Brexit and FM17

[Maaka]

1 hour ago, callamity said:

 

[warlock]

15 minutes ago, herne79 said:

So if we start playing the game and don't at least plan for the worst case scenario, and the worst case happens, we only have ourselves to blame.  It could happen two years down the road, or seven, but whatever it is it gives us an extra dimension of gameplay to consider when making decisions.  Which I for one welcome.

I'm curious as to what your contingency-planning in FM will look like. I can basically see two options. 1. You plan for the worst, not signing foreign players, concentrating on home-grown youth, or taking a punt on potential from the Championship. Meanwhile, AI teams ignore the risk, sign up the world's best players, win everything going. 2. You ignore the risk, sign up the best players regardless of future, possible, WP issues. Reap the success, and the financial rewards, and when the hard Brexit reality bites, ship out the foreigners, swallow the loss and reinvest going forward. One of those approaches seems clearly superior to me.

[Maaka]

Sorry bout that last post, strange things happened..

[ajw10]

I really don't get why SI haven't included an option to have Brexit on or not. I really don't see myself buying this game now with this feature in. Shame.

[Per Annum]

Just now, warlock said:

I'm curious as to what your contingency-planning in FM will look like. I can basically see two options. 1. You plan for the worst, not signing foreign players, concentrating on home-grown youth, or taking a punt on potential from the Championship. Meanwhile, AI teams ignore the risk, sign up the world's best players, win everything going. 2. You ignore the risk, sign up the best players regardless of future, possible, WP issues. Reap the success, and the financial rewards, and when the hard Brexit reality bites, ship out the foreigners, swallow the loss and reinvest going forward. One of those approaches seems clearly superior to me.

To be fair there is also a middle option - carry on essentially as normal but with a mild preference to UK players. Just like most IRL managers will probably already have started doing, albeit on a minor scale

[gibbo11]

Just now, ism-scfc said:

People moan about the strangest things?

I think it's great that SI have taken a risk (which this is) to try and incorporate something like this into FM. Personally, I think the more random events the better, as it makes the game more dynamic and makes each save feel different which should be what they are striving to achieve. 

I did wonder how they would approach this actually, but I was expecting it to be more of a static change, and probably not for a couple of versions time. This is much much better than that, I'm looking forward to see what happens in my save now!

They really do, it's rather comical to read!

 

IMO it's a great idea. I think people are taking this to heart too much. Brexit has been voted for and it will happen. Hard Brexit doesn't necessarily mean it will be 'game-breaking' and you'd need to sell all your non-EU players. Existing players can be given the licence to work in the UK (which is probably most likely), so then you'd need to work to whatever the squad rules are. If you don't like it, don't buy it, simple. It will still be the biggest selling game whether you do or don't!

[formerlyiab]

4 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

Then you have to accept that there is a % chance that managing who you want to manage will result in fewer non-EU players in future, just like IRL.

Whether SI will get the % chance right is massive question, and I would be in favour of the optional toggle on the basis of just how difficult that calc is

I want a toggle too which begs the question as to why you're being so obtuse? 

[tmason122]

For me personally, I really love this idea. It adds a level of realism about such an important political decision that I never thought they would consider adding into the game. However, I do think it would have been a good idea to have this a selectable option at the beginning of the save, just like "disabling transfers in the first transfer window" is available, as I can understand that some players do not want experience this kind of instability.

This feature is the one feature that has got me most excited about FM17. Up until now I wasn't considering buying it as I have such a good long-term save on FM16, but with this feature I would love to go and manage my team Newcastle, who I haven't managed since we were last relegated and being them back to the PL under this new uncertainty.

 

[MAVFC9]

1 minute ago, ajw10 said:

I really don't get why SI haven't included an option to have Brexit on or not. I really don't see myself buying this game now with this feature in. Shame.

Exactly how I feel. They must surely realise that a huge amount of people will hate this feature. Not having an option to toggle this on or off is criminal. Not even being able to save and reload at a certain date to get an outcome is ludicrous. I'm sure a lot will cancel their preorder

[CaptainSa]

Just now, gibbo11 said:

They really do, it's rather comical to read!

 

IMO it's a great idea. I think people are taking this to heart too much. Brexit has been voted for and it will happen. Hard Brexit doesn't necessarily mean it will be 'game-breaking' and you'd need to sell all your non-EU players. Existing players can be given the licence to work in the UK (which is probably most likely), so then you'd need to work to whatever the squad rules are. If you don't like it, don't buy it, simple. It will still be the biggest selling game whether you do or don't!

Article 50 hasn't been triggered, and until it does, you can't really say it will happen. And a hard Brexit means you'd have to sell most of your non-UK players. Players like Payet and Kante who would've failed work permit applications had they been from non-EU nations when they came to the Premier League. That's one of the outcomes and it's decided at the start of a save but doesn't come in until much much later. That will be save breaking, definitely.

[formerlyiab]

3 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

To be fair there is also a middle option - carry on essentially as normal but with a mild preference to UK players. Just like most IRL managers will probably already have started doing, albeit on a minor scale

There is no evidence of this. 

The value of the premier league, the salaries of the players involved and the fact that the govt will not want to **** off millions of football fans will all but ensure that premier league football will go on as normal. 

 

[Maaka]

Will FMT be affected by Brexit? If no, then those who want to "have fun and play a game" and not relate to a quite possible future, could go down that road..

Brexit has already been "decided" by the voters. The parliament could opt not to invoke art. 50, but it's most likely that they will. Therefore, there's a strong possibility that Brexit will happen sometime in the foreseeable future.
Thus, it's great that SI have implemented it so soon, so that we can relate to different scenarios involving this major shakeup of the European political landscape (and therefore, also the sporting one).
The only thing I haven't seen, is the possibility for a reversal of the popular vote, meaning Brexit could be cancelled. This should be a possible scenario in-game, in addition to the soft or hard versions, with or without Scottish and/or Northern Irish opt-outs.

[themadsheep2001]

I love the idea. Unpredictable, challenging and game changing

[HUNT3R]

With the amount of work that would have gone into this, changing to non-EU, implementing work permits and the transfer market changing hugely, I can understand why they didn't include a on/off switch for this for anyone to just cut off a lot of work put into the game.

 

I love it. If it happens, great. Whichever scenario happens, I'll deal with it, like I do everything else that happens in the FM world.

[formerlyiab]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

I love the idea. Unpredictable, challenging and game changing

How is randomly changing a save at an undetermined point in the future and implementing an entirely fictional political outcome and rule changes in any way positive. 

[Keyzer Soze]

13 minutes ago, ism-scfc said:

People moan about the strangest things?

I think it's great that SI have taken a risk (which this is) to try and incorporate something like this into FM. Personally, I think the more random events the better, as it makes the game more dynamic and makes each save feel different which should be what they are striving to achieve. 

I did wonder how they would approach this actually, but I was expecting it to be more of a static change, and probably not for a couple of versions time. This is much much better than that, I'm looking forward to see what happens in my save now!

Ok, but why take the risk?

SI never implemented nothing in the game that wasn't already in real life, now decide to in a completely different route.

I could understand if, for example, FM were a game that wasn't released every year, but we will get FM18 and by then with much more information to introduce Brexit in the game without this level of uncertainty.

This look almost like one of those challenges for FMT, and not something for a simulation type of game.

If were going for that kind of strategy, why not start introducing other kind of events:

 

- In 2025 Premier League reduce the number of teams to 16 (or perhaps increase to 24)

- In 2020 Champions League will be substitute by a super European league

and so on...

 

[ism-scfc]

7 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

I really don't get why SI haven't included an option to have Brexit on or not. I really don't see myself buying this game now with this feature in. Shame.

Maybe it isn't that simple? If it has been hard coded into the game, it might not be possible to just turn off without affecting the whole code? 

[Crispypaul]

Just now, Maaka said:

The only thing I haven't seen, is the possibility for a reversal of the popular vote, meaning Brexit could be cancelled. This should be a possible scenario in-game, in addition to the soft or hard versions, with or without Scottish and/or Northern Irish opt-outs.

Apparently it could:

 

[martplfc1]

It is possible that your existing players will be given dispensation, so it's not necessarily the case that hard Brexit = fire sale.

[MAVFC9]

Just now, ism-scfc said:

Maybe it isn't that simple? If it has been hard coded into the game, it might not be possible to just turn off without affecting the whole code? 

Then they should have held off a year til they could've maybe implemented it next year. It's incredible how poorly they've thought this through. I expect quite a backlash.

[Per Annum]

Just now, Crispypaul said:

Apparently it could:

 

TBF the telegraph article essentially says that, as the possiblity A they mention will have the same in-game effect as no brexit (although not the same as each other IRL)

[martplfc1]

1 minute ago, formerlyiab said:

How is randomly changing a save at an undetermined point in the future and implementing an entirely fictional political outcome and rule changes in any way positive. 

Now who's being obtuse?

Plenty of people see this as exciting, it's completely subjective. 

[formerlyiab]

I am minded to start games on holiday until I get an early soft brexit and play from that point onwards. 

[ism-scfc]

1 minute ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Ok, but why take the risk?

SI never implemented nothing in the game that wasn't already in real life, now decide to in a completely different route.

I could understand if, for example, FM were a game that wasn't released every year, but we will get FM18 and by then with much more information to introduce Brexit in the game without this level of uncertainty.

This look almost like one of those challenges for FMT, and not something for a simulation type of game.

 

Well, it's not really something that isn't in real life is it? It is happening whether we like it or not, the only bit we don't know is the extent to which it will happen. So SI have worked around that by coding in a number of possible outcomes all of which are possibilities in real life, even if some have very small percentage chance.

[formerlyiab]

I honestly think that no matter what style of brexit is implemented the premier league will carry on as is.  

[gibbo11]

2 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

It is possible that your existing players will be given dispensation, so it's not necessarily the case that hard Brexit = fire sale.

From what I've read on Twitter, yes. Every possibility is included.

[Crispypaul]

3 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

If were going for that kind of strategy, why not start introducing other kind of events:

 

- In 2025 Premier League reduce the number of teams to 16 (or perhaps increase to 24)

- In 2020 Champions League will be substitute by a super European league

and so on...

 

I could see this happening in the future.  At the moment you can play for 100 years and there are no rule changes except those known at the start.  Seems a little unrealistic given the changes in the last 30 years let alone those beforehand.

[Crispypaul]

1 minute ago, formerlyiab said:

I honestly think that no matter what style of brexit is implemented the premier league will carry on as is.  

There is one "nuclear" option of a limit to non-British players to 4.  That's the worst case scenario, it doesn't mean it will happen.

[Maaka]

1 hour ago, callamity said:

10 minutes ago, Maaka said:

Will FMT be affected by Brexit? If no, then those who want to "have fun and play a game" and not relate to a quite possible future, could go down that road..

Brexit has already been "decided" by the voters. The parliament could opt not to invoke art. 50, but it's most likely that they will. Therefore, there's a strong possibility that Brexit will happen sometime in the foreseeable future.
Thus, it's great that SI have implemented it so soon, so that we can relate to different scenarios involving this major shakeup of the European political landscape (and therefore, also the sporting one).
The only thing I haven't seen, is the possibility for a reversal of the popular vote, meaning Brexit could be cancelled. This should be a possible scenario in-game, in addition to the soft or hard versions, with or without Scottish and/or Northern Irish opt-outs.

 

7 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

Apparently it could:

 

Good.

[gibbo11]

THIS

[Maaka]

Sorry, callamity, I have no idea why I "quoted" you. I swear I didn't try to.

[treble_yell_:-)]

It's all going to be fun and exciting until people start getting the Nuclear option and have saves ranging from 2-7 years long potentially ruined.

It feels like something that should have been a challenge DLC until things are less ambiguous

[kandersson]

Personally I think it's an awesome feature for the game and will make english leagues much more interesting to play - haven't played an english save in years as premier league has become so rich and powerful...

I guess british players become extra-EU for the rest of european countries as well?

[Purple Bane]

3 minutes ago, formerlyiab said:

I honestly think that no matter what style of brexit is implemented the premier league will carry on as is.  

Nah mate, i hear the economy is going to be in a great place so they'll actively want to take another hit by weakening a billion dollar product bringing in absolutely enormous amounts of tax. 3 non brits allowed, no more than one allowed from any single continent.

[ism-scfc]

5 minutes ago, MAVFC9 said:

Then they should have held off a year til they could've maybe implemented it next year. It's incredible how poorly they've thought this through. I expect quite a backlash.

You reckon? 

On this forum maybe, although it seems to be quite a mixed reaction from what I've read, not what I would call a backlash. But it's also been picked up elsewhere, such as this article by the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37692481. FM being mentioned in mainstream media like this is extremely good publicity for SI, make no mistake about it!

[Per Annum]

Brilliant that the possiblity of repeal is even included.

The key to this feature being implemented well was having numerous and varied outcomes. The higher the degree of unpredictability the greater the enjoyment for me

So we have randonmess of:

- date of introduction

- nature of introduction

- extent of nature of introdcution

- repeal or not

 

anything else?

[formerlyiab]

3 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

There is one "nuclear" option of a limit to non-British players to 4.  That's the worst case scenario, it doesn't mean it will happen.

If it does a game that I have sunk potentially 10 seasons into is now ruined and based on rules that dont currently exist. 

[Keyzer Soze]

2 minutes ago, ism-scfc said:

Well, it's not really something that isn't in real life is it? It is happening whether we like it or not, the only bit we don't know is the extent to which it will happen. So SI have worked around that by coding in a number of possible outcomes all of which are possibilities in real life, even if some have very small percentage chance.

But there could also be the case that the real cenario it's something that SI don't have coded in the game.

It's a "guess what" exercise that i think it doesn't make much sence in a simulation game. That's all.

I agree it could be fun, it's challenging, but it shouldn't be in the game atm.

[Purple Bane]

1 minute ago, formerlyiab said:

If it does a game that I have sunk potentially 10 seasons into is now ruined and based on rules that dont currently exist. 

ahh but brexit will happen in the future, so the best way to represent this in a game that is released yearly and patched frequently is a completely random outcome even if it makes no sense. Don't you get it?

[Kazza]

15 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I love the idea. Unpredictable, challenging and game changing

This

[laurencefishbone]

I'm guessing all the posts moaning about this feature are all 'remainers'!

Joking aside, I can't understand why there is criticism of a feature that adds randomness to the game, especially as the game has always had a huge element of randomness about it.  I've had injuries, own goals, missed chances, red cards and penalty decisions have a major affect on many of my games over the years.  The game includes dynamic league reputation, which can cause the rise and fall of particular nations and tycoons and bankruptcy causing the clubs to completely change fortunes.

Every simulation game on the market has features which add randomness, it adds to the gameplay and introduces a whole new level of replayability.  I think it is a great addition to the game.

From looking at the screenshot, there isn't a 'firesale' needed by players the day after the UK leaves the European Union goes live as current players get immunity, so it wouldn't mean carving up your squad.

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, Purple Bane said:

ahh but brexit will happen in the future, so the best way to represent this in a game that is released yearly and patched frequently is a completely random outcome even if it makes no sense. Don't you get it?

World Cup 2022 will happen in Qatar in future (of course, it might not, just like brexit might not happen) but SI made the decision to take the easy option and code that it gets moved.  Constantly.  They didn't sometimes code so it happened in Winter, some that it happened in summer, and some that it got moved.  They just took a decision and stuck to it.

I can completely see the point of the people that don't like it.  

[ism-scfc]

2 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

But there could also be the case that the real cenario it's something that SI don't have coded in the game.

It's a "guess what" exercise that i think it doesn't make much sence in a simulation game. That's all.

I agree it could be fun, it's challenging, but it shouldn't be in the game atm.

What it does is make the game dynamic. More of this please. Uncertainty over economy, currency exchange rates going up and down which could affect transfer fees. Dynamic tax rates which could affect league/national reputation and how much big name players want to come to your country. All yes please for the future!

[Per Annum]

7 minutes ago, formerlyiab said:

If it does a game that I have sunk potentially 10 seasons into is now ruined and based on rules that dont currently exist. 

Again noting we share view that optional toggle would solve many concerns, I think part of why your posts have met some resistance is that you haven't clarified how your save is ruined.
Yes you might have to move some players around, but I guess for many people that doesn't amount to a save being ruined.

[HUNT3R]

So what SI have done is to give the next few years a negative PA. Could turn out good, could be bad. I like.

[ScottGooner]

1 minute ago, laurencefishbone said:

I'm guessing all the posts moaning about this feature are all 'remainers'!

Joking aside, I can't understand why there is criticism of a feature that adds randomness to the game, especially as the game has always had a huge element of randomness about it.  I've had injuries, own goals, missed chances, red cards and penalty decisions have a major affect on many of my games over the years.  The game includes dynamic league reputation, which can cause the rise and fall of particular nations and tycoons and bankruptcy causing the clubs to completely change fortunes.

Every simulation game on the market has features which add randomness, it adds to the gameplay and introduces a whole new level of replayability.  I think it is a great addition to the game.

From looking at the screenshot, there isn't a 'firesale' needed by players the day after the UK leaves the European Union goes live as current players get immunity, so it wouldn't mean carving up your squad.

I am a remainer. But I'm all for Brexit being in the game.

[Maaka]

2 minutes ago, ism-scfc said:

What it does is make the game dynamic. More of this please. Uncertainty over economy, currency exchange rates going up and down which could affect transfer fees. Dynamic tax rates which could affect league/national reputation and how much big name players want to come to your country. All yes please for the future!

Yes, please. 

[Purple Bane]

3 minutes ago, forameuss said:

World Cup 2022 will happen in Qatar in future (of course, it might not, just like brexit might not happen) but SI made the decision to take the easy option and code that it gets moved.  Constantly.  They didn't sometimes code so it happened in Winter, some that it happened in summer, and some that it got moved.  They just took a decision and stuck to it.

I can completely see the point of the people that don't like it.  

I agree.

[laurencefishbone]

2 minutes ago, ScottGooner said:

I am a remainer. But I'm all for Brexit being in the game.

As mentioned, it was a light-hearted suggestion

[Kazza]

4 minutes ago, ScottGooner said:

I am a remainer. But I'm all for Brexit being in the game.

Same