FM v Real Life (researchers fault?)

Just a little thread to maybe start a bit of discussion.

Whilst reading the paper today it got me thinking about how players like Javier Hernandez get on in the premiership but on FM, aren't really good enough for Man Utd Reserve team.

Personally, I think that Hernandez must have shown a lot of potential in Mexico, even before the world cup. On FM2010, Hernandez isn't a brilliant player, fair enough, he's good, but not brilliant.

Is this a case of bad research by the FM Reasearchers or did Hernandez really not have brilliant potential before FM2010 was made?

maybe he isnt as brilliant as you think he is in real life.

or becuase there is a lag in the updating of players? they rated him on last season. How could they have then forseen he'd settle so well this season? even most united fans didnt expect that. Im sure when the data is re done again it will be taken into account

Feel free to buy a crystal ball for the researchers. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

But surely he must have shown something whilst playing for Guadalajara and Mexico that would warrant him having a good CA and PA on FM.

Also, if you play with the player before you comment on him, you will notice that he does very well when playing in the Premiership.

Also, if you play with the player before you comment on him, you will notice that he does very well when playing in the Premiership.

On my save he is yet to acheive anything

Just to say I think researchers have limits on the ability they can give. When Hernandez was playing in Mexico there was a limit as to how high he could be rated but now he in England there is still a limit but it is much higher. I think I read that on here before but then again I could be wrong.

Like said, these stats are based on last season's data, when Hernandez was playing for, erm, Chivas?

So, even if he was doing very well in Mexico, the researchers still would have taken into consideration that it is Mexico where the standards are lower than England and given him a PA/CA that reflects that.

A player who excels in Mexico may be average in England - Hernandez hasn't been, so you'd expect his potential to be boosted in future updates, but probably not until 11.3 at the earliest.

Just to say I think researchers have limits on the ability they can give. When Hernandez was playing in Mexico there was a limit as to how high he could be rated but now he in England there is still a limit but it is much higher. I think I read that on here before but then again I could be wrong.

So because Hernandez was playing in Mexico, they had to almost "cap" his ability so he doesn't appear too good for the league?

Um, what do people expect?

If the database of a 30 quid game was 100% accurate, why would football teams spend millions on scouts; they could just load a FM11 quick start, go to the player search screen of the editor and invite all the 160+ PA youngsters for a trial?

Is the database good?

Sure

Is the database 100% accurate and representative for all players around the world?

Off course not.

Um, what do people expect?

If the database of a 30 quid game was 100% accurate, why would football teams spend millions on scouts; they could just load a FM11 quick start, go to the player search screen of the editor and invite all the 160+ PA youngsters for a trial?

Is the database good?

Sure

Is the database 100% accurate and representative for all players around the world?

Off course not.

To be fair, Everton have a deal which allows them to look at the full database, there have also been many instances in which people have admitted to using FM for scouting purposes.

I'm not jumping on the researchers backs about anything, I was just curious as to whether you lot thought it was poor research to not spot potential or that the players don't necessarily develop until they reach a higher level.

To be fair, Everton have a deal which allows them to look at the full database, there have also been many instances in which people have admitted to using FM for scouting purposes.

That's why I said the database is 'good'.

But stating that every entered PA will be 100% accurate is a bit stretching it IMO.

For FM10, Hernandez would've been rated on the back of the 08/09 season, right? Where he scored 7 goals in 32 games and had not even made his debut for Mexico.

At that point, without the help of a crystal ball, I think rating him as they did was fair enough.

I think the FM research team do a super job. How many times over the years has a young player you spotted on FM one year, exploded on the big stage not long after? Yes, they get the odd one wrong but so do highly paid, well connected scouts that work for big clubs.

Didn't Eriksson buy Bojinov for City based on how good he was in FM, or was that just a rumour?

Hernandez is a pretty good poacher in FM2011 regardless of how he's been judged.

I totally understand if the researchers have decided to cap him a bit given he's only been playing in Mexico before. I imagine if his current form continues (within reason) he will be given a much higher potential with further updates/releases.

Didn't Eriksson buy Bojinov for City based on how good he was in FM, or was that just a rumour?

That worked out well for them.

I'm not jumping on the researchers backs about anything, I was just curious as to whether you lot thought it was poor research to not spot potential or that the players don't necessarily develop until they reach a higher level.

Well it's probably a bit harsh to say poor research.

Did they judge his potential wrong? Maybe they did.

But even Ferguson, Wenger and so on have been known to misjudge potential of players.

Fwiw I aspire to be as successful as the FM Researchers one day, they're true heros

FM researchers don't have crystal balls. They're basically just like scouts that don't get paid like those of real top football clubs.

Real clubs get it wrong frequently when judging the abilities and potential of young players so of course some people will seem to be a bit better/worse than real life. Some players will come from nowhere in real life, some highly rated FM players will end up lost in the reserves and lower leagues. Scouting isn't a perfect art at any level.

It's hard to criticise the researchers, over the years i have picked up many a good unknown youngster on FM who has turned into a World Class player for me, only for them to do the same in real life a few years later.

KUTGW.

It is not real life, it is a game. The researchers are just your normal football followers. There is always going to be discrepancies and each game player will probably disagree with other game players about how good actual footballers are. As an example, I believe it is way to early to rate Hernandez.

Just think though about all the youngsters out there at the moment playing in central European Champions League football that are rated with high potential in FM... we all know who they are, but I bet most of your friends who aren't FM Junkies won't.

i.e. Alan Shearer proclaimed on MOTD that he hadn't even heard of Hatem Ben 'Who'!

He may have had potential last season but didn't get in the Mexico starting 11 during the WC iirc.

I think his stats in FM2010 were good for a promising young player

That whole team Eriksson put together at Man City were "FM Signings"

Just think though about all the youngsters out there at the moment playing in central European Champions League football that are rated with high potential in FM... we all know who they are, but I bet most of your friends who aren't FM Junkies won't.

i.e. Alan Shearer proclaimed on MOTD that he hadn't even heard of Hatem Ben 'Who'!

That's Shearer though, and the level of commentary in this country is car-crash territory.

It is true that some players are unable to make the grade to another team but why are English players rated so highly? They are always able to command world transfer records and headlines, this based on FM10. while IRL this is highly unlikely. The favouritism I understand but I dont share the view. Football is a world sport, not like Cricket and even there the England team struggles at times.

Can someone please tell me Hernandez's "poor" potential?

Certainly doesn't look "poor" to me!

Yea utter dross, but just want one of the non researchers to post it to see what the reaction is

Like said, these stats are based on last season's data, when Hernandez was playing for, erm, Chivas?

So, even if he was doing very well in Mexico, the researchers still would have taken into consideration that it is Mexico where the standards are lower than England and given him a PA/CA that reflects that.

A player who excels in Mexico may be average in England - Hernandez hasn't been, so you'd expect his potential to be boosted in future updates, but probably not until 11.3 at the earliest.

This is part of the problem with FM. Everything English is overrated while foreign stuff is underrated. How did England do in the WC? Why dont we see English players starring in other large leagues? Hernandez is as good or better than any young English striker. This isnt to take a shot at the English. There just needs to be better balancing of internationals.

This is part of the problem with FM. Everything English is overrated while foreign stuff is underrated. How did England do in the WC? Why dont we see English players starring in other large leagues? Hernandez is as good or better than any young English striker. This isnt to take a shot at the English. There just needs to be better balancing of internationals.

what has england's world cup got to with player rating?

are u kidding me about hernandez? he has very good attributes and a great personality u want him to be like messi or cr7? he scored 2 goals at the world cup he didn't win it! and now he scored against wolves stoke or wba and he could even score against rangers despite playing the entire match

he has

which is more than enough for now. let him win a trophy that will talk

This is part of the problem with FM. Everything English is overrated while foreign stuff is underrated. How did England do in the WC? Why dont we see English players starring in other large leagues? Hernandez is as good or better than any young English striker. This isnt to take a shot at the English. There just needs to be better balancing of internationals.

I agree with your comments and if FM wants to be a global player then it needs to address this. Saying that I dont want English players to suddenly be rubbish either but its clear they're not as good as is mentioned in-game.

He may have had potential last season but didn't get in the Mexico starting 11 during the WC iirc.

I think his stats in FM2010 were good for a promising young player

he did occasionally but Aguirre was in love with fatty Blanco.

I agree with your comments and if FM wants to be a global player then it needs to address this. Saying that I dont want English players to suddenly be rubbish either but its clear they're not as good as is mentioned in-game.

Compared to what?

England doesn't necessarily (or even often) do well in the World Cup in FM, so one would conclude that other nations' players are just as over-rated, if that is indeed the case for England.

what has england's world cup got to with player rating?

The WC allows us to see how the cream of one nations players match up against the cream of anothers.

This is part of the problem with FM. Everything English is overrated while foreign stuff is underrated. How did England do in the WC? Why dont we see English players starring in other large leagues? Hernandez is as good or better than any young English striker. This isnt to take a shot at the English. There just needs to be better balancing of internationals.

Let's look at Messi and Ronaldo and feel free to do whatever you want.

i know slightly off the point, but maybe better stats for international level, such as how a player performs with his country, how well national team gel would help balance this. In all the saves of FM10 i have had - england have won over half the world cups - now that really is not just coincidence. Research is on the whole very good, but it is hard to know how well anyone will adapt. Wenger signed Jeffers for the same fee he paid for Henry - look at the difference between them, says everything really about the unpredictability of football.

I stopped reading at this point.

tbh that was the end of his post

Compared to what?

England doesn't necessarily (or even often) do well in the World Cup in FM, so one would conclude that other nations' players are just as over-rated, if that is indeed the case for England.[/quote

There was a comment in this thread that Mexico is a step below England in football. This is ridiculous. Firstly, Mexico is a bigger country and has just as many passionate fans. What makes the EPL better is the influx of foreigners. The average Mexican player and the average English player are most likely fairly equal.

england are a bit overrated on fm but i wouldn't say mexico are equal to them irl.

Hernandez looks pretty solid to me really, like he could score 20 a season with a decent team behind him. About as good as Solskjaer who he is often compared to.

Compared to what?

England doesn't necessarily (or even often) do well in the World Cup in FM, so one would conclude that other nations' players are just as over-rated, if that is indeed the case for England.

not just the english players but the english based players are overrated a little.

england are a bit overrated on fm but i wouldn't say mexico are equal to them irl.

On what evidence? Mexican players are starring in many leagues around the world. Mexico and England have been fairly equal in international competitions. Its not well known that Mexico is a very wealthy footie nation due to their media oligarchies pumping millions into their game.

are u kidding me about hernandez? he has very good attributes and a great personality u want him to be like messi or cr7? he scored 2 goals at the world cup he didn't win it! and now he scored against wolves stoke or wba and he could even score against rangers despite playing the entire match

he has

ca 145 pa 175

which is more than enough for now. let him win a trophy that will talk

I think this post should have really ended all discussion. Can't say fairer than that.

FWIW, the researchers for the most part do a fantastic job. It is incredibly difficult and give or take a few occurrences get it bang on.