*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[bugsgalore]

You tell 'em welshace.

So Fabio why did you buy the game after saying you won't be :-)

[Fabio MVP]

So Fabio why did you buy the game after saying you won't be :-)

Never said that. Never bought the game. But, still playing it. Go figure.

[junker]

Im pissed off with the ME but I also see the potential. However Norwich finishing 3rd in the 1st season on my save has made me put the game down until the next patch.

[milnerpoint]

Never said that. Never bought the game. But, still playing it. Go figure.

HAXOR!!!!!!!!

( i know your not but still )

[mightymanager]

FM2013 is very promising.

Just small tweaks for defensing ( player reaction still strange sometime, not takling but only "pressing and followingthe opponent's a" ), attak not scoring sometimes although they should, pressing more quickly and not waiting for action, and players seeing back and sending the ball back for nothing and not foward too much.

Too many long shots still in the cage and not outside ( thanks to the goal keeper ! )

Still lower team are having too excellent passing and are playing like barcelona

[guinden21]

I think its time I said my twopenneth on the Match Engine as I believe its getting a very unfair bashing in this thread. It certainly isnt perfect and has a few rough edges but all of us in the ME team believe it is way superior to FM2012's offering overall.

Ball Physics:

- We have introduced a new model, and it is most definitely more realistic than the last one. There are one or two collision issues we need to fix up but in general the ball behaves better. I know some of you arent keen but could that not be due to you being used to what we had before?

Defending of crosses:

- We believe this was improved significantly during the beta process. However I still want to improve the position of midfielders when defending wide play for the next update. I also wonder if a lot of people suffering from conceding at the far post have an attacking wide midfielder who doesnt tend to track back on that side?

Pressing:

- We made it a little more urgent for the 13.1 build. However I'd like to make players hunt in packs a bit more although that may not be for an immediate update.

Keepers:

- They were definitely problematic through beta, but we nailed a lot of issues for release. If you are seeing more then help us eliminate them for next update by posting examples on the bugs forums...

Reaction to ball:

- Again, if you have obvious examples get them uploaded and we'll look at them.

Duties in midfield:

- Interestingly, the first beta build revealed a problem that will also have been present in the last two titles. Many AI teams would not select a central midfielder with Defend duty. This exposes teams massively to counter attacks or loss of possession in certain areas. Two observations from fixing this - a) it may well make the game a bit harder and b) if you arent doing this you may be more exposed than before.

Number of goals:

- We are pretty ok with the number of goals in the release build. However certain setups will see less than average, others more, as it should be.

What next?

- I'm working on a ME update to be released this month at some point. No date set as yet. I'll post an update of what is likely to be changed in due course.

AOB:

- Listen to the likes of wwfan and rashidi1 if you are struggling as they know their stuff.........

"ME team believe it is way superior to FM2012's offering overall." Well if your ME team believes this, they are playing with another engine, or they just dishonest, sorry that is the truth. I mean if i worked for two years on a project and at release it turns out to be an utter crap compared to the last one, i can understand them, i would not say either that: hey we think after 2 years working on this new engine it is still pretty awful

Ball Physics: i liked the old one, no one realy cared about it the new one is ridiculous sometimes, like the straight line etc rebounds

Defending of crosses: was awful, still painful to watch the WB FB as chasing the winger and the last second moves away let him cross the ball...

Pressing: is at awful state, you have examples in bug forum.

Reaction to ball: nominated to the worst of all award. It's just utterly crap, players don't even follow the ball movement, tackling then rubberbanding, reaction to ball bounce misplaced passes, players running into each other, players don't give a crap about clearences when we could lead acounter attack only the one who did it does.

let me add some more...

- movements/passing with ball in the centre forward risky passes, not backward almost everytime

- dribble in the centre going past anyone /nonexist

- running with ball instructions in the centre / players don't care without the pref. move and not more with it also

- through balls to the penalty area /

- passing through centre team instruction(how many things can it f*** up)

- strikers inability to run/turn with the ball when they get it backpass FTW,

- every team playing barca style almost zero verstaility in play style of AI, get near the box pass around ends up in longshot

- passing still too accurate **** teams with awful passing passing around the box like every player of them is xavi..

- absolutely ridiculous direct free kick ball physics

- goals that not given

- not goals that given

- keeper distribution

- not fluid gameplay decision making near the sides standing turning around like idiots then pass to keeper when 3-4 options to clear pass to teammate, or making a long ball other side with short pass instructions.

- not going for goals in one on one situations strikers run the side

- overpowered corner "near post" usage, im curious when others will bring this up

- lack of striker movements in the penalty area

- low rep teams play like they drink blood before matches and beat the **** out of much better teams.

- idiot zero angle running the baseline goal attempts 99% of time haven't seen a single back pass to second line players

- pace acceleration is much more overpowered than in FM 12 ridiculous half pitch through runs with 10 dribble skill! but 17/18 acce/pace,defenders just watch don't even try to tackle.

- if it's not enough i can add more next time

I'm a tester myself if i let any application out of my hand for release, in a state like this, i would have been fired immedietly that's sure...I guess your testing team is happy that in the game industry it's ok.

[alexcati]

Paul can you please tell me when will be next update? Or at least around what date to expect? Thanks

[daylight]

I'm baffled too, as generally I think its fine! Sorry.

Man that is a hammer blow,I was really looking forward to the ball physics and the skating player's to be fixed in a patch but if the guy that designs it says it is fine then that's that then

[Welshace]

Paul can you please tell me when will be next update? Or at least around what date to expect? Thanks

nothing confirmed or concrete, but Paul has previously said they are working on one for release within the next month or so.

[bugsgalore]

HAXOR!!!!!!!!

( i know your not but still )

Of course your going to say that you don't want to look stupid or saying you Wont buy it yet you buy ha next you will be saying Milnerpoint doesn't have a picture of Neil Brock and miles on his wall

Happy biting :-)

[WormboY]

PaulC, and about network bug(s), like the client when whants to buy players, do you know anything about it?

At this moment i'm very disappointed with FM'13. And like someone said "I feel like i threw away 49.90€", and I'm not playing since 2 days ago. I hope I/we can play this game in decent conditions soon, very soon...

[Stuart Warren]

PaulC, and about network bug(s), like the client when whants to buy players, do you know anything about it?

At this moment i'm very disappointed with FM'13. And like someone said "I feel like i threw away 49.90€", and I'm not playing since 2 days ago. I hope I/we can play this game in decent conditions soon, very soon...

That's an issue we're aware of and working on a fix for currently, WormboY. Paul is focussed on the match engine side of things

[WormboY]

Allright Stuart, tks for the answer

[mightymanager]

Paul said this month without any specific date

[alexcati]

Stuart when is next update?

[alexcati]

Paul said this month without any specific date

Ok thanks for answer.

[Fabio MVP]

Of course your going to say that you don't want to look stupid or saying you Wont buy it yet you buy ha next you will be saying Milnerpoint doesn't have a picture of Neil Brock and miles on his wall

Happy biting :-)

Excuse me, but what? Learn English. Learn grammar.

[WormboY]

30th November, its a nice date

[Fabio MVP]

30th November, its a nice date

Aye, it's my birthday.

[alexcati]

30th November, its a nice date

Its to late.Hope for sooner like this week.

[Matt123]

In Fm12 and earlier versions, Pace & Acceleration would destroy teams. In Fm13 it's effect has been lessened because of collision detection & avoidance. Players behave far differently now - they can no longer just sprint though a bunch of defenders at will. You'll see players blocked and slowed in their tracks just because of this one added aspect.

I wonder how many people are approaching this new ME with their old Fm12 mindset? You'll have big problems if that's the case. Whatever tactics worked well in Fm12 may as well be deleted from your computer because they're useless in Fm13. You literally have to start from scratch and see Fm13 as a brand new game and not just a new incarnation of something that came before. Previously the ME's evolution came in small incremental updates, patch after patch, year after year. But this match engine is miles ahead of last years game, SI took the bold step and gave us an engine far far more advanced than anything we've seen before, and did it in one step.

So you have to totally relearn how it behaves and redesign your tactical thinking accordingly. The effect of the Pace & Acceleration aspect I mentioned is just one tiny bit that has changed to a point that you'll need to fundamentally change your way of thinking just on that one aspect alone.

Yes this ME has issues that need to be addressed, and are being, but I think what we're seeing in these early days is people coming to grips with what is essentially a brand new game. Once they realise that being a tactical god in Fm12 has zero bearing on Fm13 I think the more discerning amongst them will grow to appreciate what SI have given us here.

I'm not sure what difference I can make to my tactics from FM12 they worked so well on there and i'm just a bit baffled as to how i can fix it, i will leave it for now see if my team get adjusted to the tactics and start playing well but i've struggled to break teams down in friendlies and i got bossed at home by norwich couldn't even get into double figure shots whilst they could and lucky to draw 1-1 as spurs

[WormboY]

Its to late.Hope for sooner like this week.

You and everybody :\

[mightymanager]

yes this week, as there are too many feedbacks on the ME.

Paul, as the players has quyickly helped you for the feedback, please listen to them by updating very SOON !

[Fabio MVP]

No way it will be this week. Some time at the end of November I reckon.

[alexcati]

Erimus1876

Mate is not about changes that has been made is just that there nothing is logical and your instruction dont show on the pitch.Also IRL pace is one of most important quality if not the most important.All great players IRL have acceleration and pace.ME should be made as what you see IRL and not someone from SI think.Im wondering if they are working with any coach for this ME?

[asdpoo]

Well obviously it doesn't for others. I think it's one of the abstract instructions (or the combination of many) making the GK not 'see' the defender in his passing range.

Here are some screenshots of the goalkeeper's distribution before and after the release patch. His instructions are "defender collect" without specifying a defender and no creative freedom.

And I'll use that SI are monitoring this thread and repeat that contract demands algorithm is unacceptably wrong for yet another year.

[PaulC]

yes this week, as there are too many feedbacks on the ME.

Paul, as the players has quyickly helped you for the feedback, please listen to them by updating very SOON !

There are only 24 hours in a day, and we wont rush any update.

[Herbert Fandel]

Im wondering if they are working with any coach for this ME?

All great players IRL have acceleration and pace

Once upon a time it was the mighty Ray Hougton. Was never sure why SI were so proud of that at the time.

[mightymanager]

This thread will become a battle ring if the update is n ot coming this week.

Expection of people are so much that I'm noticing tensions.

Instead, pepole should go and play and help for tactics, but no, there is boxing challenge here about ME. ...

[Äktsjon Männ]

Here are some screenshots of the goalkeeper distribution before and after the release patch. His instructions are "defender collect" without specifying a defender and no creative freedom.

Erm, I'm glad it works for you. It doesn't for many others as you can see if you read through the thread. There are obviously other variables in play in addition to keeper settings.

[Martyr1777]

I have and im yet to see a single piece of evidence from you, nothing but rantings that help no one.

Again ill ask, what are your opinions on changing your tactical approach from FM12?

Ok, I've returned to look at the latest release and reading this forum doesn't help me at all.

Granted I will say I think Milner has a point, after looking through the bug forum there is very little major threads referring to the issues people are complaining about here, so makes me think they are being haters in many cases.

But at the same time milner, wwfan, and the other supporters.. while offering some tactical advise.. don't give any specifics of what they think are the flaws. I've seen the supporters all say there are flaws but only PaulC has stated any of them from the supporter camp. So if you guys are saying that others are just being overly harsh and the game is good but has problems, tell me what the problems YOU see are so I have something to worth with.

As it is you got two sides, one screaming how broken it is and the other saying its not broken just a few minor bugs that you don't specify. Without the supporters giving more feedback then I'm left thinking there is no credibility on either side. Granted I've had many a discussion with the supporters in the past and can trust them to a degree, but with a completely revamped ME I want some quality feedback not just tactics advice that I've seen in the past when I've known there were ME bugs.

So I think both sides could be better in how they are reacting. But I bring this up because I'm honestly trying to decide if I should give SI my money again. I'm wanting to play some more FM but I can't trust the product form past experience especially with a total revamp. Some of the new changes/features sound nice to me but if the ME is more broken then its been before I'm not giving them any money.

So how about some real quality feedback or do I have to be like Fabio and find out without paying.

[asdpoo]

Erm, I'm glad it works for you. It doesn't for many others as you can see if you read through the thread. There are obviously other variables in play in addition to keeper settings.

If you don't share specifics nobody can help you. Like tactical instructions and pkms. Because obviously it isn't universally broken like it was before.

[Morlio18]

I adore the layout of the game but the match engine is awful, players nor indeed tactics have any bearings on a result. It just seems so randomized to me. Ive even tested world class players in League One and they struggle to get a result.

[alexcati]

Once upon a time it was the mighty Ray Hougton. Was never sure why SI were so proud of that at the time.

Also your statement that all great players have pace and acceleration is nonsense. Total. Fecking. Nonsense. in fact it is so ridiculous I now fear you were trolling....

Messi,Ronaldo only the best 2

[Govnar1]

Ball that is supposed to hit the woodwork often goes a meter behind the frame before it bounces off air, it looks hilarious. I can provide examples if this is not logged already.

[Äktsjon Männ]

So how about some real quality feedback or do I have to be like Fabio and find out without paying.

I don't see why you shouldn't, that's what the demo is for after all.

[Herbert Fandel]

Messi,Ronaldo only the best 2

What about Zidane, Rui Costa, Maldini, Bobby Moore, etc etc etc.

They were undoubted greats but I would have fancied my chances against them over 100m.

Thinking that football begins and ends with those two is wrong

[milnerpoint]

Ok, I've returned to look at the latest release and reading this forum doesn't help me at all.

Granted I will say I think Milner has a point, after looking through the bug forum there is very little major threads referring to the issues people are complaining about here, so makes me think they are being haters in many cases.

But at the same time milner, wwfan, and the other supporters.. while offering some tactical advise.. don't give any specifics of what they think are the flaws. I've seen the supporters all say there are flaws but only PaulC has stated any of them from the supporter camp. So if you guys are saying that others are just being overly harsh and the game is good but has problems, tell me what the problems YOU see are so I have something to worth with.

As it is you got two sides, one screaming how broken it is and the other saying its not broken just a few minor bugs that you don't specify. Without the supporters giving more feedback then I'm left thinking there is no credibility on either side. Granted I've had many a discussion with the supporters in the past and can trust them to a degree, but with a completely revamped ME I want some quality feedback not just tactics advice that I've seen in the past when I've known there were ME bugs.

So I think both sides could be better in how they are reacting. But I bring this up because I'm honestly trying to decide if I should give SI my money again. I'm wanting to play some more FM but I can't trust the product form past experience especially with a total revamp. Some of the new changes/features sound nice to me but if the ME is more broken then its been before I'm not giving them any money.

So how about some real quality feedback or do I have to be like Fabio and find out without paying.

Here's three ive given, i've given more, but i cant be bothered searching for them.

From my point of view the ME still needs work in a pressing sense, and in a defensive line sense, i still think the defense sits too deep, or the midfield sits too deep which leads to a lot of what appears to be good one touch passing, most of it isnt, its just the players have a lot of room so are able to play alot of passes without being pressured enough, once that is tweaked a bit more this will be a fantastic ME, it looks better and it offers far more in the way of real football. A few tweaks here and there and no one will remember the 15th or so edition FM12 ME.

That is the biggest issue you need to resolve, as the real life stats show the tackles are not that far off ( i had to be shown real life stats to believe it myself btw ) but the lack of urgency closing players down makes it seem like the defense is not doing enough.

I've played a season now since the update, pressing is my only real issue with the ME, i thankfully havent come across many big bugs, a few keeper errors but i expect that, i dont use short keeper distribution so i dont notice any problem there may be in that respect. Pressing is my only real issue, players just dont press enough for me, if they sorted that out come friday i'd be a happy chappy. I think it would also help solve the issue of seeing your midfield play a hundred short passes across the middle of the park.

[alexcati]

Im not speaking about 80s.Im speaking about football that is now.You are poor mate.But gl

[Cas46]

I adore the layout of the game but the match engine is awful, players nor indeed tactics have any bearings on a result. It just seems so randomized to me. Ive even tested world class players in League One and they struggle to get a result.

I agree, I want to love the game as every year but some of the things you see in the matches just make the game impossible to take seriously. There are levitating players, players who just let the ball past them like they're zombies or the same with opposing players, massively loopy shots, keepers not noticing shots going straight through them etc.

[Äktsjon Männ]

If you don't share specifics nobody can help you. Like tactical instructions and pkms. Because obviously it isn't universally broken like it was before.

Not looking for help here. I'm not even playing 13. Tried the demo out for a number of matches this weekend and decided not to bother until a significant improvement is made to the ME. For what it's worth I could get the keeper to pass it short but it required a slower and deeper overall approach. The problem, as I was trying to imply, is that while it isn't 'universally broken', it doesn't universally work either, which it should. Anyway, my biggest gripe with GK's is as I mentioned the lack of accuracy in their mid- to long range distribution, which forces me into setting it short in the first place. Which is ideally something I wouldn't like to do at all.

[avex]

Messi,Ronaldo only the best 2

Andres Iniesta, freaking slow.

[Emmeth]

I repeat the question because it has fallen unanswered.

The patch told to be probably released within November, will it fix also other aspects or only the ME ?

Thanks again

[Fabio MVP]

Im not speaking about 80s.Im speaking about football that is now.You are poor mate.But gl

Pretty sure 3 out of 4 that he named weren't on their peak in the 80s.

[Morlio18]

My goalkeeper has just kicked the ball to the centre back (stupid in itself) who was 5 yards away from him. My centre back carried on walking away and their striker has ran 50 yards and got to the ball before both of them and scored.....possibly the final straw.

[Neil Brock]

Ball that is supposed to hit the woodwork often goes a meter behind the frame before it bounces off air, it looks hilarious. I can provide examples if this is not logged already.

Are you sure it's not just coming off the netting? Yeah raise it in the match engine bugs forum with examples please - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/296-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

[lukair]

This is one of the many strange things that happen with the ME and the tactics module. You can't always have proper players to make the tacklings or be aggresive. That's why I'm the manager. I should be able to INSTRUCT them to tackle, even though they don't have the proper stats for it. I should be able to INSTRUCT them to pressure and be aggresive even though they don't have the proper stats.

Players should be doing, more or less, what I tell them and if they are not proper for the job, the team should pay the price. No manager in the world gives a player an instruction to do something and when that player refuses tells him "oh, jeez, you are not good enough to do that. Good call disobeying my instructions."

You nailed it. In fact this problem is dragging after this game since the new tactical system (the software programing) was introduced. The question should never be, whether you are RIGHT to give that or any other instruction, it should be whether the player is following those instructions to whatever capacity he is able to. If I tell a player with creativity and passing "1" to play through balls all the time, that's what he ought to do, even though out of 20 attempts, 20 will go out of bounds. This is the proper implementation of tactical system.

AFTER THAT it should be discussed whether you are right in giving that or that order, but not prior. Nowadays it seems that if the engine does not show what you order players to do, it means either "you're wrong" or "the match engine knows better".

I've raised an issue that deals exaclty with this in my thread couple years back, and it's exactly the reason I do not play new Football manager, cause the attitude changed.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/160744-This-is-weird...-(Side-Back-pushing-forward-when-he-shouldn-t)

When I feel I'm being cheeted by the game, when I see tha team/players are not following my instructions, then what this game is all about? Aren't I suppose to be the manager here and set up the tactics, the team/players should follow? If not, then sorry, but this is not what I signed up for.

Look at the screenshots versus 06 and tell me which looks more natural in your opinion.

The question is not which one looks more natural. This is the wrong question.

The right question is "which screenshots show the behaviour of players who are following my instructions, (even if they are stupid), and which one doesn't". That's the right and should be the only question here.

So lets see:

a) mentality 1 - my player should be as deffensive as he can possibly be, doing everything with a lot of caution and even more, staying very far back

b) no forward runs - player should make no forward runs whatsoever

c) creative freedom 1 - player should follow my instructions at all times

And lets look at 2 screens.

1) FM2006 screen:

2) FM2010 screen:

The question: Which screen show better understanding by my side backs of the instructions that I gave them ? Screen 1, or screen 2 ?

I will go further. Because of that, FM2006 allows me more freedom and if we'll look only at this one single issue, it is the better game. I can easily do in FM2006 what you showed in your screenshots(side backs pushing forward). All I have to do is give them forward runs mixed, that way they will still get forward, but with mentality 1 they will keep in mind that they can't risk a lot, so they will push forward whenever there is very small danger that comes from doing that.

In that regard FM2006(probably other versions as well) beats FM2010 by a mile. It gives me a freedom to do what I want to do and they are doing exactly what I order them to do.

[baros2011]

I've read a lot of stuff on this thread, and tried to get into games myhself but the bottom line is - the game is not good. The match engine is broken. It's not about tactics, its about the way players react to certain situations. Every couple of games, my keeper (Pepe Reina, not some novice) throws one in or lets a cross in or something stupid. Everything just feels so, so random. When defending counter attacks my defenders just stop momentarily and let the attackers walk through. The amount of times the ball hits the back of players is laughable.

I, like many people on here, have played the game since CM3 but this game is just bad. It feels random. Tactical changes never seem to manifest themselves in the Match Engine like in previous versions. The game is just broken. I'm not using tactics tht worked particularly well in other versions, I'm not using downloaded tactics, the Match Engine is'nt working.

Random is how I'd decribe the match engine. And random ain't good.

[Fabio MVP]

Are you sure it's not just coming off the netting? Yeah raise it in the match engine bugs forum with examples please - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/296-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

Had this happened couple of times. It bounces off in a sharp angle and quite rapidly, so it's just like it hit the bar. But, all the time I thought it hit that back bar that holds the net.

[Martyr1777]

Here's three ive given, i've given more, but i cant be bothered searching for them.

Fair enough I didn't read the whole thread so I missed those. Not sure i like the idea of pressing not being up to speed but if that's it (which I know I wouldn't agree with) its not terrible. Just know that past editions have had loads of trouble witht he defensive line behaving stupidly and just the ME representing the tale of two teams (quality pro vs sunday league) based on if the team was going to win or not.

As for playing the demo.. yeah demos are not made to be truely objective. But i might try it.