Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Cleon]

Not at all Cleon it's not an overcritical post and I do appreciate the help I do. In my defence I never change formation. It was just that game as I knew Bernard was flying down the wing and was becoming a problem I just tried not to concede as I knew the 4312 was too narrow against him but nothing I do defensively seems to work.

Funnily enough I played the game again as I had saved it just to see how I would have got on if I had just played my usual 4312 all the way through and got beat 6-4 with Kane again dominating in the goals. So what do you do?! That's two games, one reacting, one not reacting and exactly the same outcome. It's as if the likes of Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool have this auto overload at home that is impossible to stop whatever you do. The Spurs and Liverpool formations especially have glaring weaknesses but still manage to get 11 men going forward and 11 men behind the ball when defending.

I have as you suggested stripped back and even played games with just a formation and mentality with no PI's and TI's and can go two or three up and get beat 4-3 and have to confess I see absolutely nothing different going on on the pitch with regard to mentalities, roles or duties!!! I can as I say go two up, see the opposition is dominating so say swap CWB A to a CWB S which IRL and in theory will make your defence more solid but it does the opposite it seems and you concede. Defending just seems impossible with players either standing around not putting tackles in and doing the very basics.

It probably is my tactics but it just gets extremely mind boggling when you can win 2-0, 3-0, 4-1, 3-0, 2-1 then lose 3-4, 0-2, 2-3, 1-3 in a row. To be fair that's when I start fiddling as I had that lightbulb moment then the lightbulb just faded as I went from unbeaten in 5 or 6 to can't win in 5 or 6.

Maybe it's a case of just accepting the games away at Spurs, Liverpool etc are unwinnable when they play certain players.

I mean is anything glaringly wrong with this set up bar the fact that obviously it is weak out wide, I play it most of the time but it is so inconsistent?

-------------------DLF S---------CF A-------------------

---------------------------AM A--------------------------

----------------BWM S---DLP S---BWM S--------------

CWB A/S------CD D---------------CD D--------CWB A/S

---------------------------SK A--------------------------

Attacking/Control - Fluid

TI's - Play out of defence (have experimented taking this off), stop GK dist, Stay on feet (sometimes)

PI's - Front three - Close Down Much More, Tackle harder (Rashidi's high block suggestion), Move Into Channels,

----------------------- BWM's and CWB's, play less risky passes

----------------------- GK distribute to full backs. Did experiment taking this off as thought maybe my full backs hadn't got good enough passing but to no avail.

As always do appreciate your help.

PS, That lightbulb moment was in patch two then with patch three the lightbulb blew!!!

You're extremely aggressive in this set up and even if you change mentality the roles are still aggressive and in midfield you have no real protection for the back four. You use two BWM's who charge around like headless chickens and your DLP also wanders about. So it's no wonder away from home against good sides who have technically gifted midfielders that you get ripped open. Have you watched to see how the three central midfielders are positioned when you lose the ball and see what happens when one or both BWM's go to close down the ball. Have a look and tell me if the DLP is positioned correctly to be able to deal with that and secondly, realistically can he cover the space they leave without leaving you open? Unless he is super man or you have top players I don't see how he can cover for them both while still sticking to his own responsibilities.

[Sussex Hammer]

Sorry Cleon my mistake it's meant to be a DLP D in there I have edited the correction. However even with a DLP D that's still a good point you make. The BWM S DLP D BWM S idea was based on Rashidis tactic and with players like Song, Kranevitter and Romero I thought I had the players to get away with it. I find that first half the BWM's do fine covering the wings and closing down but second half obviously tiredness kicks in.

The DLP D I used because it seems the most defensive of any CM. Sometimes he drops in nicely like a half back but sometimes he is too far forward. Even the CM D seems higher up than the DLP D and if you add "close down less" to a CM D he does nothing. I have tried using BBM's and plain old CM S in this three and none seem solid. I just can't get them to screen the back four. Even using a DM rather than the CM then the CM two are far too narrow and leave the flanks wide open.

The other issue defensively seems to be my AM A loses possession far to quickly even with good passing options. He just seems to run into the opponents and loses it. That in turn means the opposition counters quickly. I tried changing the role to TQ or AP or even a SS and same old issues.

The other problems I have is that all goals tend to come from my CF A. Thirty odd a season which is great but the DLF hardly scores.

[Cleon]

Sorry Cleon my mistake it's meant to be a DLP D in there I have edited the correction. However even with a DLP D that's still a good point you make. The BWM S DLP D BWM S idea was based on Rashidis tactic and with players like Song, Kranevitter and Romero I thought I had the players to get away with it. I find that first half the BWM's do fine covering the wings and closing down but second half obviously tiredness kicks in.

This brings issues with itself. If they cover the wings then one central midfielder can't cover the whole of the central space on his own. Most teams will always have a 2v1 advantage if the other two central players have gone wide. I know you say the BWM's are doing what you want and that's good but is this added un needed pressure centrally and over working the DLP? I find it hard to believe that at some stages it wouldn't be a massive issue. One simple ball from the wing inside and they'd have the advantage and the DLP would always have an option to make. Is this why you struggle against sides like Spurs and Liverpool who will have Coutinho and Eriksen playing in the space between midfield and defence. Two very gifted individuals who your DLP is supposed to take care of yet he might have to cover for the BWM's.

The other issue defensively seems to be my AM A loses possession far to quickly even with good passing options. He just seems to run into the opponents and loses it. That in turn means the opposition counters quickly. I tried changing the role to TQ or AP or even a SS and same old issues.

If you encounter the same issues no matter the role used then this suggest their is something fundamentally wrong with your tactic and that's the reason this role doesn't function how you'd like. It could be a simple knock on effect from both BWM's though, when you have possession they may still be recovering position from when you didn't have the ball and aren't in the areas they're supposed to be. It might not be this but I think it could be one of a number of reasons. It's also why I prefer variety in a three man midfield. I like a playmaker, ball winner and a runner as this creates options and space.

[herne79]

Sussex, just to relay on my midfield findings with my 4321 tactic, where my 3 centre mids are BBM - DLP(D) - BWM(S) or (D), along with a CWB(A) down that right flank where the BWM is.

The DLP(D) was indeed getting overworked regularly when using the BWM(S) next to him. You can see this not only during a match but also in analysis reports at the end of a match - my DLP(D) would make far more tackles and interceptions than the BWM(S). Have a look, see if you notice something similar.

Two things helped even the spread - 1) Using the PI "Hold Position" for the BWM(S) I found helped with his defensive duties. I only use the BWM(S) when I'm not overly concerned by the opposition. 2) Against sides with a decent winger and fullback combo, I change the BWM(S) to BWM(D). This strengthens the defensive screen at the expense of some attacking threat, but I found it's a trade off worth taking. I was also using Kranevitter.

On a side note, I usually start off with a Standard mentality and change up to control or down to counter as things develop, I never use attacking. However, all of this was down to the style of play I set myself right from the get go, so only small adjustments (if any) from match to match.

[Cleon]

I really enjoy reading your posts herne79

[Sussex Hammer]

Cleon, Herne,

Do you mind if I start a thread on my tactic, even though it's for 2015, as I can then put some screenshots in and I don't want to take over the Tactical questions thread? I would appreciate your advice...

[Cleon]

Cleon, Herne,

Do you mind if I start a thread on my tactic, even though it's for 2015, as I can then put some screenshots in and I don't want to take over the Tactical questions thread? I would appreciate your advice...

Of course, go for it

[herne79]

I really enjoy reading your posts herne79

Awww thanks Mom

Cleon, Herne,

Do you mind if I start a thread on my tactic, even though it's for 2015, as I can then put some screenshots in and I don't want to take over the Tactical questions thread? I would appreciate your advice...

Go for it .

On a completely separate note, I am so pumped for the Libero role in FM16 beta. I am looking at my screen right now showing an attack where the Libero is up in the opposition's final third and my DLP(D) in central midfield has dropped back behind him to cover. I think I might explode.

[Cleon]

Awww thanks Mom

Go for it .

On a completely separate note, I am so pumped for the Libero role in FM16 beta. I am looking at my screen right now showing an attack where the Libero is up in the opposition's final third and my DLP(D) in central midfield has dropped back behind him to cover. I think I might explode.

You can get him to act like an AMC

I've got something exciting planned for the Libero this year that I'll be writing about.

[herne79]

You can get him to act like an AMC

I've got something exciting planned for the Libero this year that I'll be writing about.

I just exploded.

[swansongs]

On a completely separate note, I am so pumped for the Libero role in FM16 beta. I am looking at my screen right now showing an attack where the Libero is up in the opposition's final third and my DLP(D) in central midfield has dropped back behind him to cover. I think I might explode.

I wasn't too bothered about starting up a 16 game before seeing this.

[JordanBlackpoolFC]

Anyonwe had any luck with anything on FM16? Tried a few different tactics with various teams and nothing seems to work!

[Jean0987654321]

I see the IWB role a bit better now. But, I'm stunned that I don't have the option for my CMs to "Cross from Deep"

[HUNT3R]

Anyonwe had any luck with anything on FM16? Tried a few different tactics with various teams and nothing seems to work!

Lots of people have had luck on FM16. You haven't so that's the issue, not what other people are doing. Have a read of this: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327822-Asking-For-Help-PLEASE-READ-THIS

Detail your vision you tried to implement and the tactic that resulted. Also list the specific issues you have.

[The Scarecrow]

How do you train someone to a new position in FM16? I have a few players who are training for a role in a position they're not natural in, but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

[RTHerringbone]

I see the IWB role a bit better now. But, I'm stunned that I don't have the option for my CMs to "Cross from Deep"

Why stunned? CMs play centrally and you can't cross the ball from a central position.

[Cleon]

How do you train someone to a new position in FM16? I have a few players who are training for a role in a position they're not natural in, but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Play them in the position you want them to learn then select train playing position. Remember though it's not a short term thing and will take time depending on the players adaptability and versatility.

[safcrhys]

Is playing a false 9 with a winger who is used as an inside forward okay? I am conscious of the false 9 getting in the wingers way when he cuts inside.

[Cleon]

Is playing a false 9 with a winger who is used as an inside forward okay? I am conscious of the false 9 getting in the wingers way when he cuts inside.

He's either a winger or a inside forward can't be both. And why would he get in his way? Is the F9 not capable of moving and going to be in the exact same spot all the time?

[Fritz13]

In FM15 I could assign the positional training attributes to a a player - i.e. Wingback support.

This player could also learn a new position, and a PPM .... All at the same time.

I'm struggling to see how to do this (apart from the PPM) in FM16 as the training seems to have merged the training role for a position and learning an actual new position into a single option.

Am I missing something ?

[Cleon]

In FM15 I could assign the positional training attributes to a a player - i.e. Wingback support.

This player could also learn a new position, and a PPM .... All at the same time.

I'm struggling to see how to do this (apart from the PPM) in FM16 as the training seems to have merged the training role for a position and learning an actual new position into a single option.

Am I missing something ?

Nothing it's been merged.

[Fritz13]

great thanks - thought I'd better check!!

[herne79]

Given that positional training and role training are now merged, I assume this will have a knock on effect to eating up small amount of a player's PA as he becomes more accomplished in the role?

One other point, unless I am missing something obvious (always possible!) we can no longer change the intensity of individual training?

[Cleon]

Given that positional training and role training are now merged, I assume this will have a knock on effect to eating up small amount of a player's PA as he becomes more accomplished in the role?

One other point, unless I am missing something obvious (always possible!) we can no longer change the intensity of individual training?

You can no longer set an intensity level. Instead, this is reflected under "Individual Training Workload" (can be seen on both Training > Individual and Development > Training). This will update as you add/remove further areas of training, eg. an additional focus or a PPM.

[safcrhys]

He's either a winger or a inside forward can't be both. And why would he get in his way? Is the F9 not capable of moving and going to be in the exact same spot all the time?

Sorry I should have been more clear, the guy I play on the left flank is an inside forward. Cause the False 9 plays deeper than a conventional striker I was concerned that the he may get in the way of the inside forward. I was told a while ago to pay attention to space when creating a tactic and therefore try to avoid having players getting in the way of each other if you know what I mean? Sorry I didn't make it clearer.

[Cleon]

Sorry I should have been more clear, the guy I play on the left flank is an inside forward. Cause the False 9 plays deeper than a conventional striker I was concerned that the he may get in the way of the inside forward. I was told a while ago to pay attention to space when creating a tactic and therefore try to avoid having players getting in the way of each other if you know what I mean? Sorry I didn't make it clearer.

I thought as much

But why would they realistically get in each other way? The space between an inside forward and a deep striker is huge. It's bigger than two strikers playing next to each other and do two strikers get in each others way? The answer is no they wouldn't. You could play an inside forward, deep striker and an attacking midfield and they wouldn't get in each other way. Space they all use might be reduced when you add the oppositions players into the mix too. But they should all still work together and not get in each other way.

[safcrhys]

Thanks so much for your help Cleon.

[Jean0987654321]

Why stunned? CMs play centrally and you can't cross the ball from a central position.

Tell that to Paul Scholes or Xavi

I guess PPMs will need to be learned now..

[RTHerringbone]

Tell that to Paul Scholes or Xavi

I guess PPMs will need to be learned now..

I still don't get you. Paul Scholes largely played exclusively in the middle vertical third of the pitch. He was renowned for exceptional long range passing to the flanks, but those are not crosses, they are passes into space in FM terms. Show me some regular footage of Scholes making a lung-busting run out wide and putting a cross in.

[Reedy_1988]

I plan on starting a save with Blackburn when the full game is released & in the meantime I was looking through some players attributes and noticed Jordan Rhodes had a PPM that I had never known was in the game, a "Static Targetman".

Now I think I know what it may mean but some clarification would be greatful & I plan on using him as either an advanced forward or as a poacher. Would that PPM have any negative effect if i was to use him in either of those roles?

[mikcheck]

Hey all.

Cleon, i remember reading some of your posts where you said that normally the first tactic that you try in any FM version is the W-M (i guess since FM 05?).

My question is, till now did you made it successefully in all the versions?

Thanks!

[Made.Brama]

What Roles / Duties have you tried? What Mentality and Team Shape?

I have a similar player and I use him as a Wide Midfielder - Attack. When he got the ball he pass it and runs

sorry for late reply. I would like my wide midfilder becoming like beckham,since he's not fast nor great at dribling,but good at crossing.

I tried winger-support, also wide midfilder attack or support, as right midfield. Most of my problem is when he's winger, he like to hold the ball then pass instead of cross it directly. sometimes he also sit narrow,so my fullback got space for crosses instead of him

I try to put him on fullback position,but he stay in deep position. What I triedis wing back, defend or support, and full back (attack). I always give him PI cross more often,from deep,and dribble less. I cant find PI run from deep often .

mentality of my team mostly control,ocasionally changed to counter,but mostly control. team shape always flexible,never changed.

[Cleon]

Hey all.

Cleon, i remember reading some of your posts where you said that normally the first tactic that you try in any FM version is the W-M (i guess since FM 05?).

My question is, till now did you made it successefully in all the versions?

Thanks!

Yups every single version until they removed FL/FR from game. I've not done it since because anything else isn't a true W-M now.

[mikcheck]

Cool, thanks.

That gives me inspiration and strength to try it in an old save i have from FM08

[all4everdragon]

Can anyone elucidate why a wingback (a) can only close down less or much less than the team (the TI is set to close down much more) ??? why can't he close down sometimes (like the team) ????... it seems the question suits any player.

[TheJanitor]

Hey, I'm looking for some clarification. While playing with Ajax I noticed center mid Nemanja Gudelj has the PPM "Static Target Man". Does it reflects his play only if he plays as a forward or does it actually affects his actions as a center mid? If so how?

[Cleon]

Hey, I'm looking for some clarification. While playing with Ajax I noticed center mid Nemanja Gudelj has the PPM "Static Target Man". Does it reflects his play only if he plays as a forward or does it actually affects his actions as a center mid? If so how?

It means he doesn't move around much when your side has possession, so he'd expect the ball being accurately played to him. Rather than him running onto balls or chasing them down etc. It can be good or bad on midfielders depending on how you play.

[Chrisis]

Hello Cleon, I am trying to use my striker as a target man, but I do not want my defenders just playing it long, any tips on how to do this? I use a single striker in a 4-3-3.

[TheJanitor]

It means he doesn't move around much when your side has possession, so he'd expect the ball being accurately played to him. Rather than him running onto balls or chasing them down etc. It can be good or bad on midfielders depending on how you play.

Interesting, thanks for the help. Will defenitely check how it plays.

[all4everdragon]

Can anyone elucidate why a wingback (a) can only close down less or much less than the team (the TI is set to close down much more) ??? why can't he close down sometimes (like the team) ????... it seems the question suits any player.

anyone ?

[Cleon]

anyone ?

A wingback on attack is set to close down sometimes already. Then you have the option to change that to less or much less. So not sure what you're asking here?

[Cleon]

Interesting, thanks for the help. Will defenitely check how it plays.

It was in the game last year but has been renamed this year. It used to be 'Penalty Box Player'.

[Dr. Hook]

Hello Cleon, I am trying to use my striker as a target man, but I do not want my defenders just playing it long, any tips on how to do this? I use a single striker in a 4-3-3.

I am no Cleon, but the answer to your question as far as I know is that you can't avoid this problem. In some ways, it works as it should. The guy is a target for passes, so they will lump it forward to him whenever it is practical (or not, even) to do so. But, I don't like to use it much because it gives away the ball too much for my taste. The one time I had some success with it was as a target man support with players nearby to receive the flickons or passes and such.

I think that to get what you want you can't really use target man role as it stands. Better to probably use him as an advanced forward and get crosses into the box where he will be. That might be one way to achieving this.

[roggiotis]

Is it the T.I '' dribble less '' the opposite of ''run at the defense " ?

[all4everdragon]

A wingback on attack is set to close down sometimes already. Then you have the option to change that to less or much less. So not sure what you're asking here?

The issue is that "sometimes" is not in the PI, not even as hard-coded, the only two options are close down less or much less. Wouldn't it be more clarifying if we could see that he's already set to close down sometimes ?

[Cleon]

The issue is that "sometimes" is not in the PI, not even as hard-coded, the only two options are close down less or much less. Wouldn't it be more clarifying if we could see that he's already set to close down sometimes ?

You can already see him as this though.

And that's with the TI of close down much more active.

So I've still no idea what you are on about.

[macca72]

Stupid question #6346254

If I ask players to aim crosses at a target man, but don't employ one, what happens?

Ta

[Cleon]

Stupid question #6346254

If I ask players to aim crosses at a target man, but don't employ one, what happens?

Ta

Nothing because you don't have one.

[macca72]

Nothing because you don't have one.

Suspected so, thanks.

[all4everdragon]

You can already see him as this though.

And that's with the TI of close down much more active.

So I've still no idea what you are on about.

Thanks for the screenshot, I do not remember what I had set, but I had some TI to close down more and the winback PI didn't have the option to close down like the team. But right now, I'm looking at the False 9 and he can't close down like the team, only less or much less.