Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[Matej]

5 hours ago, makavali said:

Lower league management is stupidly easy this year. I found the Latvian League so easy I almost uninstalled the game. 

Doing a save in the big leagues now and it's way better in terms of difficulty. I hope it will be somehow addressed, as it's impossible to do a half-enjoyable save outside of the top 7 European leagues. Anyone who's denying it or is trying to find some kind of a logical explanation for the success is delusional 

I agree with you that Premiership is harder 2 beat. But maybe 10 -20 %. Im playin FM for many years, I had great success with lets say Sheffield Wednesday, won Premiership in  4-5 seasons. 

[Matej]

11 hours ago, Kevinho7 said:

 

It’s far from playing the control possession preset tho.
Standard passing lenght, higher tempo, counter, counter press, high press, high line and more often pressing. 

These are all the ingredients to get almost any tactic working on this game unfortunately. Your tactic looks well distributed in terms of roles and duties. So yeah, coupled with those ti’s it’s almost always the winning formula. Particularly anoying how using a higher tempo always let’s you outperform, no matter your team’s quality. 😅 It defo shouldn’t be quite this easy… 🤷🏻‍♂️

I agree with you. I add my own things how my team should play and what i think its good plan.  But still my question is.. 

Whats so good with my formation that AI with much better squad is dominated by my team and do you agree that if  AI  play similiar formation and tactic as mine, but with much better players, they should have much better chance to beat my team? 

Can they put this instructions to AI teams? To play High press etc? And when i play against AI teams with their much better squads, then AI should crush me. But that doesnt happen. WHY? Why  if this is just simulation and they dont give edge to human players? Why this most important question is never answered?  

Ty.

 

[stevemc]

Meet 18-year-old Ron Peretz, currently plying his trade in Israel on his measly £200 p/w contract - agent says he wants a massive increase to £60-72k p/w - after negotiations he wouldn't actually go less than £90,000 p/w:

 

But look, signs for PSV for just £31,000 p/w:

 

My issues with this are:
1. Why would an 18 year old player on £200 think it's acceptable to want an insane wage jump to £60-72K p/w?
2. How the hell did PSV get him to negotiate on £31,000 p/w when the lowest he'd settle with me was £90,000 p/w?

3. Why is the agent wage quote of £60-72K p/w still so far off the £90K he actually wanted?

 

This has been going on for multiple FMs, but I just don't think it's realistic, he doesn't have to sign for me, that's fine - but why the vast difference in salaries and negotiations...

 

Edited February 19 by stevemc

[Socerer 01]

1 hour ago, stevemc said:

Meet 18-year-old Ron Peretz, currently plying his trade in Israel on his measly £200 p/w contract - agent says he wants a massive increase to £60-72k p/w - after negotiations he wouldn't actually go less than £90,000 p/w:

 

But look, signs for PSV for just £31,000 p/w:

 

My issues with this are:
1. Why would an 18 year old player on £200 think it's acceptable to want an insane wage jump to £60-72K p/w?
2. How the hell did PSV get him to negotiate on £31,000 p/w when the lowest he'd settle with me was £90,000 p/w?

3. Why is the agent wage quote of £60-72K p/w still so far off the £90K he actually wanted?

 

This has been going on for multiple FMs, but I just don't think it's realistic, he doesn't have to sign for me, that's fine - but why the vast difference in salaries and negotiations...

 

This is such a pet peeve of mine, the AI not playing by the same rules as the human managers off the field. 
 

My own gripe with this relates to managerial appointments. For the love of god, can this abominable statement “failing to shortlist you because of your complete lack of experience in winning league titles” be binned from the game or at least be applied to clubs that have won a league title in the last 5 or even 10 years? It’s one thing for Man City or Real Madrid to say this but it’s downright hilarious when the likes of Newcastle who haven’t won a top division title in nearly a century or Tottenham who haven’t done so in over fifty years say this. They don’t follow any such process IRL because it’s completely unrealistic. 
 

But hey, if you’re going to have such requirements then at least have the requirement apply to the AI too. In my current save I’ve been rejected by nearly all of the top clubs citing this as a factor when I’ve taken West Ham to a FA Cup final, league runners-up spot and won a Conference League trophy. Any young English manager who takes a club from a relegation spot to European football in two seasons along with a title challenge, cup finals and a trophy will at least get interviews or clubs pursuing them. Instead, I’ve never been shortlisted after applying for any top level job due to that requirement and I’ve never had any club pursue me or offer me any role. 
 

Instead I’ve seen Man Utd appoint Tony Mowbray whose only PL experience if I’m correct is in that solitary season where West Brom got relegated after promotion and then sack him a few months later with the club in relegation spots to appoint Thiago Motta whose only achievement of note was finishing fifth with Bologna and taking them to the Champions League. Arsenal in my save have meanwhile appointed Vincenzo Italiano whose achievements are the exact replica of mine in this save but hasn’t even won that European trophy I did. Chelsea are now about to appoint Gattuso whose sole managerial trophy is that Coppa Italia with Napoli. The former have finished 9th and 12th while the latter have finished in 7th in the two seasons I’ve played. No doubt once Motta gets sacked because they’re still in mid table Man Utd will not shortlist me because I lack league winning experience and instead appoint another manager from the Championship who won that division ages ago. Or maybe they’ll finally appoint Rooney like the in game media wishes them to? 
 

EDIT: A club finally accepts my application in Lazio and they still stress that they have strong reservations over my suitability because of my complete lack of experience in winning league titles. FFS you’ve won only two league titles in your club’s history and the last one was a quarter of a century ago, how delusional can you be while you’re struggling to qualify for Champions League football in the last two seasons? 

Edited February 19 by Socerer 01

[kiwityke1983]

I came across one of my own personal pet peeve immersion destroyers yesterday.

That of media clairvoyance.

My tactic employes a single Advanced forward.

I have 4 strikers in my squad.

2 players who are my first choices, a third who was first choice but went to Afcon and injured himself for 6 months massively declined and has a future transfer out already organised as a result and the fourth a 1.1 million pound punt who was purely signed because he was cheap and helped fill the champs league quotas.

All 4 can in theory play as an advanced forward but the 1.1 million pound player is a better fit as a false 9 IMO.

Towards the end of September the first 3 strikers get injured so I'm forced to use the fourth choice lad.

He's not performing as an advanced forward.

So in-between matches I tinker with the tactic slightly so he can play as a false 9 and change some midfielders attacking/support instructions and some of the global TI's.

The shape of the tactic is exactly the same. Hell it's the same starting 11 from the previous match.

Tunnel interview question along the lines of - "what's the thinking behind this new tactical approach you are taking today?"

PRE-MATCH how the hell does the journo know I've changed roles and tactical instructions within a tactical shape without first seeing us kick a ball!!!

[kiwityke1983]

11 hours ago, stevemc said:

Meet 18-year-old Ron Peretz, currently plying his trade in Israel on his measly £200 p/w contract - agent says he wants a massive increase to £60-72k p/w - after negotiations he wouldn't actually go less than £90,000 p/w:

 

But look, signs for PSV for just £31,000 p/w:

 

My issues with this are:
1. Why would an 18 year old player on £200 think it's acceptable to want an insane wage jump to £60-72K p/w?
2. How the hell did PSV get him to negotiate on £31,000 p/w when the lowest he'd settle with me was £90,000 p/w?

3. Why is the agent wage quote of £60-72K p/w still so far off the £90K he actually wanted?

 

This has been going on for multiple FMs, but I just don't think it's realistic, he doesn't have to sign for me, that's fine - but why the vast difference in salaries and negotiations...

 

One of my biggest pet peeves in FM is when you are doing an LLM save and you find the perfect free transfer.

Nobody has wanted him for 18 months he's sat there at home twiddling his thumbs waiting for a phone call but nobodies interested.

You bring him in on trial and yes the scouts were right he's perfect.

You offer a contract and hit contine.

You see the dreaded notification "Dorking and 17 other clubs have offered Perfect player a contract", magically from nowhere every club in the lower reaches of football has discovered this player whose been a free agent for a year and a half because you made an offer.

He ends up signing for a team in a lower league for less money than you offered!

Who then proceed to never play him and he's a free agent within 12 months, and retires at 26.

If I had a pound for every time this has happened to me over the years I'd probably control 98% of the UK's monetary supply.

[NineCloudNine]

13 hours ago, stevemc said:

My issues with this are:

1. Why would an 18 year old player on £200 think it's acceptable to want an insane wage jump to £60-72K p/w?
2. How the hell did PSV get him to negotiate on £31,000 p/w when the lowest he'd settle with me was £90,000 p/w?

3. Why is the agent wage quote of £60-72K p/w still so far off the £90K he actually wanted?

This has been going on for multiple FMs, but I just don't think it's realistic, he doesn't have to sign for me, that's fine - but why the vast difference in salaries and negotiations...

 

This is largely based on your club & league reputation. The agent is demanding what they see as a reasonable wage for your club/league. Since PSV (or Feyenoord - which is what it says in the screenshot!) have a lower reputation and play in a lower reputation league, they are not expected to pay as much.

The module logic treats each club discussion as a separate negotiation event and doesn’t seem to “know” that your offer, while lower than the agent demanded, is higher than PSV’s. It makes no sense and is an example of the crude use of reputation throughout the game.

As you say it has been like this for years so I assume SI either don’t see a problem or (I actually think this is more likely) don’t know how to solve it since reputation is so deeply embedded in the game that it can’t be easily changed.

Edited February 20 by NineCloudNine

[DolphinSpain]

3 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

This is largely based on your club & league reputation. The agent is demanding what they see as a reasonable wage for your club/league. Since PSV (or Feyenoord - which is what it says in the screenshot!) have a lower reputation and play in a lower reputation league, they are not expected to pay as much.

The module logic treats each club discussion as a separate negotiation event and doesn’t seem to “know” that your offer, while lower than the agent demanded, is higher than PSV’s. It makes no sense and is an example of the crude use of reputation throughout the game.

As you say it has been like this for years so I assume SI either don’t see a problem or (I actually think this is more likely) don’t know how to solve it since reputation is so deeply embedded in the game that it can’t be easily changed.

If this is truly how it works, it's wild! What an abomination of a transfer system.

[NineCloudNine]

16 minutes ago, DolphinSpain said:

If this is truly how it works, it's wild! What an abomination of a transfer system.

There is more to it. The player might be offered more playing time elsewhere. In this case the agent dislikes the manager, which doesn’t help. The player’s ambition, his CA and his PA all matter, as does the personality of the agent.

But all these are overwhelmed by reputation. This is also why your players are keen to sign for a “bigger” club in the middle of the season even when you are three time defending champions and 20 points ahead in the league.

Edited February 20 by NineCloudNine

[Costav]

16 hours ago, stevemc said:

Meet 18-year-old Ron Peretz, currently plying his trade in Israel on his measly £200 p/w contract - agent says he wants a massive increase to £60-72k p/w - after negotiations he wouldn't actually go less than £90,000 p/w:

 

But look, signs for PSV for just £31,000 p/w:

 

My issues with this are:
1. Why would an 18 year old player on £200 think it's acceptable to want an insane wage jump to £60-72K p/w?
2. How the hell did PSV get him to negotiate on £31,000 p/w when the lowest he'd settle with me was £90,000 p/w?

3. Why is the agent wage quote of £60-72K p/w still so far off the £90K he actually wanted?

 

This has been going on for multiple FMs, but I just don't think it's realistic, he doesn't have to sign for me, that's fine - but why the vast difference in salaries and negotiations...

 

In which UEFA competition are you qualified? Which competition Feyenoord plays? Not everything can be related only to reputation. At the end, it is possible that they wanted to earn more and then, when they received the offer, they were satisfied with the offer to Feyenoord because of other clauses or promises. You may have assumed that some of the adds-in requested were not interesting for you, and the negotiation went toward an higher request in the base salary.
Sometimes it happens in real life too..
Did you make an offer for the player or you just assumed that, being the demand too high, you would not have been able to (or did not want to) match it? Most of the time, when you make a contract offer for a player and the payer choose another team, the message explains you why he took that decision

[Zoolok42]

33 minutes ago, DolphinSpain said:

If this is truly how it works, it's wild! What an abomination of a transfer system.

It's not an abomination. As an employee, you want to get the best terms you think each possible future employer can offer you, when all factors are taken into consideration. Why is it an abomination?

[RDF Tactics]

2 hours ago, Zoolok42 said:

It's not an abomination. As an employee, you want to get the best terms you think each possible future employer can offer you, when all factors are taken into consideration. Why is it an abomination?

Then, why would you go to someone who's offering half of what you are offering? lol running purely on reputation and not on feel doesn't give you that authentic touch in the transfer system. You can be 20 points ahead about to win a historic title but the player does not recognise that. He will straight up tell you "I want to go Man City for a bigger chance of winning the title" or "I want to go Man City to play in UCL"....all while you are 1st, 20 points ahead and City can be 5th/6th/7th it doesn't matter.

Players making decisions over basically numbers in-game (reputation) and not being able to read the game is one thing I think Football Manager can improve a lot with.

Or make some of the interactions actually work more often. "We are in a good position to win the league and play UCL next season, which is what you want. Stay till the end of the season and see how you feel". Things like that, will allow the player to recognise the position he and the club are in and where the targeted team wants him.

Many of these transfers do happen in the summer. Whether its a Caicedo, Cucurella, Bissouma, Mac Allister....Toney looks like he has to wait and understands that Brentford don't want to sell mid-season. It should be the most difficult time to actually buy someone. I'm not sure how often it is players make that bigger move mid-season while the club they're at are doing really well.

[DolphinSpain]

2 hours ago, Zoolok42 said:

It's not an abomination. As an employee, you want to get the best terms you think each possible future employer can offer you, when all factors are taken into consideration. Why is it an abomination?

When you are in a higher league and you are offering a wage which is only 20 pounds off what the player requires and he rejects it to go to a team in a lower league for almost half of what you offered, it's more than ridiculous. This happened frequently during a recent save with Banbury United in England. 

[RDF Tactics]

1 minute ago, DolphinSpain said:

When you are in a higher league and you are offering a wage which is only 20 pounds off what the player requires and he rejects it to go to a team in a lower league for almost half of what you offered, it's more than ridiculous. This happened frequently during a recent save with Banbury United in England. 

I had a famous meltdown on stream when a Brazilian RB chose to go to Middlesbrough who were stuck in the Championship for less money...Over AFC Wimbledon who were already in Europa League. I offered a lot more money and the first team.

You'll never guess what happened once the season started. Middlesbrough put him on the loan list. They didn't even give him a regular starter status lol. But, my reputation at that time still probably hadn't taken over Middlesbrough's.

The player should be able to read the game and know where Middlesbrough are and where I was. The meltdown was because it happened time and time again and I offered the player such a non-sensical contract just to prove he'll still join the championship lol

Players need to be aware of what's happening in game.

[DolphinSpain]

1 minute ago, RDF Tactics said:

I had a famous meltdown on stream when a Brazilian RB chose to go to Middlesbrough who were stuck in the Championship for less money...Over AFC Wimbledon who were already in Europa League. I offered a lot more money and the first team.

You'll never guess what happened once the season started. Middlesbrough put him on the loan list. They didn't even give him a regular starter status lol. But, my reputation at that time still probably hadn't taken over Middlesbrough's.

The player should be able to read the game and know where Middlesbrough are and where I was. The meltdown was because it happened time and time again and I offered the player such a non-sensical contract just to prove he'll still join the championship lol

Players need to be aware of what's happening in game.

Absolutely, the game I am referring to my reputation had grown and the teams stealing the players from me had only just been promoted to the National Leagues, but I wasn't able to compete with them when it came to being an attractive prospect. It was surreal!

[NineCloudNine]

10 minutes ago, DolphinSpain said:

Absolutely, the game I am referring to my reputation had grown and the teams stealing the players from me had only just been promoted to the National Leagues, but I wasn't able to compete with them when it came to being an attractive prospect. It was surreal!

Players choosing “bigger” clubs or leagues is not in itself a problem. Leicester’s title-winning team was dismantled. Players move to City to warm their bench.

And FM does get a lot of this right. Young players will turn down moves if it isn’t right for their development.

But as said above, FM does also offer up some mad stuff. I had Gianluca Mancini kick off at not being allowed to move to Juventus when the Roma team he was in were 21 points ahead of them in January and cruising to Roma’s first title in 23 years. But Juve were in the Champions League! And of course half the team were outraged that I refused to let our best defender leave mid-season.

Reputation is important in football but it is too crudely important in FM. And it doesn’t change fast enough. I was still losing players from Roma after 3 Serie A titles and 2 CL’s in a five year stretch. It’s like those wins never happened. 

[El Payaso]

21 hours ago, Matej said:

Whats so good with my formation that AI with much better squad is dominated by my team and do you agree that if  AI  play similiar formation and tactic as mine, but with much better players, they should have much better chance to beat my team? 

The main things seems to be that Dr Benjy and other Youtubers doing everything wrong and watching key highlights while talking about something else will still perform better than AI Guardiola and Klopp. Because that is what sells, I guess. 

[Rodrigogc]

18 minutos atrás, Litmanen 10 disse:

The main things seems to be that Dr Benjy and other Youtubers doing everything wrong and watching key highlights while talking about something else will still perform better than AI Guardiola and Klopp. Because that is what sells, I guess. 

AI Guardiola is even worse, sacked in many saves because possession football doesn't work properly in FM. Bizarre. The man is literally the best manager in the world, but in the FM world he is just like the average manager. 

[DolphinSpain]

43 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

Players choosing “bigger” clubs or leagues is not in itself a problem. Leicester’s title-winning team was dismantled. Players move to City to warm their bench.

And FM does get a lot of this right. Young players will turn down moves if it isn’t right for their development.

But as said above, FM does also offer up some mad stuff. I had Gianluca Mancini kick off at not being allowed to move to Juventus when the Roma team he was in were 21 points ahead of them in January and cruising to Roma’s first title in 23 years. But Juve were in the Champions League! And of course half the team were outraged that I refused to let our best defender leave mid-season.

Reputation is important in football but it is too crudely important in FM. And it doesn’t change fast enough. I was still losing players from Roma after 3 Serie A titles and 2 CL’s in a five year stretch. It’s like those wins never happened. 

You are giving FM far more credit than it deserves here. 

[RDF Tactics]

32 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

Players choosing “bigger” clubs or leagues is not in itself a problem. Leicester’s title-winning team was dismantled. Players move to City to warm their bench.

And FM does get a lot of this right. Young players will turn down moves if it isn’t right for their development.

But as said above, FM does also offer up some mad stuff. I had Gianluca Mancini kick off at not being allowed to move to Juventus when the Roma team he was in were 21 points ahead of them in January and cruising to Roma’s first title in 23 years. But Juve were in the Champions League! And of course half the team were outraged that I refused to let our best defender leave mid-season.

Reputation is important in football but it is too crudely important in FM. And it doesn’t change fast enough. I was still losing players from Roma after 3 Serie A titles and 2 CL’s in a five year stretch. It’s like those wins never happened. 

The timing is an issue, that's the only thing. The Leicester title-winning team was dismantled after the season had finished (I don't think Mahrez was a bench warmer lol a lot more than that). The only big name that did "flop" was Danny Drinkwater.

But in FM, what would happen is that Man City want Mahrez. He wants to leave. You say no. His morale drops. And then other players' morale can drop for "unfair treatment". That is not right when you are top of the table etc etc.

That's why I think interactions should be VERY important moving forward and the response to those interactions should be a lot more realistic. I should be able to keep Mahrez somewhat happy to play for me until the summer while we are challenging for the title. Morale affects performance. Having several players unhappy because you turning down a mid-season offer while you're doing incredibly well is a bit wild.

Just any way you can trigger the player's thinking and make him look at the current situation. "I agree. It would be foolish to leave during our title race. I may want to reconsider my options in the summer, though. Man UFC are a huge club and I would like to be apart of their history".

Imo, that makes the pill a lot easier to swallow. As a coach, that's very understandable.

[RDF Tactics]

35 minutes ago, Litmanen 10 said:

The main things seems to be that Dr Benjy and other Youtubers doing everything wrong and watching key highlights while talking about something else will still perform better than AI Guardiola and Klopp. Because that is what sells, I guess. 

The only thing that bugs me about these comments is that you can literally play FM the way you want. Let's be TOTALLY real with ourselves. Throwing in a pair of aggressive wingbacks, no DMs on defend (or no DMs), two IFs and AF. You know these are overly aggressive and in theory, should leave you exposed. But, people will use these combinations because they feel safe in the results it will give. But, then will complain it's too easy.

On the flip side, people will try and play more reserved but won't have the patience to stick with it/figure out what is actually wrong and then complain that high pressing is the only way. This has been echoed here many times and it's not really true.

I can't speak on other content creators but what I can say is that they are content creators. A lot of that is about yourself and your personality - depending on your content. Most content creators aren't watched because they are giving out tactical tutorials every video. They're great personalities and storytellers. Their personality sells. And they need to earn because it's their job lol. And I don't think it's wise to somewhat criticise creators who have introduced FM to thousands of people.

Same way. There are some great tactical minds like Daljit and threads on here so the balance is there.

Edited February 20 by RDF Tactics

[Iakovenko]

20 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

The timing is an issue, that's the only thing. The Leicester title-winning team was dismantled after the season had finished (I don't think Mahrez was a bench warmer lol a lot more than that). The only big name that did "flop" was Danny Drinkwater.

But in FM, what would happen is that Man City want Mahrez. He wants to leave. You say no. His morale drops. And then other players' morale can drop for "unfair treatment". That is not right when you are top of the table etc etc.

That's why I think interactions should be VERY important moving forward and the response to those interactions should be a lot more realistic. I should be able to keep Mahrez somewhat happy to play for me until the summer while we are challenging for the title. Morale affects performance. Having several players unhappy because you turning down a mid-season offer while you're doing incredibly well is a bit wild.

Just any way you can trigger the player's thinking and make him look at the current situation. "I agree. It would be foolish to leave during our title race. I may want to reconsider my options in the summer, though. Man UFC are a huge club and I would like to be apart of their history".

Imo, that makes the pill a lot easier to swallow. As a coach, that's very understandable.

I could've done with something that triggered a player's thinking of "You're right, they are on course to get less points than Derby and we are on course for a record points haul in the championship, maybe I can wait half a season to play in the prem"

 

 

[Kevinho7]

1 hour ago, Litmanen 10 said:

The main things seems to be that Dr Benjy and other Youtubers doing everything wrong and watching key highlights while talking about something else will still perform better than AI Guardiola and Klopp. Because that is what sells, I guess. 

Completely off topic here, but everytime i see your username passing by i just get a good feeling 😂

Jari Litmanen, my all time IDOL since i was a young kid going to the old Ajax stadium De Meer in our glory years! 🙏🏻

[Rodrigogc]

Inter Milan x Atletico Madrid today..

I think FM24 Match Engine will hate this match.

[LucasBR]

I don’t know how a game development works but I truly believe a game like Football Manager would benefit a lot from guys like @RDF Tactics and others, their reading and knowledge of the game is great.

 

[Matej]

4 hours ago, Litmanen 10 said:

The main things seems to be that Dr Benjy and other Youtubers doing everything wrong and watching key highlights while talking about something else will still perform better than AI Guardiola and Klopp. Because that is what sells, I guess. 

Thats what i dislike about FM. They go for quantity not quality. They give you 100 leagues to play, but AI with Klopp or Guardiola play like noobs. I prefer tight game, they should focus on AI managers. Some tactic like high press or high tempo dominate the game? Give that tool to AI managers.

Like i said, i have 3 times worse players then Guardiola, but i dominate against Man city. Its unrealistic and i dont feel joy at all. 

Put that in real life, lets say someone is genious tactitian. He still need superb players if he wants to beat Man city or Liverpool. Even then it should be tight games most of the times.

[Matej]

2 hours ago, LucasBR said:

I don’t know how a game development works but I truly believe a game like Football Manager would benefit a lot from guys like @RDF Tactics and others, their reading and knowledge of the game is great.

 

They did hire few people who understand how game works, and had great articles about Fm. 

But somehow  these guys turn into zombies or they dont have influence on AI squads. How hard can it be to put into Ai managers skillset to play high press and high tempo? 

 

[endtime]

FM is primarily made for casual players, people who manage Man City or Newcastle, use downloaded tactics and premade wonderkid shortlists, not for obsessives with 15+ years of experience and a FIFA coaching licence who will spend hours tweaking their libero's instructions to achieve perfect movement and passing in the zona mista or whatever. 

[Nick_CB]

Season 24-25
Guardiola (Manchester City)

 I decided to only include a few matches so as not to pollute the topic. But these statistics are repeated with many other teams around the world on FM 24.
 The example of M.City is even more chaotic, because it is inconceivable in a real Football Simulator Game for Guardiola's M.City to have half or less than half of the passes than an inferior team.
FM 24's ME is not broken, but unfortunately it does not reflect current football.

 

[dℍaisa]

59 minutes ago, endtime said:

FM is primarily made for casual players, people who manage Man City or Newcastle, use downloaded tactics and premade wonderkid shortlists, not for obsessives with 15+ years of experience and a FIFA coaching licence who will spend hours tweaking their libero's instructions to achieve perfect movement and passing in the zona mista or whatever. 

Good, then maybe add this in the game's description! 

[Eoin Maguire]

5 hours ago, Rodrigogc said:

Inter Milan x Atletico Madrid today..

I think FM24 Match Engine will hate this match.

So did I when I decided to watch it 🥹

[glenjamin]

What is with penalties in this game?! I've missed four in a row with players of high penalty taking attitudes against poor keepers who have low morale. Ridiculous. 

[janrzm]

19 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I came across one of my own personal pet peeve immersion destroyers yesterday.

That of media clairvoyance.

My tactic employes a single Advanced forward.

I have 4 strikers in my squad.

2 players who are my first choices, a third who was first choice but went to Afcon and injured himself for 6 months massively declined and has a future transfer out already organised as a result and the fourth a 1.1 million pound punt who was purely signed because he was cheap and helped fill the champs league quotas.

All 4 can in theory play as an advanced forward but the 1.1 million pound player is a better fit as a false 9 IMO.

Towards the end of September the first 3 strikers get injured so I'm forced to use the fourth choice lad.

He's not performing as an advanced forward.

So in-between matches I tinker with the tactic slightly so he can play as a false 9 and change some midfielders attacking/support instructions and some of the global TI's.

The shape of the tactic is exactly the same. Hell it's the same starting 11 from the previous match.

Tunnel interview question along the lines of - "what's the thinking behind this new tactical approach you are taking today?"

PRE-MATCH how the hell does the journo know I've changed roles and tactical instructions within a tactical shape without first seeing us kick a ball!!!

Clearly, one of your coaches has 20 for the hidden attribute "Leaks to Press" 

[Aoyao]

On 02/01/2024 at 23:20, Jack Sarahs said:

Hi @DolphinSpain

I wrote a brief explanation for "step up" / "drop off" in a thread last year.

Hopefully this helps!
 

 

What about pressing trap?

Traps don’t affect your width, they affect the body positioning of your players opening up angles. So a trap outside encourages players to show opposition towards the flanks. And then with the right roles and duties you could try winning the ball there. 
 

I find it more effective to use OIs to identify specific players to target and then apply things like show feet to show them away and hard tackle to make it harder for someone to dictate play.

Stop and Invite crosses do have the effect of adjusting your defensive width.

 

[kiwityke1983]

11 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

The timing is an issue, that's the only thing. The Leicester title-winning team was dismantled after the season had finished (I don't think Mahrez was a bench warmer lol a lot more than that). The only big name that did "flop" was Danny Drinkwater.

But in FM, what would happen is that Man City want Mahrez. He wants to leave. You say no. His morale drops. And then other players' morale can drop for "unfair treatment". That is not right when you are top of the table etc etc.

That's why I think interactions should be VERY important moving forward and the response to those interactions should be a lot more realistic. I should be able to keep Mahrez somewhat happy to play for me until the summer while we are challenging for the title. Morale affects performance. Having several players unhappy because you turning down a mid-season offer while you're doing incredibly well is a bit wild.

Just any way you can trigger the player's thinking and make him look at the current situation. "I agree. It would be foolish to leave during our title race. I may want to reconsider my options in the summer, though. Man UFC are a huge club and I would like to be apart of their history".

Imo, that makes the pill a lot easier to swallow. As a coach, that's very understandable.

Currently the only somewhat viable way of doing this in FM is to tell the player the team he wants to move to aren't offering enough money.

99% of the time they accept that, then just hope the club he wants to move to doesn't offer enough and eventually the player will drop the concern.

But it feels incredibly gamey rather than realistic to do this.

[Socerer 01]

Speaking of interactions....

 

 

Least passive aggressive interaction sequence in FM. Can we get a rework of every interaction in the game along with the move to Unity to make them sound more human at least?

[RDF Tactics]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Currently the only somewhat viable way of doing this in FM is to tell the player the team he wants to move to aren't offering enough money.

99% of the time they accept that, then just hope the club he wants to move to doesn't offer enough and eventually the player will drop the concern.

But it feels incredibly gamey rather than realistic to do this.

Exactly this.

now I don’t have any long term saves atm. I just can’t get into it. But I do many many 1 seasons for tactical stuff.

EVERY tests it happens where a player wants to leave. I reject offers he gets upset and only thing that works is saying they didn’t offer enough money and you get the option to say what is the right sum, then you and play try to negotiate the highest value.

when you’re clubs like West Ham and Villa, it even happened at Inter, where players want to go to Saudi to move to “a bigger club” which isn’t right. They’re richer, not bigger. If the player recognised that, the option for me to then say I can offer you more wages should be a thing that works.

things like that are in incredibly frustrating which makes it hard for me to get into saves. Immersion can be ruined by thing it shouldn’t be

[NineCloudNine]

51 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

Exactly this.

now I don’t have any long term saves atm. I just can’t get into it. But I do many many 1 seasons for tactical stuff.

EVERY tests it happens where a player wants to leave. I reject offers he gets upset and only thing that works is saying they didn’t offer enough money and you get the option to say what is the right sum, then you and play try to negotiate the highest value.

when you’re clubs like West Ham and Villa, it even happened at Inter, where players want to go to Saudi to move to “a bigger club” which isn’t right. They’re richer, not bigger. If the player recognised that, the option for me to then say I can offer you more wages should be a thing that works.

things like that are in incredibly frustrating which makes it hard for me to get into saves. Immersion can be ruined by thing it shouldn’t be

When I get a really silly tantrum combined with a class of toddlers demanding that I let our best player go mid-season, I just use the in-game editor to ‘remove all unhappiness’. I feel no shame doing so.

A new twist on this recently was when I did let a player go on the insistence of the squad, and a bunch of them then got grumpy about a lack of squad depth, including the player who was now a first team regular as a result of the departure. 

Edited February 21 by NineCloudNine

[kiwityke1983]

1 hour ago, RDF Tactics said:

Exactly this.

now I don’t have any long term saves atm. I just can’t get into it. But I do many many 1 seasons for tactical stuff.

EVERY tests it happens where a player wants to leave. I reject offers he gets upset and only thing that works is saying they didn’t offer enough money and you get the option to say what is the right sum, then you and play try to negotiate the highest value.

when you’re clubs like West Ham and Villa, it even happened at Inter, where players want to go to Saudi to move to “a bigger club” which isn’t right. They’re richer, not bigger. If the player recognised that, the option for me to then say I can offer you more wages should be a thing that works.

things like that are in incredibly frustrating which makes it hard for me to get into saves. Immersion can be ruined by thing it shouldn’t be

The lack of logical options really annoys me.

Last season I had a player demands to leave because he wanted to return home to Spain.

He's 33 a very useful squad player but not indispensable by any stretch of anyone's imagination.

Finally sell him to Sevilla.

Instantly half the squad is upset.

Absolutely no option to say "he wanted to leave" or even better he "wanted to return to Spain".

I choose he wasn't getting game time (kind of true).

They kick off and are angry about it.

So I just ended selling the ring leader to Saudi (also over 30, also a squad player) and everyone else dropped it due to some signings I made.

I really shouldn't be getting people losing it over a player who wanted to leave because if I'd refused to let him leave they'd also be angry.

And as you say it's pretty immersion breaking.

[NineCloudNine]

46 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Absolutely no option to say "he wanted to leave" or even better he "wanted to return to Spain".

For all my grouching I do understand that conversational logic is not easy to program.

However, it is a glaring omission that we cannot use the actual reason the player asked to leave as an explanation for why they were sold.

Edited February 21 by NineCloudNine

[rp1966]

6 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

For all my grouching I do understand that conversational logic is not easy to program.

However, it is a glaring omission that we cannot use the actual reason the player asked to leave as an explanation for why they were sold.

Whoever designs the response trees for interactions seems to have the objective of upsetting the balance in your team.  Every interaction wants to either generate strife or force you into promises (which will likely cause strife down the line).  Much like the transfer system I think it is an area SI feel they can game things to help the 'AI'.

I'd go further and say that nowadays only the ME is treated as 'simulation' - everything outside that is fair game for manipulation to try to erode the human advantage. I think that's why those elements are so frustrating and out of line with what we see IRL.

 

[pw75]

1 hour ago, rp1966 said:

Whoever designs the response trees for interactions seems to have the objective of upsetting the balance in your team.  Every interaction wants to either generate strife or force you into promises (which will likely cause strife down the line).  Much like the transfer system I think it is an area SI feel they can game things to help the 'AI'.

I'd go further and say that nowadays only the ME is treated as 'simulation' - everything outside that is fair game for manipulation to try to erode the human advantage. I think that's why those elements are so frustrating and out of line with what we see IRL.

 

I think the issue for me is that SI seem to feel these introductions make the game more 'real life and immersive' yet they do the opposite.  They are more aligned to 'make it sound like we have 100 new features and everyone will buy the game again' when in reality over the years all they have really done is pile dog**** on dog*** and then wonder what the smell is!

I guess it must be difficult for a game developer to balance their priorities but for too many years now it has been introducing 'new features' either that are not ready or not needed in my opinion.

[NineCloudNine]

11 minutes ago, pw75 said:

I guess it must be difficult for a game developer to balance their priorities but for too many years now it has been introducing 'new features' either that are not ready or not needed in my opinion.

Many games locked into an annual expansion / release cycle get caught in this trap. Marketing insists that there has to be some new thing or feature. So there is one. If there’s nothing glaring missing, something is invented.

Over time this means a game contains a LOT of features, many of which won’t have had much Dev love in the first place, or whose champion has moved on. With limited Dev resources and a lot of accumulated features, each year most things get left untouched.

This annoys players, who cannot understand why half the game feels like it is still in beta or hasn’t been updated since the feature was added. It makes the game bloated, fiddly and complex. Most of the things that frustrate me - player interactions and press conferences in particular - have been barely touched for years.

But until the annual release requirement is stopped, in favour of a subscription model with regular small/medium/large updates, I don’t have much hope this will change.

[rrreee3]

3 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

Many games locked into an annual expansion / release cycle get caught in this trap. Marketing insists that there has to be some new thing or feature. So there is one. If there’s nothing glaring missing, something is invented.

Over time this means a game contains a LOT of features, many of which won’t have had much Dev love in the first place, or whose champion has moved on. With limited Dev resources and a lot of accumulated features, each year most things get left untouched.

This annoys players, who cannot understand why half the game feels like it is still in beta or hasn’t been updated since the feature was added. It makes the game bloated, fiddly and complex. Most of the things that frustrate me - player interactions and press conferences in particular - have been barely touched for years.

But until the annual release requirement is stopped, in favour of a subscription model with regular small/medium/large updates, I don’t have much hope this will change.

I disagree with the subscription model tbh, i would like to own the game even though it's not on the store anymore. I don't think the subscription model allows that.

 

 

IN MY OPINION The problem of FM development at least over the past few years is a lot less towards the monetization system but a lot more towards the long-term direction of the development. Since at least a couple FM series ago the game has had many new features but the existing features almost didn't or didn't get any improvements. The set piece setup system in FM24 should be in the game as late as FM22, if not earlier. Same bugs appearing every FM game iteration is also a big pain point for players.

 

 

There's a lot of variety on feedback, rants, criticisms around what's bad and what can be improved about the game, but i think a majority of more seasoned players can agree that the game would benefit a lot from better launch state (less bugs, less issues, decent UX, etc) and more improvements in existing features and less new features. Examples for potential existing features to be improved are data presentations in data hubs, loan managers function, data analyst reports (they're really bad presentation-wise compared to scout reports and can be safely ignored), recent matches analysis at tactics screen (it doesn't help player setup tactic in any way). There's probably a lot more but that's what i can think of on top of my head. If SI can just do at least one of those (better launch state or improvements in existing features), a lot of frustrated players will be happier to play and pay for the game regardless of the monetization system.

Edited February 21 by rrreee3

[andu1]

In my save Guardiola's City has the most possesion in the league.. Although i did put his attacking formation as 4-2-3-1..

 

[NineCloudNine]

39 minutes ago, rrreee3 said:

I disagree with the subscription model tbh, i would like to own the game even though it's not on the store anymore. I don't think the subscription model allows that.

I’m not a massive fan of subscription either, but for as long as there is an annual release with a new name then the current cycle wil continue. There is limited Dev resource and at least some of it will be spent on New Shiny Thing. That means only one or two of the last dozen Shiny Things will get touched.

Your list of hopes is basically just “be better” but let’s assume the Dev team are already doing their best. So either the annual model has to change, the price has to go up or SI have to take the risk of an annual release focused on optimisation but with no new features and hope that they don’t get destroyed in reviews.

 

[fc.cadoni]

No subscription plan for full game. Look what happens with mobile version and Apple Arcade where IMHO is a mess and overpriced. 

[forameuss]

I'm not convinced that a subscription model would lead to a markedly different product.  I'd also really doubt that they'd price it at a level where you're essentially getting the same deal as buying once a year.  Given that, I really don't see what is in it for the consumer other than hope.

[lloyd1990]

14 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

Season 24-25
Guardiola (Manchester City)

 I decided to only include a few matches so as not to pollute the topic. But these statistics are repeated with many other teams around the world on FM 24.
 The example of M.City is even more chaotic, because it is inconceivable in a real Football Simulator Game for Guardiola's M.City to have half or less than half of the passes than an inferior team.
FM 24's ME is not broken, but unfortunately it does not reflect current football.

 

Yeah this what I am struggling with. There is no differentiation of AI playing styles within the current FM24 ME - a manager who favours route one football (e.g Everton, Stoke) has more possession, completed passes, a higher pass completion rate than a manager who favours a more possession orientated playing style (Man City, Arsenal etc.). That for me kills any form of realism. Anyway:

FM24 Feedback

Positives

• Positional Play - Love seeing my IWB actually tuck into midfield to form a 3-2 with my DM to help create a box midfield. It doesn't seem complete as I would like my CM-A (Havertz) and F9 (Trossard) to rotate positions during play or IF (Martinelli) and PF-S (Jesus). I don't mean the swap positions option in player instructions. 
• IFB-D - Really love this role to create a 3 at the back. Again it doesn't feel complete as there should be a IFB-S role where he can overlap with forward runs but a fantastic addition 

Negatives

• Pressing - The lack of pressing in the final third allows AI teams to rack up an unrealistic high pass completion and possession regardless of player ability, especially in a 3 or 5 at the back system. I think this is the biggest issue with this game as this creates issues with playing style and data. In FM24 all AI teams will have an insane press 4-6 OPPDA. Not all teams press high in real life. Free kicks and goal kicks players don't man mark (even with team/player/opposition instructions set to prevent this). In real life FBs/WBs back up the press by stepping forward to man mark. Something is missing. Strikers don't press high. Frustrating as it's not realistic.
• AI Playing styles - Regardless of a manager's playing style there are only 2 active AI playing styles in FM24 tiki taka at the back when they want to keep the ball (and they will keep it) and gegenpressing when you have the ball.  
• Data - An offside shot should not count towards xG. No differentiation in OPPDA -  in my current game the OPPDA is between 4.35-5.45. Real life: In Arsenal's recent match 5-0 win away at Burnley - Arsenal had OPPDA 8.3 and Burnley had 17.2. Pass completion was 88% Arsenal and 76% Burnley. Possession Arsenal 60% and Burnley 40%. The data in FM24 for OPPDA and pass completion is really not good enough to create a realistic football gaming experience. 
• Set Piece Creator - I like the idea but I don't like the new design 
• AI Decision Making - It's non-existent. Elite teams not playing their best players for a cup final or big league games  The squad building is severely lacking after a couple of seasons.
• Press Conferences - This is beyond outdated and unrealistic. Would Arteta get asked about random players from different teams being transfer listed before a UCL final? No. 

Overall

Pressing > Playing Style > Data

Pressing is causing issues in the game in regards to playing style and data  I want to play against low block teams who have a OPPDA of 15+. Positional play is a game changing addition for me but it's not complete. Despite the upcoming final update, I will probably go back to FM23 because the ME felt more realistic compared to this edition. In future FMs, I would love to see a new role for the goalkeeper (Ball Playing Goalkeeper) to really help with build up and to break a high press to act as a +1 (Raya, Ederson etc.). Finally, SI please understand less is more - before adding new data metrics check to see the current ones are working correctly and are realistic. Feels like 1 step forward (positional play) and 2 steps back (ME, AI).  2.5 out 5. Disappointing.

[Rodrigogc]

26 minutos atrás, lloyd1990 disse:

Pressing is causing issues in the game in regards to playing style and data  I want to play against low block teams who have a OPPDA of 15+. Positional play is a game changing addition for me but it's not complete. 

Don't worry, it's not complete but it is a new feature and they promise it will get better for FM25. Meanwhile, right now new features are being developed for FM25 so SI hopes you forget about how positional play must be improved because they are already working on something new. Women's football is coming.