Icelander83 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 With so many new and young players in some cases, we're going to misfire in some games. Give them time... But... but... the doom? And the gloom? Can't we have that too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 But... but... the doom? And the gloom? Can't we have that too? You can, if you make Newcastle your second team, then you will surely experience the real doom and gloom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 But... but... the doom? And the gloom? Can't we have that too? Wait till we lose next week at least Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohanzee Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 People probably just remember the "good old days", when we could actually completely dominate average teams in the league. I know I'm guilty of that, and it's really very naive of me. The average (and even bottom) teams in this league are so good now it's unrealistic to believe we're gonna outplay them (unless they have a really bad day). Tiny margins and individual brilliance will decide the outcome more often than not. Which is probably why referees get so much stick as well. Bad decisions have so much more of an impact nowadays. I think it will be some time before I accept this though. I'm still gonna bitch the next game when we create absolutely nothing in 45 minutes. And I'm definitely gonna bitch the next time a referee makes a big mistake against us. I just can't help it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Wait till we lose next week at least But we drew against Newcastle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 But we drew against Newcastle? Really? Couldn't tell... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 fair about darmian. will be great once he's more settled and gets some ENGLISH strength and conditioning under his belt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 People probably just remember the "good old days", when we could actually completely dominate average teams in the league. I know I'm guilty of that, and it's really very naive of me. The average (and even bottom) teams in this league are so good now it's unrealistic to believe we're gonna outplay them (unless they have a really bad day). Tiny margins and individual brilliance will decide the outcome more often than not. Which is probably why referees get so much stick as well. Bad decisions have so much more of an impact nowadays. I don't think it's that so much as we seem capable of so much more than our performances but are constraining ourselves still. We've clearly got a very good gameplan against sides we're expecting to match or better us, or for when we're in front. The problem is that most teams aren't set out to outplay us, and fewer are likely to be inclined to when we're so toothless at picking through sides (see Chelsea away last season) - and we're not going to be starting with a goal lead any time soon. This is consistent with LvG's noted obsession with the transitional phase of regaining possession and striking before the opposition is organised. But tactics have evolved since van Gaal's heyday and too many teams these days are too cautious and/or well drilled to be in sufficient disarray for us to benefit unless they're chasing a goal. The teams who are likely try and go toe-to-toe with us are also those best placed to match us for talent. As a result we're still relying on luck or one or more moments of inspiration (or, based on the last two weeks, a set piece) to make that initial breakthrough to allow the tactics to flourish. This is obviously wrongheaded - we're using plan B as plan A. This is further compromised by LvG's dislike for invention. We've got Depay and Martial offering it at the moment but I suspect they will only be tolerated while they produce - Depay's hooking against Liverpool may be a sign of things to come. Even if they continue to be trusted and deliver it's an awful lot of pressure on two young players. The defence is very well organised; but we're terribly prone to individual lapses; but we've got Dave. Slice it however you want, we're probably as tight a unit as we're going to be and isolated idiocy is likely to be offset by de Gea's brilliance. Having established a solid base the focus should therefore be on how to produce going forwards. Between Mata, Rooney, Young, Herrera, Schweinsteiger and now Depay and Martial there's enough creativity and penetration to ask questions of most sides, but they need to be let of the leash a bit. Organisation at the back; inspiration up top. The problem with training carefully rehearsed repeatable patterns is that they become easy to defend against, particularly when the opponent has little interest in making a decent fist of attacking, so everything is in front of the defence. It seems little coincidence to me that much of our better football last season came when enforced changes in personnel reshaped the tactics. Once the team became settled, the quality diminished. What I don't get is how long LvG is going to continue like this. I think this is where the big divide over people who are happy as long as the results keep rolling in and those who question the performances lies. Is van Gaal happy to depend on undercooked backpasses, absent lino flags and a couple or three top drawer saves per match? Judging by last season and repeated description of our impotent play as 'dominant' this season you would presume so. How many Swansea's, Newcastle's or (take your pick of the most uninspiring displays from last season)'s would it take? But presumably the ends justify the means, and fourth place last season irrespective of any other factors is sufficient. I gather they call him 'the Lucky One' in the Netherlands, but it's not how I'd want to do it. Cracking when we're in the lead mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Anyway, Ipswich on Wednesday. I'd go with this team. --------------Romero McNair--Smalling--Blind--Rojo -----Herrera---Schneiderlin Pereira------Rooney-----Young --------------Wilson Going too gung-ho with youth players perversely does youth no favours. They end up with no leaders around then and it strips away any actual opportunity they have to shine. My thoughts with this is; - Romero should get a game - The Smalling-Blind-Rojo unit need more time to gel now that Shaw is out. The right side seems fairly steady so McNair in at rightback to give him game time. - Strong central midfield to control the game and make sure we have plenty of the ball. - Young in there for game time and as our most consistent deliverer from wide areas it will be important for Wilson. - Pereira because... well, why not? - Rooney playing again because frankly he needs to improve and dropping him almost never helps. The last confidence boosting stroll vs a crap team didn't work but I'm ever the optimist. I'm loath to break any consistency we have between games because we've played so long without any real attacking focal point it's impossible to build anything. Seems a shame to waste a chance to disrupt Depay/Mata/Martial's understanding but we need to give Wilson and Pereira a chance. It's no wonder we've been flat in attack for so long when the only competent striker performances we'd have have been a 5-6 game spell from RvP around xmas last year, the Rooney spell towards the end of last season. At least during those periods we've played decent football I suppose. We're relying on Martial at the moment but you can't expect that to last with him being 19 but hopefully it lasts. I still think we're a striker and centerback away from a proper title challenge but we'll at least make it interesting for City this year I'd hope. Unless anything drastic happens we'll only need 2 (3 with De Gea) high quality players in the window, if we get them then our squad is in a fantastic place to challenge on all fronts. There is visible progress though, which is important. We're doing about as well as can be expected given our personnel problem, if we have 3 or 4 freakish performances then who knows this season? Going to be harder without Shaw though as it looked like he was in that kind of form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseboy64 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Wall of text so I'm going to be simple in reply. From what I've seen so far and heard it's unlikely LVG is intentionally restricting us. We're supposed to keep possession until the final third and draw the opposition out of their organisation. The front 4 and the fullbacks have licence to be creative and go at the opponents. Problem is we're not penetrating enough in the final 3rd. There's a leash but it's a very loose leash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Snip Pretty good observation, without some great slices of luck, we get thrashed yesterday. LvG will train the creativity out of Martial and Memphis in no time or leave them out ala Di Maria and Nani Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Wall of text so I'm going to be simple in reply. From what I've seen so far and heard it's unlikely LVG is intentionally restricting us. We're supposed to keep possession until the final third and draw the opposition out of their organisation. The front 4 and the fullbacks have licence to be creative and go at the opponents. Problem is we're not penetrating enough in the final 3rd. There's a leash but it's a very loose leash. This, it's a personnel problem. The idea that van Gaal is trying to block creativity is and was silly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 This, it's a personnel problem. The idea that van Gaal is trying to block creativity is and was silly. If creativity leads to loss of possession, LvG will nix it. The leash is on and the results justify it so we are relatively happy. RSB made the point though, what happens when the results don't? As could easily be the case yesterday. LvG spent a ton of cash and sold a load so he has his preferred personnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Development rate is a funny thing, James Wilson is 4 days older than Martial. Wilson looks so much older than Martial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's nonsense, Di Maria was left out not because he was too much of a maverick, he was left out because after the burglary his head wasn't with it and it was showing in his performances. The odd moment of brilliance doesn't excuse all-round lethargy. Nani was binned for the same reason Rafael was, he's never fit for long. Jones will be the next to go because of this and it won't be because LvG doesn't like his devastating passing range, it will be because you can't rely on him. If the results don't come. It could have been the case but it wasn't was it? Maybe he's just the second luckiest man alive after Fergie... I mean aside from one of the worst injury crisis' in the clubs history last season and his best outfield player breaking his leg 5 games into the season. Fergie had plenty of similarly lucky victories and he was Fergie, your incidences of luck tend to increase proportionally with how good you are. And maybe that's the case if when buying a player you were given a vaguely humanoid blob and the more money you inserted into the machine the better the player became. Alas you're buying from a limited player pool and competing with other teams for players. I'm not going to change your mind about however you interpret what happened during the transfer window but I have my opinion on what we needed and what actually happened. And Wilson's problem is he lacks game time at the highest level. Give him 50 appearances in the top league and he'd be much closer to the finished article than he currently is. We've not had the luxury of being in that position though, he really should have gone on loan last January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Whilst lvg's style is mostly about possession, the idea that he'll train creativity out of players is ridiculous. It's just a case of holding it back until it's needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Is Jones fit again? Would like him to be given the chance to stay fit and grow like Smalling. Last chance for him I feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 If the results don't come. It could have been the case but it wasn't was it? always this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
14AlanSmithifb Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Is Jones fit again?Would like him to be given the chance to stay fit and grow like Smalling. Last chance for him I feel. Was in training last week, although would say the Ipswich game comes too soon for him personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Johnstone, Lingard and Wilson all played 90 mins tonight. Based on that I'd be looking for something like Romero Darmian McNair Rojo Blind Herrera Schweinsteiger Pereira Rooney Young Martial think we need to try switching Rojo and Blind. Sunderland might not get as much joy as Southampton did in the first half an hour but Wolfsburg, Arsenal and Everton certainly could. I'd like to see Herrera back in at CM and to continue to build Basti's fitness. Would ideally rest Martial but I don't want Fellaini up there again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Beckham Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Is Man Utd's game on any tv channels today then ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Beckham Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Sorry I meant tomorrow, found out it is on Bein Sports and a few other obscure channels which I aint allowed to post in here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal_guitarist Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 No Wilson or Lingard: Young duo James Wilson and Jesse Lingard won’t be required to face Ipswich after they both scored in 90-minute displays for the Under-21s against Everton on Monday. The manager added: "I don’t need them so they can have a day off and then Thursday they will be fresh and can train." Ridiculous decision, they need minutes and are far too good for U21s football. Get them out on loan if you won't play them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Rojo and McNair are both out too through injury. Sounds like Rojo will be out for 3 weeks and has pissed off LvG again as he was aware of it before he came on at the weekend but didn't tell the staff. Could be the youth record gone on the weekend depending how bad McNair is. Jones to be on the bench due to the lack of defensive numbers but only really fit for 30 mins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Shouldn't have let Blackett go. Is Vlaar still without a club? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Hope Pereira starts. He isn't injured, is he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Our fullbacks are Valencia and Young today. Hope Darmian is only dropped for this game only, and Jones is back on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Valencia was always likely, so Fellaini aside that's a good line-up. Scandal that there's no academy players on the bench though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 De Gea, Valencia, Smalling, Blind, Young, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Mata, Fellaini, Pereira, Rooney Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 LvG's probably a little too cautious about avoiding a repeat of MK Dons last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Awful decision making that Wilson and Lingard aren't in the squad. Pleased with the line up bar those two mind, happy to see Martial is rested for the weekend, Rooney for as good a chance as any in these next two games... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 3753rd game in a row with an academy graduate in the matchday squad. Should've been more tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal_guitarist Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 A Pereira special... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 A Pereira special... Always great to see a youth player scoring He's played well too I think, should be very close to the first team. Heh, just as I wrote that, he almost scored another! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 What an absolute waste of money Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It's becoming almost routine now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal_guitarist Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Very impressed with Pereira tonight, didn't look out of place. Was a tad greedy at times but otherwise looked good. Hopefully he'll get more opportunities sooner rather than later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Martial has it, all of it all the time. What a buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 In the long term he'll probably be moulded into a Thierry Henry-esque player, where his speed isn't so vital anymore and he can just rely on natural class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Martial's composure is just brilliant. 4 in 4. Didn't watch the game, but read good things about Pereira and Schweinsteiger. I'm delighted that the new signings are beginning to gel. I could say we bought well, I guess? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 As many goals in 4 games as Falcao managed in a season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 And less than Lewandowski in 45 minutes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Also Basti giving De Gea the armband that's a good lad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Don't really care much for the League Cup, haven't for a long time but was considering watching the match later. However, I loggedi n to FB without thinking and saw we had won so just watched the highlights. Looks like we were pretty comfortable throughout and Pereira looks like he had a good game. Great freekick. Also, yet another thoroughly composed finish from Martial, what a buy he is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryseaess Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Martial is quality. He just doesn't look like missing when through on goal, the last player we had like that was RvN. Let's hope he can keep it up. Schweinsteiger is easily the best signing we made all summer, oozes class that lad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 How would United fans rate this summer's transfer window then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 At the same time 10/10 and something like 2/10 We've bought well, there's no player we brought in that I don't see the logic in buying (that I can remember, at least). On the other hand, we are a couple of injuries away from complete disaster due to lack of quality cover. Heck, we've already had one such injury and we're going to feel the effect of that for a good while. I'd probably rate the window at 8/10 or so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I do think this is one of the best summers United have had for a while. The only questionable signing was Martial and he's starting to prove his worth, while the only one who hasn't played has been the kid from Newport County but he was bought to be a youth player so that's moot. Romero's proven a fairly capable understudy, Darmian's been useful at RB, Bastian's loved by United fans, Depay looks handy. A lot of the deadweight is gone now too, although the sale of Rafael wasn't popular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 How would United fans rate this summer's transfer window then This was discussed earlier, think I said 7-8 of 10 then, and would stick with that really. We made some great signings early on, but never got that CB we all hoped for. Martial has obviously got off to a great start, and here's hoping he keeps that up. He looks really, really good already, so cool in front of goal. Not losing DDG is a big factor too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Apart from Falcao (and I still see the logic in that) we haven't really bought a player I've disagreed with. Rojo, Blind etc. maybe aren't starter quality in an ideal world but we needed bodies, we needed a player like AdM even if he didn't work out. In a perfect window we'd have gotten a top class striker and a top quality central defender but since Ramos was a no-go and someone at the club wasn't keen on Otamendi I'm not sure who else would be available. Maybe Martial will be good enough for us to not need a striker in the near future, fingers crossed. I think we've been 7.5-8/10 both seasons under LvG so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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