This game is too difficult. I can't win games and it's starting to **** me off.

[Viazon16]

I have been playing FM for years. I am good at this game. Sure, I have always lost games before but this is getting beyond ridiculous now.

I am playing as Arsenal. I can understand losing to the other big clubs but I am not performing against teams who are far inferior to me. There seems to be nothing I can do to help it. I have just lost for games in a row against teams I should have beaten. This is not normal. No matter what I do with my tactics or my formations, I still can't win.

Sure, I get the odd win every now and then, but even then, my team does not play well and they are all close calls and very nervous wins. Apart from these odd wins, my team plays very badly. They seem to be completely unable to tackle anyone. Whenever a player runs at a defender with the ball, they always seem to get past them or get a shot on goal. They seem completely incapable of completely a pass. Even players who should be accomplished passers such as Ozil end up giving the ball away or kicking it straight to an opponent. On the moments where I do beat a defender and get a shot on goal, they only seem to be able to strike the ball directly at the goal keeper. It's as if the ball is made of metal and the keeper has magnets in his gloves.

No matter what tactics I used, a team like Arsenal should be playing better against lower teams. But I get outplayed and completely over run in midfield by much lesser opponents. This shouldn't be happening.

I can only conclude that they have made FM14 much harder and perhaps have made the tactics far too complicated and intricate. I should be steam rolling over some of these teams.

Anyone else having a similar problem?

[Vetinari]

You've hit the nail on the head, it's your tactics. Head over to the tactics forum and read some of the guides there.

[tieio]

LOTS of people are having your problem, so just know that. It is tactics and the lack of explanation the games gives on what things actually do. The only choice is hours of reading in the tactics forum or on the many other websites that offer insight. Much of the problem is the importance of tactics familiarity being ridiculously high, morale meaning more than ever and the complete lack of clear guide on what each setting in the tactics actually does which means it is very easy to mess up your tactics completely. Get ready to do some legwork if you wish to improve this. It is well worth it when you do get it!

[Vetinari]

The other thing to note is that once you have got a good understanding of it all, you have to be constantly looking in matches for what goes wrong and when. Reactive changes are very important now, and sometimes just watching the highlights isn't enough. That doesn't mean you have to watch the whole 90 minutes, but sometimes it can be useful to look at a completely random 2 minute bit of the game and see what kind of shape your players take etc.

[wwfan]

There are three stickied threads in the tactics forum that can be seen as the bones, meat and gravy for playing FM.

Bones: How To Play FM14

Meat: Pairs and Combinations

Gravy: Creating a Tactic

If you start by reading them, you won't go far wrong.

[Viazon16]

Thanks for the help. I'll check out the tactics forum.

[Svenc]

but sometimes it can be useful to look at a completely random 2 minute bit of the game and see what kind of shape your players take etc.

That's just wrong. True, individual sequences will never exactly look the same. However, unless you switch roles and duties which largely determine attacking team shape this will never once turn into something else completely however. In fact the way FM sets up this repeats ad nauseum. That is what I've argued for here too, http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/381654-Constantly-losing?p=9354604&viewfull=1#post9354604 it is easy to massively overcomplicate this. A defending full back will always stay a defending full back, a defending central midfielder will stay a defending midfielder in any strategy in any given situation, that is how they position and thus the team shapes up. There is a misconception that going fluid would alter this, however (luckily) it doesn't. However, occasionally this can be influenced by substitutions, because some players can have individual traits, (check their profile) that is PPMs (Player prefered moves) that may influence their movement.

For instance, Wilshere is a Player that always has the tendency to get forward and leave his basic position you have assigned him to. Thus, giving him the role of a deep lying playmaker he may still push up regardless. The same goes for City's left back Kolarov: Even if you assign him the role of a defending full back, he has that tendency to always bomb Forward.

[Vetinari]

Ok perhaps less on the shape side of things, but what I'm saying is that sometimes there are things your players do you regularly that you can completely miss, even with highlights on extended. Case in point, I noticed a couple of times my fullbacks were just hoofing the ball upfield and due to the shape of my team nobody was there to receive it. Because I only saw this once every two or three matches I assumed it wasn't happening often and was no big deal, even though I lost possession and ended up conceding goals somewhere down the line because of it. Once I watched random little segments, I realised my fullbacks were doing this all the time, and it was leading to a greater number of dangerous passages of plays than those shown by the highlights. So I was able to make changes to tackle this issue.

[lomekian]

Its all about tailoring the tactics to the specific strengths and weaknesses of your players (or buying players to suit your tactics). My Arsenal tactic shouldn't really work on paper at first glance, but is incredibly effective as it not only semi-replicates what the team is doing in real life, but I tweak individual instructions to complement players PPMs. So with Arsenal, we don't really have a normal left winger, and Podolski isn't really first choice, so I play cazorla as a left sided AMC, and ask him via personal instructions to pushwider and cover back, whilst encouraging the left wing back to push on to provide width. On the opposite flank, I get walcott (who is half striker/half wide man) to play a more advanced role, and get forward more, trying to use his pace onto balls inside the full-back, and it works pretty well (though not quite as good as in real life). This is helped by Giroud dropping off and holding it up and Ozil roaming and being the team's creative focus. Whereas if I played a standard 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with wingers or inside forwards, it doesn't work as well as none of the players are traditional wingers or inside forwards. Cazorla lacks the pace, Podolski is a little too one footed and Walcott close dribbling and crossing/passing skills do not provide much consistency.

[Thunder88]

I feel your pain mate,i've been playing FM/CM for over 20 years or so and this is the only one i can't get my head around..

I was Atletico Madrid and played 7 games into my season where i lost 4 and won 3,the final straw came when i played Valladolid who were bottom after losing their first 6 games...but of course against me they were unstoppable beating me 3-1 and having 60% possession,i couldn't get anywhere near them...i've lost count of how many times i've restarted..

I've read countless tactics threads but i don't understand anything,whenever i try it in my game my players look confused and just kick the ball long and charge forward old Wimbledon 80's style.

[tieio]

I feel your pain mate,i've been playing FM/CM for over 20 years or so and this is the only one i can't get my head around..

I was Atletico Madrid and played 7 games into my season where i lost 4 and won 3,the final straw came when i played Valladolid who were bottom after losing their first 6 games...but of course against me they were unstoppable beating me 3-1 and having 60% possession,i couldn't get anywhere near them...i've lost count of how many times i've restarted..

I've read countless tactics threads but i don't understand anything,whenever i try it in my game my players look confused and just kick the ball long and charge forward old Wimbledon 80's style.

What breaks my heart the most is that posts like this are largely ignored and don't seem to matter. In fact, threads like this seem to be ignored all too often, though there are more of them this season than there have ever been!

[Lawlore]

The big problem is that, in-game, communicating what you want your players to do is not straightforward, and you're not getting enough straightforward feedback in-game as to tactical strengths and weaknesses.

The minute you start talking about roles and duties, you're talking about a complex but necessary game feature, rather than something which exists in the real world. This takes the game into an area where it is easy for the manager to put things together that just don't work. In the past, that hasn't been punished quite so much- with the shift of emphasis in FM14 to tactics, now it is, and if you don't understand fully how to communicate what you want your players to do through those roles and duties, you're gonna struggle.

And the lack of feedback doesn't help- even if you aren't spotting where there's an issue in your tactics, someone on your coaching staff, preferably your assistant manager, should. All it needs is "Mate, we're leaving a big gap there and they keep running into it. Maybe you should think about how you're using player X". It doesn't need to be spoon-feeding or hand-holding, but at the same time, that's what a second pair of eyes is for- to assist, and to offer opinion.

[Utah_Jazz]

I just feel that the communication system with our players is poor for a game this advanced. The current system is so repetitive and boring and just feels automated most the time. Talk to player etc.

I want the game to have players being upset at why they were subbed, why they were benched among heaps of other real life examples. SI really has to improve this side of the game. The media also feels very repetitive and boring and is the same in each country you visit.

Its a lot of work but I would expect SI to improve the media and player communication system in FM15 and beyond. ATM, its just very unrealistic and boring and so unlike real life

[ltdamn]

What breaks my heart the most is that posts like this are largely ignored and don't seem to matter. In fact, threads like this seem to be ignored all too often, though there are more of them this season than there have ever been!

+1. You can read the tactics forum and fiddle with your players mentality, shape and shouts at much as you like, nothing but the next patch is going to change the heavy first touch, poor defensive marking, excessive corner goals and goalkeeping errors that people are actually experiencing in game right now. It is what it is, and SI are fixing it (to their credit), and I will wait patiently for it - but that doesn't change the reality of the situtation.

Whether people are patient enough to wait or will just give up entirely is a separate issue, but after two consecutive releases with radically under-tuned ME's upon first issue, it would be nice for FM15 to not change under the hood too much so we can maybe, just maybe, enjoy the game properly for 12 months before the next release instead of 7.

[Svenc]

The minute you start talking about roles and duties, you're talking about a complex but necessary game feature, rather than something which exists in the real world.

If you perceive those as such, how did you rate the game prior? For ten years FM had had a tactics system that was far more detached from football tactics than anything in the new system. It also bombarded you with tons of options to micro tweak each individual player in (at worst) highly illogical and incoherent ways resulting in far more disjointed play than is probably even possible now. Whilst it is true that the new system also has its share of documentation problems and quite abstract options (fluidities in particular), one of the previously most important instructions was one called "mentality" you could adjust in 20 notches and which had zero equivalent in real football at all. It was purely an SI invention and you had people depending on their flawed interpretation use it as purely a positional tool (which it wasn't) and much more. With the roles you've something that is common language in football punditry, and you've got something to go by. If it isn't popular punditry, then what else? The game's being targeted at football fans first and foremost. You've got to have something.

The game's documentation out of the box has always been lacking, the least that it should ship with should be a straight forward guide covering the basic's such as wwfan's. Print that on a small leaflet, it's just one piece of paper, put it into the box (or as a pdf in the digital copies), done. However I find it curious that someone could think the game has now become more tactical that the options are much easier to understand than ever before (without arguing their implications are all clear form the get go, mind). Is that the reason, perhaps? If finally there is some more widespread understanding, however basic, what it is you're encouraging, that people actually start to wonder? The AI certainly isn't on FM 2008ish levels where the most fearful it did was bombing you with four forwards come the end of a game or wasting time like silly when trying to keep you out (yes, it was dumb and SI smiled at people when they claimed to be "experts" when FM Live, the MMO launched, for a reason). But the AI's not been quite as basic ever since at least FM 2010. If previously you didn't understand what you were doing, you were on a disadvantage all the same, at least in tactics, there's more ways to excel, but more on that soon. And I've at least once seen it making a school boy error by channeling all play through the middle of the pitch into the feet of the human player's massive centre of the park that had it producing 0(!) shots a match in FM 2014, which is a first.

About feedback, from my brief experience with the demo, I quite liked the Prozone stuff they did in Championship Manager 2010. The thing needs to be intelligent enough to be able to spot patterns, if such actually existed in the play. It is the patterns you're after, not the individual mistakes (partly part of the ME, partly also bugs no doubt). People forget that matches aren't merely won by tactics at all, and a loss doesn't mean you had just screwed up tactically whereas a win doesn't equal you've just proven you tactical genius and need to panic-adjust had that win not cometh. As in real football, the better side is always more likely to win a match. Managing Hull, you're likely to get your royal spanking away at Stamford Bridge, and going with Liverpool, you'll likely not nick any silverware right in the first season, happens. Better players are going to open spaces all by themselves, their individual runs, their superior movement on and off the ball, their decision making, their finishing, their ball retention, their everything. Barely a tactics will draw any of that completely moot, I've deliberately tried (and seen people succeeding on FM 2014 with by all accounts quite imbalanced tactics). The thing is that bad tactics make you depend more on those individual actions from your players to get your result. But if you have those players, they'll more often do something both on and off the ball. Maybe you won't have them in your first seasons. But more often than not you can get them if you persist (and don't get the sack). Takes longer time with a small club, naturally.

There is feedback for that, as superior players show in your league's / competition's statistics as such. I'm surplussed, as more often than not, simply if you follow wwfan's guide on roles and duties to the letter (without understanding why it is advisable to employ such duties), a squad's quality should roughly materialize in the league standings if users don't screw up elsewhere. For the life of me I also can't understand why people don't either keep it simple with tactics or let the assistant let it handle those if the most they are interested in is the squad management either. Those assistants have been in the game for so long, and there has never been any reason to massively distrust them that much. Sign up at any club you like and just go on holiday, you'll see.

Whilst I fully sympathize with the lack of documentation, the opaqueness still remaining for some instructions and the feedback which is always going to be a tough balancing job somewhere in between spoon feeding and luring you in: Everyone who claims you'd need a coaching badge to play is having a laugh. And I mean that.

[tieio]

You are correct about the lack of documentation but another thing we could depend on at least a little was forums such as these and others where you could get brushed up and find advice, now you will get 20 different opinions from 20 different people on what each thing does. There is little to no certainty even from your so called experts as to what many things even do in this game. There is a debate on almost every thread where two people have a differing opinion on a setting.

[GabrieleGallagher]

Try to keep it simple at beginning, then build up your strategy with one or two changes per match. Don't be always willing to control or dominate a match, sometimes it's not a shame if you sit deeper and play more direct.

I was struggling the same as you, then I improved more and more after reading guides and tips. Team talks are also very useful and they can easy mess up morale, so take care of them.

Enjoy

[wwfan]

You are correct about the lack of documentation but another thing we could depend on at least a little was forums such as these and others where you could get brushed up and find advice, now you will get 20 different opinions from 20 different people on what each thing does. There is little to no certainty even from your so called experts as to what many things even do in this game. There is a debate on almost every thread where two people have a differing opinion on a setting.

As with many things in life, there are those you should listen to and those you shouldn't.

[Rob4590]

I feel your pain mate,i've been playing FM/CM for over 20 years or so and this is the only one i can't get my head around..

I was Atletico Madrid and played 7 games into my season where i lost 4 and won 3,the final straw came when i played Valladolid who were bottom after losing their first 6 games...but of course against me they were unstoppable beating me 3-1 and having 60% possession,i couldn't get anywhere near them...i've lost count of how many times i've restarted..

I've read countless tactics threads but i don't understand anything,whenever i try it in my game my players look confused and just kick the ball long and charge forward old Wimbledon 80's style.

What breaks my heart the most is that posts like this are largely ignored and don't seem to matter. In fact, threads like this seem to be ignored all too often, though there are more of them this season than there have ever been!

If people ask for help in the CORRECT forum (ie TTF) and then actually take notice of the help given (by the right people), then things WILL improve for them. The problem is that so many people either will not admit that it IS their tactics that are wrong (because the stats say they are having more possession / shots etc) or if they do ask for help, they don't apply what they are told correctly (or only do so for a couple of games before dismissing it as not working)

I think it is agreed by just about everyone that the documentation re tactics is severely lacking, but if people really do want to be helped then that help is available.

[Äktsjon Männ]

As with many things in life, there are those you should listen to and those you shouldn't.

How does one tell who's who? If you're not a regular on here you wouldn't know who the 'reliable experts' are. Besides, SI themselves are so stubbornly determined not to give the tiniest bit of insight into the technical side of things that even if you do refer to one of the mods you're still dealing with a mixture of real life context and FM logic. Which are not the same thing.

Too many people are struggling with this game. That tells me that either SI think these people should not be their target audience or that some changes are needed with the game which would mean that those struggling get assistance from the game itself. Having to refer to a forum or an external guide in order to understand a game (which is about football ffs, not nuclear physics or third world economy) is just wrong on so many levels.

[wwfan]

How does one tell who's who?

We sticky and reference quality advice.

[Svenc]

Having to refer to a forum or an external guide in order to understand a game (which is about football ffs, not nuclear physics or third world economy) is just wrong on so many levels.

Agreed about that external guide thing. However, football may be a popular sports, that doesn't mean everybody who watches it gets the fundamentals of it. I've played a couple years in my youth at the local club and I watch football, but I'm not at all ashamed to admit that a lot of things I got through FM (both directly and indirectly). But ultimately, that's a problem. Just as people who watch Formula 1 don't necessarily know anything about cars or people who watch American Football don't necessarily know all its complicated rules, football may be a simple game, but there are a lot of myths and misconceptions going around too.

Often you have many people complaining that they'd struggle despite fielding a basic 4-4-2. Surely such shouldn't struggle? No further information. That says a lot.

You can't have all the basics covered. You should however at least have gotten covered what is inside say the 12 step guide. If there is no room for further explanation why such a guidance advices something, remind people that for the time being they should roughly stick to it until they get a decent enough understanding why the advice is given, that's it.

Unfortunately the game hasn't shipped with any manual whatsoever for years. True, there's that online thing. And many people don't bother at all with manuals. But maybe some advice could be then incorporated into the interactive tutorials, which were a great idea (though I'm not convinced all newcomers bother with that either).

[tieio]

How does one tell who's who? If you're not a regular on here you wouldn't know who the 'reliable experts' are. Besides, SI themselves are so stubbornly determined not to give the tiniest bit of insight into the technical side of things that even if you do refer to one of the mods you're still dealing with a mixture of real life context and FM logic. Which are not the same thing.

Too many people are struggling with this game. That tells me that either SI think these people should not be their target audience or that some changes are needed with the game which would mean that those struggling get assistance from the game itself. Having to refer to a forum or an external guide in order to understand a game (which is about football ffs, not nuclear physics or third world economy) is just wrong on so many levels.

So well said. Very true words.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Unfortunately the game hasn't shipped with any manual whatsoever for years. True, there's that online thing. And many people don't bother at all with manuals. But maybe some advice could be then incorporated into the interactive tutorials, which were a great idea (though I'm not convinced all newcomers bother with that either).

Manuals are great and all, but ultimately shouldn't be needed either for anything beyond explaining how to navigate the game. Everything else has to be a natural learning process that does not involve any external reading. Assistant manager and the rest of the backroom staff, the tactical interface and its visual clues, the ME etc, the tools are or at least should be there.

As for a simple 4-4-2 - even the David Moyes's of us armchair managers should be able to find their way into the thoroughly uninspired, bland and outdated coma inducing brand of football on their own. In most cases though it's their failing to comply with the FM logic that gets their team utterly destroyed and torn to pieces, not misconceptions about football. The latter would still be a problem when taking over a runaway champions Man Utd team and trying to make them cross the ball a lot against Stoke whilst wasting talented playmakers on the right wing. But it's the former that means they get the sort of performance levels out of their teams that are unprecedented in reality. Like losing all their games with silly scorelines and not understanding a bit of it.

[SurferJames]

This is not just tactics that are affected your game, many people experience same problems there are many other reasons why you could be failing which are, training methods where

Some of your players are not happy, morale is low and not confident of winning, over complicating the game won't help you so try too stick too simple things you know already.

[aduh]

try this:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-14-tactics/152899-xper-modern-warfare-tweak.html

[Vetinari]

Manuals are great and all, but ultimately shouldn't be needed either for anything beyond explaining how to navigate the game. Everything else has to be a natural learning process that does not involve any external reading.

Don't know if I totally agree with that, but then I did enjoy the 90s and getting a chance to get stuck into one of those great big manuals that used to come with every game There is an expectation nowadays that games should be intuitive and anybody should be able to pick up the game and play it. If a game with FM14's tactical complexity had been released 20 years ago I can guarantee there wouldn't be this kind of problem!

[Äktsjon Männ]

Don't know if I totally agree with that, but then I did enjoy the 90s and getting a chance to get stuck into one of those great big manuals that used to come with every game There is an expectation nowadays that games should be intuitive and anybody should be able to pick up the game and play it.

But they should! It doesn't mean anyone should be able to pick it up and achieve a quadruple at first attempt, but the ultimate level of failure without actively trying for it should not be that far below what Man Utd are displaying this season. Anything more extreme should involve actual sabotage. If someone manages to do much worse than that in FM then it's not about football knowledge. It's only about their ability to play the game and understand it's logic. Ultimately what they are doing is sabotaging themselves because if they just didn't touch anything and let their assistant manage games they would get results that do not fall far from that realistically conceivable baseline. But why is it that the assistant can't offer insight into exactly how they're managing to achieve that base performance level? They can manage the team better than the manager himself can but won't tell you how? I mean in no way should it ever be necessary to read an external manual in order to get the same level of results in FM that your assistant can. That's what the guy is supposed to be there for himself!

[Thunder88]

If people ask for help in the CORRECT forum (ie TTF) and then actually take notice of the help given (by the right people), then things WILL improve for them. The problem is that so many people either will not admit that it IS their tactics that are wrong (because the stats say they are having more possession / shots etc) or if they do ask for help, they don't apply what they are told correctly (or only do so for a couple of games before dismissing it as not working)

I think it is agreed by just about everyone that the documentation re tactics is severely lacking, but if people really do want to be helped then that help is available.

I've already mentioned that i've looked at the tactics forum and even made a few threads on different teams i've tried,i've read all the stickied topics too but although i do understand what is being said i struggle massively to put it across in FM.

I just don't understand the game from a tactical view and i struggle to see what is going wrong even though i'm watching the game in full,if i'm watching football on tv or my local football team on a sunday i see absolutely everything,but in FM i struggle big time to see what is wrong so i'm constantly making the wrong decisions..

As i mentioned above,i was Atletico Madrid who have a very talented squad but i was dominated very comfortably by Valladolid who were rock bottom and most of their morale was very poor...they were passing me to death but every time i had possession my team just gave it back or talented strikers such as Diego Costa and David Villa had super heavy touches which never gave my team any rest to get up the pitch..i just couldn't see what was going wrong which resulted in frustration where i just gave in and threw everybody forward and basically gave Valladolid all the space they wanted to wrap the game up and finish me off.

I've had plenty of success in recent FM/CM games but as i said i just can't grasp what i'm supposed to do in this game...i've gone to a much easier save where i have less pressure to succeed..i've chosen Aston Villa who are expected to fight relegation but now every game i play i'm being dominated so i'm gonna get frustrated again..

If the next update doesn't fix my problems then it's back to FM13 for me..i hate being so frustrated with a game i love so much.

[Rob4590]

So what is your setup with Villa then? (and what was it with Athletico?)

I don't claim to be any kind of expert - but I might be able to help if there is anything glaringly wrong. (and others will be able to do so as well) - but without specifics about your tactic, no-one can help.

By the way - I wasn't having a dig at you personally (as I've seen you on TTF a bit) - was just making the point that most threads like this in GD are simply rants and the OP tends to not actually want help - just to rant!

[Thunder88]

So what is your setup with Villa then? (and what was it with Athletico?)

I don't claim to be any kind of expert - but I might be able to help if there is anything glaringly wrong. (and others will be able to do so as well) - but without specifics about your tactic, no-one can help.

By the way - I wasn't having a dig at you personally (as I've seen you on TTF a bit) - was just making the point that most threads like this in GD are simply rants and the OP tends to not actually want help - just to rant!

I've quit the Atletico game but i'll give you details of how i set up.

i went with a 4-3-3 formation like this..

GK-D

RB-FB-S

LB-WB-A

CD-D

CD-D

DM-Anchor

CM-Box to box

CM-CM-S

RW-AP-A

LW-IF-S

CF-Complete Forward support

i had no team instructions as i am struggling so much i went with trying to change these instructions during games..i didn't want to complicate things.

i had my team on counter and rigid philosophy..

The 2 central defenders and the Anchor man are all solid and were supposed to be the brick wall,then i wanted my box to box player run in behind my CF who was dropping deep,David Villa was my IF and i sometimes changed him to attack but he never once got in the box as he was often isolated..this all resulted in my team just rushing passes and often giving away possession...there was no fluidity to my team even when i changed to fluid and roam from positions and be more expressive,i even slowed down tempo and went shorter passing but often saw my team again make hurried passes like the ball was on fire...it became too frustrating to watch that i gave in....even though i'd just beaten Chelsea away in the champions league.

The Villa one again i've gone with 4-3-3 but i have my RW as a natural winger providing crosses for Benteke with Agbonlahor on the LW coming in on his stronger foot...and i had Benteke as a TM on support and to hold the ball up hoping to result in counter attacks..

If i went on the counter i'd play too deep which meant i'd concede possession and too many chances...if i went standard then i'd leave gaps and still get dominated...i can't find any balance whatsoever.

[lennon67]

Too many people are struggling with this game. That tells me that either SI think these people should not be their target audience or that some changes are needed with the game which would mean that those struggling get assistance from the game itself. Having to refer to a forum or an external guide in order to understand a game (which is about football ffs, not nuclear physics or third world economy) is just wrong on so many levels.

Spot on.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Having to refer to a forum or an external guide in order to understand a game is just wrong on so many levels.

What about the thousands of users who will be having great success with their teams that have never been near this forum in their lives?

[Äktsjon Männ]

What about the thousands of users who will be having great success with their teams that have never been near this forum in their lives?

What about them?

Also, what about those who do struggle but never realise this forum exists? You can twist it around however you like, the point stands.

[lennon67]

If the next update doesn't fix my problems then it's back to FM13 for me..i hate being so frustrated with a game i love so much.

This. I just think FM14 is out of my depth.

[forameuss]

try this:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-14-tactics/152899-xper-modern-warfare-tweak.html

To the OP - please don't follow this. You will learn absolutely nothing if you just use a downloaded tactic, and when it goes wrong (and there's a good chance it might) you won't have any idea how to change things, and you'll feel even more alienated with the game. You'll learn far more visiting the tactics forum, trying to implement your own ideas, and going from there.

[Lawlore]

If you perceive those as such, how did you rate the game prior? (snip) You've got to have something.

Without wanting to derail the thread too far (but to answer a fair question), this is where the "complex but necessary" comes in. I wouldn't argue at all that previous games (FM or otherwise) dealt with tactics in a better way- that wasn't my implication, and my apologies if it seemed that's what I was getting at.

My point was more that "roles" and "duties" are artificial concepts that do not exist in any consistent way in real football. Definitions and nuances of roles will vary from one person to the next- what I think of as a "Target Man", you may see as something slightly different, with a different emphasis and, ultimately, role. Add to that the "duty" side of things, with thin margins between support and attack, and things do get complex.

It is an ambitious thing to try and allow the user near entire customisation of what they're telling their players to do, especially as the more freedom you allow, the more likely a user will find a way to screw it up. And the more you try to allow for complexity, the more you're going to befuddle people who don't have that investment in the tactical side of the game.

I don't know what the answer is- at the moment, creating tactics can seem pretty inaccessible. Previously, that didn't matter so much, but now it does- and I'm speaking as someone who freely admits that before FM14, I was very much an "Auto Assign Roles", "Auto Assign Duties" guy. At the moment, I'm playing with a tactic that employs a Trequartista in an AMC position. Did I know what a Trequartista was before now? No. Do I know now? Not really- I've got the Tooltip description, but if I'm honest, it's there because the guy I've got playing there is best at that role, and it appears to be working OK with the rest of my tactic.

I'm not suggesting that roles and duties are the wrong approach or that the game needs to be dumbed down- far from it. But if tactics are going to be given more importance than they were previously, it needs to somehow be made less obtuse. Off the top of my head, a clickable grid showing typical player positions and movement for a passage of play, in possession or without, would be a start point- it would allow you to see "hold on, why is that dude going that far forward, maybe I need to look at his role".

[Rob4590]

@ Thunder88: Re the Athletico setup - my first question would be - why on earth would you have the AP on the RW playing as the attacking wide® player - he is meant to provide chances for other players - and given that you have the striker dropping deep, the logical thing would be to have the IF on attack so there is someone who can get on the end of the chances provided by the AP (on S). So logically an AP(S) and IF(A) would be the better wide setup. That of course would then mean swapping the DR and DL's duties around too.

I have the feeling your two MCs are a little bit too gung-ho - perhaps making one of them a DLP(S) or AP(S or A) might be better - just will tend to make them 'sit' a little more rather than both the BTB and CM(S) making runs into the opposition area.

Also slightly confused with using counter for Athletico - you are the 3rd best side in Spain - so you should be aiming to dominate the opposition - so Control is probably the best bet.

For the Villa one - I assume you mean the RW is a W(S) - for the same reason as I suggested an AP(S) above, and then Gabby as IF(A). I would have thought Benteke is good enough to play CF rather than restrict him to being a TM?

Mentality - it sounds like you WANT to play counter - but if you feel that is going to make you defend too deep, then simply up the D-Line to higher or even much higher. Similarly - if you play standard, then maybe just drop it deeper. Again in this set up - you are going to need to keep one of the MCs a bit more defensive as well as the DM, while the 'attacking' CM will need to be either BTB or CM(A) to try and give support into the oppposition's box.

Hope this helps as a starting point

[JockStein1967]

Are You Martin Jol?

[Mars_Blackmon]

We already have that though. We can watch the games in full, and we can use the analysis tabs to watch individual moments of play.

I'm not directing this at you, but I think in general that FM is a deep game and people just need to relax a bit and be patient - watch the games and develop the skill of reaction. Study opposition statistics and player attributes, nullify their threats and expose their weaknesses. Actually try to be a manager. Most importantly, start simple. Far too many people design a tactic and assign a bunch of team and player instructions before ever getting into a game, and then they don't even watch the game... and they wonder why it doesn't work for them? I've had success with all manner of teams in FM with barebones tactics that are logical, balanced, and that don't use team and player instructions as a default. It's about in game adjustments. This is a managerial game, and that's what a good manager does. Great managers adapt. They have a vision, but they also have a certain group of players at their disposal. Too many people are trying the square peg-round hole approach.

This. x10000

[punkrockstar101]

Mate dont worry its not just ur tactics, the game is totally unplayable, but the die hards all tell us its fine, honestly, if the next patch doesnt sort things a lot of people will never buy the game again im sure.

[Barkers]

same. have restarted umpteen times the last couple of weeks as NOTHING works and the play in game is horrific.

ive read the tactics forum threads over and over, setup logical formations and instructions yet still no consistency in results whatsoever.

have never gotten so pissed off at a game of fm/cm in all my life.

[RTHerringbone]

Let's quit with the nonsense about the game being unplayable please. It is totally playable and thoroughly enjoyable in my opinion, but arguably requires more user input than before.

We are all on a learning curve, and change can be unsettling, but it ends up being worth it.

[forameuss]

Mate dont worry its not just ur tactics, the game is totally unplayable, but the die hards all tell us its fine, honestly, if the next patch doesnt sort things a lot of people will never buy the game again im sure.

Some might not, but I doubt it's going to make a massive dent. As usual, there'll be those who say they'll never buy again, then do so anyway. Must be a certain streak of masochism. And especially given it isn't unplayable to most, even if you're only talking about those registered on this very forum.

[HUNT3R]

What about them?

Also, what about those who do struggle but never realise this forum exists? You can twist it around however you like, the point stands.

I think those guys away from forums need to be catered for especially. Wwfan said that there are apparently stickied threads worth reading in the tactics forum for people who are struggling. It would be great if that kind of advice is available in the game as part of the tactics creator or something. Right now FM assumes we know how to build tactics. What if we can't? There needs to be some advice about the basics of tactic building.

[smp20]

The game is far from unplayable! It's all about learning the game. If you haven't got the patience to do that, then maybe FM is not for you.

[Thunder88]

@ Thunder88: Re the Athletico setup - my first question would be - why on earth would you have the AP on the RW playing as the attacking wide® player - he is meant to provide chances for other players - and given that you have the striker dropping deep, the logical thing would be to have the IF on attack so there is someone who can get on the end of the chances provided by the AP (on S). So logically an AP(S) and IF(A) would be the better wide setup. That of course would then mean swapping the DR and DL's duties around too.

I have the feeling your two MCs are a little bit too gung-ho - perhaps making one of them a DLP(S) or AP(S or A) might be better - just will tend to make them 'sit' a little more rather than both the BTB and CM(S) making runs into the opposition area.

Also slightly confused with using counter for Athletico - you are the 3rd best side in Spain - so you should be aiming to dominate the opposition - so Control is probably the best bet.

For the Villa one - I assume you mean the RW is a W(S) - for the same reason as I suggested an AP(S) above, and then Gabby as IF(A). I would have thought Benteke is good enough to play CF rather than restrict him to being a TM?

Mentality - it sounds like you WANT to play counter - but if you feel that is going to make you defend too deep, then simply up the D-Line to higher or even much higher. Similarly - if you play standard, then maybe just drop it deeper. Again in this set up - you are going to need to keep one of the MCs a bit more defensive as well as the DM, while the 'attacking' CM will need to be either BTB or CM(A) to try and give support into the oppposition's box.

Hope this helps as a starting point

I really appreciate the feedback and for that i say thanks a lot but i've gave in mate,this game for now has beaten me all ends up,i just can't play it and frustration is getting the better of me,so for my health and the health of my PC i have to just walk away with tears in my eyes lol

I've even tried FMC to take away the extra detailed pressure but nope my players are just running into each other,players have very heavy touches,all they do is just either run with the ball down a blind alley or just hoof it long and charge,if i hit it long it's 11 players vs my one striker which results in the opposition just heading it clear and starting attack number 79,if i play it short then every player is scared of the ball so again they hit it long to a player who isn't there and once again the opposition are on the attack.

It pains me so bad to say it but FM 14 is not the game for me.

As i was typing this i was having another try at Liverpool in FMC

This is how painful it is and how bad i really am..

no team or player instructions and Swansea dominated from start to finish,i couldn't get the ball and when i did it was kick it long style to Aspas...so i changed to shorter passing but nope kick it long again...tried retain possession and again we just saw players scared and giving up possession...heavy touches are killing me.

[tieio]

What about the thousands of users who will be having great success with their teams that have never been near this forum in their lives?

Exactly, what about them? I talk to a lot of players on Steam and other forums, I pretty well guarantee you that for every one person who comes here and gets "help" at least three more players are just putting the game away and not looking for help because hours of reading should not be necessary to play a GAME.

Mate dont worry its not just ur tactics, the game is totally unplayable, but the die hards all tell us its fine, honestly, if the next patch doesnt sort things a lot of people will never buy the game again im sure.

It is not unplayable, it is just difficult for most players to understand. It is playable in much the same way any game with next to no instruction is playable, it is not terribly broken but it is like fumbling in the dark.

To the OP - please don't follow this. You will learn absolutely nothing if you just use a downloaded tactic, and when it goes wrong (and there's a good chance it might) you won't have any idea how to change things, and you'll feel even more alienated with the game. You'll learn far more visiting the tactics forum, trying to implement your own ideas, and going from there.

On the contrary, using a created tactic often is the BEST way to gain insight into things that work. This is how I did it, I started with the Fulcrum S&S and started to dissect it in order to understand tactics that work.

The game is far from unplayable! It's all about learning the game. If you haven't got the patience to do that, then maybe FM is not for you.

Another type of "go play another game" post, this is the sort of thing that needs to be avoided. Let's not go this route.

[Thunder88]

The game is far from unplayable! It's all about learning the game. If you haven't got the patience to do that, then maybe FM is not for you.

I've been trying to learn how to play since it was released and i still can't get anywhere lol.

[forameuss]

Exactly, what about them? I talk to a lot of players on Steam and other forums, I pretty well guarantee you that for every one person who comes here and gets "help" at least three more players are just putting the game away and not looking for help because hours of reading should not be necessary to play a GAME.

Where I kind of agree with you, I don't completely. It doesn't take hours of reading, unless you really want to. It's completely optional. Some don't need any at all, which is achingly similar to a lot of games. Some will complete a game in a few hours, and some will need to buy the strategy guide to get anywhere. FM is a bit more specialist than that example, but you get the idea. Where I do agree with you though, is that there should be more documentation and explanation around the features. It's possibly down to the fact that there is such a good community out there that can help each other that SI don't provide that. Or maybe it's gotten so far that documenting everything is too big a job? I'm not sure, but I'd recommend that SI really look at this for FM15.

It is not unplayable, it is just difficult for most players to understand. It is playable in much the same way any game with next to no instruction is playable, it is not terribly broken but it is like fumbling in the dark.

It's hard to argue with this. The difficulty in understanding ends up being where a lot of the resentment comes in I suppose - some can handle it better than others.

On the contrary, using a created tactic often is the BEST way to gain insight into things that work. This is how I did it, I started with the Fulcrum S&S and started to dissect it in order to understand tactics that work.

But there's two schools of thought with created tactics - those who, like you, use it as an understanding tool, and then those who use it as a "well this must work". Then when it doesn't, they just think even worse of the game.