*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[milnerpoint]

In Fm12 and earlier versions, Pace & Acceleration would destroy teams. In Fm13 it's effect has been lessened because of collision detection & avoidance. Players behave far differently now - they can no longer just sprint though a bunch of defenders at will. You'll see players blocked and slowed in their tracks just because of this one added aspect.

I wonder how many people are approaching this new ME with their old Fm12 mindset? You'll have big problems if that's the case. Whatever tactics worked well in Fm12 may as well be deleted from your computer because they're useless in Fm13. You literally have to start from scratch and see Fm13 as a brand new game and not just a new incarnation of something that came before. Previously the ME's evolution came in small incremental updates, patch after patch, year after year. But this match engine is miles ahead of last years game, SI took the bold step and gave us an engine far far more advanced than anything we've seen before, and did it in one step.

So you have to totally relearn how it behaves and redesign your tactical thinking accordingly. The effect of the Pace & Acceleration aspect I mentioned is just one tiny bit that has changed to a point that you'll need to fundamentally change your way of thinking just on that one aspect alone.

Yes this ME has issues that need to be addressed, and are being, but I think what we're seeing in these early days is people coming to grips with what is essentially a brand new game. Once they realise that being a tactical god in Fm12 has zero bearing on Fm13 I think the more discerning amongst them will grow to appreciate what SI have given us here.

This! A million times this!

What i've come to realise since starting FM13, is my old tactic was one of the perfect ones for highlighting this issue, i relied on very quick wingers which i have now learned were bascially running through the opposition, this tactic was next to useless when i started FM13, i didnt score for my first 6 games thinking i was doing nothing wrong. Having sat back and looked at things again, and completely re-built my tactic from the ground up, (using a lot of wwfan's) advice, i've now got my team purring again. There also appears to be a much bigger settling in period at the start of the season, my team is like Man Utd, they dont start playing until a month into the season!

[milnerpoint]

What SI and the people associated with it have to understand is that many of those changes and improvements DO NOT SHOW IN THE END PRODUCT.

Customers don't care if the numbers are fine under the hood, they care for what they see.

Please dont bracket all of us under your wants from the game. We are not all unhappy with FM13.

[TSH]

This! A million times this!

What i've come to realise since starting FM13, is my old tactic was one of the perfect ones for highlighting this issue, i relied on very quick wingers which i have now learned were bascially running through the opposition, this tactic was next to useless when i started FM13, i didnt score for my first 6 games thinking i was doing nothing wrong. Having sat back and looked at things again, and completely re-built my tactic from the ground up, (using a lot of wwfan's) advice, i've now got my team purring again. There also appears to be a much bigger settling in period at the start of the season, my team is like Man Utd, they dont start playing until a month into the season!

What was the problem with the quick wingers then? What did you have to re-learn?

[Herbert Fandel]

Please dont bracket all of us under your wants from the game. We are not all unhappy with FM13.

Ditto. The ME isn't perfect but is 100% 'playable'. I have even grown to find the skin a thing of beauty.

[TSH]

Please dont bracket all of us under your wants from the game. We are not all unhappy with FM13.

You especially can never be unhappy with FM even if it started WW3.

[Sussex Hammer]

Do we still have to have all players on rare long shots to stop players from shooting from all over the place for the 3rd version in a row?! ;-)

I must confess I really don't see the point of "feedback" threads like this. In one corner we have people who will criticise the ME (feedback) and in the other corner we have those who will understandably defend the game to the hilt making out that nothing is wrong so what benefit does anyone get when neither side will budge?

Half the problem is that if you have a tactic that works well and you are getting some great results someone will say you have merely found holes in the ME. On the other hand if you are struggling big time and your tactic isn't working someone will say it's your tactics. So you can't win really.

We need to find some middle ground where one side admits that maybe their tactics could be better and at the same time the other side have to accept that the ME may need some work. Only then will we see improvements for the good of the game.

[TSH]

Do we still have to have all players on rare long shots to stop players from shooting from all over the place for the 3rd version in a row?! ;-)

I must confess I really don't see the point of "feedback" threads like this. In one corner we have people who will criticise the ME (feedback) and in the other corner we have those who will understandably defend the game to the hilt making out that nothing is wrong so what benefit does anyone get when neither side will budge?

Half the problem is that if you have a tactic that works well and you are getting some great results someone will say you have merely found holes in the ME. On the other hand if you are struggling big time and your tactic isn't working someone will say it's your tactics. So you can't win really.

We need to find some middle ground where one side admits that maybe their tactics could be better and at the same time the other side have to accept that the ME may need some work. Only then will we see improvements for the good of the game.

There can never be a middle ground because there is never a proper explanation of the FM's mechanics. There is no common ground for people to talk.

[milnerpoint]

I dont think anyone here has said there are no issues at all, but you have to clear through the crap rantings to get to the actual problems. I and many others can see the issues in the ME, there are a few obvious ones, but that doesnt mean its broken, it just requires a new way of thinking. Those clambering for the FM12 ME will most likely come under the bracket wwfan describes, i did, even tho i didnt think i would have at all. FM13 requires more thought than any of the ME's so far, but when you get it right in this version it feels more rewarding.

[PaulC]

Sussex Hammer - the ME will always "need work" and we will always want to improve it. Re your long shots, a long shot is essentially an "out ball" in the attacking third. If you have a bunch of examples where they are taking them for no reason with better options available then by all means upload them and we'll take a look.

[ajw10]

I think its time I said my twopenneth on the Match Engine as I believe its getting a very unfair bashing in this thread. It certainly isnt perfect and has a few rough edges but all of us in the ME team believe it is way superior to FM2012's offering overall.

Ball Physics:

- We have introduced a new model, and it is most definitely more realistic than the last one. There are one or two collision issues we need to fix up but in general the ball behaves better. I know some of you arent keen but could that not be due to you being used to what we had before?

Defending of crosses:

- We believe this was improved significantly during the beta process. However I still want to improve the position of midfielders when defending wide play for the next update. I also wonder if a lot of people suffering from conceding at the far post have an attacking wide midfielder who doesnt tend to track back on that side?

Pressing:

- We made it a little more urgent for the 13.1 build. However I'd like to make players hunt in packs a bit more although that may not be for an immediate update.

Keepers:

- They were definitely problematic through beta, but we nailed a lot of issues for release. If you are seeing more then help us eliminate them for next update by posting examples on the bugs forums...

Reaction to ball:

- Again, if you have obvious examples get them uploaded and we'll look at them.

Duties in midfield:

- Interestingly, the first beta build revealed a problem that will also have been present in the last two titles. Many AI teams would not select a central midfielder with Defend duty. This exposes teams massively to counter attacks or loss of possession in certain areas. Two observations from fixing this - a) it may well make the game a bit harder and b) if you arent doing this you may be more exposed than before.

Number of goals:

- We are pretty ok with the number of goals in the release build. However certain setups will see less than average, others more, as it should be.

What next?

- I'm working on a ME update to be released this month at some point. No date set as yet. I'll post an update of what is likely to be changed in due course.

AOB:

- Listen to the likes of wwfan and rashidi1 if you are struggling as they know their stuff.........

Any news on goalkeepers refusing to pass short?

[zeke]

There can never be a middle ground because there is never a proper explanation of the FM's mechanics. There is no common ground for people to talk.

I have to agree with the above two posters. It is an tug of war always when talking about the tactics.

The main problem remains that most people don't understand the sliders and few slider descriptions are faulty. Why these aren't fixed who knows.. same year after year.

Also part of the problem is the tactical creator itself. While it is nice looking toy to make initial setup than again you will not get the movement of players corrected without adjusting some of sliders.

These mentality settings etc should be visualized so people would understand what they are adjusting. Currently that is not the case and that is why many players are having problems.

Maybe in FM14 than.. at least that should be done.

These shouts etc are nice things but than again I bet that 85% barely watch the games. Personally using just commentary since want the game to progress at steady speed.

..just watch enough so I can safely say that I have sensible tactic and that is it. Oh, and never looked for another "diablo" tactic either.

Just to say that is your tactics.. well it is tricky match engine this time around for sure.

[Rashidi]

There can never be a middle ground because there is never a proper explanation of the FM's mechanics. There is no common ground for people to talk.

What do you want? You want everything sugar coated to the point where someone actually tells you how to play? Head to the Training and Tactics Forum, plenty of good people there who understand each and every facet of the game. The match engine? Well ok...lets see..ever read any of the detailed explanations of what each slider does? How each shout works? A lot is covered in the manual and there are once again a lot of threads on the forums.

Many years ago people couldnt make head or tail outta the sliders so a bunch of guys worked really hard to break everything down for you. Every mechanic from training to tactics is covered on those forums. Naturally noone is going to show you the code for the engine, but the logic for the engine is shared openly. The only thing that is hidden from us are the hidden attributes that affect the game. How the engine calculates risk vs reward, but you dont need to be a genius to figure that out. Its a numbers game, my 10 year old son plays this game and he makes me look like a novice. And he doesnt even come to the forums, just sends me emails asking me what the sliders mean.

I agree with Sussex 100%. Yes there are flaws in the engine, and i have openly admitted to these flaws, that dead zone I keep seeing on the pitch where tackles should be a bit harder. The buggy goalie. People who are actually constructively contributing by providing key examples of these flaws and showing how they can be replicated are helping this game progress. If anyone here is having major issues with the engine I would strongly suggest reading some of the threads on the forums. If you want to understand more mechanics head over to FM Britain as well.

Speaking of which wwfan i cant reset my password on those forums

[Sussex Hammer]

Sussex Hammer - the ME will always "need work" and we will always want to improve it. Re your long shots, a long shot is essentially an "out ball" in the attacking third. If you have a bunch of examples where they are taking them for no reason with better options available then by all means upload them and we'll take a look.

I know you are Paul, I agree with Milnerpoint we just need to stop the rantings and accept that there are issues on both sides.

RE Long shots I was being a little sarcastic I apologise. I haven't loaded up FM13 as yet but I just felt this was an issue never sorted in 11 and 12. As were the defensive aspects of Central Midfielders in FM12. I mean when you have experienced posters who know what they are talking about saying you are better off playing two DM's then you know there is an issue.

Hopefully I'll load the game later today and see if there are any problems.

[teodoro]

I think its time I said my twopenneth on the Match Engine as I believe its getting a very unfair bashing in this thread. It certainly isnt perfect and has a few rough edges but all of us in the ME team believe it is way superior to FM2012's offering overall.

Ball Physics:

- We have introduced a new model, and it is most definitely more realistic than the last one. There are one or two collision issues we need to fix up but in general the ball behaves better. I know some of you arent keen but could that not be due to you being used to what we had before?

Defending of crosses:

- We believe this was improved significantly during the beta process. However I still want to improve the position of midfielders when defending wide play for the next update. I also wonder if a lot of people suffering from conceding at the far post have an attacking wide midfielder who doesnt tend to track back on that side?

Pressing:

- We made it a little more urgent for the 13.1 build. However I'd like to make players hunt in packs a bit more although that may not be for an immediate update.

Keepers:

- They were definitely problematic through beta, but we nailed a lot of issues for release. If you are seeing more then help us eliminate them for next update by posting examples on the bugs forums...

Reaction to ball:

- Again, if you have obvious examples get them uploaded and we'll look at them.

Duties in midfield:

- Interestingly, the first beta build revealed a problem that will also have been present in the last two titles. Many AI teams would not select a central midfielder with Defend duty. This exposes teams massively to counter attacks or loss of possession in certain areas. Two observations from fixing this - a) it may well make the game a bit harder and b) if you arent doing this you may be more exposed than before.

Number of goals:

- We are pretty ok with the number of goals in the release build. However certain setups will see less than average, others more, as it should be.

What next?

- I'm working on a ME update to be released this month at some point. No date set as yet. I'll post an update of what is likely to be changed in due course.

AOB:

- Listen to the likes of wwfan and rashidi1 if you are struggling as they know their stuff.........

Very disappointed.

This press release is pathetic as it tends to minimize the problems and tries to take time ..

They hope that the fans calm down someway.

It's clear that the developers do not know how to address the big issues of ME in the short term.

The main problems are not resolved and remain on the table.

Meanwhile ME is a big failure, without excitement and fun, at least for me.

After this statement i give up FM 2013.

Sorry to say that, but now I realize I've thrown out the window 49.99 Euro.

[Rashidi]

I have to agree with the above two posters. It is an tug of war always when talking about the tactics.

The main problem remains that most people don't understand the sliders and few slider descriptions are faulty. Why these aren't fixed who knows.. same year after year.

These mentality settings etc should be visualized so people would understand what they are adjusting. Currently that is not the case and that is why many players are having problems.

.. well it is tricky match engine this time around for sure.

I did suggest doing visual indicators for defensive lines, mentalities and such so that people could incorporate that into the game, but once you lay in decision making and creative freedom those lines become relative and are harder to pin down. A persons creative freedom gives him more latitude to make decisions and this affects a lotta things. Yeah the TC is a two headed beast, i totally agree. If you come into the game for the first time and use it as a new player, i can see how it will confuse people. I mean you would choose attacking in you wanted to and then go erm what do the rest mean? And come out confused.

Its a sentiment i share. What may be handy is having a complete breakdown of what each slider does. I've actually done that myself and then corelated how this affects everything else in a spreadsheet to understand it better. I dont think a lot of people out there will do that which would suggest we need a better way to transmit this.

ps> jeez ive spent too much time here..need to return to the game.

[Fabio MVP]

Very disappointed, although expected.

This press release is pathetic as it tends to minimize the problems and try to take time ..

They hope that the fans calm down someway.

It's clear that the developers do not know how to address the big issues of ME in the short term.

The main problems are not resolved and remain on the table.

Meanwhile ME is a big failure, without excitement and fun, at least for me.

After this sneaky statement i give up FM 2013.

Sorry to say that, but now I realize I've thrown out the window 49.99 Euro.

Why were you showing off your copy of the game on the window?

[mandella]

Yes it does slow down. If it didn't it would never stop. In the old ME the ball moved too fast across the ground compared to this one. There may be one or two anomalies arising from collisions but in terms of the basic ball physics, I cannot understand where you are coming from.

Well then, if you don't notice the fact that the ball is behaving like puck on ice than I guess I'm done with FM13 since the way the ball behaves is absolutely non-realistic and seems it won't be changed. The speed of the ball might be good but they way it moves on the pitch is baffling - you seriously don't see it? I just can't believe it...

[Sussex Hammer]

Maybe we are trying too much to get things perfect with our tactics as well. In 12 I gave up tinkering with sliders and using the TC and went to a global attacking 4-4-2 with all players on the same mixed settings bar a few tweaks with creative freedom and less FR etc on goalkeeper and centre backs. In my long term save I am 2nd in the League with this run of the mill global tactic. Whether it will work in 13 is a different matter though!!!!

[TSH]

What do you want? You want everything sugar coated to the point where someone actually tells you how to play? Head to the Training and Tactics Forum, plenty of good people there who understand each and every facet of the game. The match engine? Well ok...lets see..ever read any of the detailed explanations of what each slider does? How each shout works? A lot is covered in the manual and there are once again a lot of threads on the forums.

Many years ago people couldnt make head or tail outta the sliders so a bunch of guys worked really hard to break everything down for you. Every mechanic from training to tactics is covered on those forums. Naturally noone is going to show you the code for the engine, but the logic for the engine is shared openly. The only thing that is hidden from us are the hidden attributes that affect the game. How the engine calculates risk vs reward, but you dont need to be a genius to figure that out. Its a numbers game, my 10 year old son plays this game and he makes me look like a novice. And he doesnt even come to the forums, just sends me emails asking me what the sliders mean.

I agree with Sussex 100%. Yes there are flaws in the engine, and i have openly admitted to these flaws, that dead zone I keep seeing on the pitch where tackles should be a bit harder. The buggy goalie. People who are actually constructively contributing by providing key examples of these flaws and showing how they can be replicated are helping this game progress. If anyone here is having major issues with the engine I would strongly suggest reading some of the threads on the forums. If you want to understand more mechanics head over to FM Britain as well.

Speaking of which wwfan i cant reset my password on those forums

As I have said, again and again, I have no problem winning everything in this game, even with small teams in a five year plan. The tactics module and AI are really very basic to offer any kind of long term challenge.

Explaining the mechanics is not sugar coated. Every manager in real life has the same language and shares the same meaning for all the instructions with the other managers. It's how these are being put to work that's the difference. All the explanations people offer in this forum about the tactics are interpetation of meaning, not fact. Some work and some don't. There are instances where pressing or tempo for one player has resulted in completely different way than another. That is the problem. The instructions should be clear for anyone and the implementation should be the gameplay, not the other way around (this is badly mixed in the ME in my opinion). Besides, there must be a basic design fault as to how the hidden attributes affect different kinds of instructions, that is why there are so many people who appear to have problems with basic instructions not behaving as they should. Surely not all can be stupid.

As for those saying they changed their way of thinking from FM12. What did you change exactly? I'm not looking for any advice, I don't need it. I just like to know what it is that worked in the previous game and doesn't work now. Some examples would be great.

[teodoro]

Why were you showing off your copy of the game on the window?

Do not worry, it's a digital download trough Steam...

[PaulC]

Well then, if you don't notice the fact that the ball is behaving like puck on ice than I guess I'm done with FM13 since the way the ball behaves is absolutely non-realistic and seems it won't be changed. The speed of the ball might be good but they way it moves on the pitch is baffling - you seriously don't see it? I just can't believe it...

I'm baffled too, as generally I think its fine! Sorry.

[Fabio MVP]

Do not worry, it's a digital download trough Steam...

Oh good. Thought for a second you dropped it!

[milnerpoint]

As for those saying they changed their way of thinking from FM12. What did you change exactly? I'm not looking for any advice, I don't need it. I just like to know what it is that worked in the previous game doesn't work now. Some examples should be great.

If you dont need advice, or want it, why should we answer you?

[PaulC]

teodoro - I'm sorry you feel that way, but I know we can't please everyone.

TSH - I reckon you are bright enough to work things out for yourself. I dont have time to give you what you want I am afraid.

[zeke]

I did suggest doing visual indicators for defensive lines, mentalities and such so that people could incorporate that into the game, but once you lay in decision making and creative freedom those lines become relative and are harder to pin down. A persons creative freedom gives him more latitude to make decisions and this affects a lotta things. Yeah the TC is a two headed beast, i totally agree. If you come into the game for the first time and use it as a new player, i can see how it will confuse people. I mean you would choose attacking in you wanted to and then go erm what do the rest mean? And come out confused.

Its a sentiment i share. What may be handy is having a complete breakdown of what each slider does. I've actually done that myself and then corelated how this affects everything else in a spreadsheet to understand it better. I dont think a lot of people out there will do that which would suggest we need a better way to transmit this.

ps> jeez ive spent too much time here..need to return to the game.

Yup. Pretty much agree 100% what you said.

The main lines like width, defensive lines should be made visual. Now it is just +12 clicks there... etc. That can mess your tactics for sure. Most likely many problems are due to this... this should be included in FM14.

Also agree that not all things can be visualized but proper explanaton what that does should be included in the game. I have been doing tactics myself for years so it is not impossible to tweak things around but easily can see why so many are having huge problems.

As for the creator.. well tried few basic formations with roles to see whether it would actually play out how it is described. Well, that got the tactic maybe 60% done. The rest needed manual tweaking and few testing. After two nights I think sorted that out. For new FM players this most likely will cause a lot of headaches which is not good thing overall for the series.

..enjoy your save. I will have some fun with mine later tonight.

[mandella]

I'm baffled too, as generally I think its fine! Sorry.

How can you not see that it acts like a puck on ice, christ... Eh, well then, guess I'm done with FM13 and any future versions of the game. Those (almost )20 years of CM/FM were fun, at least thanks for that.

[Keyzer Soze]

I think its time I said my twopenneth on the Match Engine as I believe its getting a very unfair bashing in this thread. It certainly isnt perfect and has a few rough edges but all of us in the ME team believe it is way superior to FM2012's offering overall.

I agree with pretty much PaulC wrote... except for this little part. At the moment i dont think the current ME is better than FM2012 ME. In fact i think it's far worse.

I can undersand, by reading the wise words of wwfan or radshid1, that many issues that people report are related with the tactics they use (pressing problems, too many crosses, too many passes...), but there are other issues that i cant be convinced that are tactic related:

- gk acting weird, goals from strange angles, ball and players looking like they are sliding on ice...

I'm sure that all this issues will be fixed in a near future... but untill then i think it's pretty obvious, at least for me, that the old ME was better. And untill then i'll keep playing FM2012!

No harm done! Take your time SI!

[zlatan_messi]

Good Afternoon,

After playing some hours I think the this game need some work but is far from being unplayable however i´ve noticed some unrealistic results in the champions league for example: Celtic winning 6-0 to shakhtar donetsk or basel winning 6-0 against Porto or Nordsjælland winning 4-0 against Chelsea.

Thank you

[asdpoo]

Any news on goalkeepers refusing to pass short?

My GK is set on defender collect and it works since Nov 2nd.

My main gripe now is that the contract demands algorithm is untouched and still ridiculously wrong.

[TSH]

If you dont need advice, or want it, why should we answer you?

Because you must offer arguments to support your claims against mine. If you don't want to, there is no need to reply to any of my posts.

[smokeymcpot49]

is it just me or has the issue with just wanting to check on scorers in a game and the game loading the entire match report been fixed?

Is this going to get fixed? Waiting 15 seconds just to see who scored in a game is rather painful.

[TSH]

teodoro - I'm sorry you feel that way, but I know we can't please everyone.

TSH - I reckon you are bright enough to work things out for yourself. I dont have time to give you what you want I am afraid.

Yeah, PaulC, don't worry. I really understand that you don't have time to answer any claim or complaint (genuine not sarcastic statement).

[PaulC]

My GK is set on defender collect and it works since Nov 2nd.

My main gripe now is that the contract demands algorithm is untouched and still ridiculously wrong.

It should be better since release but there will still be some times when they wont do it:

- When its too dangerous

- I think sometimes it isnt working at free kicks taken by the keeper in deep areas still but I'll have to check with QA.

[milnerpoint]

Because you must offer arguments to support your claims against mine. If you don't want to, there is no need to reply to any of my posts.

What are your claims regarding changing tactical approaches from FM12?

I cant see you've made any, you've just ranted on and on without providing any evidence to back yourself up.

[Sarin1]

Unfortunately after playing the FM series since before it was FM, playing it heavily almost religiously and pre ordering every single game.

This is by far the worst Match Engine ever and the poorest attempt.

If you guys really, as you said, have been working on this ME since fm2011. Then god help us customers.

The flow to the football is just bad at times, ive seen players, quality chelsea players stand still for a good 20 seconds with 3 easy passes on, till they are tackled.

Movement is bad, strikers are bad, defending is bad.

This doesnt come from frustration in not winning the game, im currently way out in front in the league and on my way to dominating the champions league, but the ME is horrible.

You have gone backwards, BADLY.

It seems like you spent all your time working on FM Classic, to bring in more money from the casual players, and have purely abandoned anyone who is not playing the basic microtransactions game.

Seriously only playing it to try and get my moneys worth and then will likely never purchase another title.

edit.. The worst in my opinion, is the opposition when 1-0 or 2-0 down, having 10 players INSIDE THEIR OWN PENALTY BOX. Defending, just standing in it. Every attack.

No effort to counter, no one staying up.

All you have to do is drop 2-3 out of the attack, collect every rebound and put it back in the box till you score.

Absolutely HORRIBLE

[Äktsjon Männ]

My GK is set on defender collect and it works since Nov 2nd.

Well obviously it doesn't for others. I think it's one of the abstract instructions (or the combination of many) making the GK not 'see' the defender in his passing range.

Another problem with GK's is that their distribution attributes make very little difference and such a vast majority of long kicks end up in lost possession. If good goalkeepers could hit their intended targets with the sort of regularity they do in real football so many of us wouldn't feel the need to set their distribution to short in the first place.

[themadsheep2001]

It should be better since release but there will still be some times when they wont do it:

- When its too dangerous

- I think sometimes it isnt working at free kicks taken by the keeper in deep areas still but I'll have to check with QA.

I've noticed that on the goal kicks the full backs are too deep and the Centre backs are too high, I'll upload a PKM later, but it looks like its making it more difficult for the keeper to make the short pass? It also just looks wrong in its own right.

[ajw10]

It should be better since release but there will still be some times when they wont do it:

- When its too dangerous

- I think sometimes it isnt working at free kicks taken by the keeper in deep areas still but I'll have to check with QA.

That still does't explain the numerous times when all four of my defenders are standing in acres of space, unmarked and my keeper still hits it long. I'm genuinely concerned if this is not being looked into as it's definitely a game breaker for me. As Arsenal, one of my board promises is to keep hold of the ball. I cannot achieve this if my goalkeeper is constantly punting the ball to Theo Walcott.

This and pressing are my two biggest gripes with the ME.

[TSH]

What are your claims regarding changing tactical approaches from FM12?

I cant see you've made any, you've just ranted on and on without providing any evidence to back yourself up.

Plenty of evidence are around in the forums. Haven't you been reading the last 11 pages?

[milnerpoint]

Plenty of evidence are around in the forums. Haven't you been reading the last 11 pages?

I have and im yet to see a single piece of evidence from you, nothing but rantings that help no one.

Again ill ask, what are your opinions on changing your tactical approach from FM12?

[Welshace]

Can we keep the thread about providing constructive feedback about the game please lads?

[Fabio MVP]

You tell 'em welshace.

[rigano2101]

I think Football Manager Classic was aimed at people like me. Lapsed players who waste £20 on FM every year and then rarely play it.

In the last year i've actually played Champman 00/01 more than FM.

My issue with FM remains the same, I got the demo, played a few games, even in classic mode, I had no real idea what was affecting the results. I felt out of control. I felt with previous games I could see improvements in my team coming and I knew where to improve to get better results. For some people like me it goes back to the original Football Manager games where you would basically be trying to move up levels, it was engrossing and it was clear what you had to do. Here i'm just clicking through options wondering what random occurence is going to happen next.

I'll probably end up getting the game for christmas but on the face of the demo, the classic mode will do little to win round lapsed players.

[teodoro]

teodoro - I'm sorry you feel that way, but I know we can't please everyone.

Paulc - I'am a hardcore gamer and always, until now, you have pleased me, from 2001.

But not this year.

I'm demanding in a reasonable manner, as many other people here a ME better or equal to FM 2012.

I'm not asking for the moon.

Sorry to say that you are not able to meet my basic needs, this year.

[santacl]

I think its time I said my twopenneth on the Match Engine as I believe its getting a very unfair bashing in this thread. It certainly isnt perfect and has a few rough edges but all of us in the ME team believe it is way superior to FM2012's offering overall.

Ball Physics:

- We have introduced a new model, and it is most definitely more realistic than the last one. There are one or two collision issues we need to fix up but in general the ball behaves better. I know some of you arent keen but could that not be due to you being used to what we had before?

Sounds to me like there aint gonna be a fix for that then, back to 2012 version then for me.

To bad!

[slipknot67]

Is this going to get fixed? Waiting 15 seconds just to see who scored in a game is rather painful.

If you just want to see who scored, go to the fixture list and click on the tick to the left of the fixture date, the goalscorers and player ratings will be displayed on the right side of the screen.

[avex]

I think its time I said my twopenneth on the Match Engine as I believe its getting a very unfair bashing in this thread. It certainly isnt perfect and has a few rough edges but all of us in the ME team believe it is way superior to FM2012's offering overall.

Ball Physics:

- We have introduced a new model, and it is most definitely more realistic than the last one. There are one or two collision issues we need to fix up but in general the ball behaves better. I know some of you arent keen but could that not be due to you being used to what we had before?

Pressing:

- We made it a little more urgent for the 13.1 build. However I'd like to make players hunt in packs a bit more although that may not be for an immediate update.

Keepers:

- They were definitely problematic through beta, but we nailed a lot of issues for release. If you are seeing more then help us eliminate them for next update by posting examples on the bugs forums...

Well, the goalkeepers issue with passing is far from being fixed. It's impossible to have them passing short and I'm not talking about isolated moments, but about every match. I'm even instructing him to hold the ball and still didn't manage to get a GK with more than 60% of completed passes (while used to 90-100% in previous FM). I don't want them to make long passes even if their life depends on it, and it should be achievable.

Pressing is too mild. I want my players to close down the player with the ball as soon he has the ball, to get it in the opposite field and not let a positional attack ever happen, and I'm finding that impossible. Players return too fast to their defensive positions even with the most extreme pressing settings.

And about the ball physics... what I'm seeing watching full matches is far from realistic (compared to what I see watching real life matches). Ball moves too fast (looks like a disc gliding on ice), rebounds go too far, headings go insanely far (seen them from box to the middle of the opposite field...).

The Match Engine isn't as bad as people say - but they only see about 5 minutes of play out of the 90, and the feedback about tactics needs to reflect the desires of the players - we want quick and dirty feedback as a lot of us love other aspects of the game (i.e. winning matches rather than in-depth tactical play, or developing our youth, or building up our team to the premiership). Thus, the perception of the end-user will forever be tilted towards the key events.

For example when videos were shown of the match engine, a lot of people said about how bad the defence was. As I pointed out all they are seeing is goals - necessarily the defence must be playing at below their usual level or otherwise there wouldn't be a goal. Now consider what the user sees during a game - key events will nearly always show the defence making a mistake at lower leagues. This creates a bias against defence from the start - what other information do we have to work off?

I'm used to watch full matches since a couple of FMs, and what I'm seeing in this edition is less realistic than what I did in the previous one. At least in FM12 goals could be scored without the defense totally messing it. Just with the attackers doing better. Also I'm seeing ridiculous mistakes (always about "not doing anything") of higher level defensive lines (Madrid, Barcelona, At. Madrid...) in nearly every match.

[smokeymcpot49]

If you just want to see who scored, go to the fixture list and click on the tick to the left of the fixture date, the goalscorers and player ratings will be displayed on the right side of the screen.

So there is way of seeing other matches stats without waiting for the match report to load..

Shame.

[slipknot67]

So there is way of seeing other matches stats without waiting for the match report to load..

Shame.

Well it wont show you actual match stats like possession, number of shots, passing and tackling stats etc, so if by 'shame' you mean it probably gives SI a reason to not be too bothered about fixing this issue you'd be wrong, they've already acknowledged numerous times that they realise it's a serious issue but at the same time it's a difficult one to fix in terms of potential side effects from attempting to change it back so might take quite a while to get back the way it was.

[Stomalomalus]

My twopennies worth.

It's a bit...bulkier than before. It takes a lot longer to load and this is on the demo, which is only a quick load. The tactics and training is a bit confusing, to be honest, and I'm not sure it's an improvement. All in all it seems polished, though, and there are some nice touches that I know a lot of people have been asking for: it looks better, for one. In the demo there is only a dark skin, though (for match days), I don't know if this is different in the full release. My major gripe is the same one I had with FM2012, 2011, etc.: there is way too much emphasis put upon home games. I know it had to be changed from before and it shouldn't be as easy away as it is at home, but when you have every base covered in your team, a formation that works and you've done what you need to counter the threats of the opposition you should still stand more of a chance.

I did not play it in depth as it just took too long for each page to load (no such problems on FM2012) but my record was 100% at home and 0% away. Classic looked good and was faster and more streamlined, but it felt very different thanks to the skin, mainly. It had some nice graphical touches but that was it, for me. I liked transfer deadline day but wish that there were more random press questions: they're good ones and I imagine they happen quite a lot IRL.

All in all, from my brief experiences, I would say that it's graphically a better game with some nice changes that make life easier (search bar drop down, for one) but that gameplay wise it's really not much of a step forward. But that could conceivably be because of the BETA. However, I was only going to buy the game if it was incredible this year (that could change, it usually does, I said the same thing for 2012 and that turned into one of the versions I played the most), I'm probably not going to spend the cash. I also have some steam issues but that isn't going to change, so I guess I have to put up with it as much as I dislike it.