for a team which only lost to Chelsea and Arsenal since the back end of February - during which time Albrighton is comfortably the top English assister.

People always say that players need to be playing to get an English call-up but that's not true - you just need to get bought by a "big" club so they can fulfil their English quota and then sit in their bench collecting the wages.

We were criticised so much under SGE and Capello for picking players because of their "celebrity" and their club rather than their performances and I really don't see how that's changed under Hodgson.

There's my incredibly biased rant over. :p

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Drinkwater :lol:

What's funny? Don't see what Delph or Ali have done to be picked ahead of him other than his reputation and the club he plays for which kinda goes back to the point.

And how much have you actually seen him play?

Delph - played really well in a relegation battling side last season, then joined ManCity to sit on their bench.

Ali - played really well in League One before moving to Spurs where he has played really well so far this season.

Drinkwater - best player in the Championship 2 seasons ago (in a side with one of the highest points totals in the history of the English 2nd tier), struggled with injuries last season and now has played really well so far this season in a side that has so far got more points and goals than Spurs.

Don't see why Delph and Ali being in the side no one mentions, yet Drinkwater gets laughed at for any other reason than the club he plays for - there's nothing on his past performances/CV to suggest he is any less deserving at this moment in time other than the size of his current club.

Not saying they should walk in to the squad, just it can be frustrating that when we have English players who are really in-form and have put in great performances (someone like Albrighton consistently for 8 or 9 months now) in a side who've won as many points as anyone going back to the back end of February and still get consistently overlooked for players who play for bigger teams, some players who don't even play every week - it doesn't really send out a good message that if your performances are good enough you'll get picked, when the truth seems to be closer to - move to a bigger club and sit on their bench and you're more likely to be picked.

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Poor squad but shows the lack of depth when we get a number of injuries.

Would like to see this starting XI.

Hart: Clyne, Stones, Smalling, Bertrand: Milner, Carrick, Barkley: Sterling, Rooney, Vardy.

A 4-3-3 with Carrick the deeper CM and Vardy wide when in a defensive shape, but when it's attacking for him to move upfront and Sterling to drift inside so it becomes a 4-3-1-2. Even has the flexibility to turn into a 4-2-3-1 with Vardy up top, Rooney behind and Milner/Sterling wider players with Barkley alongside Carrick.

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Butland

Clyne - Smalling - Stones - Bertrand

Lallana - Dier - Barkley

Rooney - Kane - Vardy

giphy.gif

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Midfield looks a bit light

I don't mind Dier getting a look in there. Didn't he not want to be picked for U21s before cause he wasn't ready or something? Seize the day, young man, any chance you get. Can't remember the details but remember stroking my chin and saying Hmmmmm suspiciously at the time

I thought Alli was getting bumped to U21s but apparently not

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I love it when fans of teams which are massively over-performing get annoyed about people being dismissive over their players being near the England squad. The reason why they don't pick on form or pick the players from big teams is this cohesion and generally the players at big teams are better just because they're not playing doesn't mean they aren't better. Or in the case of young players like an Ali there is a belief that they will become a regular in the long term

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I love it when fans of teams which are massively over-performing get annoyed about people being dismissive over their players being near the England squad. The reason why they don't pick on form or pick the players from big teams is this cohesion and generally the players at big teams are better just because they're not playing doesn't mean they aren't better. Or in the case of young players like an Ali there is a belief that they will become a regular in the long term

I'm not getting annoyed that proven players for big clubs who aren't in as good form don't deserve to be there, else I'd question why players like Milner who has by all accounts had a poor season are in there.

But come on, Fabien Delph's remit isn't that he's there because he's proven better, he played well for a Villa side which scraped survival and has gone to ManCity and has not played and players like Ali getting there way ahead of his time has long been discussed as a long standing problem for England where other countries like Spain and Germany actually use their U21's properly - besides, there are other players in the U21's who've far more experience than him and who could easily have more long standing careers (players like Ward-Prowse surely have shown more promise than Ali)? and then players like Andros Townsend was picked for about a year based on basically a handful of good performances for Spurs before becoming a bench warmer for a good while and still continued to get picked for England.

They're friendlies, you use them to experiment, the concept of team cohesion at international level is a cop out - you don't keep the same team together and train every day together like you do with club side's, unless you're lucky to get a squad who grow up together and have the spine at the same club side in the way Spain or Germany's did so know each other's games, players aren't going to learn that in the odd friendly and 5 or 6 day training sessions aren't going to then suddenly click tactically as a side - it's why so many great club managers fail at international level, because you just can't build a side the way you can at club level. It is just snobbery of the club people laughing at someone like Drinkwater being called up while players like Delph do.

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Delph hasnt been just a squad member recently though, he has been in the starting XI to play a specific role and to be fair he's done alright. I can see your point but you're picking on the wrong player

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I'm not getting annoyed that proven players for big clubs who aren't in as good form don't deserve to be there, else I'd question why players like Milner who has by all accounts had a poor season are in there.

But come on, Fabien Delph's remit isn't that he's there because he's proven better, he played well for a Villa side which scraped survival and has gone to ManCity and has not played and players like Ali getting there way ahead of his time has long been discussed as a long standing problem for England where other countries like Spain and Germany actually use their U21's properly - besides, there are other players in the U21's who've far more experience than him and who could easily have more long standing careers (players like Ward-Prowse surely have shown more promise than Ali)? and then players like Andros Townsend was picked for about a year based on basically a handful of good performances for Spurs before becoming a bench warmer for a good while and still continued to get picked for England.

They're friendlies, you use them to experiment, the concept of team cohesion at international level is a cop out - you don't keep the same team together and train every day together like you do with club side's, unless you're lucky to get a squad who grow up together and have the spine at the same club side in the way Spain or Germany's did so know each other's games, players aren't going to learn that in the odd friendly and 5 or 6 day training sessions aren't going to then suddenly click tactically as a side - it's why so many great club managers fail at international level, because you just can't build a side the way you can at club level. It is just snobbery of the club people laughing at someone like Drinkwater being called up while players like Delph do.

Delph has been injured mostly. I am surprised he is in there but can only assume it is because they have liked what they have seen in the past. Which there is nothing wrong with. If he fits their tactical needs then don't really see the issue there. How Villa have performed is irrelevant it is about what Delph can do.

The reason why Germany and not so much Spain now can use their under 21s for players like Ali is that they have lots of talent and we don't have that luxury. An example of how this is quite normal is Per Mertesacker made his debut for Germany aged 20 barely played for their under 21s. Barely played for Hannover. Podolski similar story. Puyol didn't play much for Barcelona before his debut for Spain. As this shows the difference isn't that they choose not to use their under 21s this way is that they have the luxury to be able to do so.

Ali has a few advantages over say JWP 1) he is a better fit for England 2) he is playing more in the PL 3) he is playing better than JWP has consistently done at this level. Andros Townsend doesn't get picked for his club performances he gets picked because he does well for England.

How is team cohesion a cop out? You need cohesion to do well in football whatever the level so that people can learn and understand each others movements and so that they can used to the structure. It is not just one friendly and 5 or 6 training sessions it is the best part of two years worth of that for most of them. That is why you see minimal change in the squad over time and rightly so. That little time they have together is precious.

This happens all the time people look at players playing well for teams playing well and think they should be in the England squad but it isn't about that. England squad selection should be based on the following issues: quality and tactical fit and how they have done previously for England. Form isn't that important a player who is playing exceptionally well like a Vardy or a Kane will push in and rightly so but it really has to be exceptional form. A classic example of this form issue is Welbeck who towards the end of his time at Man U really struggled to do much or even play much but whenever he played for England he was one of our best players.

My overall point here is that most people don't really understand what international squad selection is about.

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Picking out Delph for your argument is just bizarre because he's in the squad for the exact same reason as you want your Leicester players in for. To try and make out like he's been sat on our bench doing nothing all season is stupid, he's been injured most of the season and has actually played for us on the odd occasion he's been fit

HE got his latest injury actually playing for England

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Alli's already miles better than Ward-Prowse.

Well you've done it now, haven't you...? :(

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Alli's already miles better than Ward-Prowse.

Is he? Based on watching a mere 10 Premier League games for Tottenham? Where as Ward-Prowse has played in 104 games for Southampton and is vastly more experienced playing at a high level in a good side.

I'd guess England's logic is for Ward-Prowse to captain England under 21s throughout the current tournament, rather than having him miss under 21 games for brief senior cameos.

Well you've done it now, haven't you...? :(

:brock:

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