Newgens or Regens?

Which would you prefer? The 08 and 09 problems with newgens has got me in the mood for regens, but it's not particularly realistic. I'd be happy for SI to put newgens on the back burner until they get right and in the mean time, bring back regens.

For those who don't know, newgens are newly generated randomly, regens are replicas of retired players.

newgens without a doubt

In context though, would you be happy to revert to regens if it meant SI spent time perfecting newgens?

I would personally prefer newgens, gives more variety to the games. It doesn't then feel like you have the same players coming through with different names and other things.

Newgens are by miles an improvement on regens.

Newgens are much better and the only problem I've noticed with them in '09 is a lack of quality GKs. Still a million miles better than finding Zindane by another name the day after he 'retired'!

But they are broken, right?

... Not sure what you mean...? Do you think Newgens are broken? Please elaborate.

In 08 they were too poor, on 09 they are too good afaic. There's never been a happy medium.

In 08 they were too poor, on 09 they are too good afaic. There's never been a happy medium.

Some people are never happy though

Maybe FM10 will have them perfect. I don't know how regens and newgens are created etc. In my eyes I just see FM08 with regens/newgens set at 1 and FM09 has them set a 10, both too low or high. Set it at 5. Bobs your uncle. Unfortunately I can't see it being that simple.

Maybe this year they've got it right

Newgens are better, even if done to a poor standard

Is there any evidence that says they are too good in '09? I haven't noticed this but then I don't use genie scout and the like. I do agree that the quality was very poor in '08 but I have noticed a big improvement in '09.

Some people are never happy though

I'm Northern Irish, what do you expect? I'm sure you're used to the "oh it's always raining", "oh it's too warm" brigade

One problem with regens on FM09 is that despite some of them having outstanding PA's, they still have attributes in really odd places, totally irrelevant to their position(s). Really annoyed me when my scout would say "regen X has the potential to be a quality player", but when you look at him, he's a CB with 20 for crossing and Creativity, but 10< for things like tackling, marking etc

In 08 they were too poor, on 09 they are too good afaic. There's never been a happy medium.

But there is balance.

Yes in 08 they lacked physical skills but it was the same for all teams, just a slight issue as real players got older.

In 09 it seems a lot better.

Real players lose physical skills at different times leading to retirement between the ages of 33 & 36 mostly in my experience. The newgens that come through seem to vary, yes there are good players but there seems to be a good spread although I haven't looked to see how it compares with the starting database.

To give an idea though, managing England in 2016 newgens are just breaking through into the squad so I wouldn't say they are too good, in fact I wish I had a few more good ones to pick.

I should point out that i'm not saying "get rid of newgens", i'm saying "get newgens right and in the mean time, revert to regens". Of course newgens are preferable, but i'd like to see them perfect, not too good or too bad.

One problem with regens on FM09 is that despite some of them having outstanding PA's, they still have attributes in really odd places, totally irrelevant to their position(s). Really annoyed me when my scout would say "regen X has the potential to be a quality player", but when you look at him, he's a CB with 20 for crossing and Creativity, but 10< for things like tackling, marking etc

Is this common? I've found plenty of potentially good players who simply don't have the stats to achieve their PA in their position- surely this is realistic...? I like the fact that some players never develop. At the end of the day there are still a small amount of truly world class players regenerated and the spread of ability has seemed farily even to me. I've reached 2025 in my save and I rarely uncover more than one or two fairly promising player each season. However, I have noticed a complete lack of even half-decent Gks.

I'd be interested to see if someone has any data on this issue.

But there is balance.

Yes in 08 they lacked physical skills but it was the same for all teams, just a slight issue as real players got older.

But that doesn't mean that it isn't broken, that's just compensating for it.

GK is the only position that I have trouble getting a world class newgen in. It is a better system than regens, its not broken too much there are alot of good players around in the future and I think thats a good thing.

But that doesn't mean that it isn't broken, that's just compensating for it.

Of course that doesn't mean it wasn't perfect but for me it was still significantly better than regens.

Is this common? I've found plenty of potentially good players who simply don't have the stats to achieve their PA in their position- surely this is realistic...? I like the fact that some players never develop. At the end of the day there are still a small amount of truly world class players regenerated and the spread of ability has seemed farily even to me. I've reached 2025 in my save and I rarely uncover more than one or two fairly promising player each season. However, I have noticed a complete lack of even half-decent Gks.

I'd be interested to see if someone has any data on this issue.

Was really just in the first few seasons I noticed this, and I rarely got past 2013. Although I did once holiday to 2020 and to be fair Liverpool had a squad comprised almost completely of regens who did have realistic-looking abilities, so I think it's more of a short-term issue. I could of course be wrong and I was just unlucky in my games.

But wouldn't regens not work properly as the players' attributes change over time due to ageing, training regime. Remember regens were existing players with different names, who would appear on retirement of the original. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But wouldn't regens not work properly as the players' attributes change over time due to ageing, training regime. Remember regens were existing players with different names, who would appear on retirement of the original. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I actually prefer this idea. When a bunch of players retire, FM should use said players' profiles as a 'template' to create new players, but with their CA vastly reduced to resemble that of a kid, perhaps only altering a couple of attributes so they weren't just identical to the retired player.

Of course, they would have to be given a new name, height, nationality and even PPM's (or none as the case may be) so there could be no real way to determine who they originally 'were'.

Newgens are preferable to regens imo.

The only issues I've had are the occasional odd attribute distribution (similar to Wee Aja's post) and a lack of good full-backs and goalkeepers.

I dont have a problem with this years Newgens, i mean i have found 1or2 with ridiculous attributes for unrelated positions. The things i would say are:

1. How many newgens are ridiculously good a set pieces? amount of CB's i have with 20 for pens.

2. There are (as many people have pointed out) barely any good GK's. Im in 2018 with Newcastle and i have just found a decent one, £14M for 17 year old... until now i havnt touched a newgen goalie - even for england!

3. There always seems to be a scarce numebr of decent Left or Right backs?

4. Its too easy to find a (very) good newgen striker...

I find there is too many fullbacks if anything lol.

Regens, as it keeps the balance of players in the correct nations. But the newgen system is the best it's been in FM2009, if improved futher my opinion would change. But in 2009 there are too mnay random new gens from lesser footballing nationd such as Uzbekistan, Sierra Leone, etc which eventually destroys the balance IMO. Also the Keeprs are rubbish.

I actually prefer this idea. When a bunch of players retire, FM should use said players' profiles as a 'template' to create new players, but with their CA vastly reduced to resemble that of a kid, perhaps only altering a couple of attributes so they weren't just identical to the retired player.

Of course, they would have to be given a new name, height, nationality and even PPM's (or none as the case may be) so there could be no real way to determine who they originally 'were'.

If I remember correctly the only thing regens shared with their original counterpart was Potential ability and posistion (which could be changed by training/use in games). There were downloadable devices to work out who was who and I remember checking on 01/02 what had become of Romario in my game and he was playing in the English Second Division with average attributes. So it wasn't a terrible system; some players never fulfilled they're potential, others did much better at fulfilling potential than their real-life 'template.'

Saying that it had much the same problems as newgens as the new players tended not to be as good as their originals so about ten years into any game the top teams were stocked almost exclusivly with over-30's. I'm not sure theres a massive difference in terms of gameplay though I'd probably just side with newgens.

Accidently voted regens, meant newgens:D

Which would you prefer? The 08 and 09 problems with newgens has got me in the mood for regens, but it's not particularly realistic. I'd be happy for SI to put newgens on the back burner until they get right and in the mean time, bring back regens.

I find the logic a bit daft, tbh. Nobody want SI to put the problem on a 'backburner' - I sincerely hope they've dedicated a lot of attention to improving newgens for FM10. They got rid of regens for a very good reason - it was a rubbish system. Better regens is surely the way to go.

One problem with regens on FM09 is that despite some of them having outstanding PA's, they still have attributes in really odd places, totally irrelevant to their position(s). Really annoyed me when my scout would say "regen X has the potential to be a quality player", but when you look at him, he's a CB with 20 for crossing and Creativity, but 10< for things like tackling, marking etc

Not to sound like ass, but why not retrain him to play on the wing as a wingback? Even he doesn't reach his full potential at least he could be servicable to sell on at a later date.

I retrain newgens all the time, it's not uncommon for young players IRL to do this as well.

GK is the only position that I have trouble getting a world class newgen in. It is a better system than regens, its not broken too much there are alot of good players around in the future and I think thats a good thing.

I have 6 GK at Aston Villa (2021) at the moment..

One original DB player, 1 Newgen I brought & 4 from my academy

Not sure of whether or not they are World class potentially but don't have any randomly high attributes

They all do seem to have high eccentricity though... I thought they fixed that with the low penalties problem the Newgens had in fm08

But I'm probably wrong

Definitely Newgens...

You get attached to the little imperfections in thier personalities

Newgens for me - Alot more variety and fun.

Agreed. On '08 for me though, my good newgens all have decent physical stats so I find they work great.

I've not had a problem with Newgens on '09, I think they're a vast improvement on 08. You now get a greater, and much more realistic variety such as:

- Players with a high PA but really low starting CA, so they have the potential to be good but will probably never reach that potential. Or they may only get there later in their career, like some players in real life.

- Players with high PA and average starting CA, so they have potential and with the right training etc have the chance to reach that potential

- Players with high PA and high starting CA. These are your Ronaldo's and Messi's. Wonderkids from an early age who will go on and improve even more as they gain experience

- Players with high starting CA but a PA that is not much higher. These are the players that are good as youngster, but never actually improve over that initial talent. They will be wonderkids but never go onto be worldclass.

- Rubbish players and everything inbetween.

In 08 you only really got one type of good player, and that was players with high PA but low starting CA, so that no newgens were any good before the age of 24, at which point, if they had a high PA, they would become top class regardless.

So the newgens in '09 are excellent imo. Acidburn mentione a problem finding world class newgen goalkeepers, and this I would agree with. So I'd like to see that and a couple of other things improved, such as the attribute distribution mentioned by someone else, but all in all they've definitely improved massively this year.

I've not had a problem with Newgens on '09, I think they're a vast improvement on 08. You now get a greater, and much more realistic variety such as:

- Players with a high PA but really low starting CA, so they have the potential to be good but will probably never reach that potential. Or they may only get there later in their career, like some players in real life.

- Players with high PA and average starting CA, so they have potential and with the right training etc have the chance to reach that potential

- Players with high PA and high starting CA. These are your Ronaldo's and Messi's. Wonderkids from an early age who will go on and improve even more as they gain experience

- Players with high starting CA but a PA that is not much higher. These are the players that are good as youngster, but never actually improve over that initial talent. They will be wonderkids but never go onto be worldclass.

- Rubbish players and everything inbetween.

In 08 you only really got one type of good player, and that was players with high PA but low starting CA, so that no newgens were any good before the age of 24, at which point, if they had a high PA, they would become top class regardless.

So the newgens in '09 are excellent imo. Acidburn mentione a problem finding world class newgen goalkeepers, and this I would agree with. So I'd like to see that and a couple of other things improved, such as the attribute distribution mentioned by someone else, but all in all they've definitely improved massively this year.

I agree with all your comments there, i think SI have got the newgens just right this year, i've seen no problems with getting good players in any position bar goalies, to be fair there are few great goalies IRL.

Also i have seen some analysis done on newgens coming through (good thread on this in the challenges forum) and there are goalies with high PA but they don't play at a young age and so rarely reach their potential.

I believe the newgens need to develop more slowly than they did in 2009. It seemed like the good ones were would be world class by the time they turned 18-19

They were originallt REGENs.

Then they became NEWGENs.

Haven't they been called FREDs for a while now though?:confused:

Newgens all the way!

Scouting is already a chore as it is, the last thing I need is flicking through every lower division U19 team hoping to find the "New ____".

And yes, newgens are far from perfect: I agree some of them have a rather odd skills distribution, many will never ever fullfill their potential, and I've noticed a general lack of Natural Fitness for most of them.

But still better than having the same-ish players over and over again.

I believe the newgens need to develop more slowly than they did in 2009. It seemed like the good ones were would be world class by the time they turned 18-19

I completely disagree. There are some world class young players that come through, but not a lot, and as I said earlier these represent the world class young players that you get in real life. The other high PA players develop in a realistic way imo.

I agree with all your comments there, i think SI have got the newgens just right this year, i've seen no problems with getting good players in any position bar goalies, to be fair there are few great goalies IRL.

Also i have seen some analysis done on newgens coming through (good thread on this in the challenges forum) and there are goalies with high PA but they don't play at a young age and so rarely reach their potential.

I would agree with that. Looking at my current game in 2016 a lot of the top teams have good young GKs but most hardly get a chance to play.

It does happen in other positions as well though just not to the same extent.

To give an example: As England there were 3*DCs came through at the same time with high PAs (From scout reports) and are now 22yo.

Wade is at Portsmouth, made his debut in the Premiership at 18yo and has increased playing time each season, now a first choice DC and virtually fully developed.

Hammond is at Crystal Palace, has been a regular first team player since he was 18yo in the lower divisions and now in the Premiership since promotion last season. Not as far on as Wade but will probably match him over the next couple of seasons.

Upcott is at Tottenham, not had very much playing time and not developed as well as the other two. He'll probably never reach his PA now although he is still a good DC.

It does happen in other positions as well though just not to the same extent.

i've been playing in dafuges challenge and am now in the premiership in 2030 and in several years i have had youth players come through who are leading prem potential, none have ever amounted to anything as i have world class players in most positions and 2 in some and they simply don't get a game and don't develop, this appears to be the same for most of the top clubs.

I have had several wonderkids but they are one's i have bought from outside England as very good backup players who then become wonderkids.

I have seen issues with the devlopment of GK's I have to admit.

In the Monkeys/Softies game from CSE, we are in 2032.

There have been some catastrophic signings of GK's who have either a poor aerial ability score, a poor positioning score, or both.

Man City were spectacularly relegated from the Premiership in May 2028 while the European and World Champions after signing a particulary poor GK. The rest of their squad stayed much the same as it had for the previous years, (where they were obviously doing well), and after finishing 1st, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 4th & 6th, they were booted out of the Premierhip after conceding more than double their usual tally.

The reason?

A GK who is classed as decent by the AI (capped by England at U21 level and valued at £4.1M), but who now at the age of 29 only has an aerial ability score of 6.

His other attributes are good it's just that he bombs in this particular area.

Chelsea, (who have won 7 of the last 9 titles), have a GK valued at £7.1M. His aerial ability is good, but his positioning is poor at only 13, and his communication is only 8. Chelsea have been the dominant force in the game for almost a decade now and their run has come to an end because they have been unable to replace a good ageing GK.

Tottenham seem to be ultra busy in the transfer market each season, and are always in for the better players available, however they ultimately fail to live up to current, (within the game) expectations simply because their Spanish International GK has an aerial ability attribute of of only 8. (He recently conceded friendly goals against Ebbsfleet and Wycombe in pre-season).

Liverpool are also wallowing in the bottom half of the table. When I look at their senior GK.... Aerial ability of 12.

I must admit that the other positions look good, but GK certainly seems off in this 1 particular save.

I am still have Craig Gordon as my GK and he is 36 this season as I have failed to find a decent newgen that can replace him.

Has to be Newgens... dont like the concept of regens.

Newgens for me. I feel that 09 got them about right, with the exception of GKs. A little tweaking between versions will hopefully have fixed that problem.

To be fair though, there are very few great all-around keepers in real life too.

Even many who play at an International level do have their weaknesses in some specific areas. So in a way having average GK Newgens is acceptable

Why not have both?

Newgens begin to exist after a season anyway, alongside real players. So why not keep the real player builds through regens as well?

It would certainly keep the later seasons competitive since the real players are the only ones with worthy attributes for AI teams. Newgen teams are atrocious, seasons get easier and easier as they don't aggressively work to get the best stock, while you're free to monopolise them.

To be fair though, there are very few great all-around keepers in real life too.

Even many who play at an International level do have their weaknesses in some specific areas. So in a way having average GK Newgens is acceptable

But the balance should be kept, so that in 30 years time there are a similar number of GK's with a similar level of ability as there was at the start of the game. This isn't currently the case.