Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

[jmr]

I have no issue with losing to Bradford in the cup in isolation. I mean what does it matter? It is a small cup which isn't important and it is the cup it happens a lot just ask Man U. If we climb the table and progress in the CL does this even matter by the end of the season? Nope. However will we do those things I have mentioned? That is the question not this pretty meaningless defeat.

When you haven't won a trophy for god knows how long then I reckon the coca cola cup becomes a bit more important. Not like you chucked some reserves and kids in either, that was almost a full strength side.

[jamez91]

Wenger out. Gervinho, Ramsey and Vermaelen need to **** off. Chamberlain needs to go out on loan. Podolski can follow the other three out of the door actually.

I agree with you on everything you have just said. I found myself saying all this during the course of the match apart from saying Podolski needs to play upfront and not wide left.

Utter disgrace.

[Carmi88]

So going by our best players, Wilshere is gonna get sold in the summer

[SJ234]

but with the no trophy in 8 years in full effect and a bunch of 'big' clubs already out it is a good opportunity to really make an impact on a cup and a trophy

When you haven't won a trophy for god knows how long then I reckon the coca cola cup becomes a bit more important. Not like you chucked some reserves and kids in either, that was almost a full strength side.

Tbh I would love to win it but compared to CL qualification I couldn't give a **** about it. So important financially, and for the signing of players.

[jmr]

It's not one or the other.

[ArsenalFan7]

Progressing past Bradford with your strongest team shouldn't be hard though and progressing wouldn't have had any major disadvantage on chances for 4th. Could go ahead and do both. Getting bored of it all now.

There is no positive to this, it's just ****ing ****.

[jamez91]

Not one person can have any excuses as to why the team and manager shouldn't get major criticism for tonights result. Saying we don't care about it we want CL qualifitication more or saying we only lost on the lottery of penalties. This is all a smokescreen the problem is the players we have haven't been good enough and the money isn't being wisely invested. Gervinho and Chamberlain cost hefty fees iirc and Ramsey shouldn't be playing in the first team let alone out of position of the right hand side.

Bad management. End of. Wenger...............I am a fan of you and I look at you as a legend of the club but I am this close to saying the three letter word that is on most other fans lips.

[SJ234]

It's not one or the other.

of course it isn't but if at the end of the season we have champions league football this becomes irrelevant it doesn't matter in comparison. There are more important things and if we do them then Wenger has done enough for now.

[Hershie]

'f*ck off' isn't a three letter word.

[ArsenalFan7]

I don't understand why you do not want the Carling Cup win though as well, I'm bored of just qualifying for the champions league everywhere with no reward, ever. It's not entertaining.

[SJ234]

Not one person can have any excuses as to why the team and manager shouldn't get major criticism for tonights result. Saying we don't care about it we want CL qualifitication more or saying we only lost on the lottery of penalties. This is all a smokescreen the problem is the players we have haven't been good enough and the money isn't being wisely invested. Gervinho and Chamberlain cost hefty fees iirc and Ramsey shouldn't be playing in the first team let alone out of position of the right hand side.

Bad management. End of. Wenger...............I am a fan of you and I look at you as a legend of the club but I am this close to saying the three letter word that is on most other fans lips.

It isn't an excuse it is perspective. In reality we have to think will we achieve the important things with Wenger this season? Which is champions league football tbh. That is the question

[Razzler]

Tbh I would love to win it but compared to CL qualification I couldn't give a **** about it. So important financially, and for the signing of players.

I really don't think another 3 games will make much difference in terms of CL qualification.

[Razzler]

Is there any point in getting rid of Wenger if the new Manager doesn't have any money to spend? You're getting into the CL repeatedly, would another manager do this under the same situation as Wenger?

Rumours of Ancelotti not staying at PSG and Wenger being favoured there

[Heartwork]

I'd love to see Bradford reach the final now for teh lulz. Mon Chelsea getting beaten tomorrow.

[ajw10]

When you haven't won a trophy for god knows how long then I reckon the coca cola cup becomes a bit more important. Not like you chucked some reserves and kids in either, that was almost a full strength side.

Exactly. There is no positive spin on this. Worst night of my Arsenal supporting life this.

Wenger: "I cannot fault the effort of my team. "

[SJ234]

I really don't think another 3 games will make much difference in terms of CL qualification.

Not my point. My point is does it matter we lose this? Ultimately no. What matters is we get into the CL for next season and then think about what next at the end of the season

[chris79]

I enjoy seeing us fail at times because it gives me hope someone will see change is needed.

Sort of what I think, too. Maybe Wenger, being stubborn as he is (not necessarily a bad thing, in the long run possibly positive, as it prevents from making hasty and rushed changes), needs a strong impulse to change things, players, formations etc. 2-8 results that sort of thing. I hoped it was Swansea game, now I hope that's it.

Looks like Arsene is really lost in terms of tactics and team selection. Taking off the best player to bring on Chamakh. Well we needed a striker to have started the game but why take Coq off?? Waiting to bring the more 'cultured' attacking players to the moment when they were a lot less likely to be effective as the whole team was getting very impatient and hurrying things. Playing Podolski at all. Taking Ramsey there at all.

Mentally, I'd say just a few players were really up for it. Wilshere, Szczesny, Coquelin, maybe Gervinho (even though it is more and more evident he is not going to achieve anything at Arsenal). The way Chamakh took that penalty was just shocking, unacceptable. Some players are completely out of form: Podolski, TV being back to his usual crapness, Sagna and Ox are far from their best.

The most important thing IMO is that the way this 433 is supposed to work means everyone needs to be very good physically, run forward, track back, run into space, press. A few years back, such opposition would have been gone physically by the 60th minute, yet Bradford kept on pressing us even in ET. It is clear the team as a whole is not feeling well, we read words 'jaded', 'handbrake on' after almost every game. This aspect of football is the most difficult to asses for a fan, especially the reasons for such a situation, but for me it is evident there is a problem there and it is not only a case of overplaying certain people.

[bluebirds4life]

You fans who seem to not find the result a travesty are the reason the majority of Arsenal fans continue to go through constant pain.

[Henry_14]

Exactly. There is no positive spin on this. Worst night of my Arsenal supporting life this.

Wenger: "I cannot fault the effort of my team. "

You must know by now Wenger wont slag the team off to the press. He never emans half the stuff he says in post match interviews

[SJ234]

You fans who seem to not find the result a travesty are the reason the majority of Arsenal fans continue to go through constant pain.

Nothing to do with it tbh.

[Ruckus]

Sort of what I think, too. Maybe Wenger, being stubborn as he is (not necessarily a bad thing, in the long run possibly positive, as it prevents from making hasty and rushed changes)

how long a 'long run'? seven years?

[ScottGooner]

Complete shambles TBH. Was this as bad or worse than the Wrexham result all those years ago.

[chris79]

how long a 'long run'? seven years?

I just mean that a manager that changes his team or tactics every time he loses a game is less likely to succeed in the long run than someone who has a good plan and sticks to it even if things don't go his way for some time.

[jamez91]

The optimist inside me thinks this will act as a major kick up the *** for Wenger and the team, but then I thought Norwich, Schalke, and Swansea were all games in which it would happen

[SJ234]

Wenger out debates are pointless. The crux of the issue is does he have money to spend or not? We don't know the answer. What we know is he would have more if he didn't come up with that wage structure which had basis but was stupid nonetheless

[djvandyke]

Is there any point in getting rid of Wenger if the new Manager doesn't have any money to spend?

To answer that I ask two simple questions.

Is Wenger is capable of getting the best out of his players?

Does Wenger get use his resources wisely?

My answer would be an emphatic NO to both questions.

[VamPook]

The penalties weren't that bad

[Henry_14]

Not my point. My point is does it matter we lose this? Ultimately no. What matters is we get into the CL for next season and then think about what next at the end of the season

But theres two seperate issues here:

1) Should the Champions League /Champions League qualification be a priority over the League Cup - which obviously is yes of course, at the start of the year if you offered me only one of them id take the Champs League qualification every time.

However,

2) Since we have got to the Q/F and fielded a strong team against a Div 2 club should we have battered them and been in the semis looking to win it, of course, Should be be annoyed at the lack of effort form the majority of players and the fact we havnt qualified - absolutly. It shouldnt have anything to do with our Champs League qualification - unless we had rested all our 1st XI

[Ruckus]

I just mean that a manager that changes his team or tactics every time he loses a game is less likely to succeed in the long run than someone who has a good plan and sticks to it even if things don't go his way for some time.

for seven years?

[Razzler]

Not my point. My point is does it matter we lose this? Ultimately no. What matters is we get into the CL for next season and then think about what next at the end of the season

Fair enough. Of course getting into the top 4 is the most important thing but you can have both, CL qualification and a cup win. It's like after every defeat you can say the same thing 'we lost to Norwich but as long as we get in the top 4 that's all that matters' and last season you were hopeless but still got in the top 4, hence Wenger's 'judge us after 38 games' thing.

Not sure which 38 games, mind

[Motherlover]

This is a shocking night even by Arsenal's recent standards.

That Gervinho miss

[Razzler]

But theres two seperate issues here:

1) Should the Champions League /Champions League qualification be a priority over the League Cup - which obviously is yes of course, at the start of the year if you offered me only one of them id take the Champs League qualification every time.

You don't have to choose though.

CL and title are more important to United, City and Chelsea too and midtable security is more important to Villa, Stoke and Fulham than the League Cup but it's still a rubbish game to lose and a great opportunity to win a cup gone

[Chr1s Lawson]

Anyone who thinks wenger out is utterly stupid, Wenger is more likely to get a pay rise after a result like this. I know it, you know it!

[ScottGooner]

Wenger out debates are pointless. The crux of the issue is does he have money to spend or not? We don't know the answer. What we know is he would have more if he didn't come up with that wage structure which had basis but was stupid nonetheless

I don't think there is money for him. Look at the last 2 summer windows, we've received more money than we've spent.

[chris79]

To answer that I ask two simple questions.

Is Wenger is capable of getting the best out of his players?

Does Wenger get use his resources wisely?

My answer would be an emphatic NO to both questions.

IMO the problem is that in the past he used to do it, while now the main issue seems to be we are playing a lot worse that we should given the ability our players have.

So I am more and more likely to agree that Wenger himself is a problem, just not because of how he handles the 'big things', but because he is not able to get the best out of the players we have.

It is completely irrelevant though as he is not going to leave or be sacked.

[H.O.V.I]

Wenger out debates are pointless. The crux of the issue is does he have money to spend or not? We don't know the answer. What we know is he would have more if he didn't come up with that wage structure which had basis but was stupid nonetheless

Money has nothing to do with being unable to motivate players to go out and beat a league 2 side.

We have have seen this too many times over the last few years and it needs to stop, enough is enough.

Same old ****, different day.

[ajw10]

Wenger out debates are pointless. The crux of the issue is does he have money to spend or not? We don't know the answer. What we know is he would have more if he didn't come up with that wage structure which had basis but was stupid nonetheless

HE SPENT £10M ON GERVINHO. He's wasted money on ****. Paid average players top wages.

[chris79]

for seven years?

Oh, now I realize you just pretend not to understand what I posted originally so I am not going to answer.

[SJ234]

But theres two seperate issues here:

1) Should the Champions League /Champions League qualification be a priority over the League Cup - which obviously is yes of course, at the start of the year if you offered me only one of them id take the Champs League qualification every time.

However,

2) Since we have got to the Q/F and fielded a strong team against a Div 2 club should we have battered them and been in the semis looking to win it, of course, Should be be annoyed at the lack of effort form the majority of players and the fact we havnt qualified - absolutly. It shouldnt have anything to do with our Champs League qualification - unless we had rested all our 1st XI

I agree with both your points. My point is that if we get into the top 4 and do well in the CL and or Fa cup does this matter? This match doesn't effect the Cl qualification at all winning or losing it. This match hasn't changed anything regarding Wenger or the board or the whole issue we have.

[ArsenalFan7]

Looking for positives from this is all just a big excuse to save Wenger. Why can it not just be accepted we are **** and we need change, I want to win trophies, not just survive by aiming for Europe. It is all negative.

[SJ234]

Money has nothing to do with being unable to motivate players to go out and beat a league 2 side.

We have have seen this too many times over the last few years and it needs to stop, enough is enough.

Same old ****, different day.

Nope it doesn't this is the developing issue is he getting enough out of the players? For me he isn't. He won't deliver us back to being a title challenging team but could anyone? Or if anyone could would we get them?

HE SPENT £10M ON GERVINHO. He's wasted money on ****. Paid average players top wages.

I did say that.....

Anyway last post on this before I go to bed. I am undecided on whether I want him to see out his contract. All I know is he shouldn't leave during the season unless things get dramatically worse

[Ruckus]

Oh, now I realize you just pretend not to understand what I posted originally so I am not going to answer.

congratulations.

[Razzler]

I do think that sometimes Wenger does speak about the team as though it's something he doesn't have an effect on

"I think they looked tired" ... do something different then, train lighter, rotate team, etc

"they lacked confidence .." Erm ...

Things like that. It's almost like he's watching along with the rest of us wondering what will happen

[Heartwork]

TBF Not 5 years ago Matt Duke was having a nice run in the Premier League.

[H.O.V.I]

Nope it doesn't this is the developing issue is he getting enough out of the players? For me he isn't. He won't deliver us back to being a title challenging team but could anyone? Or if anyone could would we get them? Anyway last post on this before I go to bed. I am undecided on whether I want him to see out his contract. All I know is he shouldn't leave during the season unless things get dramatically worse

I have wanted wenger to stay up until the end of last season before we went on that slump and had to scrape are way into third. It was just the same old thing that keeps happening to this team year after year and i just don't think he knows how to change it or is too stubborn to because he truly thinks what he is doing will come good which is worrying in itself.

I just cannot see us ever getting better under him anymore his day has gone, you just have to watch us play too see it's the same things that have held us back being continually repeated year after year and either he can't see it or he can but doesn't have it in him to do what needs to be done.

[Henry_14]

@Nico_Yennaris: Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard!!

At least our kids understood what is required of them

[Ty]

HE SPENT £10M ON GERVINHO. He's wasted money on ****. Paid average players top wages.

Yeah but £10m at the time looked like a steal. He had 2 very good seasons at Lille, with the season before joining Arsenal winning the league with them and scoring a decent amount of goals from wide positions and central. He looked a very good player that season and I was looking forward to seeing more of him when he joined an English side, but just like you Arsenal fans, I was disappointed.

[ajw10]

I'm aware of his achievements prior to joining Arsenal. But this guy cannot even control a football And Ligue 1 is a poor league.

[Tony7]

Careful what you wish for guys. Arsenal top 4 for the last 15 years playing the best style of football over that time. I know you have not won anything since 2007 I think but sacking wenger and spending millions wont guarantee silverware and sacking wenger might lead to unsuitability. Tonight was a bad result but it happens in football, lets not forget you won at Liverpool, beat Spurs, played well with 10 men away to United got a draw at city.

Until the past month people thought you were going to be genuine title challengers.

[Stand Free]

Careful what you wish for guys. Arsenal top 4 for the last 15 years playing the best style of football over that time. I know you have not won anything since 2007 I think but sacking wenger and spending millions wont guarantee silverware and sacking wenger might lead to unsuitability. Tonight was a bad result but it happens in football, lets not forget you won at Liverpool, beat Spurs, played well with 10 men away to United got a draw at city.

Until the past month people thought you were going to be genuine title challengers.

They haven't won anything since 2005. And Arsenal haven't been playing the best style of football for a few years now.