Russell10 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Nobody really seems to be considering them winners or a big threat. Anyone else think they are being written off a bit to easily considering the attacking talent they have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Quality in attack, but average in midfield and defence. Don't see them beating any of the top European sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakarooney Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 They got absolutely taken apart by Spain a few months back. I echo the thought that they won't be able to challenge any of the bigger nations but with Messi who knows what could happen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakarooney Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Also players like Higuain and Aguero have never really performed well for the national side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell10 Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jakarooney said: Also players like Higuain and Aguero have never really performed well for the national side. That will have to change at one point surely, Aguero is too good a player for it not to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
av3ry Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Basically Messi +10. Also rather stupidly left out their best striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Their best striker who hasn't scored a goal for them yet? Icardi being there or not isn't going to make the difference for Argentina. I'd be asking why they left guys like Paredes out, who is different to most of their central midfielders. Unless he's injured or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Nah can’t see them doing it. Did very well to get to the final last time, can’t see them repeating that or going one better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 They're definitely being underrated. The squad isn't all that, it's clearly unbalanced, and hasn't gelled yet, but if there's a manager in the competition that has done pretty spectacular things glueing a national team together it's Sampaoli, and he'll now finally have a couple of weeks to work with the whole lot. Given that I would not count them out. Plus, Messi. The main problem is their draw isn't easy. The group isn't horribly difficult (none of the groups are) but compared to others it's slightly tricky. If they fail to top the group and finish 2nd behind Croatia for example, they'd face France right next. If they DO top the group then it's likely Spain in the quarters. With a slightly easier draw I could imagine them very much building up slowly through the competition, and maybe even stumbling their way to a final like 4 years ago. But it's a few too many obstacles in theory there, like I said it's naive to count them out, but it's gonna take a few lucky breaks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedrik Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Yes, agreed that Argentina is pretty underrated. Also have the idea that Messi is going all out for the WC this year, wouldn't even surprise me if he hold back during his season with Barça . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 47 minutes ago, Astafjevs said: Their best striker who hasn't scored a goal for them yet? Icardi being there or not isn't going to make the difference for Argentina. I'd be asking why they left guys like Paredes out, who is different to most of their central midfielders. Unless he's injured or something. Yeah, starting only 2 iirc. He did score against Venezuela, but was counted as an own goal. Anyhow, it wouldn't matter if Higuain and Aguero performed like they do in their respective clubs. Dybala never got the proper chance, either. And I don't see him getting it during WC unless the situation becomes critical. Agreed on Paredes, currently their best DM, much better than Biglia's fossil. Guido Pizarro could've also been in conversation. 7 minutes ago, Cedrik said: Yes, agreed that Argentina is pretty underrated. Also have the idea that Messi is going all out for the WC this year, wouldn't even surprise me if he hold back during his season with Barça . And that's the whole problem. I watched their last 4 games in WC qualifiers and although their other offensive players possess great quality, it's all about give the ball to Messi and hope for the best. And that's not going to work against top teams. They got to the finals in 2014 with some amazing defensive performances and terrible goalscoring record and they had an even stronger squad on paper, can't see it happening again. Especially with Sampaoli not having a clue about what he's doing and trying to implement his physical football on this team. It worked with Chile, it won't work with Argentina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 They can put out a decent XI, but I don't think they'll get very far playing a back three, if Sampaoli goes down that route. When you haven't got very good central defenders, trying to play more of them isn't the solution. And they don't have ideal wingbacks either, so using that system in the hope of 'hiding' the fullback issue isn't a solution. GK; Ansaldi, Otamendi, Mascherano, Rojo; Lo Celso, Biglia; Pavón, Messi, Di María; Higuaín That's not a bad XI. Can play Di María as a central midfielder if they want. I suspect Pavón won't start so they'll probably take him out for a central midfielder instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Mercado should start over Ansaldi. And Fazio will probably be the starting CB. And he loves his Acuna and Tagliafico. Acuna is Sampaoli's Jonas. Messi, Acuna and 9 more. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries some 3-4-3 with Di Maria as WB again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Some podcast I listened to seemed to think Argentina will be playing some 2323 formation. Or something crazy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readingfanman Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Sampaoli loves his extreme formations, think he played 6 up front earlier this year against Singapore in a friendly. I don't really rate Argentina this year, I think they're quite weak at the back, and going forward they rely heavily on Messi - none of the other strikers they have can manage to hold down a starting XI spot. It basically becomes Messi + 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiale Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 The starting XI will probably be Caballero (although Armani has a slight chance of starting and probably deserves it); Mercado, Fazio, Otamendi, Tagliafico; Biglia (they say there is some chance of Mascherano starting against Iceland as Biglia is coming from an injury, but I hope not), Lo Celso (I hope it´s Lo Celso but it´s between him and Banega); Lanzini, Messi, Di Maria; Aguero. I believe Argentina doesn´t have that much of a chance of getting to the last 4, but i wouldn´t underestimate them. I don´t see a much worse team than last time. I do think there are better teams out there this time around and that could change things a bit. Last time we changed formations in between the first 2 matches and we struggled to beat Bosnia, Iran and Nigeria (Messi made 4 of our 6 goals, including a last minute miracle against IRAN), and somehow still made it to the final and had a good shot at the championship. It´s the first time I can see us failing in the first round as much as losing to Spain in the QF or winning the whole thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiale Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 hace 2 horas, skybluedave dijo: Some podcast I listened to seemed to think Argentina will be playing some 2323 formation. Or something crazy Sampaoli said something about a 2-3-3-2 formation. He is the worst speaker in the world, and we have a good share of bad speaking managers. He probably wanted to sound innovative but was only talking about a typical 4-1-3-2 formation with attacking FBs (in that case Salvio or Ansaldi would start in place of Mercado). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell10 Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, cambiale said: The starting XI will probably be Caballero (although Armani has a slight chance of starting and probably deserves it); Mercado, Fazio, Otamendi, Tagliafico; Biglia (they say there is some chance of Mascherano starting against Iceland as Biglia is coming from an injury, but I hope not), Lo Celso (I hope it´s Lo Celso but it´s between him and Banega); Lanzini, Messi, Di Maria; Aguero. I believe Argentina doesn´t have that much of a chance of getting to the last 4, but i wouldn´t underestimate them. I don´t see a much worse team than last time. I do think there are better teams out there this time around and that could change things a bit. Last time we changed formations in between the first 2 matches and we struggled to beat Bosnia, Iran and Nigeria (Messi made 4 of our 6 goals, including a last minute miracle against IRAN), and somehow still made it to the final and had a good shot at the championship. It´s the first time I can see us failing in the first round as much as losing to Spain in the QF or winning the whole thing. That starting line up..would win games! I don't think Messi would do a first round exit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I think they really need at least 1 of Higuaín or Agüero to step up. If they do they could go far. Otherwise it'll be all down to Messi and he can't carry them all the way by himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon_84 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said: I think they really need at least 1 of Higuaín or Agüero to step up. If they do they could go far. Otherwise it'll be all down to Messi and he can't carry them all the way by himself. He near enough did last time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan045 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 A very average squad for me. I feel sorry for Messi who deserves a WC win to confirm him the greatest. There’s only so far he can carry them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Maradona had a way worse squad in 1986 and single-handedly carried them. GOAT status isn't easily achievable and so far Messi was in 3 finals with the national team and hasn't won or scored in any of them. Pretty bad for a guy who regularly scores 50 goals per season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 hours ago, toon_84 said: He near enough did last time. True. Looked exhausted by the final though. The reliance on him at Barcelona and Argentina is a disgrace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFan7 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Argentina looked boring and crap whenever I watched them in qualifiers after Sampaoli took over. For a team with all that attack, they didn't even look good at attacking From the reliance on Messi it looks as though he has to drag them to the final himself and that’s too much to ask. I think I actually had them out to Croatia in the 16s for my predictor, I think quarters at best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 They're very top heavy and as good as their strikers are at club level none of them bar Messi have done anything really for the NT. Romero who would have been in goal for them is also out of the WC and they don't have a great defence or midfield. Can't see them going very far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 9 hours ago, ArsenalFan7 said: out to Croatia in the 16s for my predictor We're in the same group. <.< Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Failey Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: We're in the same group. <.< It's a bold prediction, you have to give him that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Good players, but never seem to click 100% anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 10 hours ago, ArsenalFan7 said: I think I actually had them out to Croatia in the 16s for my predictor, I think quarters at best. They're in the same group as Croatia so that's gonna be difficult. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFan7 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Yeah well I’m an idiot Looking back at my predictor now it was France they went out to which isn’t that outlandish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiale Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 hace 19 horas, GunmaN1905 dijo: Maradona had a way worse squad in 1986 and single-handedly carried them. GOAT status isn't easily achievable and so far Messi was in 3 finals with the national team and hasn't won or scored in any of them. Pretty bad for a guy who regularly scores 50 goals per season. Maradona's 86 squad wasn't that bad nor that good*. He made the difference when it mattered but the team did't make any big mistakes either. Think what would have happened if Burruchaga didn't score the last goal against Germany, all what Maradona had done in the previous two games would have been in vane; that's what Higuain (or Palacio) couldn't do in three finals. *a side note, that team arrived to the tournament in a waaaaay worse shape than any other Argentinian squad since 1974, even Maradona wasn't at his best, the President (of the country, not the federation) wanted the manager ousted, the squad was divided. But still, they weren't bad players, and when it mattered they didn't disappear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Messi hasn't scored a single goal in World Cup knock-out games. And he's scored one in Copa America knock-out games. Against Venezuela in 4-1 win when it was already 2-0. Let that sink in. For a guy who broke all of the goalscoring records that's pathetic. While we're at Argentina, their friendly in Israel got cancelled. So there's that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said: While we're at Argentina, their friendly in Israel got cancelled. So there's tha Pretty ridiculous to let political pressure and bullying affect their preparation. Now they have very little left to find another opponent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Messi hasn't scored a single goal in World Cup knock-out games. And he's scored one in Copa America knock-out games. Against Venezuela in 4-1 win when it was already 2-0. Let that sink in. For a guy who broke all of the goalscoring records that's pathetic. While we're at Argentina, their friendly in Israel got cancelled. So there's that. He was 18yo in 06 and barely used, was managed by an absolute moron in 10 (the fact he was the best player of all time shouldn't change the fact he was an incompetent moron as a manager), and seemed to be in very weird off condition in 14 with constant vomiting bouts and spending almost entire matches at walking pace (yet somehow still shone quite a bit IMO). Also he's often played much deeper, much further away from the area for Argentina, than he does for the team he breaks all goalscoring records for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Those are all valid points, but we're talking about a guy's GOAT player case. Greatest of all time. All time. GOAT shouldn't need excuses. I do think that he's the best player of our generation, but he failed in 3 finals with Argentina and Barcelona already won CL in 2006 when he was just another player. They'd probably be a dynasty even without him. A weaker one, but still. On the other hand, key players from that team (Puyol, Pique, Iniesta, Xavi, Fabregas) won international trophies without him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 31 minutes ago, PMLF said: Pretty ridiculous to let political pressure and bullying affect their preparation. Now they have very little left to find another opponent. They could have found a less controversial opponent to begin with, Israel is not very popular these days. I'm sure this was known in Argentina too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Nordan said: They could have found a less controversial opponent to begin with, Israel is not very popular these days. I'm sure this was known in Argentina too. That would mean Israel would be prevented from playing games, which doesn't sound fair at all. They should have just ignored the complaints, in a month nobody would remember or care about them anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, GunmaN1905 said: Those are all valid points, but we're talking about a guy's GOAT player case. Greatest of all time. All time. GOAT shouldn't need excuses. I do think that he's the best player of our generation, but he failed in 3 finals with Argentina and Barcelona already won CL in 2006 when he was just another player. They'd probably be a dynasty even without him. A weaker one, but still. On the other hand, key players from that team (Puyol, Pique, Iniesta, Xavi, Fabregas) won international trophies without him. Honestly anyone who thinks Barcelona would be a dynasty without Messi clearly doesn't follow La Liga - only way you'd be right is if Ronaldinho didn't fall off a cliff. Key players from that teaming winning international trophies without him means literally nothing. Completely different competitions, completely different opponents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
decapitated Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44378669 Quote Argentina has cancelled a World Cup warm-up match with Israel, apparently under political pressure over Israel's treatment of Palestinians in Gaza. Argentine striker Gonzalo Higuain told the ESPN sports channel on Tuesday the game had been cancelled. "They've finally done the right thing," Higuain said in an interview. The Israeli Embassy in Argentina tweeted to confirm that the football friendly between the two countries was off. Media reports say Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called Argentine President Mauricio Macri in an attempt to salvage the friendly tie, due to be played in Jerusalem on Saturday. News of the cancellation was met with cheers in Gaza, where at least 120 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces during recent protests. In Ramallah in the West Bank, the Palestinian football association issued a statement thanking Argentine striker Lionel Messi and his colleagues for the cancellation. "Values, morals and sport have secured a victory today and a red card was raised at Israel through the cancellation of the game," said chairman Jibril Rajoub, quoted by Reuters news agency. Mr Rajoub, who had before the reported cancellation called for Palestinians to burn replica shirts and pictures of Messi, announced that he would hold a press conference on Wednesday. The campaign group Avaaz, which had called for the game to be cancelled, praised what it called a "brave ethical decision". "This proves Argentina understands there is nothing friendly about playing in Jerusalem, when just miles away Israelis snipers are shooting unarmed protesters," said Alice Jay, campaign director at Avaaz. The match, which was to be Argentina's final game before the start of their World Cup campaign in Russia later this month, was set to be played at a stadium in West Jerusalem. The status of Jerusalem is highly sensitive. Israel regards Jerusalem as its "eternal and undivided" capital. Palestinians see the eastern part of the city as the capital of a future Palestinian state, and were angered by a decision to relocate the game there from Haifa. Last month, US President Donald Trump stirred international anger and condemnation with a decision to relocate the US embassy to Jerusalem, recognising the city as the capital of Israel. The guys burning their Messi jerseys better buy new ones after this. This doesn't sit well with me, especially since the world cup in being held in a country which behaves a lot worse than Israel. I'm guessing it was done to protect Argentina NT's fanbase in the Middle East. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Why schedule the friendly in the first place if you knew there was a high chance of a situation like this? Oh wait, money. This is poor from both FAs, could`ve easily been avoided by playing in another city or on neutral ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony85 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Should have just played it at the original venue and rejected the additional money put up from the Israeli government to move it to Jerusalem. Once they accepted the offer it became a political issue and they lose all sympathy from me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 12 hours ago, PMLF said: That would mean Israel would be prevented from playing games, which doesn't sound fair at all. They should have just ignored the complaints, in a month nobody would remember or care about them anyway. Israel do play games, both friendlies and competitive, in Israel and elsewhere. Not sure why Argentina broke the proverbial camel's back, too high profile maybe. Or maybe Argentina actively sought to play Israel, that would be a red flag to the Palestinians I suppose. I don't think it's possible to separate sports and politics in the middle east today. I don't think your 'get on with it' philosophy works there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony85 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 The problem was the game was moved to Jerusalem after the government offered Argentina more money to play their instead of the original venue. Most of their games are played in places like Hafia or Tel Aviv. Moving the game to Jerusalem is part of their political aims in getting the city recognised internationally as their capital. The Palestinians were always likely to kick up a fuss after Trump moved the US embassay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Tony85 said: The problem was the game was moved to Jerusalem after the government offered Argentina more money to play their instead of the original venue. Most of their games are played in places like Hafia or Tel Aviv. Moving the game to Jerusalem is part of their political aims in getting the city recognised internationally as their capital. The Palestinians were always likely to kick up a fuss after Trump moved the US embassay. Ah, yeah that makes sense. A really big red flag right there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiale Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 The coach and the players didn't like this friendly from the start, they stated several times that they wanted to travel from Barcelona to Moscow without any other stop. Still, the AFA wanted to cash on it and arranged the friendly. On top of that there was the issue with the city change. And there is the issue of our government being a little desperate for attention from the big guy up north (believe it or not it was a big issue about the U.S. buying or not buying lemons from us -freaking lemons!) and saw all this as an opportunity to get some sympathy. AFA and the government are shameful, the players and the staff have reasons to be concerned, didn't want to play from the start and took the opportunity. For me it was unnecessary to schedule such a match, it was obvious that this was coming. This is what it's so frustrating about AFA and happens time after time, it doesn't listen its players. It's not that hard, just make what the coach and your best players want! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiale Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 At the end I don't think it was all about the international tension or the threats, it was more about the AFA doing AFA things, and the players taking matters into their own hands when it got a little tense, because, you know, there is a pretty important tournament around the corner and who needs to be dealing with such issues. And now I got mad about AFA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I don't think the FA have to listen to the players but they do need to be more professional about the preparation, without making last minute changes. Either schedule the friendly as early as possible and play it, or don't schedule it at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiale Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 hace 2 minutos, PMLF dijo: I don't think the FA have to listen to the players but they do need to be more professional about the preparation, without making last minute changes. Either schedule the friendly as early as possible and play it, or don't schedule it at all. Theoretically I would agree that there is no need to listen player's opinion, but what about the coach? Shouldn't he have a say about the preparation of his team? Also, I know it may be different somewhere else, but here the players are far better prepared to make such a call than the FA. Calling them amateur doesn't reflect what they are. They are wannabe politicians and mostly have a sketchy past. In comparison, Grondona, who by all meanings was a mobster, was a consumed pro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, cambiale said: Theoretically I would agree that there is no need to listen player's opinion, but what about the coach? Shouldn't he have a say about the preparation of his team? Also, I know it may be different somewhere else, but here the players are far better prepared to make such a call than the FA. Calling them amateur doesn't reflect what they are. They are wannabe politicians and mostly have a sketchy past. In comparison, Grondona, who by all meanings was a mobster, was a consumed pro. Yes, the coach surely has to participate in the decision as he knows best what his team need. Yes, I can imagine how bad they are as ours (Brazil) are awful too, and they still look better than the Argentine ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell10 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 Pavon from Argentina seems to be getting a bit of hype, he any good? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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