Official FM2011 Match Engine Feedback Thread

[grep]

I really think the skating issue is more of an animation problem rather than anything coded into the ME.

But you hit on another good point - if you're 1-0 down in the last ten minutes, switching to overload will cause absolutely nothing to happen for the remainder of the game - no highlights, no free kicks, just nothing. It doesn't always happen, but it does seem to occur more often if your team is losing to someone they should be beating. Using shouts is much more effective in this situation.

I agree 100%, overload tactic is simply a cosmetic selection, like the preferred number of players.

I have never given shouts a try, which one exactly ? thanks

[Romanista.]

I really think the skating issue is more of an animation problem rather than anything coded into the ME.

But you hit on another good point - if you're 1-0 down in the last ten minutes, switching to overload will cause absolutely nothing to happen for the remainder of the game - no highlights, no free kicks, just nothing. It doesn't always happen, but it does seem to occur more often if your team is losing to someone they should be beating. Using shouts is much more effective in this situation.

needs to be fixed.

[grep]

I really think the skating issue is more of an animation problem rather than anything coded into the ME.

You may be right here, anyway I think SI just used the same ME of hockey manager but they forgot to remove the skating " feature " .

I am under the deepest impression the next patch must mitigate this skating issue otherwise people may think to have bought Hockey Manager 11.

[SSGTroyer]

The TC moves sliders for you. If you move the sliders after running the TC, your choices will override the TC's, because all the TC did was give you a starting place to begin with.

Touchline shouts often adjust more than one slider. For instance (iirc), "Pass to Feet" narrows team width, lessens through balls, slightly lowers creativity, and shortens passing style. But if any of those sliders have been set by you, they will not be effected. Your manual slider positions override all, touchline shouts second, TC third.

[Svenc]

Your manual slider positions override all, touchline shouts second, TC third.

Which I think is what Wakers and grep may be doing, overriding by manually adjusting sliders. (I didn't touch the sliders for my "Overload" test above, btw - the team was on "actual overload" for the entirety of the matches played.).

[Aim_Less]

this has to be the most incredible frustrating match engine ever

[SSGTroyer]

I'm much more frustrated that my strikers can't hit the broad side of a barn than I am with the ME itself...

[Aim_Less]

few issues :

Darn goalkeeper not trying to defend long range shots

Strikers missing clear cut chances

Defenders dumb has hell

No pressing at all by the defenders

Moral up dand down randomly

No matter what tactics i use i cant find some consistence

Too many yellow and red cards

[FM1000]

Also PaulC improve the through passing (and maybe off the ball movement)!! I have Ronaldinho and Pirlo in my teal with excellent flair,passing and creativity and 90% of the goal chances come from a cross or a solo run.

In this version of the ME the short passing and through balls are very underrated!!

[Pipson]

After 4 seasons of fm 11 im yet too see a free kick goal over the wall and one on ones are still pathetic and broken

[marioni211]

Played 4 seasons as Milan, two biggest issues I've found:

- Huge number of own goals.

- Huge number of red cards.

It's not just me, it's not my tactics or players, it's all the teams in Serie A - red cards and own goals everywhere.

[zeuS0r]

10.3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11.1.1

[ommerson]

I actually think te ME is pretty good. Clearly improved in comparison to the demo.

but the points made above about desperate defending on sliding strikers (crosses) and the long shots (grasscutters) are true in my eyes. Too many Le Tissiers on the pitch it seems sometimes, even in lower league.

And it still seems odd to me that the cheering looks very lonesome. Players run to the scorer but decide to head back once they're a couple of yard from him. In real life you see players climbing on top of each other, big group hugs, or some high-fives (depending on the importance or beauty of the goal). Purely a cosmetic thing I realise, but it would add to the realism.

I don't know if this is the topic for the stadiums and the surroundings, but those need a lot more diversity I think..

[Fabio MVP]

Any updates Paul?

[PaulC]

Match v907

----------

- Slight reduction in deflections

- Added HASSLE_OPPONENTS, PUMP_BALL_INTO_BOX and SHOOT_ON_SIGHT touchline instructions for AI managers

- Slight tweak to effects of morale on performance

- Fixed players taking unrealistically long first touch when bearing down on goal

- Fixed d-line dropping back too early when ball cleared to halfway by opponents

- Fixed full backs dropping back too deep when ball near opponent's goal and their player to mark still upfield

- Improved lateral positioning of defenders when defending own area

- Some changes to reduce multiple defenders going for same ball

- Made sure player who is best placed to engage ball player in last third always tries to do so

- Some small tweaks to marking of ball player

- Some small tweaks to marking of other players

- Some tweaks to running with ball AI

- Some tweaks to reduce long shots from players asked never to take them

- Tweaks to generic cross, corner and wide free kick target points

- Some small tweaks to on ball decision making AI

- Increased the urgency physios show when attending to head and upper body injuries

Match v908

----------

- Slightly increased curl on corners, free kicks etc

- Fixed players instantaneously reacting to refs whistle as one

- Made players keep up with play slightly quicker when counter attacking

- Fixed slightly overslow movement to mark opponents at dead balls

- More small tweaks to marking and defensive positioning in open play

- Fixed bug causing attackers to misjudge direction opposition d-line is moving in

Match v909

----------

- Tweaked effect of playing out of position on player performance

- Tweaked effect of consistency, nervousness and motivation on player performance

- Tweaked effect of choice of captain on other players' performances

- Tweaked effect of morale on performance

- Some work on passing AI, and choice of pass/cross vs run, shoot etc

- Some work on running with ball AI

- Some reduction in pointless long shots

- Improved penalty accuracy slightly

- Improved shot choice when clear on goal slightly

- Made players stick closer to opponent they are specifically set to man mark when opposition team has ball

- Made players quicker to close down ball receiver after pass is made

- Made defenders get a little tighter to ball player where possible

- Fixed bug causing keeper to come too far out after his team have cleared a corner or free kick

- Fixed some instances of keeper not waiting for ball to come into own area before intercepting it

- Some tweaks to corner aim

- Some tweaks to starting positions of players asked to attack ball at corners

- Improved some off the ball movement, especially of attacking players close to opposition d-line

- Tried to make full backs get a little closer to opposition wide men in general play

- Narrowed midfield slightly in attacking third to create space for attacking full backs

- Given default forward runs setting to advanced playmaker role instead of never

- Fixed bug in use of "standard" strategy for AI teams in FM that caused some anomalies in player instructions

- Tweaked use of strategy and touchline instructions for AI teams in FM

- Increased the chances of other players joining in at goal celebrations rather than leaving the scorer to celebrate solo

[Fabio MVP]

Top man Paul.

I hought AI has the ability to use the same shouts as we do? Also, v909 sounds like the best ME so far ever. Cannot wait to see how it is in practice. One more thing Pau is that final update on ME for the patch or there are likely to be more?

Thanks and cheers.

[paganizer]

Match v907

----------

- Slight reduction in deflections

- Added HASSLE_OPPONENTS, PUMP_BALL_INTO_BOX and SHOOT_ON_SIGHT touchline instructions for AI managers

- Slight tweak to effects of morale on performance

- Fixed players taking unrealistically long first touch when bearing down on goal

- Fixed d-line dropping back too early when ball cleared to halfway by opponents

- Fixed full backs dropping back too deep when ball near opponent's goal and their player to mark still upfield

- Improved lateral positioning of defenders when defending own area

- Some changes to reduce multiple defenders going for same ball

- Made sure player who is best placed to engage ball player in last third always tries to do so

- Some small tweaks to marking of ball player

- Some small tweaks to marking of other players

- Some tweaks to running with ball AI

- Some tweaks to reduce long shots from players asked never to take them

- Tweaks to generic cross, corner and wide free kick target points

- Some small tweaks to on ball decision making AI

- Increased the urgency physios show when attending to head and upper body injuries

Match v908

----------

- Slightly increased curl on corners, free kicks etc

- Fixed players instantaneously reacting to refs whistle as one

- Made players keep up with play slightly quicker when counter attacking

- Fixed slightly overslow movement to mark opponents at dead balls

- More small tweaks to marking and defensive positioning in open play

- Fixed bug causing attackers to misjudge direction opposition d-line is moving in

Match v909

----------

- Tweaked effect of playing out of position on player performance

- Tweaked effect of consistency, nervousness and motivation on player performance

- Tweaked effect of choice of captain on other players' performances

- Tweaked effect of morale on performance

- Some work on passing AI, and choice of pass/cross vs run, shoot etc

- Some work on running with ball AI

- Some reduction in pointless long shots

- Improved penalty accuracy slightly

- Improved shot choice when clear on goal slightly

- Made players stick closer to opponent they are specifically set to man mark when opposition team has ball

- Made players quicker to close down ball receiver after pass is made

- Made defenders get a little tighter to ball player where possible

- Fixed bug causing keeper to come too far out after his team have cleared a corner or free kick

- Fixed some instances of keeper not waiting for ball to come into own area before intercepting it

- Some tweaks to corner aim

- Some tweaks to starting positions of players asked to attack ball at corners

- Improved some off the ball movement, especially of attacking players close to opposition d-line

- Tried to make full backs get a little closer to opposition wide men in general play

- Narrowed midfield slightly in attacking third to create space for attacking full backs

- Given default forward runs setting to advanced playmaker role instead of never

- Fixed bug in use of "standard" strategy for AI teams in FM that caused some anomalies in player instructions

- Tweaked use of strategy and touchline instructions for AI teams in FM

- Increased the chances of other players joining in at goal celebrations rather than leaving the scorer to celebrate solo

Are these updates to the match engine added regularly (through steam) or only in the patches 11.2, 11.3 etc patches?

[Fabio MVP]

Are these updates to the match engine added regularly (through steam) or only in the patches 11.2, 11.3 etc patches?

Those changes are added in patches. And steam automaticlly updates with patches, so you'll get those updates just as everybody else.

[PaulC]

Those changes are what we have so far for 11.2 and its being tested in both FM beta and FML beta.

There will be a few more changes on top of those and I'll try to keep you updated of them here.

[CityAndColour]

Any word on professional fouls that, well, aren't?

Just had another where the defender has fouled out on a wing, with two defenders in the middle, but has been sent off. Have seen this quite a few times. May upload the PKM.

[PaulC]

Its been mentioned before but isnt in my priority list for 11.2, so if you have multiple examples best upload them in the bugs forum.

[CityAndColour]

Is it possible to save a PKM from a previous match or do you have to do it before you leave the live match screen?

[PaulC]

You can do it from old matches, by clicking on the result and selecting from the usual menu.

[BossAsianMafia]

Thanks PaulC the changes look great. Can I ask whether it's by design that Box-to-Box midfielders have long shots at Often? Shouldn't it be Forward Run at Often instead?

[Dicko99]

thanks for the update paulc, good to see long shots are being tweaked. are we talking early or late december for release?

[PaulC]

Re box to box - not sure why they have long shots. Forward runs often? Tough one. You certainly wouldnt want them at never but you dont want them hanging forward either........I'll give it some thought......

[PaulC]

I dont know the 11.2 release date at this stage I am afraid, but I'd guess mid December at the earliest.

[grep]

Its been mentioned before but isnt in my priority list for 11.2, so if you have multiple examples best upload them in the bugs forum.

Sorry Paul, is there any chance to share which are your priorities for 11.2 ? I am enjoying the game now so it is mere curiosity

[Dicko99]

I dont know the 11.2 release date at this stage I am afraid, but I'd guess mid December at the earliest.

around the 17th when i break up for xmas

[Mons]

Sorry to bother you, PaulC, but are there any plans for an improvement in free-kicks? Currently, and ever since FM10, no free-kicks are ever scored by being curled OVER the wall. Plenty being curled around it but none at all over it. Bit unrealistic, as even at lower levels irl it's not very rare. I seem to remember them in FM09 and previous iterations and it's a pity they've been taken out or their probability this drastically reduced.

[grep]

around the 17th when i break up for xmas

How comes you have so much holidays ?

There must be an issue, usually on Xmas you should have no more than a a week - 10 days of vacation.

Please double check your math.

[BossAsianMafia]

Re box to box - not sure why they have long shots. Forward runs often? Tough one. You certainly wouldnt want them at never but you dont want them hanging forward either........I'll give it some thought......

Thanks for looking into this. Always bugged me that Box-to-Box midfielder is the only role that has Long Shot set to Often by default in the TC.

Somebody must have thought B2B = Steven Gerrard = Long Shot Often but in real life people like Keane were never known for their abilities from long range.

[Elhan]

First of all, I am not sure if I am posting in the right thread - let me know if not. The efficiency of crosses has been discussed before as far as I know, but I would like to add my own angle on it. After many, many matches, I am convinced that when a cross is made, and both a defender and an attacker jump for it, the attributes that should determine the outcome (like strength, jumping, height etc) either play no role at all or play too small a role. To an extent, this is understandable: the attacker is trying to head the ball in the same direction in wich he is moving, wich makes it easier for him. But for me, the way things work at the moment, it's just not realistic. I have had the midget known as Carlos Tevez win headers against my team while being marked by a couple of towering center backs and a DM at the same time, while the player taking the cross was also being double marked. It is not a remote case, it has happened a lot more often than I would have though normal. Check out this example as well (screenshots further down): after a free kick, Diego Buonanotte, possibly the game's worst player in the air (he has a jumping attribute of 1, heading 1, strength 5, and is incredibly short), beats the opponent's keeper in the air for the ball. Now the only realistic way I would ever think that possible, would be for the keeper to slip on a strategicaly placed banana peel. Do crowds in FM strategically place banana peels near their opponent's goal?

[ManUTactician247]

Even when I managed Buonanotte on FM10 he managed to score a couple of headers so ou can say he loves defying his stats

[Elhan]

Even when I managed Buonanotte on FM10 he managed to score a couple of headers so ou can say he loves defying his stats

My point is, it's not just him, this is just an example. But far too often players who are terrible in the air win crosses against defenders that are much, much better in the air.

[PaulC]

First of all, I am not sure if I am posting in the right thread - let me know if not. The efficiency of crosses has been discussed before as far as I know, but I would like to add my own angle on it. After many, many matches, I am convinced that when a cross is made, and both a defender and an attacker jump for it, the attributes that should determine the outcome (like strength, jumping, height etc) either play no role at all or play too small a role. To an extent, this is understandable: the attacker is trying to head the ball in the same direction in wich he is moving, wich makes it easier for him. But for me, the way things work at the moment, it's just not realistic. I have had the midget known as Carlos Tevez win headers against my team while being marked by a couple of towering center backs and a DM at the same time, while the player taking the cross was also being double marked. It is not a remote case, it has happened a lot more often than I would have though normal. Check out this example as well (screenshots further down): after a free kick, Diego Buonanotte, possibly the game's worst player in the air (he has a jumping attribute of 1, heading 1, strength 5, and is incredibly short), beats the opponent's keeper in the air for the ball. Now the only realistic way I would ever think that possible, would be for the keeper to slip on a strategicaly placed banana peel. Do crowds in FM strategically place banana peels near their opponent's goal?

Would really need to analyse the pkm of that match to know whether it was a genuine bug or not......

[stepye]

Hi,

From reading the ME updates that you have done so far am i right in thinking that you have tweaked striker one-on-one opportunities with the goalkeeper?

The sheer amount of very good one-on-one chances that i to create and are missed in a match is very annoying.

[milnerpoint]

Interesting stuff, I will double check the effects of overload for 11.2.

i gave this and try and he is correct, when you start with overload you are very likely to score early and put the opposition on the back foot, from there, especially at home you can hammer teams, obviously it can leave you open at times at the back but not as much as it should. I think what it seems to be doing is increasing pressing and tempo but not making the defense line as high, so you dont throw men forward as quick but you do close down very quickly and hence you either win posession or the opposition makes a mistake. I think a small tweat of the defensive line would make me less likely to use it.

[Wakers]

I don't think the point should be making you less likely to want to use it, it should be that the opposition knows how to play against it, or defend against for that matter, which again comes back to a lack of quality defensive ai in the match engine.

[milnerpoint]

I don't think the point should be making you less likely to want to use it, it should be that the opposition knows how to play against it, or defend against for that matter, which again comes back to a lack of quality defensive ai in the match engine.

i should have worded that properly, i would still use it but i wouldnt start games with it as it could leave my defense too open at the start of the game.

[pelicanstuff]

First of all, I am not sure if I am posting in the right thread - let me know if not. The efficiency of crosses has been discussed before as far as I know, but I would like to add my own angle on it. After many, many matches, I am convinced that when a cross is made, and both a defender and an attacker jump for it, the attributes that should determine the outcome (like strength, jumping, height etc) either play no role at all or play too small a role. To an extent, this is understandable: the attacker is trying to head the ball in the same direction in wich he is moving, wich makes it easier for him. But for me, the way things work at the moment, it's just not realistic. I have had the midget known as Carlos Tevez win headers against my team while being marked by a couple of towering center backs and a DM at the same time, while the player taking the cross was also being double marked. It is not a remote case, it has happened a lot more often than I would have though normal. Check out this example as well (screenshots further down): after a free kick, Diego Buonanotte, possibly the game's worst player in the air (he has a jumping attribute of 1, heading 1, strength 5, and is incredibly short), beats the opponent's keeper in the air for the ball. Now the only realistic way I would ever think that possible, would be for the keeper to slip on a strategicaly placed banana peel. Do crowds in FM strategically place banana peels near their opponent's goal?

It's hard to tell just from a screenshot but it looks to me like the keeper is aiming to claim the ball at too low a point in its trajectory, enabling Buonanotte to nip in in front of him. I have noticed that keepers seem to be claiming crosses at chest hight quite often rather than above their head.

[jib]

mis-posted! yes im an idiot

[akkm]

Has the effectiveness of the passing/playmaker/trequartista been addressed

[heapsy]

For me, the biggest thing (aside from Strikers missing incredibly easy chances when under no pressure - it seems the easier the chance, the easier the miss) is the amount of long shots scored by players with low to average long shot rating - 10 or 12, and by coincidence this is either their first goal of the season or ever. In my first 14 games in the EPL i conceded around 10 long shot goals, all scored by players with 9-12 on long shots, and all of them their 1st goal of the season. Players like Cattermole and Sagna, who have never scored from long range in their whole life coincidently score their first ever goal against me.

On the other side of this, I have Wesley Sneijder in my team playing AMC and so far with 18 on long shots, hasnt scored a single goal in about 25 apps. Somethings clearly broken.

[pelicanstuff]

One other thing I've noticed is that when trying to pick up a slightly misdirected pass, players sort of shuffle backwards and sideways to try and reach it, even if the pass is moving slowly enough that they could more effectively come towards it to pick it up.

[edgar555]

For me, the biggest thing (aside from Strikers missing incredibly easy chances when under no pressure - it seems the easier the chance, the easier the miss) is the amount of long shots scored by players with low to average long shot rating - 10 or 12, and by coincidence this is either their first goal of the season or ever. In my first 14 games in the EPL i conceded around 10 long shot goals, all scored by players with 9-12 on long shots, and all of them their 1st goal of the season. Players like Cattermole and Sagna, who have never scored from long range in their whole life coincidently score their first ever goal against me.

On the other side of this, I have Wesley Sneijder in my team playing AMC and so far with 18 on long shots, hasnt scored a single goal in about 25 apps. Somethings clearly broken.

But how many thousands of players have your team come up against who didn't score their first(ever or seasons) goal against you? Way more than do. Remove the selective memory.

[Loversleaper]

For a moment, I would like to bring to attention the 'Manager Interaction' feature in the game. Now, I think we have quite a few options but they all seem basically the same in nature, either you are positive or negative with the opposition Manager. In the real world a lot of Managers speak about there own team, in some cases maybe to relieve the pressure on their players or defending tactics/players.

When opposition managers 'attack' you and try to put you under pressure, it is a little one sided that you can only talk about the opposition. So, I was hoping that in the future that we will have the option to 'talk' about our own team so we have the option/ability to gaurd our own team from 'external attacks' and/or to be able to motivate our own team with cunning Interaction/Press Conferences...

[milnerpoint]

For me, the biggest thing (aside from Strikers missing incredibly easy chances when under no pressure - it seems the easier the chance, the easier the miss) is the amount of long shots scored by players with low to average long shot rating - 10 or 12, and by coincidence this is either their first goal of the season or ever. In my first 14 games in the EPL i conceded around 10 long shot goals, all scored by players with 9-12 on long shots, and all of them their 1st goal of the season. Players like Cattermole and Sagna, who have never scored from long range in their whole life coincidently score their first ever goal against me.

On the other side of this, I have Wesley Sneijder in my team playing AMC and so far with 18 on long shots, hasnt scored a single goal in about 25 apps. Somethings clearly broken.

how many long range goals has he scored this season?

[pelicanstuff]

Another little thing I've been noticing - strikers with say a 'reasonable' weaker foot are too inclined to take shots on this weaker foot rather than try and find a way to fashion a chance on their stronger foot. I'd like to see a change in direction and an attempted cut across a defender, and other common little moves like that, to try and make a bit of space on the stronger foot.

[PaulC]

Match v910

----------

- Fixed issue that could cause unrealistic wild clearance under no pressure

- Fixed AI not always replacing injured player when down to 10 men

- Slight tweak to player reaction time to refs whistle

- Some tweaks to marking of ball player to prevent too many players engaging him at once

- Reduced number of pointless passes between players in attacking third

- Reduced dangerous first time passes around own area under pressure

- Slightly reduced player recovery time after shot or pass

- Fixed players being able to lunge for ball and go through opponent to do so without a foul being given

- Fixed players making slide tackle or lunging tackles on opponents when ball in air

- Fixed keepers and defenders pushing forward prematurely on clearance or tackle

- Pushed D-line higher up slightly at extreme settings

- Tweaked penalty accuracy slightly

- Fixed bug causing ball to get stuck under players feet occasionally

- Slight improvement to player reaction after ball he was moving for deflects off him

- Fixed players sometimes slowing down or pulling out when favourites for ball and hence allowing opponent to nip in first

- Toned down number of long shots on weaker foot or from silly distance

- Fixed some instances of wide man running ball out of play at pitch end instead of trying a cross or turn

- Reduced long shot settings for playmakers and box to box midfielders

Match v911

----------

- Slight tweak to injuries to see less physios on the pitch for minor knocks and more share of injuries to injury prone players

- Tightened up marking slightly

- Tweaked decision making of player on wing approaching byeline

- Reduced needless passes into space to team mates in defensive areas

- Slight tweak to number of passes around back depending on directness setting

- Fixed keepers not picking up slide tackles

Match v912

----------

- Fine tuning to passing AI

- Reduced number of times physio comes on to treat player who isnt really hurt

- Slight further reduction in long shots

- Reduced dribbling in defensive third for players set not to do it