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18 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

But you actually don't have any idea of what the match engine is like in FM19, apart from seeing an alpha that had a set up which focused on going wide.

The beta is out soon enough, would make more sense to wait for that, than make sweeping statements about game engines

I understand what you're saying, but when crosses have been an issue for many versions and patches, and then to see it in the latest version (I appreciate that it was a short alpha video) it's not really a sweeping statement.

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3 minutes ago, trevjim said:

I understand what you're saying, but when crosses have been an issue for many versions and patches, and then to see it in the latest version (I appreciate that it was a short alpha video) it's not really a sweeping statement.

It is when you say it needs a new game engine, based on one alpha

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It is when you say it needs a new game engine, based on one alpha

That's not what I said at all. I said crosses have been an issue for many versions, and that coupled with what we have seen in the Alpha, along with the fact the game engine is the same one introduced in 2008, with graphics that are outdone by mobile games, shows that the game engine is heavily outdated and in need of a new one.

Fortunately one is in the works, but seems to be taking longer than expected, and is perhaps why the last couple of versions have seen weaker improvements as man power is used on making the game engine

 

 

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Just now, trevjim said:

That's not what I said at all. I said crosses have been an issue for many versions, and that coupled with what we have seen in the Alpha, along with the fact the game engine is the same one introduced in 2008, with graphics that are outdone by mobile games, shows that the game engine is heavily outdated and in need of a new one.

Fortunately one is in the works, but seems to be taking longer than expected, and is perhaps why the last couple of versions have seen weaker improvements as man power is used on making the game engine

 

 

Firstly, there's not such thing as the game engine, there's the match engine, and the graphics. I assume you mean the former

Secondly, its not the same match engine as 2008

Thirdly the bold just isn't true.

People should really spend less time on wild speculation, and just wait to actually get their hands on it, and make some accurate judgements instead

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14 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Firstly, there's not such thing as the game engine, there's the match engine, and the graphics. I assume you mean the former

Secondly, its not the same match engine as 2008

Thirdly the bold just isn't true.

People should really spend less time on wild speculation, and just wait to actually get their hands on it, and make some accurate judgements instead

He is right, the game or match engine as you call it came out in the fm 2009 version, The graphics engine got a new look in the last version which was 2018

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I couldn't analyse or even tell if Gengenpress was actually working efficiently.. the match camera was bad, the game was on key highlights

i couldn't tell if the pressing system works (assuming you choose the right players, roles, instructions etc) 

How good is the pressing system?

I also need to see if tiki-taka, counter-attacking or park the bus works efficiently in the new ME

Edited by kingking

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10 minutes ago, rubrub said:

He is right, the game or match engine as you call it came out in the fm 2009 version, The graphics engine got a new look in the last version which was 2018

It isn't even close to being the same version as the match engine of 2009

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It isn't even close to being the same version as the match engine of 2009

It was introduced in 2009 (November 2008 to be exact) and has been tweaked/improved since.

Have a look on the football manager wiki is has all the history on there

Edited by trevjim

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Disappointing to see the issue of incredibly distracting ads in 2D still hasn't been addressed. I wouldn't even go on a website with such annoying, flashing ads. You were able to delete a few things to get rid of the ads last year but you really shouldn't have to in a game that costs more than 30 quid 

 

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Just now, trevjim said:

It was introduced in 2009 (November 2008 to be exact) and has been tweaked/improved since.

Have a look on the football manager wiki is has all the history on there

The ME wasn't new. The 3d was.

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When FM19 Beta arrives

I want everyone to test the Tactical Styles and report any issues 

Choose a quality team, such as FC Bayern Munich

If the tactical Styles are flawed and have many bugs... then report them please 

such as the pressing style of gegenpress, or the passing style of tiki taka

Edited by kingking

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3 minutes ago, trevjim said:

It was introduced in 2009 (November 2008 to be exact) and has been tweaked/improved since.

Have a look on the football manager wiki is has all the history on there

Which makes it a vastly different version to 2009...

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Just now, kingking said:

I want everyone to test the Tactical Styles and report any issues 

choose the best team, such as bayern munich

If the tactical Styles are flawed, have many bugs... then report them please

The tactical styles aren't supposed to be perfect. They're a starting base to work from.

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The ME wasn't new. The 3d was.

I also think people are really hung up on something being completely new to be different. Which really isn't the case

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Let's not get derailed and defensive but get back to the original question...

Has SI acknowledged that there have been to many goals coming from crosses in the previous versions (FM17 and FM18)?

I think the answer to that question is no.. and that's what worries me, especially when I see the gameplay for FM19.

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Just now, borisbachalov said:

Let's not get derailed and defensive but get back to the original question...

Has SI acknowledged that there have been to many goals coming from crosses in the previous versions (FM17 and FM18)?

I think the answer to that question is no.. and that's what worries me, especially when I see the gameplay for FM19.

The answer is that it depends on the setup. For FM19, we obviously don't know.

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Just now, borisbachalov said:

Let's not get derailed and defensive but get back to the original question...

Has SI acknowledged that there have been to many goals coming from crosses in the previous versions (FM17 and FM18)?

I think the answer to that question is no.. and that's what worries me, especially when I see the gameplay for FM19.

Wait and see, it's out soon enough

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10 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The ME wasn't new. The 3d was.

So when was the current match engine introduced? 2005?

Edited by trevjim

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Just now, trevjim said:

So when was the current match engine introduced? 2005?

I started in 2008, so I don't know. From my understanding, it's always been worked on and improved, at least from CM4 days. Could be wrong here though. As I said, I got involved in FM around 2008. Still, the ME gets improved every year (except Fm11/12) so it's not correct to say it's the same ME.

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4 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I started in 2008, so I don't know. From my understanding, it's always been worked on and improved, at least from CM4 days. Could be wrong here though. As I said, I got involved in FM around 2008. Still, the ME gets improved every year (except Fm11/12) so it's not correct to say it's the same ME.

The trouble is, despite all the improvements, it is still the same engine as it will have its own limitations.

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I started in 2008, so I don't know. From my understanding, it's always been worked on and improved, at least from CM4 days. Could be wrong here though. As I said, I got involved in FM around 2008. Still, the ME gets improved every year (except Fm11/12) so it's not correct to say it's the same ME.

I remember when the match engine was first introduced it was a mess, and SI have done well to improve it, but I do feel it is showing its age now

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Just now, rubrub said:

The trouble is, despite all the improvements, it is still the same engine as it will have its own limitations.

It isn't. There has been a lot of changes to it.

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Just now, trevjim said:

I remember when the match engine was first introduced it was a mess, and SI have done well to improve it, but I do feel it is showing its age now

You just said it was 2009, which it wasn't.

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The BETA is out tomorrow, so you can find out for yourselves and end the pointless speculation.

 

EDIT: I tell a lie, it's not. Fake Miles on Twitter. Back to pointless speculation

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18 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The tactical styles aren't supposed to be perfect. They're a starting base to work from.

True.. however I would just like to see a noticeable different in play from counter-attacking football and control possession in tactical style

I will play a match in 2D and watch it in Full.

During the match  I will change tactic style every 20-30 minutes and see how my players follow the instructions.

Hopefully there isn't any bugs in the team instructions of each tactical style, after and before i make changes to improve them

 

 

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2 minutes ago, kingking said:

True.. however I would just like to see a noticeable different in play from counter-attacking football and control possession in tactical style

I will play a match in 2D and watch it in Full.

During the match  I will change tactic style every 20-30 minutes and see how my players follow the instructions.

Hopefully there isn't any bugs in the team instructions of each tactical style, after and before i make changes to improve them

 

 

That's... a terrible idea

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2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The BETA is out tomorrow, so you can find out for yourselves and end the pointless speculation

I'm really looking forward to tomorrow evening :D 

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Just now, decapitated said:

I'm really looking forward to tomorrow evening :D 

Don't get your hopes up too much, This guy edited his post

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Just now, kingking said:

True.. however I would just like to see a noticeable different in play from counter-attacking football and control possession in tactical style

I will play a match in 2D and watch it in Full.

During the match  I will change tactic style every 20-30 minutes and see how my players follow the instructions.

Hopefully there isn't any bugs in the team instructions of each tactical style, after and before i make changes to improve them

 

 

1) You're not going to be able to seamlessly change from style to style without consequences.

2) It still depends on the team and the players, so you're not going to have a great setup by doing this. You'll have a starting spot, yes, but not more. It'll require analysis instead of just switching every few minutes to something brand new.

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6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The BETA is out tomorrow, so you can find out for yourselves and end the pointless speculation.

 

EDIT: I tell a lie, it's not. Fake Miles on Twitter. Back to pointless speculation

Some people are very sad

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31 minutes ago, kingking said:

When FM19 Beta arrives

I want everyone to test the Tactical Styles and report any issues 

Choose a quality team, such as FC Bayern Munich

If the tactical Styles are flawed and have many bugs... then report them please 

such as the pressing style of gegenpress, or the passing style of tiki taka

Would Sir like to view the wine list too?

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Just now, cris182 said:

Don't get your hopes up too much, This guy edited his post

I did wonder why I didn't see it announced on here or miles twitter page  :(. I think Miles needs to get blue ticked/verified on twitter to avoid this sort of thing. He's notable enough for it. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The tactical styles aren't supposed to be perfect. They're a starting base to work from.

This is being echoed by some on the forum but does it really match what was said on Steam / the game having videos representing how you should expect the system to play

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Just now, treble_yell_:-) said:

This is being echoed by some on the forum but does it really match what was said on Steam / the game having videos representing how you should expect the system to play

I have no idea, but what's being said is true - don't expect plug and play perfection. It's a starting point. You may or may not have to tweak.

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

don't expect plug and play perfection

I'm afraid the genie is out of the bottle and this is exactly what many expect.

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Just now, rdbayly said:

I'm afraid the genie is out of the bottle and this is exactly what many expect.

They'll be disappointed then.

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45 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Which makes it a vastly different version to 2009...

 

25 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

You just said it was 2009, which it wasn't.

I think the guy is right, or at least not far wrong.

The match engine was redone in 2008 for the 2009 version. I do agree, it is showing its age, but thankfully the team are working on a new one

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jb3lHuO.jpg

8oaJY8l.png

 

Fair enough if it's not finished, etc., maybe they add more variation and it looks real good in the end. I just want to know why they moved away from the FM08-FM16 generated faces and why we can't even get a toggle option. A pretty important part of the game's graphics that you see everywhere in long-term saves looked better ten years ago.

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45 minutes ago, trevjim said:

So when was the current match engine introduced? 2005?

May well be earlier, right back to the days of commentary only.

But even if that's true, the point is moot. The ME will have 1000s of changes each year, bits added on, bits taken away, and will likely be unrecognisable from 2005 and earlier in many respects. It evolves.

Given the complexity of the ME, building a new one from scratch would be a terrible idea as it would take years of trial and error. When CM became FM, and another company (Eidos?) took the CM brand, they built a new ME, and it was poor - as a case in point.

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3 minutes ago, Ruh Roh said:

jb3lHuO.jpg

8oaJY8l.png

 

Fair enough if it's not finished, etc., maybe they add more variation and it looks real good in the end. I just want to know why they moved away from the FM08-FM16 generated faces and why we can't even get a toggle option. A pretty important part of the game's graphics that you see everywhere in long-term saves looked better ten years ago.

They look like Crimewatch e-fits

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3 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

May well be earlier, right back to the days of commentary only.

But even if that's true, the point is moot. The ME will have 1000s of changes each year, bits added on, bits taken away, and will likely be unrecognisable from 2005 and earlier in many respects. It evolves.

Given the complexity of the ME, building a new one from scratch would be a terrible idea as it would take years of trial and error. When CM became FM, and another company (Eidos?) took the CM brand, they built a new ME, and it was poor - as a case in point.

It would be a lot of work (they are apparently working on one already?) but a company that wants to deliver the best product, cant use too much work as an excuse. Yes it will have teething problems but thats what testers are for. If every company used that as a cop out then no engines would be made.  I also believe the championship manager brand failed for many reasons and not just because of the match engine.

Look at PES, they made a new one using the fox engine in 2016, and it was a bit iffy, but the 18 and 19 version of the game is incredible and worth the work put in.

If SI want to still be at the forefront of the genre, they need to be making innovative stepts. Having a match engine that is 10+ years old, will not help. its a shame CM stopped because some competition would be good for the Genre

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9 minutes ago, Ruh Roh said:

jb3lHuO.jpg

8oaJY8l.png

 

Fair enough if it's not finished, etc., maybe they add more variation and it looks real good in the end. I just want to know why they moved away from the FM08-FM16 generated faces and why we can't even get a toggle option. A pretty important part of the game's graphics that you see everywhere in long-term saves looked better ten years ago.

if you didnt have the versions on top of the pictures, you would think the ones on the left are the newer ones.....

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13 minutes ago, Ruh Roh said:

jb3lHuO.jpg

8oaJY8l.png

 

Fair enough if it's not finished, etc., maybe they add more variation and it looks real good in the end. I just want to know why they moved away from the FM08-FM16 generated faces and why we can't even get a toggle option. A pretty important part of the game's graphics that you see everywhere in long-term saves looked better ten years ago.

They all look like they have bruised or broken noses. Its better than the massive foreheads and thousand yard stares of 2017, but 2008-2016 still look better.

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32 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

It'll be box office on here.

Not sure what im more excited about... Playing the beta release... Or coming here to see the meltdown (or both.. Play and join in the meltdown) 

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