Mikke Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Si should probably just close the thread, the usual suspects have been a long to tell us that the patch was awesome and everything is fine (hilariously including a congratulations for fixing throw ins even after Neil told us they are struggling to fix them) As you can see, positive feedback is still allowed, so that's no reason to close the thread. So far it does look like throw-ins have been fixed, maybe not completely but for the most part. With the release of the latest update for Football Manager 2013, as always we're interested in hearing all your thoughts in regards to theMatch Engine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treble_yell_:-) Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Maybe SI should consider some sort of user opt-in data collection in future.......... Obviously they do testing in-house, but allowing data collection from users saves would provide a much larger pool of data for them to work with, and would be something I would be happy to opt into in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Maybe SI should consider some sort of user opt-in data collection in future..........Obviously they do testing in-house, but allowing data collection from users saves would provide a much larger pool of data for them to work with, and would be something I would be happy to opt into in the future. Agreed,not sure why they have not done something like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yeah that would be a good idea like, id easily opt into something like that. Soak tests are one thing, but there is no subsitute for user feedback, its just a shame most of the feedback they get are from these kinds of threads which must make it next to impossible to see what actually needs to be changed. Personally i wouldnt even allow a feeback thread until at least a week after the update has been released, but that would cause chaos on here with all those feeling like they are owe the world for buying a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treble_yell_:-) Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yeah that would be a good idea like, id easily opt into something like that.Soak tests are one thing, but there is no subsitute for user feedback, its just a shame most of the feedback they get are from these kinds of threads which must make it next to impossible to see what actually needs to be changed. Personally i wouldnt even allow a feeback thread until at least a week after the update has been released, but that would cause chaos on here with all those feeling like they are owe the world for buying a game. These thread allow all the angst to be kept within one thread I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovEs Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 If that nonleague chump doesn't stop saying 'Mr' everything I hope he is choked to death. Cheers for dark skin and being able to view results now without waiting days. Should have been there from the start mind, especially the dark skin, cosmetic stuff that shouldn't take long to sort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 These thread allow all the angst to be kept within one thread I guess. Not just the angst SI are pretty skilled at sorting the wheat from the chaff although it would be nice if people could just talk about what they perceive as genuine issues, rather than using the thread as a substitute for Mortal Kombat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 not just the angst si are pretty skilled at sorting the wheat from the chaff although it would be nice if people could just talk about what they perceive as genuine issues, rather than using the thread as a substitute for mortal kombat finish him!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardanwen Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 More attacking runs and long shots were very much needed... but the attacking runs are simply way too much. I play Chelsea (now second season) with an attacking, short passing game with fairly high tempo (for a short passing game), which worked quite well pre-patch. Often had 60-75% possession against all but the best teams. Won most games, with often a lot of goals for me, but nothing overpowered. Had a lot of draws as well. Falcao in january had scored already 24 goals in EPL. Now post patch... While it is nice to see Hazard and Oscar making awesome runs over half the pitch ripping apart the opposition's defense and scoring as well, it's just too much. Almost no killer balls any more, Falcao is set up as targetman but he simply doesn't receive the ball any more. Even my designated playmaker prefers to dribble 4 defenders and score, about which I can't complain of course (as long as he does score), but it's silly when three players are free and in a dangerous and much easier scoring position. Have also seen crosses floating into the goal a lot more often now. Azplicueta managed to score from the corner flag... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonleague Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Although in the Championship the goals are still fine but the dribbling stats... Must just be the league you play in? Although I have to say despite those stats I have actually noticed too much dribbling in my games. The top 11 players are exceptionally high and tbh all of those are high in comparison to real life. It could well be down to it only happening in the particular division that you're playing in 'provided' that the players in that particular division have the capabilities to dribble exceptionally well. Please note, these Messi dribbles will only occur if the player has a PPM that warrants to run with the ball of some kind and is even higher if that player does not have a 'passing' PPM listed ie 'tries killer balls', 'plays simple passes' etc. Players I have witnessed have ultra exceptional dribbles per match have been Nathan Dyer, Aaron Lennon, Wilfried Zaha, Eden Hazard that's just to name a few but if you go and check there PPMs that will give you a rough idea of what I am talking about. I did a test as Bristol City, Season 1 in holiday mode and had Paul Anderson average 7.71 dribbles per match. Go look at his PPM (as I can't remember off-hand what it shows). No way in the world should this guy ever be getting that dribble rating. Guys, in real life the 'real' Mr Messi averages just over 5 dribbles per match with Eden Hazard averaging 3.8 and Raheem Sterling 2.5 average. This gives you clarification that not only are the wizard dribbles unrealistic and I am assuming will be fixed, but that all of the dribbling averages even without these wizard runs are exceptionally high if we are wanting this game to replicate 'real' life. Dribbling, Tackling, Distance Covered, Shots, this all needs to be toned down. Players who run 8.9 miles a match is ridiculous when the average Premier League player runs 7 miles a match, and should I not add, that a player making 6+ tackles per match is also insane given that the highest tackling midfielders in 'real life' make almost 5 per match. The average player in the Premier League will dribble once, yes that's right, ONCE per match! But still guys, it's xmas, go watch the movie I made of the angry gamer and enjoy your xmas then come back here to rant afterwards! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonleague Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 If that nonleague chump doesn't stop saying 'Mr' everything I hope he is choked to death. Cheers for dark skin and being able to view results now without waiting days. Should have been there from the start mind, especially the dark skin, cosmetic stuff that shouldn't take long to sort. Now that's not a nice thing to say is it Mr DovEs.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam jameson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 More attacking runs and long shots were very much needed... but the attacking runs are simply way too much. I play Chelsea (now second season) with an attacking, short passing game with fairly high tempo (for a short passing game), which worked quite well pre-patch. Often had 60-75% possession against all but the best teams. Won most games, with often a lot of goals for me, but nothing overpowered. Had a lot of draws as well. Falcao in january had scored already 24 goals in EPL. Now post patch... While it is nice to see Hazard and Oscar making awesome runs over half the pitch ripping apart the opposition's defense and scoring as well, it's just too much. Almost no killer balls any more, Falcao is set up as targetman but he simply doesn't receive the ball any more. Even my designated playmaker prefers to dribble 4 defenders and score, about which I can't complain of course (as long as he does score), but it's silly when three players are free and in a dangerous and much easier scoring position. Have also seen crosses floating into the goal a lot more often now. Azplicueta managed to score from the corner flag... I note that you also play with a top team, in a top league with top players, I'm even more firm in the opinion that the problem is related to the level of the team/player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam jameson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Not just the angst SI are pretty skilled at sorting the wheat from the chaff although it would be nice if people could just talk about what they perceive as genuine issues, rather than using the thread as a substitute for Mortal Kombat Hi Kriss, in a constructive mood, what do you think of the theory that the problems related to the update only arise with top teams/top players? Maybe related to the rating in particular skills (speed, dribbling, long shots)? what's your opinion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonleague Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I note that you also play with a top team, in a top league with top players, I'm even more firm in the opinion that the problem is related to the level of the team/player Only thing is look at that screenshot above, James Henry of Millwall is not a top player. I also had Paul Anderson of bristol City average of 7 dribbles per match. These players no longer want to pass the ball, just run and run. But I do agree to some extent, it is mainly the top league that this is happening with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam jameson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Only thing is look at that screenshot above, James Henry of Millwall is not a top player. I also had Paul Anderson of bristol City average of 7 dribbles per match. These players no longer want to pass the ball, just run and run. But I do agree to some extent, it is mainly the top league that this is happening with. I agree, maybe that's not the Colombo's egg, but could be just a clue to understand the problem...maybe the players you mentioned have a particularly hig level in some skill, is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 From what i have gathered its cos in the top leagues there are players who are world class, and even within that league there are huge disparities in abilities, between say Rooney and someone in Wigan. If you think about it there are really only 4 good sides with great players..a handful of teams have one or two great players but average players around them, and most others have average players. Because the me is a bit more realistic at things like collision physics now as well..players who have good OTB can run circles around these players. So you will see your messis. But when two similar sides go head to head then we dont see so much of this, whcih is why in the lower leagues where the disparities arent that huge the occurrences arent that common. At least thats what I think. It was based on that logic that I went to set up the tackling priorities and I have to admit its made a huge difference to our performance. When the patch first came out, i was like wth, who died and made everyone i was meeting Messi? Once i got past meeting the big 4 which i did in quick succession, I started to notice that the same wasnt the case with every team. At the end of the day if a player has good acceleration and pace and is better than your fullback, you need to accept the fact that unless you tell your fullback to tackle hard, that winger is gonna skin him 9/10 times. You cant expect someone to follow a ferrari if hes driving a jeep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter T Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 you are one of the few lucky people who actually saw FBs tackle wingers in FM13/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas46 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Ok so Erik Lamela just made 25 dribbles for me in one game, come on guys, really? Also players seem to be taking throw ins from a yard inside the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yeah i think rashidi is right, its only really affecting certain types of players, those like Bale, or the man himself, who have high pace and dribbling attributes. The further down the leagues you go, the fewer and further between these players become and so you tend to not really see this. That theory definitely ties into my game. The one player i am seeing an issue with is the one player who is quick and can dribble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckelly989 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Although in the Championship the goals are still fine but the dribbling stats... Must just be the league you play in? Although I have to say despite those stats I have actually noticed too much dribbling in my games. Playing as Crystal Palace at the moment. Looks like it's time to bring Zaha in from his self-imposed exile (90k a week you must be joking) and exploit this engine! Was largely ineffective on the wing as he has mince stats apart form pace and dribbling, but it seems thats all you need now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yeah i think rashidi is right, its only really affecting certain types of players, those like Bale, or the man himself, who have high pace and dribbling attributes. The further down the leagues you go, the fewer and further between these players become and so you tend to not really see this. That theory definitely ties into my game. The one player i am seeing an issue with is the one player who is quick and can dribble. There does seem to be logic behind the theory, and therefore presumably logic in my assumption that it can be exploited to a degree by training dribbling / run with ball type PPMs in suitable players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 There does seem to be logic behind the theory, and therefore presumably logic in my assumption that it can be exploited to a degree by training dribbling / run with ball type PPMs in suitable players? Yeah if you wanted to exploit it, you could start training players to learn these PPM's in suitable players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 adpot What's that then? Is it some kind of cooking dish? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I'm pretty sure that the high scoring games are due to closing down (which tends to drag players all over the place) and combine that with attacking wingbacks (with good stats of course) you will definately tear the opposition appart. I was experiencing it on some old saves I had, so just to be sure, I started a new game with Barcelona just to see what situations some people could be in. I beat Real Madrid with 7-0 in the first half of the first season... Screenshot:http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/885220845191298748/3F9FC8764FE271E8DC12FF920E0AD7556E63AB05/ I can imagine if you, several years down the line, create a great team - you will be most likely destroying everything in your path (with abnormally high scores)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas46 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I'm pretty sure that the high scoring games are due to closing down (which tends to drag players all over the place) and combine that with attacking wingbacks (with good stats of course) you will definately tear the opposition appart. I was experiencing it on some old saves I had, so just to be sure, I started a new game with Barcelona just to see what situations some people could be in. I beat Real Madrid with 7-0 in the first half of the first season...Screenshot:http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/885220845191298748/3F9FC8764FE271E8DC12FF920E0AD7556E63AB05/ I can imagine if you, several years down the line, create a great team - you will be most likely destroying everything in your path (with abnormally high scores)... I expect you could get Messi to score 150 goals a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haunted1234 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 i think too that the match engine doesnt show imbalance between 2 bad teams, it just comes out when a very good team faces a very bad team, and since most of the people here have teams that already winning the league 10 times inna row, they gonna crush the weaker oppositions even harder in this patch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Michael Burling Posted December 21, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted December 21, 2012 Can I please repeat my plea for people who are finding that they consistently win every game by say 5 or more goals please upload there save game for us. We are looking into these issues and it would be a great help to us. How to do it can be found here http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/319072 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Hi Kriss, in a constructive mood, what do you think of the theory that the problems related to the update only arise with top teams/top players? Maybe related to the rating in particular skills (speed, dribbling, long shots)? what's your opinion? I had to arrange a friendly against River Plate to test it out, they have two players with dribbling 18 & 19. They were both unstoppable whereas my best dribbler (12) couldn't dribble on a Rusk:( so I think it's highly likely the theory is based in fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Do you need PKM's of long shots and insane dribbling wingers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam jameson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 further step of the theory: relevant attributes are pace, speed, dribbling... the only time I saw a mad run in the lower leagues was against an AI winger with 16 in speed and 14 in pace Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Maybe there will be a hotfix for Christmas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Do you need PKM's of long shots and insane dribbling wingers? PKMs of everything will always be helpful, even if they already have some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Michael Burling Posted December 21, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted December 21, 2012 Do you need PKM's of long shots and insane dribbling wingers? It's people's save games we are looking for now daz, rather than just individual game pkms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
penza Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Maybe there will be a hotfix for Christmas doubt that! they worked this hard to get this out before x-mas and to be honest everyone was saying not enough shots.. too hard now too easy and too many shots! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 doubt that! they worked this hard to get this out before x-mas and to be honest everyone was saying not enough shots.. too hard now too easy and too many shots! However Kriss did say that if the game needs a dramatic change there will be a hotfix. Judging by the feedback around 75-90% of people have made complaints about the new update Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiesto123456 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Anyone find these new patches ruining there tactics?? 13 points clear, than new patch and thats it my tactic out the window!! Team cant play football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam jameson Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Anyone find these new patches ruining there tactics?? 13 points clear, than new patch and thats it my tactic out the window!! Team cant play football. in lower leagues for me no problem; same tactic, good response Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big daddy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 However Kriss did say that if the game needs a dramatic change there will be a hotfix. Judging by the feedback around 75-90% of people have made complaints about the new update. Some have complained about the tactic. I started a new game with inter and everything is normal there. My old save with man utd is not ok, so perhaps the update does not work with old saves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiesto123456 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 i been playing with arsenal been playing with a possession tactic i made my self. Than patch comes, defenders making stupid mistakes, players underperforming especially in AMC, MC. I tried tweaking it but just gets worse so annoyed thought was going to have really good season now i am in march i am in 1st but only by a thread all teams catching up, i might have to start from scratch :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 It's people's save games we are looking for now daz, rather than just individual game pkms. Ok, I sent a PKM - but after reading this I also sent the save game. I have stored an earlier version of that savegame where I saved just before the friendly matches if you would like to see that one too...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex Hammer Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Well I just saw the most bizarre penalty shootout. Was 4-3 ahead with all good penalties but my keeper made a great save on one. Then inexplicably my next three players chipped the ball slowly straight into their keepers arms!! Granted one of theirs did it as well but three in a row?! You would have thought they would have learned after the first Muppet ballsed it up!! Really felt I was not destined to win that shootout. All this against Huddersfield at home who had 12 shots, with 6 on target to my 6 shots with one on target. Only days after I narrowly lost 3-2 at Arsenal.. All very much a lottery I'm afraid. One thing I have noticed is that if you play a 4-4-2 against a 4-5-1 no matter if you have superior players you get overrun in midfield. Cannot fond a way at all to play a 4-4-2 in this incarnation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Michael Burling Posted December 21, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted December 21, 2012 Ok, I sent a PKM - but after reading this I also sent the save game. I have stored an earlier version of that savegame where I saved just before the friendly matches if you would like to see that one too...? That would probably be quite helpful than you. What have you called the save? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 One thing I have noticed is that if you play a 4-4-2 against a 4-5-1 no matter if you have superior players you get overrun in midfield. Cannot fond a way at all to play a 4-4-2 in this incarnation. I've a very simple tactical approach which does generally work. With a flat 4-4-2, you are playing an opponent with no DM strata players, and no AMC strata players. Granted, some will have attack or defend duties to make them stray in and out of those strata, but it is not the same as physically locating a player there. As such, against a flat 4-4-2, you could try a narrow 4-2-3-1 (MCs, not DMs) and exploit the middle. This way you have 3 AMC roles in the space between their defence and midfield, and by playing narrow and exploiting the middle, you outnumber their MCs 5 to 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertPage Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The game is quite amusing at the moment. I found my self 8-0 down to spurs (i was champions last season) after 60mins, i raged quit, played the game again an hour later (no changes at all and started with same touchline instructions) and won 3-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonleague Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Just had a look at the statistics for end of season 2 with patch 13.1.3 and you can clearly see big discrepancies. Patch 13.1.3 Season 2 Patch 13.2 Season 1 Notice the big differences in all 3 of these fields. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The game is quite amusing at the moment. I found my self 8-0 down to spurs (i was champions last season) after 60mins, i raged quit, played the game again an hour later (no changes at all and started with same touchline instructions) and won 3-1. And if it was the same result.. you , or several 100 others would be on here crying blue murder for the fixed results and scripted games.. I fail to see what is wrong with what happened in your game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 However Kriss did say that if the game needs a dramatic change there will be a hotfix. Judging by the feedback around 75-90% of people have made complaints about the new update The hilarious thing is the content of the complaints... People are crying blue murder about how they can't attack or shoot or pass anymore .. and then you go down a few posts and you see people complaining that it's TOO attacking, and TOO goal mad... It clearly needs tweaking still, but at the same time you have to realise that SI have a monumental task in balancing it right and pleasing everyone.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 That would probably be quite helpful than you. What have you called the save? The save I sent I called Barca2 - the save I made prior to that one I called Barca (which I am just about to send)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 However Kriss did say that if the game needs a dramatic change there will be a hotfix. Judging by the feedback around 75-90% of people have made complaints about the new update Quoting figures you made up in your head doesn't lend credence to your statement and SI don't judge the need for a hot fix on the number of complaints on here but on actual evidence that it's required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobble2002 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 A couple of points i have noticed Goalies picking up the ball and their momentum taking them either well outside the box or over the goal line and neither a free kick or corner given , just play continues A team takes a free kick into the box and another player runs in and heads it into the goal to score . This invariably causes the scorer to become injured Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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