Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Dr. Hook]

So a high-tempo counter tactic would be high tempo at all times, whether on the counter or just holding possession, whereas a low-tempo counter would be higher tempo while countering but slower otherwise, correct?

Yes essentially, though I am not sure how fast the game actually ramps up the tempo on a triggered counter-attack. Probably the highest setting possible, so if you were already at that, then there would be no difference or any perceivable difference more like.

[Dr. Hook]

When selecting players for certain positions are attributes the number one consideration? Or are there other things that should be taken into account?

I make a tactic and shoehorn players into it, generally, so no, it doesn't have to be a prime consideration or exclusive. Obviously I want them to be good, but if my tactic has a Ramdeuter role, then someone is playing it, regardless of the attributes fitting the role or not. Is that what you mean?

[JayKinobi28]

Thanks for the reply. i will use an example instead. I'm in the process of replacing my long standing centre back at the moment. The two guys I have are a 4 star rated CB with 13+ in all relevant attributes (some are as high as 17) except for one which is a 8 (might be positioning but I can remember) the other is a 2 star rated 20 yr old CB who has 12/13 across the board and much cheaper. Would you go for the guy who has the big attributes or the guy who is competent across the attributes?

Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.

[Dr. Hook]

Thanks for the reply. i will use an example instead. I'm in the process of replacing my long standing centre back at the moment. The two guys I have are a 4 star rated CB with 13+ in all relevant attributes (some are as high as 17) except for one which is a 8 (might be positioning but I can remember) the other is a 2 star rated 20 yr old CB who has 12/13 across the board and much cheaper. Would you go for the guy who has the big attributes or the guy who is competent across the attributes?

Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.

I see what you mean. I tend to go for the better rounded players all things being equal, but it depends on what sort of game you are looking for him to play and what you care about. For me the better across the board seems to pay off more because there are very few positions/roles (if any) where an attribute is useless. The other factor, since you are talking about a 20 year old is consistency, pressure etc. He might not be up to the job and need some development. At 20, he will improve but you might want an older developed player as your starter. It's all pretty subjective though. How about you buy both

[isignedupfornorealreason]

must be an off day. My question, just how important is percentage of shots on target really? Now obviously the more on target the more goals etc etc

You have to factor in the shots themselves.

You could have 10 shots and only 1 on target. But that isn't necessarily poor shooting if the 9 off target shots are all from free kicks for example.

[JayKinobi28]

Haha I just have actually (got a good deal on the older lad). I do tend to buy players that are better across the board. Just wondered if there were any downsides. Cheers Dr Hook.

[JayKinobi]

Sorry to drum on about stats and attributes.

I see people ask about what is wrong with there tactics, but what if you want to know why they are working?? Is it as simple as just making sure the players you buy are of similar or better quality and that they have the correct PPMs in place? And is this the time that you start to really work on youth development so that you have a steady stream of players you can develop for this particular tactic?

[jujigatame]

About training, previously you picked an individual focus, be it a role or a particular attribute. Now theres a separate selection for position/role and individual focus. If i choose fullback for position/role i assume it will still put focus on attributes important to a fullback?

[herne79]

Do AI opponents actually use Team Instructions and individual Player Instructions? Or do AI teams simply rely on formation, mentality, shape, roles & duties and the players available to them?

Follow up - if the AI does use TIs and PIs, given that the AI can change formation, mentality, roles & duties etc during the course of a match, would the AI also change TIs/PIs accordingly?

Pretty sure the answer to both is "yes", but would like confirmation .

Still kinda curious on this one.

[Hunter T]

Sorry, but for the life of me, i cant remember.

In preseason, team cohesion high-very high

more match training all the way to the left o

and teamwork in the match prep ?

[pedrosantos]

Hello,

Just two questions

I was looking into the Defensive Winger role and the Mark Tighter PI is unavailable. Why can't this role have this option available ?

The second question is about Close Down: if I set close down to much more, there are roles that only have close down less in their PI. Why can't they close down as the team ?

Also curious with these

[Masi`]

Playing in Italy you see some odd formations, what are peoples thought on the style of player these are based on? e.g. are they slow possession based?

1)

AF CFs

SS

DMd DMs DMs

FBs CDd CDd FBs

2nd

AFa

AMs

WBs Dms DMs WBs

Fbs CDd CDd FBs (very high line)

second one seems so odd player by Udinese, back 4 and the next back of 4 are basically touching each other

[Dr. Hook]

Still kinda curious on this one.

As am I- Based on what I know, which isn't the entire black box workings of FM by any stretch, they do, as we've been told in the past that the AI has access to the same TI and PI we do. It also would stand to reason that AI would use them to replicate the manager styles that researchers enter. I know that the AI uses OI's, if that is any indication.

[Dr. Hook]

Also curious with these

On the Defensive Winger, no idea why mark tighter is not an option. It seems like it should be. The close down is easier- if you have the team set to Much more, they are closing down at the max possible setting already, so any player whose closing down matches the team can only reduce it not increase because it is maxed out from the start.

[max787]

I'll be trying this out later on, but before I do so, is there anything blatantly wrong with this?

I want:

To play defensive football, sit deep and absorb pressure before countering.

Mostly score my goals on the break.

Have my left winger be the main scorer.

Defensive

Fluid

41221

Play out of defence

Work ball into box

GK - GKd

RB - FBa

CB - CDd

CB - CDd

LB - WBs

DM - DLPs

MCR - CMa

MCL - CMd

AMR - Ws

AML - Raumdeuter

ST - DLFs (move into channels, roam, dribble less)

[Bigpapa42]

I'll be trying this out later on, but before I do so, is there anything blatantly wrong with this?

I want:

To play defensive football, sit deep and absorb pressure before countering.

Mostly score my goals on the break.

Have my left winger be the main scorer.

Defensive

Fluid

41221

Play out of defence

Work ball into box

GK - GKd

RB - FBa

CB - CDd

CB - CDd

LB - WBs

DM - DLPs

MCR - CMa

MCL - CMd

AMR - Ws

AML - Raumdeuter

ST - DLFs (move into channels, roam, dribble less)

I wouldn't say blatantly wrong, but Cleon just mentioned in another thread that if you are going to focus on defending and countering, having the wingers further up the pitch means they help out less. Not even regarding their roles and duties but simply where they are stationed on the pitch. They are not behind the ball, which means less players to win back the ball and launch the counter.

[pedrosantos]

On the Defensive Winger, no idea why mark tighter is not an option. It seems like it should be. The close down is easier- if you have the team set to Much more, they are closing down at the max possible setting already, so any player whose closing down matches the team can only reduce it not increase because it is maxed out from the start.

Thank you, but shouldn't the Player Instruction have the option As the Team available ? I mean, if the team is set to Much More, the players should be able to close down Much More also, right ? and not only to close down less or much less.

As for the Mark Tighter should it be logged as a bug ? if so, in what bugs forum ?

By the way, looking tp Dani Alves, I think we all agree he's a WB / CWB and that sometimes he cuts inside. Shouldn't this movement be available in player instructions (only the WB with support duty is allowed to) ?

[badabing]

If I put AML(S) with get further forward will he still have the defensive workrate of a support aml?

[Fancy Gaffot]

How do I stop my players from simply smashing the ball forward (or out of play) when they are defending in numbers? For example my team is defending a corner, CB heads the ball away and it's picked up by my lone striker somewhere near the half way line. Instead of

a) holding onto the ball

b) trying to break away with it

c) passing back to a teammate

almost always he will just kick the ball forward to the opposition keeper or even out of bounds.

This is happening with all 3 of my tactics including the one which definitely should prohibit this (control/retain possession/play out of defence/work the ball into the box).

[pedromanuelpinto]

Hi all,

My trainning understand tell me that a player until 25 years should be put in a specific skill train and abvoe 25 in a role train. If possible, if the player is happy with the train, we should implement the two? Or no?

Thanks.

[Tyon_Games]

How do I stop my players from simply smashing the ball forward (or out of play) when they are defending in numbers? For example my team is defending a corner, CB heads the ball away and it's picked up by my lone striker somewhere near the half way line. Instead of

a) holding onto the ball

b) trying to break away with it

c) passing back to a teammate

almost always he will just kick the ball forward to the opposition keeper or even out of bounds.

This is happening with all 3 of my tactics including the one which definitely should prohibit this (control/retain possession/play out of defence/work the ball into the box).

I think the Lone Striker dont have the order: "Hold the ball" If he had he would hold the ball i guess

[Tyon_Games]

If I put AML(S) with get further forward will he still have the defensive workrate of a support aml?

He still do some defensiv work, but he will push more forward like a AML/a does

Defensiv work depends on your philosophy. Structured AM do less defensiv work than fluid AM´s does.

[swansongs]

Thank you, but shouldn't the Player Instruction have the option As the Team available ? I mean, if the team is set to Much More, the players should be able to close down Much More also, right ? and not only to close down less or much less.

Closing down "Sometimes" is "As the Team". Its just bad writing causing so much confusion.

[Dr. Hook]

Thank you, but shouldn't the Player Instruction have the option As the Team available ? I mean, if the team is set to Much More, the players should be able to close down Much More also, right ? and not only to close down less or much less.

As for the Mark Tighter should it be logged as a bug ? if so, in what bugs forum ?

By the way, looking tp Dani Alves, I think we all agree he's a WB / CWB and that sometimes he cuts inside. Shouldn't this movement be available in player instructions (only the WB with support duty is allowed to) ?

I think it is the way that it is worded- like Swansongs says is above- that is not clear. But basically, when the team is at the highest possible closing down, any player that has the team default will also be at the highest closing down possible, so there is no higher setting you could give, which is why it is not an option. Or think of it in numbers- if your team is set at 100% closing down, every player who has team closing down rather than a role/duty that is different from the team setting will also be at 100%. There is nothing higher, so you couldnt set him to 120%, say.

There is a bugs section where you can raise the issue of tight marking http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/519-Football-Manager-2016-Bugs-Forum

For cuts inside, Wingback w/support or IWB will do it, not sure why it is limited to support duty at all, but it is. Perhaps they thought the support duty will have space to cut inside whereas the attack duty wingback heads for the byline and no room to cut inside. I think it works fine with the support duty because he is still in the middle third. You could raise that along with the defensive winger thing, though.

[Dr. Hook]

If I put AML(S) with get further forward will he still have the defensive workrate of a support aml?

He will do the exact same thing, only if he gets forward he will have further to track back so this could take him out of the play. Otherwise, his defensive play will not be changed

[Dr. Hook]

Hi all,

My trainning understand tell me that a player until 25 years should be put in a specific skill train and abvoe 25 in a role train. If possible, if the player is happy with the train, we should implement the two? Or no?

Thanks.

You will always have a position being trained now in FM16- the default is the players primary playing position. There is no more training for a specific role with that position. You can use specific skill training even after a player is fully developed, though. If he has reached his full potential, what will happen is that the atributes will get redstributed, so if you wanted to boost a player who is 28 tackling skill, if it increases you will see a drop in some other attribute. I use specific skill training while they are still developing, and then only in developed players if I want to reshape some skills.

[pedrosantos]

I think it is the way that it is worded- like Swansongs says is above- that is not clear. But basically, when the team is at the highest possible closing down, any player that has the team default will also be at the highest closing down possible, so there is no higher setting you could give, which is why it is not an option. Or think of it in numbers- if your team is set at 100% closing down, every player who has team closing down rather than a role/duty that is different from the team setting will also be at 100%. There is nothing higher, so you couldnt set him to 120%, say.

There is a bugs section where you can raise the issue of tight marking http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/519-Football-Manager-2016-Bugs-Forum

For cuts inside, Wingback w/support or IWB will do it, not sure why it is limited to support duty at all, but it is. Perhaps they thought the support duty will have space to cut inside whereas the attack duty wingback heads for the byline and no room to cut inside. I think it works fine with the support duty because he is still in the middle third. You could raise that along with the defensive winger thing, though.

Thank you I understand that if closing down is set to maximum in team instructions, it cannot increase in player instructions. What I found strange is not being able to set the player instruction equal to the team. I started a thread at the match engine bugs forum about short cornets, I think I will raise these issues also.

[pedromanuelpinto]

Thanks Dr. Hook.

I had a wrong understand. Just train the position, and to develop the youngs I should also add a specific train (tackling for example).

[Dr. Hook]

Thanks Dr. Hook.

I had a wrong understand. Just train the position, and to develop the youngs I should also add a specific train (tackling for example).

That is what I do- my young players 15-17 or so I focus on trying to develop their physical attributes with specific training focus, or things first touch and technique. At about 18 or 19 if they ahve developed physically the way I want or have stopped progressing, I move on to specific skills for their role/position, and after 25 or so, I just train positions and don't generally use specific focus except in the case I mentioned in the post above where I want to reshape a player a little bit.

[Dannehbai]

Why does the CM support have such drastically lower closing down than CM defend? I was messing about with a new everton save and started off with Barry and Mccarthy as CM (D) and (S) respectively however the closing down instructions for those would be the opposite of what I want. Now I can't decide what sort of roles Barry and McCarthy would have in the CM strata, I ended up thinking that Barry would be a DLP or CM(D) with less closing down with McCarthy either as a bwm (d) or a cm (s) with hold position and close down more. I want them to play as two holding midfielders with overlapping full backs, pretty close to their actual playstyles.

[pattricb]

I am conceding the majority of my goals off set pieces and have no idea how to stop it from happening. Which attributes are the most important when it comes to defending set pieces?

[Chrisis]

Hello.

I'm trying to emulate Jürgen Klopps famous Dortmund side from a couple of seasons ago. (I know I know 'hipster')

What I am struggling with is to get the two cm's to each take their turn on the defensive side. As I experienced Gündogan and Bender shared this responsibility during matches.

Example, the right back has the ball and is looking to start an attack, the RCM goes higher up the pitch and the LMC sees this and takes the defensive responsibility. The next attack vica versa.

I do not see the switch position as a solution because I want them to exchange responsibility not position...

Anyone have a good method of getting this done?

[samdiatmh]

I am conceding the majority of my goals off set pieces and have no idea how to stop it from happening. Which attributes are the most important when it comes to defending set pieces?

heading?

how you set up the players is probably the most important though

-you're not going to have too much success if you put everyone on 'stay forward' (although it might work for offside purposes )

likewise you're not going to have much success if everyone stays back, as you've got no outlet to start an attack of your own

[Bigpapa42]

I want to be able to test, but since I can't at the moment, I'm gonna ask. Debating on the forward role in a 4-1-4-1 counter tactic. The player in question (Abel Hernandez) has good pace and finishing, and was quite lethal on the counter in another tactic I used. That was using him as an AF with a DLF-S beside him. I never found him as effective if I had him as a DLF-S, but that seems like it would be one of the better options in this shape. As an AF, he might be too far forward to help out on the counter and make deadly use of his pace to run at defenders. CF is one of the roles he's rated as strong at, so I'm curious how a CF-S would be likely to do as a lone striker. Will he drop deep, hassle, etc?

[Pedroig]

FM16 has brought up a couple of questions, some may be dumber than others:

My "twin" tactics: Dense defensive football, 0-0 tie would be preferred to conceding any goals. The mid offset triangle keeps it shape very well in defense, and then shotguns apart during transition. Fairly direct, keep the WB's within 10 yards of the sidelines to open up lanes for folks to slip in. The DLF will usually get the ball hold it up, then make a decision between the onrushing MC(a), the practically poaching AF(a), or swing it out to one of the WB's. Watching half a dozen friendlies and about the same of actual matches, works pretty well, have faced 4 EPL teams and have conceded 7 goals to them, whilst only scoring 1. In Sky Bet 2, no losses, 2 draws, 2 wins which the ME gifted us with 90+ minute goals, one an OG (so it doesn't just happen to HUM players), other wins were all standard 1-0, 2-0, or 2-1 results. (Only have scored more than 2 goals in "morale friendlies") It is fun to see the counter attack trigger, even if half the time the pass is intercepted on the far side...

5-3-2 DM WB Defensive Fluid

5-3-2 WB Standard Fluid

Same TI: Play fairly wide, one notch of "more wide". This was the last tweak I did.

1) I switch from one tactic to the other, why does the ME or whatever make it to where I have to change at least three players. All that should happen is the DM steps up, takes off his Regista hat,takes the place of MC with his less adventuresome DLP hat on... Any idea why?

2) Do Regista NOT count as Playmakers? When I have the Regista, my GK, who has the Distribute to Playmaker PI throws, rolls, and kicks it to everyone BUT the Regista. With the DLP it is much more common. (I typically highlight these two positions as they are suppose to be the major pivot for transition)

3) Have both Get Wider and Mark Tighter PI's on the WB's, had Close down more, but they couldn't seem to understand it was only the wide players I need them closing down on... Still, the CB's come out and cover the wide players more than the WB's do. Is this "normal" for single wide out formations?

4) Consistency problems: I go from 3 shots on goal, scoring 1 from a CCC and all three being on target, to 24 shots on goal with 8 on target, doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason. (As in same opposing formation, skill level of teams about the same, and not that much variety in player skills at any given position) Is it just good day/bad day or is there something glaring that needs to be fixed?

[KlaaZ]

At the risk of asking a question already answered here, but is there something wrong with fullbacks defensively? Mine are all over the place, usually either closing down way too high or closing down in the center (leaving my flanks wide open).

[KlaaZ]

Thought as much. Going to put the game back on the shelf for now then, because it pretty much makes things unplayable for me right now. The amount of goals I'm conceding from crosses is hilarious. I'm trying to do the same, but I just can't involve my wingers for some reason.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Hey all,

In my current creation I have a central trio (AM-MC-MC), I've set it up so the two MC's are holding midfielders - CM/D and DLP/S.

The AMC I put down as an AP/S as I want him to be the 'trigger' of the killer balls into an Advanced Forward and Raumdeuter (or Inside forward, whatever haven't decided yet!)

One thing I notice is that the AP/S often falls back and sits on top of the DLP. Is that what is meant to happen? When I switch him to AP/A he gets forward a lot more and we have a neat triangle, but I'm reluctant to have too many attacking duties on the front line, so I just wanted to ask if anyone is seeing that kind of behaviour and if it is meant to do that?

[Cleon]

Hey all,

In my current creation I have a central trio (AM-MC-MC), I've set it up so the two MC's are holding midfielders - CM/D and DLP/S.

The AMC I put down as an AP/S as I want him to be the 'trigger' of the killer balls into an Advanced Forward and Raumdeuter (or Inside forward, whatever haven't decided yet!)

One thing I notice is that the AP/S often falls back and sits on top of the DLP. Is that what is meant to happen? When I switch him to AP/A he gets forward a lot more and we have a neat triangle, but I'm reluctant to have too many attacking duties on the front line, so I just wanted to ask if anyone is seeing that kind of behaviour and if it is meant to do that?

It's probably likely that he is a playmaker so on support, he's dropping deep in search of the ball. The fact that the DLP is also a support playmaker then he's probably not releasing the ball as quickly as the AP wants, so he's coming deeper to look for the ball.

Did you read my Enganche threads? Sounds like the sort of thing you are looking for tbh.

[barriie]

The Team Instruction: Overlapping, is that only for the wingers/backs, or does this also apply to the rest of the team?

Thanks in advance!

[isignedupfornorealreason]

It's probably likely that he is a playmaker so on support, he's dropping deep in search of the ball. The fact that the DLP is also a support playmaker then he's probably not releasing the ball as quickly as the AP wants, so he's coming deeper to look for the ball.

Did you read my Enganche threads? Sounds like the sort of thing you are looking for tbh.

I'll have a look see. I've always worried an Enganche will just be marked out of the game though, especially with sides throwing in 2 DM's against me thesedays!

[kidthekid]

Can someone explain the effect of tight marking for centre backs. I ask this because I find that when I play a deep defensive line and stand off in other to maintain our defensive shape, I concede goals where a winger crosses the ball into the box, I have 5-6 players in the box and the other team has only one, but all of my defenders just stand and watch as the only striker scores the goal.

I'm considering having the defenders tight mark, but I don't know if it will help it. I was wondering if bravery plays a role, maybe defenders with low bravery wouldn't try to block crosses/shots.

[Dr. Hook]

The Team Instruction: Overlapping, is that only for the wingers/backs, or does this also apply to the rest of the team?

Thanks in advance!

It is fullbacks/wingers primarily, but it can also apply to anyone who is out wide and running into a channel

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Can someone explain the effect of tight marking for centre backs. I ask this because I find that when I play a deep defensive line and stand off in other to maintain our defensive shape, I concede goals where a winger crosses the ball into the box, I have 5-6 players in the box and the other team has only one, but all of my defenders just stand and watch as the only striker scores the goal.

I'm considering having the defenders tight mark, but I don't know if it will help it. I was wondering if bravery plays a role, maybe defenders with low bravery wouldn't try to block crosses/shots.

Sounds more like an anticipation and positioning issue, though bravery is always useful for getting them to stick their head in where it hurts.

[Dr. Hook]

Can someone explain the effect of tight marking for centre backs. I ask this because I find that when I play a deep defensive line and stand off in other to maintain our defensive shape, I concede goals where a winger crosses the ball into the box, I have 5-6 players in the box and the other team has only one, but all of my defenders just stand and watch as the only striker scores the goal.

I'm considering having the defenders tight mark, but I don't know if it will help it. I was wondering if bravery plays a role, maybe defenders with low bravery wouldn't try to block crosses/shots.

This is something of ME issue where marking in the box can be a bit loose and unreactive, so it's not entirely you. Tight marking would help, yes, and especially if you have a specific individual to be marked.

[barriie]

It is fullbacks/wingers primarily, but it can also apply to anyone who is out wide and running into a channel

Thank you! I only have 1 wide man, so ima drop that instruction!

[KlaaZ]

Use more rigidity in your formation, as well as stick to positions. It helps.

Not enough. I'm conceding nearly all of my goals through crosses to the far post, followed by an easy tap in. And that's just because the opposing winger doesn't get covered properly and because the FB on the other side always loses his man for some reason.

[Dr. Hook]

Not enough. I'm conceding nearly all of my goals through crosses to the far post, followed by an easy tap in. And that's just because the opposing winger doesn't get covered properly and because the FB on the other side always loses his man for some reason.

The fullbacks currently have trouble with covering wide players in open play, especially in transitions and when the flank is switched quickly- they tend to become too narrow. In addition to rigid and sticking to positions, if there is a winger who poses a wide threat, set your fullback to man mark him, and this should help some as well.

[KlaaZ]

The fullbacks currently have trouble with covering wide players in open play, especially in transitions and when the flank is switched quickly- they tend to become too narrow. In addition to rigid and sticking to positions, if there is a winger who poses a wide threat, set your fullback to man mark him, and this should help some as well.

I went for a formation without fullbacks instead. I have another problem with my 3 CD formation though. The central defender is always the first one to step out of the line to close down a loose player but the outer CD's don't push inside after, leaving huge gaps to be exploited by the opposition. Any ideas on how to counter this? I've tried player the central CD as a cover CD with close down less, but that doesn't stop him from going out either.

[ibrahim.akbyk]

Has look for overlap any affect on wide forward's forward run ?