Is it easier to make tactics this year?

[FootballManager89]

I noticed they added a few new things to the tactics creator including showing pros and cons of your tactics and some other features showing which areas of the pitch you are vulnerable at. So is it easier to create a tactic this year? Or if you suck at it like me you'll still be forced to use tactics made by others?

[SkaldfraNorden]

My first feel is that it is easier to notice flaws in your formation and/or tactics. And having game remember player instructions right from the tactics screen helps to save time when tinkering.

[FootballManager89]

Sounds great I can't wait to play.

[Stevicus]

Noticeably easier. I was never one for tactics, my glory days were back when it was choosing a formation and setting up runs with the arrows. When the tactics were overhauled I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Whatsmore I couldn't even see where it was going wrong because I didn't watch in 3D so often I was relying on my team just being a better crop of players on the day. 

 

Always downloaded tactics when I couldnt master them  myself. But this year it's great, I can see where it's going wrong before I even go into the match, it tells you who works well together with the partnerships dynamic which is really handy. For instance my AML and backup DL work better together than with my first choice DL. It tells me if there's too much space not being covered and when you change player roles it even tells you the difference it's made on the pitch.

 

It really is easier this year, downloaded tactics may eventually be a thing of the past. 

[Rashidi]

11 hours ago, FootballManager89 said:

I noticed they added a few new things to the tactics creator including showing pros and cons of your tactics and some other features showing which areas of the pitch you are vulnerable at. So is it easier to create a tactic this year? Or if you suck at it like me you'll still be forced to use tactics made by others?

If you use all the tools in the game, then the game is noticeably easier

[FootballManager89]

50 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

If you use all the tools in the game, then the game is noticeably easier

Can you list a few tools that you are talking about? 

[Domathon]

i would be careful believing peoples advice here  i'm finding the game incredibly difficult although i have made it tough for myself by stripping and rebuilding a relegation tipped newcastle team.

i pay 0 interest in people who think they have great tactics then you find out they manage mancity manutd chelsea, barcelona etc, 

[Rashidi]

18 minutes ago, Domathon said:

i would be careful believing peoples advice here  i'm finding the game incredibly difficult although i have made it tough for myself by stripping and rebuilding a relegation tipped newcastle team.

i pay 0 interest in people who think they have great tactics then you find out they manage mancity manutd chelsea, barcelona etc, 

Then maybe you should have picked a game that is easier during the beta.

[HemHat]

Is the showing flaws in your tactics bit as flawed as ass man advice during a game?

[Neil Brock]

56 minutes ago, Domathon said:

i would be careful believing peoples advice here  i'm finding the game incredibly difficult although i have made it tough for myself by stripping and rebuilding a relegation tipped newcastle team.

i pay 0 interest in people who think they have great tactics then you find out they manage mancity manutd chelsea, barcelona etc, 

I've been playing with Nantes and have got them up to 2nd in the first season with a couple of tactics I feel suit their squads abilities. I've only signed one additional player as well. One uses a standard mentality and one a control mentality for when I feel I'm the stronger side. But I've never found a 'one tactic fits all' in previous versions either to be honest. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

But I've never found a 'one tactic fits all' in previous versions either to be honest. 

 

I think I almost have one in FM2017 right now, with my Liverpool team. It's a 4-2-3-1 (two MCs, three AMs), and I essentially use it all the time with very, very few exceptions. If I'm at home against a clearly inferior opponent, I might go for a 4-4-2 just so that I can get two strikers on the pitch and (hopefully) score more goals.

 

Obviously I don't win all the time, but you can't realistically except that with any tactic.

[Cid]

8 hours ago, Domathon said:

i would be careful believing peoples advice here  i'm finding the game incredibly difficult although i have made it tough for myself by stripping and rebuilding a relegation tipped newcastle team.

i pay 0 interest in people who think they have great tactics then you find out they manage mancity manutd chelsea, barcelona etc, 

I'm with this guy. Tried a handful of lower league teams so far - Barnet, Doncaster and the like - and I'm losing virtually every game. Strikers are destroying every attempt I make at a defensive setup and yes, I am changing tactics, making sure players have understanding, closing gaps etc. Nothing I do works and it's a huge surprise if I don't let in at least three every match even if I play a narrow 5-4-1 contain strategy or whatever parking the bus would be. I could build a concrete wall on the goal line and they'd still tunnel under it, and the ref would give it.

No question for me, this is a LOT harder than 2017, which itself was harder than 2016 but at least still faintly possible to get a team up. This one's totally beyond me.

[zigaliro]

It might be easier to analyse flaws, but it`s much more harder to create a working tactics. I already tried many different tactics with Sevilla, Atletico and Barcelona but no success. It`s much harder compared to last year.

[BayernMB]

8 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

I've been playing with Nantes and have got them up to 2nd in the first season with a couple of tactics I feel suit their squads abilities. I've only signed one additional player as well. One uses a standard mentality and one a control mentality for when I feel I'm the stronger side. But I've never found a 'one tactic fits all' in previous versions either to be honest. 

I had that in most FM... Last year I had a killer 3_4_3where I got Dresden to CL winners in 4 seasons, also had great success with other great and not so great teams. 

[MBarbaric]

23 minutes ago, zigaliro said:

It might be easier to analyse flaws, but it`s much more harder to create a working tactics. I already tried many different tactics with Sevilla, Atletico and Barcelona but no success. It`s much harder compared to last year.

have you tried the default tactics and just played few matches to see how that works before making any changes? People frequently overcomplicate things trying to replicate some real teams without really knowing how these teams play or how these instructions translate to ME.

[Mennox]

1 hour ago, Cid said:

I'm with this guy. Tried a handful of lower league teams so far - Barnet, Doncaster and the like - and I'm losing virtually every game. Strikers are destroying every attempt I make at a defensive setup and yes, I am changing tactics, making sure players have understanding, closing gaps etc. Nothing I do works and it's a huge surprise if I don't let in at least three every match even if I play a narrow 5-4-1 contain strategy or whatever parking the bus would be. I could build a concrete wall on the goal line and they'd still tunnel under it, and the ref would give it.

No question for me, this is a LOT harder than 2017, which itself was harder than 2016 but at least still faintly possible to get a team up. This one's totally beyond me.

I agree on this - found it extremely tough this year (I did in beta for 2017 but not as much than this version). I started with Newcastle and sacked after 3 months, tried multiple tactics and was just leaking in goals all the time (particularly the keeper pushing the ball into his own net quite often) - now I am with Birmingham and only won 9 out of 25 since I took over in January...tinkered around with the tactics but in a way, it means I am now getting a better understanding of how they work instead of downloading from the Workshop!

[Domathon]

5 hours ago, Cid said:

I'm with this guy. Tried a handful of lower league teams so far - Barnet, Doncaster and the like - and I'm losing virtually every game. Strikers are destroying every attempt I make at a defensive setup and yes, I am changing tactics, making sure players have understanding, closing gaps etc. Nothing I do works and it's a huge surprise if I don't let in at least three every match even if I play a narrow 5-4-1 contain strategy or whatever parking the bus would be. I could build a concrete wall on the goal line and they'd still tunnel under it, and the ref would give it.

No question for me, this is a LOT harder than 2017, which itself was harder than 2016 but at least still faintly possible to get a team up. This one's totally beyond me.

soon as some one says im playing with barcelona, manutd etc i stop reading their post.I am struggling to draw with teams (as newcastle) who have 10 men or are managerless its been the roughest 25 games of football manager ive ever witnessed, i have resorted to standard,flexible 442 because i lost all confidence in making my own tactics now.

i have 442 standard flexible for home games and defensive, structured 442 for tough/away games - still conceding every single game (never had a clean sheet) although i so expect to survive the drop we were tipped for at the beginning of the season

[FMunderachiever]

It would just be easier to manage an actual football team rather than try and play this game.

 

You might just about nick a 1-0 win if you click 20 buttons in the right place before the game. It bears absolutely no reflection whatsoever on real life football and you can tell because people "break" the game with ridiculous 3-7-0 tactics or 2-2-2-2-2 or something utterly daft.

 

The fun went out of this game years ago. Cue all the 7000 hour addicts chiming in....

[Domathon]

managed to draw 1-1 at home with burnley in a game i expected to "control" considering i played my best 11, this was in the fa cup, lost the replay 2-0 they played like bayern munich on crack scored from 2 corners in 5mins too i expected to get destroyed looking back at the season so i played defensively i was gonna load up and see how it went with standard, control but whats the point i honestly feel like its pree programed for me to loose 70% of my games but being old and wise i should know better?, starting to tilt to be frank ide rather stop playing than make a new save with a top team, i have to admit this is my 4th time trying to get newcastle save going but i will stop now and hope that full release i get "lucky" :/

[Domathon]

Ok i have to stop playing now too many hours wasted. im rolling a 10 sided dice every game here. 7 sides say loss 1 says win 2 say draw, got bored of reloading games to see "what if" and once i start reloading matches it cant be a true save for me, lost interest for now at least.

 

[Domathon]

has anyone ever won an away game?, not as real madrid? okay bedtime 

[FMunderachiever]

Its just tedious seeing the same nonsense over and over.

Wingers crossing into the side netting

Strikers with high finishing and composure who literally cannot finish

Goalkeepers carrying the ball over the byline every game

Making tactical changes that have zero effect

 

Assistant manager talking rubbish permanently with regards to formations....chelsea best suited to 442 when they just won the league playing 343 ffs

 

You have to be far far far too precise with everything you do to win a game. 

Fans will defend it to the hilt because like me they grew up in the golden era of championship manager but these games are utterly atrocious and im sure many would agree.

The game is quite simply hard for the sake of being hard. Players are programmed to behave ridicously and the game is so scripted i can even tell you the result. How can that be possible?

 

 

[Svenc]

Team shape et all, still isn't covered all that well by Si. But overall it should be easier. But then I've already seen players ignoring the visual cues added, which is  when zones on the pitch are being covered in blood red, in particular defensive zones, and getting some burnt by it, so who knows. Also, the game is still missing feedback of flat-out telling players when they are mostly spamming loads of poop naturally, and they may consider changing something, either as a result of a particular opposition approach or their own doings in general (boss, we are squeezing the space this much that 80% of our attempts inside the box are from set pieces or rushed affairs. I'm not going to tell you how to fix it, but I'm at least going to tell you!) What doesn't help, if you are used to poop, you will perceive it as vanilla ice every time your side poops, and the problem with the vanilla ice is, even that can be tough to swallow bloody consistently on any level of vanilla.There is also no reliable feedback as to how often sides would run into breaks, counters and more, which MAY trigger a few positive changes with those that don't yell "rigged" at every opportunity, at least the brighter lights, but who knows.

Am I like a broken records on this? You betcha!

 

[Rashidi]

2 hours ago, Svenc said:

Am I like a broken records on this? You betcha!

You're just getting older and more grumpier than usual :-) You forgot how to it off. 

[Cid]

I'm glad it's not just me virtually incapable at it. Given up myself, will try again in a couple of weeks in case they've fixed anything. Breath not held.

[melogroovy]

I'm playing Newcastle with relatively few changes.  Defensively my 4231 is sound but I have trouble scoring.  It takes me a while longer to get the the offense clicking but I always have with past versions.

[zigaliro]

On 1. 11. 2017 at 20:21, MBarbaric said:

have you tried the default tactics and just played few matches to see how that works before making any changes? People frequently overcomplicate things trying to replicate some real teams without really knowing how these teams play or how these instructions translate to ME.

Yes yes nothing is working. Getting sick of this game. 

[Takamaru]

I'm wondering, those who are struggling, are you playing lower league? Or top teams? Same question for the ones in this thread who are saying tactics are easy... 

[zigaliro]

44 minutes ago, Takamaru said:

I'm wondering, those who are struggling, are you playing lower league? Or top teams? Same question for the ones in this thread who are saying tactics are easy... 

I`m playing top teams, and im struggling

[KUBI]

Just now, zigaliro said:

I`m playing top teams, and im struggling

What tactics are you using?

[Domathon]

i finished my first season as newcastle survived the drop but mainly due to other teams slipping up, gave up on my usual micro management and went 442>standard>flexible (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

changed to defensive/counter structured in alot of games as i was underdog. its hard to judge from 1 season but there's no consistency and just absolute randomness to the games, usually a struggling side will turn up against me, home or away and score with free flowing football.

i learned very quickily when you go 1nil up, the opposition will win the game 3-1 9 times out of 10, play a season with a underdog side and you will be where i am, no morale and clueless as to how to get any tactic to work, i dont think my 442 standard/flexible is working at all but nothing else is either so i thought damage limitation. 

 

KUBi sorry i didnt reply, i looked on the bugs forum and pretty much everything seems to be mentioned already.

 

 

[Stevicus]

I've tried a usual formation of 4231 with two CMs and an AMC with wingers but no matter what I do I concede a lot more than I score. I had Rooney on fire and managed to bolster the defence. I tweaked the CMs into more defensive roles but wasn't working. 

 

As with my Liverpool save, I'm struggling unless I employ a 41221 with a DM, 2 CMs, wingers and a striker. Defensively it's pretty sound, probably still letting in more than I should but also struggling to score with strikers. Mirallas is banging in the assists, sigurdson is scoring a lot as an Al (if) and even have Klaasen popping in a few from CM but the strikers are just there. Tempted to go completely striker less and have an AMC (ss) to see if that'll help. 

[herne79]

22 minutes ago, Stevicus said:

I've tried a usual formation of 4231 with two CMs and an AMC with wingers but no matter what I do I concede a lot more than I score. I had Rooney on fire and managed to bolster the defence. I tweaked the CMs into more defensive roles but wasn't working. 

 

As with my Liverpool save, I'm struggling unless I employ a 41221 with a DM, 2 CMs, wingers and a striker. Defensively it's pretty sound, probably still letting in more than I should but also struggling to score with strikers. Mirallas is banging in the assists, sigurdson is scoring a lot as an Al (if) and even have Klaasen popping in a few from CM but the strikers are just there. Tempted to go completely striker less and have an AMC (ss) to see if that'll help. 

If struggling with the 4231 there is a great article about it over in the tactics forum atm which might help you.

[Domathon]

last post feel like im becoming a troll, im done till full release and going into that very skeptically.

[Stevicus]

19 minutes ago, herne79 said:

If struggling with the 4231 there is a great article about it over in the tactics forum atm which might help you.

Will check it out, cheers.

[FootballManager89]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

If struggling with the 4231 there is a great article about it over in the tactics forum atm which might help you.

I plugged that tactic in and i'm getting destroyed.

[looping]

My experience after 1 week:

All my tactics that worked in fm17 are now rubbish (4411,541)

All my tactics that were rubbish in fm17 now work (particularly, any versión of 442)

For me it's easier, basically because the only tactic I know how it is expected to work is 442.

[FMunderachiever]

Doesnt the fact that people need to go onto an internet forum, and read pages of tactical analysis by slightly mad bloggers who have put every single player role and instruction under the microscope for hour upon hour, probably at the expense of having a somewhat normal life and who have made football manager a life choice rather than a computer game hobby not completely illustrate the point that the game has just become absurdly hard for far too many people and not enjoyable?

 

Ive read that tactical article on 4231. Within it, it states that choosing "fluid" makes you more compact on the field.

Who on earth when presented with the words "Structured" and "fluid" would think that its fluid that makes your team a more compact unit? I mean at the very least, the terminology used within the game is absolutely bonkers.

 

The people who chat on a forum are the super passionate people, they don't reflect the whole gaming public.

 

Even advice within the experts is a contradiction. people say don't chop and change tactics. What do you do when the AI works them out? what do you do when they don't work and youre forced to change them?

 

Do team talks, pre match briefings actually do anything? genuinely, what do they do? how can you tell they've done something? How do you tell the difference between what different messages have on the field, how do you quantify it??

 

Fact of the matter is, you should be able to put your players onto the field with a somewhat coherent structure and logical instructions and not expect to be struggling every single game unless youre choosing completely the wrong options which no one would, as owning the game kind of implies you have an interest in football.

 

If youre a big team, hell, in real life some managers would win in SPITE of their tactics with their good players.

 

I agree, you might not be able to take a Burton Albion as mentioned in another thread into the premier league without fine tuning everything to the n'th degree and long term building, but a player should be able to make some simple tactics and not see every possible facet of them exposed ruthlessly game after game until someone quits their save.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I have a 4-3-1-2 I used in FM17 that I've now started using in my Fulham save, and the players are starting to get used to it and are playing some nice football. I think it still needs fine tuned a bit as it's a different team I'm using it with, but seems ok so far. 

[FMunderachiever]

3 minutes ago, looping said:

My experience after 1 week:

All my tactics that worked in fm17 are now rubbish (4411,541)

All my tactics that were rubbish in fm17 now work (particularly, any versión of 442)

For me it's easier, basically because the only tactic I know how it is expected to work is 442.

Ive seen this said before, and this is another point. Ive seen the same thing. Especially with 2 deep central midfielders in 442, like DM and Segundo Volante together.

How can a tactic "stop working" or be less effective game to game each year?

Tactics are tactics. Its not reinventing the wheel. if something is successful 2 years ago, theres absolutely no reason why it should be any worse or less effective now.

Some formations come into fashion, seems to be 3 at the back at the moment, but its not like 3 at the back didn't exist before Conte used it.

 

The pitch map with the red squares on it can have lots of areas of concern and you can win, and it can have no areas of concern on it and you can be absolutely tanked. Its just another part of the game that's completely useless.

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

4 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

 

Do team talks, pre match briefings actually do anything? genuinely, what do they do? how can you tell they've done something? How do you tell the difference between what different messages have on the field, how do you quantify it??

 

 

With the on-screen feedback showing how the players have reacted, which is linked into the players's morale. In fact, on the team talk screen you can SEE the change in morale. This will then give the players a boost (or the opposite) for around the first 10-15 mins of the match. You can track morale throughout the match as well, in addition to the multitude of pre and post match analysis there is now. The information is all there, you just need to look for it. 

[FMunderachiever]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

With the on-screen feedback showing how the players have reacted, which is linked into the players's morale. In fact, on the team talk screen you can SEE the change in morale. This will then give the players a boost (or the opposite) for around the first 10-15 mins of the match. You can track morale throughout the match as well, in addition to the multitude of pre and post match analysis there is now. The information is all there, you just need to look for it. 

So what do they do then, besides their morale going green? do they run faster? time tackles better? finish their chances more clinically? how much of the result can I attribute to what I said, or didn't say to them?

[Dagenham_Dave]

3 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

How can a tactic "stop working" or be less effective game to game each year?

If the tactic that worked the year before was exploiting a deficiency in the match engine that the following edition doesn't have. 

Generally speaking, a sound, logical tactic will work on any FM, providing you have the players to utilise it, and set it up correctly. 

However, another factor is there are also improvements to the AI to consider as well year on year. A tactic which may have worked in a previous version might struggle now because the AI is better equipped to deal with it. 

[FMunderachiever]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

If the tactic that worked the year before was exploiting a deficiency in the match engine that the following edition doesn't have. 

Generally speaking, a sound, logical tactic will work on any FM, providing you have the players to utilise it, and set it up correctly. 

However, another factor is there are also improvements to the AI to consider as well year on year. A tactic which may have worked in a previous version might struggle now because the AI is better equipped to deal with it. 

Well, you've just proved my point in the extent that as I said before, the game doesn't reflect real life.

The AI shouldn't be more equipped to deal with a tactic. it can either be dealt with or not, like in real life. Until someone comes up with an entirely new method of defending which wont happen. Hipster fads like gegenpressing aren't new in the game in real life.

People just learn how to crack the game, and what they know about actual football could probably be written on a stamp. That is why you see the myriad of daft formations that achieve loads of success.

[tieio]

By this time last year I had 3 world beater tactics that I ended up using all year, and this season I have yet to find one similar tactic that can win even two games in a row. It is much harder, but not for good reasons. Why would logical and sound tactics suddenly not work anymore?

Cue the people who say they must not be logical or sound in 3...2...1...

[Svenc]

20 hours ago, Rashidi said:

You're just getting older and more grumpier than usual :-) You forgot how to it off. 

Bang on the older part anyway, Rash.   By the way, the question for some no doubt isn't actually:

Is making a tactics easier/harder than before?

They key more oftenly lies in this question (e.g. was able to put up a "world beater on FM 15, am still struggling on FM 22):

What do you consider a "working" tactic?


There may come a day when it's impossible to decisively outsmart/bludgeon AI and game code. The day when anything tactical, as in football, is shifting odds some in/against ones favor. The day when managers can do everything "right" on the tactics front, but still go on a run of 5 losses, as either their side is just poor, their opponent much superior -- or, as in Cologne's case this season, they have the fortunes of consistently losing matches for two months in a row despite having had chances to at least draw most of them. For some, this may become a steep learning experience. From my experience, the game has been been the same on the "tactics" front for the past xxx years on any level of play. Outside of UI confusion I have never seen a player who hasn't weird ideas about football struggling here consistently (consistently making sides underperform, in particular the top ones, oft took some damn weird stuff even if you tried). And I'd be surprised once the demo hits (Beta finished) that FM 18 would be hugely different. Also don't see why anybody struggling wouldn't at least try the ass-mans (who I would like to see upgraded to go through explaining a few of the basics, as basics has been all you have ever needed. The game has never been catered to the most hardcore tactical niche, but if you struggle with the most basic of team sports basics you should be burnt some insisting you were Mourinho instead as else, what's the point.).

 

[RTHerringbone]

I am amused by the spammy posts which purport to be holding back for full release to make everything work tactically 😂

There is an excellent tactics section on the forum. Use it. Playing the game for years isn't an automatic entitlement to succeed (and I'm delighted that it isnt).

From reading some comments above, people are just adopting a scattergun approach to tactics. Stop, think, plan and observe. And use the tactics sub-forum - ask why your system appears to fail. 

[sedge11]

I've got quite a simple 4-2-3-1 with wolves that is working very well, with a Dm sitting just behind and to side of the cm, got no added instructions, just the player roles and control and fluid and as the structure. It was quite patchy at 1st, drew a lot of games, but now the players trust me and have formed some good partnerships it's works great, don't concede many and score on average about 2 a game.

i know wolves are one of the better sides in the championship, but the championship is a difficult league so very happy with how it's going.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, Svenc said:

Bang on the older part anyway, Rash.   By the way, the question for some no doubt isn't actually:

Is making a tactics easier/harder than before?

They key more oftenly lies in this question (e.g. was able to put up a "world beater on FM 15, am still struggling on FM 22):

What do you consider a "working" tactic?


There may come a day when it's impossible to decisively outsmart/bludgeon AI and game code. The day when anything tactical, as in football, is shifting odds some in/against ones favor. The day when managers can do everything "right" on the tactics front, but still go on a run of 5 losses, as either their side is just poor, their opponent much superior -- or, as in Cologne's case this season, they have the fortunes of consistently losing matches for two months in a row despite having had chances to at least draw most of them. For some, this may become a steep learning experience. From my experience, the game has been been the same on the "tactics" front for the past xxx years on any level of play. Outside of UI confusion I have never seen a player who hasn't weird ideas about football struggling here consistently (consistently making sides underperform, in particular the top ones, oft took some damn weird stuff even if you tried). And I'd be surprised once the demo hits (Beta finished) that FM 18 would be hugely different. Also don't see why anybody struggling wouldn't at least try the ass-mans (who I would like to see upgraded to go through explaining a few of the basics, as basics has been all you have ever needed. The game has never been catered to the most hardcore tactical niche, but if you struggle with the most basic of team sports basics you should be burnt some insisting you were Mourinho instead as else, what's the point.).

 

I haven't had an issue with the match engine thus far, I do believe that the AI Manager needs to be a bit more intelligent. Case in point, I did this 45 second video to show what I mean.

At the heart of it, its never been  more easier to make a working tactic. Let me explain: 

There are now more tools that give you valuable feedback, and I know behind closed doors we are working on tuning some of these even more. There are now, Scouting Reports that are more detailed even showing you how two teams line up against one another or was that in Analyst reports. Both have now been boosted, then we have the key pass combos which have a fantastic addition this year that I was working hard on to see get improved because it is already the single biggest aid in the game. I used that tool to hit the team off the break in the video above, by analysing how they play when they switch to a 424.

Then we have other tools like the tactical grid, granted it doesn't show shape effects, but how much more help do we need?  Shape effects are notoriously difficult to describe visually since roles and duties morph them in a game. So the best thing is to see how each role and duty balances each other out. The grid does just that and then you have partnerships that change over time. Ok, people are complaining about Dynamics but I took a manager with suggested coaching badges and within 3 months I have my squad eating out of my hand? Why cos I pay attention to very easy information to track in the game.  There is a theme here. There is information in the game, if you sit down and think about it, its easy to figure out what this information should be.  I am disappointed SI included Mentality and Shape advice in the game in the form of reports, but I guess we needed some way to make the analyst reports relevant. 

Since 2003, @Cleon me @Hunter @Barside @herne79 @themadsheep2001 and countless others have given the same advice over and over again. If you look through each thread we posted you will find that our tactics for FM17 won't be too far away from our tactics for FM15, granted there may be slight differences to account for the wide area defending we had in FM17,  and the new roles we are all itching to add, but the principles of making a balanced tactic that makes sense still remain the same.

It's not rocket science, the problem arrives when users make tactics that are inherently unstable and then expect SI to fix problems they should have been able to avoid in the first place. To give you some context, in that video we weren't favourites. We took a lead, then the AI hit us with a counter using the 424. When I conceded the equaliser I realised what I had done wrong, I had committed my players in closing down the AI heavily in their own half, in fact, I had played their game. By closing the AI down heavily I had committed my players further up the pitch, even if we were to win the second ball, we would not be in a good position to counter. So we conceded the first goal. When we took the lead, the AI went back to the 424, this time I changed my OIs and my removed my high block. Went structured and set direct passing on my wingbacks. T'was a simple strategy, we soaked and hit them off the break.

In my second match, faced with the same kind of opponent and playing away from home I did something like that for 90 minutes, we won with 3 counter attacking goals. 

The logic in creating tactics hasn't changed, what I still think needs improvement is actually making the AI tougher to beat, by adding a layer of unpredictability to its systems. This, however, may never happen till we see the new match engine, which I strongly believe is already in development. And if that ever happens, god help those who think the AI is hard now, but will SI ever make the game that hard? Nah.

 

[Svenc]

25 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

 

 

The logic in creating tactics hasn't changed, what I still think needs improvement is actually making the AI tougher to beat, by adding a layer of unpredictability to its systems. This, however, may never happen till we see the new match engine, which I strongly believe is already in development. And if that ever happens, god help those who think the AI is hard now, but will SI ever make the game that hard? Nah.

 

Precisely my point. Bar getting a few wiser, I've been playing this the same since about a decade. Agree on the second part as well. Actually, AI being limited leads to perceived randomness. To give that a bit context, I've been forwarded a pkm from a prior release where a guy did employ a rather experimental shape that visibly had holes in the backline everywhere. Problem 1: The majority of the save this worked real well as AI has a disadvantage in not being able to "spot" anything. Problem 2: That guy was hit every time drastically by random chance. It could be any opponent, player quality didn't matter. The only thing that mattered was what the opponent was playing. In this case, every time an AI manager picked a 3 central forward formation, he conceded up to 6, 7 goals each, as they wreaked havoc due to the unstable/experimental nature of the tactics. This didn't happen due to AI intelligence, but due to the researcher given a specific AI manager a 3 central forward formation into the db.

Coincidentally, similar weird stuff is what you oft get from downloading tactics dominating the fan scene since too. Last season's illogical ultra narrow central overloads compressin the space to the size of a tuna can, which don't even make sense if you apply football logics (any side would just sit back and force a side playing like that to long shots galore). In-game, which is the flaw, this worked well most of the time. But every time an AI man dropped deep and plugged that space with a back five and a couple DMs/CMs, you were in for trouble. Problem is, that happened randomly. E.g. why can I steamroller Real Madrid, and then have 50 crapshots no goal against the dead last so conistently? The logics rewarded have been always the same.  However, as long as people bitch and moan about it, and can't even outline specifically what there problem is, no dice. Weird ideas about football, no bloody chance. I know from experience, trying a few of such, what may be missing though, hence the continuous requests in my first post, for instance. I'm not sure if SI agree with that, as from my experience, they've always treated the game as a "learning simulation". As in: We're not going to spoon feed. We're giving you a few hints, but that's that. The more you play and discuss the game with other fellow managers, the more you learn. Unless all you do is moaning -- or conclude that you wouldn't be able to do a thing anway, that is. I still think some of the stuff is absolutely toxic. Such as the post match reports that draw a side a "lucky" winner simply because it had half the amount of shots.....