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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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I notice the higher than usual goal tallies in playable leagues has returned, which is a bit disappointing. The last update had more realistic scorelines. I suppose that's the knock on effect of strikers converting more of their chances, must be next to impossible to balance properly.

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Well

Positives:

- No more kicking the ball randomly off the end of the pitch trying to get a corner

- Strikers slightly better

Negatives

- Still far too many shots being straight at the keeper, particularly when one on one

- Players still just walk forward with the ball, waiting to be tackled

- Ball engagement is still dire, especially amongst attackers in penalty box

- Fullbacks still reluctant to tackle

- Awful, just awful first touches far too often when the player seems to kick it 5-10 yards in front of him instead of controlling the ball, so defender just strolls over and gets it

- Players running with opponent to get ball (usually strikers or centre backs, both with regards to through balls) getting to within a couple of yards of the ball and suddenly stopping/changing direction of the run so opponent gets it easily

- Player ratings still fairly poor, and don't reflect what happens in the game

All in all, slightly better, but still nowhere near good enough

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Why did you mess so much with the outgoing transfers? I can't sell a player to save my club (so too say).

I get these ridiculous offers off 7m - 10m for players who are valued over 20m.

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Everything's been covered by others on here, too many own goals, too many penalties, too many injuries, strange goalkeeping, full backs decision making still awful (either flying into a tackle in the box or not bothering to put a foot in and allowing a winger to travel thirty yards down the wing), AI transfer offers still a joke and small irritating GUI bugs such as information like player names in goalscoring charts not appearing until I put the cursor over them.

On the plus side, I'm playing some delicious football at times, the font above the players is quite nice, through balls and finishing are improved, different types of goals instead of lob, lob, lob, lob and players aren't making obscene demands.

On the whole though, it's a shambles. We're coming up to the end of 2013 and the game has barely improved since the Beta. This will be the last time I pre-order, may as well wait until the game is enjoyable, like a game should be, until parting with my money.

Shame really.

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conceded a goal, dominating the game, Lloris, boots the ball all the way to my area, where thier strike just runs past de Gea, who steps forward and lets him past..

far less crossing as well, Assistant saying crosses are poor all the time.

but players now where before they were trying to win a corner, get tackled because they are stood about, players still tackling, then possesion ends up lost because they stand there, or get tackled and stand there.

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A minor thing really and it might be partly because of the level I am playing, Serie B. When a striker gets put through on goal they seem to have no awareness of whether they are likely to be caught by a chasing defender or not. They seem to run when they are going to get tackled and shoot from long distance when they could run into the box. I just had a opposition striker shoot from well outside the area and miss widely when he was in no danger of being caught and could have run into the box and almost certainly scored.

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What the hell did you to the poacher role?? My poachers can't score no more, and they scored loads before update... Is there any way to revert to the old version?

You can't go back to a older patch.

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damn what happend to the game... was stable the whole time, and now i get crush dumps clicking the "analysis-button" during match... g.. damn it!!! fix that!!!!!

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Exactly. If I change to attacking, then defensive or counter or contain with the same tactic then 9/10 I concede within 10 minutes, if I change formation or substitute a player with circa 65% condition, exactly the same. The AI does this every single match often changing formation then two minutes later reverting to their normal style. They often change how they are playing over 10-15 times a game. And we're told that the AI tactics and formations suffer the same penalties as the human teams. If this was the case I'd win ever game 10-0.

It just simply isn't the same. I find it churlish that we are expected to believe this, especially when in nearly every match these super AI managers alter stuff every 5-10 minutes. I watch every game in extended highlights.....But I've learn't the hard way just to leave stuff otherwise I concede. Sorry but I don't believe there is a lvl playing field in regards to this.

It's possible the AI isn't changing things as drastic as strategy from Attacking to Counter/Defensive. It might be little things like adding/removing a team instruction. If a tactic is set up for an Attacking game, it shouldn't work when changing to Counter/Defensive. Shouts and Duties will change.
To be fair, tactics should be able to transfer over from patches. I've used the most basic 4-4-2 for two FMs now, albeit with some minuscule changes.

It does, yes. I haven't changed my tactic for the last two updates. I haven't had any problems. It comes back to my post about people setting up tactics to take advantage of an ME weakness. When that weakness is fixed, they start to lose.

What the hell did you to the poacher role?? My poachers can't score no more, and they scored loads before update... Is there any way to revert to the old version?

I'm sure the people in the Tactics Forum will help them if you show them your tactic. Make a thread in there.

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I hope you were agreeing with me Hunter :p

I know it may come as a shock.... but I did. :D

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The only thing that's shocking me is why I'm still up at 4:44am. Why?

Back on topic, has anybody noticed long balls going crazily high in the air on 2D? I haven't downloaded the new patch, but my mate has and he says that he's noticed it.

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Oh, one more thing. Has anyone noticed that players just wait for passes to come to them, making it easy for opposition to intercept? This happens countless times a match and is absolutely infuriating.

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Have a custom league (Cyprus) running with lots of dbc files (but no conflict between them) and apparently prize money is now given twice. Not that I don't welcome this since I won the league, but it's my 5th season and it's the first time this has occured. And it shouldn't really happen.

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It's not "one in a million" for a player to score when there is no goalkeeper from 40-50 yards out. In fact, it's trivial, and if a player missed, it would be absurd.

Have those complaining ever played football? It's about as difficult as a pass over the same distance, for goodness' sakes. I'm pretty sure 50 yard passes are not only accurate every million attempts.

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It's not "one in a million" for a player to score when there is no goalkeeper from 40-50 yards out. In fact, it's trivial, and if a player missed, it would be absurd.

Have those complaining ever played football? It's about as difficult as a pass over the same distance, for goodness' sakes. I'm pretty sure 50 yard passes are not only accurate every million attempts.

I have to ask, did you watch the video?

The player hit that ball first time, with his laces and on the half-volley. Do you know how difficult that is, for any player?

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Ridiculous....

1387521850080267300.jpg

View large image

I would love to see the tactic that caused that! Were a lot of the goals from corners? There seem to be one or two complaints about too many corner goals.

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Hertha Berlino career, I was last after 10 matches, then I slowly started to climb up until 14.2 came out. From the update, I won 6 straight games with some clean sheets, happened only once before that. Now it's January and I'm in a solid 7th position, almost a miracle for the players I have (no transfers in the first window).

The funny thing is that IRL Hertha is doing great and they are in 7th position too, so it seems to be perfect! :)

After 14.2 I can see much more smoothness and my players are really trying to follow my instructions. Some woodworks are still there, with a couple of weird own goals, but I haven't seen strande red cards, injuries or ridiculous AI results, yet. I'll keep playing and posting my feedback.

Thank you and Merry Xmas.

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that's not about tactical systems being solid...a solid tactical system is one that does well against the match engine ..if it also does well against another match engine...that is a different issue.

I really feel there is some value in saying "look here is your game...have it"...then that is my reality to play in and my world that Ithat corre have to conquer...flaws and all

long term saves are being completely derided by this patching...and I think that is a way a lot of people play this game...

it causes these regular and wildly unrealistic peaks and troughs in form that correlate with the new rules for reality that is enforced on us.

And that is quite annoying when the day before I had invested 10 hours into tweaking my system and spent all by budget on the super wing-back...and now suddenly...the way play manifest on the pitch doesn't vaguely resemble how it looked or the results it produced.

patches should go back to being optional....you keep downloading them until you are satisfied...then that's you.....

I cant keep playing if I know the rug is going to be pulled from my feet every fortnight...what is the point in investing time and effort in setting up stuff now that will be no use to me in a fortnight....

a bad match engine is better than one that changes this often.

WTF?

I just proved to you that my tactic worked fine on 14.1.4 and it still works great in 14.2.0.

So your theory that you have to alter everything when new patch arives is wrong as long as your tactic is set up logically.

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Ridiculous....

1387521850080267300.jpg

View large image

what's so ridicilous? you played a side from Gibraltar..amateur presumably and scored nine golas..there's nothing extremly strange in that.

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I'm in season 3 with Rangers and haven't encountered this. I've got to the 1st Jan (pre-contract) and no one asked for only one year. I encountered it in previous seasons with certain players, but that's mainly because they are not sure whether they want to commit.

It's keepers only.

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what's so ridicilous? you played a side from Gibraltar..amateur presumably and scored nine golas..there's nothing extremly strange in that.

Exactly.

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WTF?

I just proved to you that my tactic worked fine on 14.1.4 and it still works great in 14.2.0.

So your theory that you have to alter everything when new patch arives is wrong as long as your tactic is set up logically.

Who says your tactic is logical and his is illogical? This is a game we're talking about. The logic is dictated by its rules and these rules change with each patch. Until the ME is perfect, which will never happen, every tactic will be affected by these rule changes depending on which imbalances get fixed and which are introduced. Sometimes you just get lucky and everything keeps working fine or even better than before. Sometimes you only have to tweak one or two things, but which one or two things can be hard to pinpoint especially when the issues stem from changes to the more abstract and less directly controllable tactical settings like mentality, closing down logic or defensive line. Sometimes everything goes to pot because of a new flaw - yes, it's not always because of an old flaw get's fixed and stops exploits, it does actually work the other way around as well.

I do sympathize with the viewpoint chinch presents. Personally I've almost always been able to pinpoint where I need to change after each patch If there has been a need to change, but that doesn't mean my logic is somehow better than his. It just means I may (or may not) be more adaptable to rules of the game suddenly changing. While simpler tactics with less specifics and more general behavior always carry over better between patches, this is not what everyone wants to use either.

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I never saw, even when it was one of the main issues with the game that was receiving regular posts on here, my keeper get booked for handling the ball outside the area. Then when it was addressed with one of the last patches i assumed i would never see it. However since downloading 14.2 i've seen it 3 times in my 5 pre-season friendlies i've played. Don't know if the issue is back or whether my keeper just decided to mess around because it was only pre-season :lol:.

I won one of those friendlies 9-0, and the opposition centre back scored a hat trick of own goals. That has GOT to hurt :lol:.

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Who says your tactic is logical and his is illogical? This is a game we're talking about. The logic is dictated by its rules and these rules change with each patch. Until the ME is perfect, which will never happen, every tactic will be affected by these rule changes depending on which imbalances get fixed and which are introduced. Sometimes you just get lucky and everything keeps working fine or even better than before. Sometimes you only have to tweak one or two things, but which one or two things can be hard to pinpoint especially when the issues stem from changes to the more abstract and less directly controllable tactical settings like mentality, closing down logic or defensive line. Sometimes everything goes to pot because of a new flaw - yes, it's not always because of an old flaw get's fixed and stops exploits, it does actually work the other way around as well.

I do sympathize with the viewpoint chinch presents. Personally I've almost always been able to pinpoint where I need to change after each patch If there has been a need to change, but that doesn't mean my logic is somehow better than his. It just means I may (or may not) be more adaptable to rules of the game suddenly changing. While simpler tactics with less specifics and more general behavior always carry over better between patches, this is not what everyone wants to use either.

My point is that if your tactical set up is perfectly normal and logical there is no way you'll go from wining 10 in a row on 14.1.4 to losing 7 in a row on 14.2.0.

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Noticed players just standing waiting for a pass as well. Had to change tactic from keeper distributing to defense as a couple of time full back stood still, opposition striker nipped in and scored. Also happens quite a bit when winger cuts inside and lays off to a striker, he stands still and the opposition nip in and take the ball.

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My point is that if your tactical set up is perfectly normal and logical there is no way you'll go from wining 10 in a row on 14.1.4 to losing 7 in a row on 14.2.0.

What is perfectly normal and logical? Which logic are we talking about here? The only logic that matters is the FM logic. If you won 10 in a row before the patch then by the logic at that time the tactic was perfectly normal. But the logic has changed now.

As I said, simpler tactics with less specifics are always less susceptible to this. Even less so if your way of playing is reactive rather than proactive in the sense that you depend more on watching the play and reacting rather than making assumptions and believing in your own logic. But the ultimate conclusion you have reached from your own results and his' is invalid just because FM logic does not equal actual football logic.

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What is perfectly normal and logical? Which logic are we talking about here? The only logic that matters is the FM logic. If you won 10 in a row before the patch then by the logic at that time the tactic was perfectly normal. But the logic has changed now.

As I said, simpler tactics with less specifics are always less susceptible to this. Even less so if your way of playing is reactive rather than proactive in the sense that you depend more on watching the play and reacting rather than making assumptions and believing in your own logic. But the ultimate conclusion you have reached from your own results and his' is invalid just because FM logic does not equal actual football logic.

perfectly normal and logical would be real life tactics and not some tactical solutions that can work in FM but in real life would never work in a million years.

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It's keepers only.

Included in my pre-contract arrangements was a goalkeeper. Asked for a 3 year deal first off.

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perfectly normal and logical would be real life tactics and not some tactical solutions that can work in FM but in real life would never work in a million years.

But this assumes that all perfectly normal and logical real life approaches will work without any hassle in FM, which we simply don't know for certain and might not be true.

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What is perfectly normal and logical? Which logic are we talking about here? The only logic that matters is the FM logic. If you won 10 in a row before the patch then by the logic at that time the tactic was perfectly normal. But the logic has changed now.

As I said, simpler tactics with less specifics are always less susceptible to this. Even less so if your way of playing is reactive rather than proactive in the sense that you depend more on watching the play and reacting rather than making assumptions and believing in your own logic. But the ultimate conclusion you have reached from your own results and his' is invalid just because FM logic does not equal actual football logic.

Exactly, there is little or no Football Logic involved just Game Logic which changes every single time there is a new patch.

Since the patch all i see are the following......

1. Goals galore for the AI from set pieces.

2. Direct free kick or effort from distance from the AI that hits the crossbar keeper dives away from goal leaving a tap in for opposing striker as my defenders never react.

3. My two defenders on 1 AI striker, through ball to him and Neither defender makes a challenge just stop, striker runs through for a 1 on 1.

Basically, players with good decisions making poor and ridiculous decisions(human anyway) how do you deal with that in a tactical sense?

I'm sure in a day or so there will be tactics available that work again, will they be taking advantage of a ME glitch? who cares? if it stops so many soft goals going in why worry?

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But this assumes that all perfectly normal and logical real life approaches will work without any hassle in FM, which we simply don't know for certain and might not be true.

Exactly, and I'm perfectly confident in going even further in saying that it definitely isn't true. Everything more specific requires compromises in FM. A simple 4-4-2 will carry over fine with most patches. A more elaborate 3-5-2 set-up (just an example) with specific movement patterns that relies on certain players doing certain things on a consistent basis can be completely destroyed and not only because of a fixed exploit.

Also, tactics that 'would never work in real life in a million years' do not work in FM anyway, or at least so we're constantly being told. Such tactics wouldn't also have worked in 14.1.4. This argument only works if we're talking about something major like the switch from Fm12 to 13 and the collision detection.

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This is right now the biggest source for me conceding. To make things worse, players with first touch of 16 or more are completely unable to control a pass when an opponent is within 10 feet of them.

This version of FM is also feeling a bit like an arcarde game at times with midfield usually being bridged with 3 passes or less. even on defensive setups I can see my players move the ball forward when clearly not the best option to retain possession/non-dangerous areas. Can'T tell the difference between the tempo settings either.

And then there's the ridiculous amount of times the AI changes tactics, and the devastating effect these changes have. I'm sorry, but just switching to an attacking style and giving players new roles will not turn Sandhausen into Barcelona. These teams don't operate with short, quick passes and dribblings around the best defenders on the globe because the lack the skills to do so. Which brings me to the final point. In certain areas, the skill differences aren'T pronounced enough. Can anyone here tell the difference between a passing 18 and a passing 13 midfielder form watching the ME because I clearly can't. It's all about roles and duties.

Absolutely agreed with all of this. I can't tell the difference between players with amazing technique/first touch stats vs players who have mediocre stats. I think there's currently too much emphasis on the mentality of the team, and maybe the tactics, instead of the actual players. Top level players can play a quick game and not constantly lose possession in real life, but not in this ME.

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Not really. If the ME is always striving to be realistic, then realistic tactics will always be more reliable over the long run than an ME-busting tactic.

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Not really. If the ME is always striving to be realistic, then realistic tactics will always be more reliable over the long run than an ME-busting tactic.

What is a ME-busting tactic these days? Specific examples please?

The only thing that still qualifies under this criteria is something that gets an advantage from the variety of set piece bugs that keep popping up in different guises from patch to patch. To say that you could 'bust' 14.1.4 with something that you can't bust 14.2.0 with doesn't sound remotely believable to me.

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Again I see people still moaning about how their tactics aint working since the new update, do you all not realise that the tactics you have been playing with were adapted purely to beat the ME in the last patch. 14.1.4 had many wee problems, so to get round these problems you changed the tactics to beat the ME and it's wee faults. The ME a has been tweaked and changed to get rid of bugs and other anomalies, therefore you tactic which worked well against the last update may now not work because the ME has bee altered, this is not rocket science folks.

Take for instance a real life match, say Man U v Arsenal. In the 1st game Man U win 3-0 and dominated defence/forward line, Arsen Wenger sees his mistakes and in the return game alters his team and tactics making what worked before for Man U inoperable, Man U will then have to re adjust their game plan and tactics win, as Arsenal are a different performing team.

Too many people have over complicated tactics, or even the downloaded ones which is just lazy game play. good solid basic tactics playing the right players in their correct positions will work with nearly every new update with just a tiny bit of tweaking each time.

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Why did you change things related to transfers? Now we can't sell player who is valued at 20m, not even for 7m. It's ridiculous now, but it was among the rare things that did work in previous versions of the game.

And the ME related changes are criminal. Why would my tactic familiarity suddenly be very low, when I had played with the same tactic for season and a half. Not to mention that I won the league in first season, not by exploiting the ME, but now I can't win even against relegation-zone teams. You are trying hard to make this game to be realistic that you forget that games should be fun and entertaining. Ok, it should be as much realistic as possible, but the game isn't bringing me joy like the old FM series, even if I'm winning or not.

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Absolutely agreed with all of this. I can't tell the difference between players with amazing technique/first touch stats vs players who have mediocre stats. I think there's currently too much emphasis on the mentality of the team, and maybe the tactics, instead of the actual players. Top level players can play a quick game and not constantly lose possession in real life, but not in this ME.

Have you watched some real footie recently, many top players in the top teams are still misplacing passes/getting caught on the ball/blasting over the bar/missing sitters/ etc

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What is a ME-busting tactic these days? Specific examples please?

The only thing that still qualifies under this criteria is something that gets an advantage from the variety of set piece bugs that keep popping up in different guises from patch to patch. To say that you could 'bust' 14.1.4 with something that you can't bust 14.2.0 with doesn't sound remotely believable to me.

Someone gave an example a few pages back. Wingers were supposedly overpowered in the last few iterations, if your tactic relied on Wingers as your only creative force then you're going to have a bad time.

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perfectly normal and logical would be real life tactics and not some tactical solutions that can work in FM but in real life would never work in a million years.

Sorry, have to jump in here. Your argument appears as navel gazing.

Sure, if we were setting up teams irl, we would be applying total real life logic. Playing on FM however, because the ME will never be perfect, often requires a huge dose of working out the current ME of the day and applying tactics that allow your team the best chance of winning.

Of course, you could prefer to just stick with real life logic, completely discarding the fact that that may not work on FM (and as a real life manager of teams over the last 17 years, I can assure you that it often doesn't work fully), but then you won't do as well- It would be like a real life professional team deciding never to foul, never to dive, never to pull a shirt, never to take advantage of opponents weaknesses... instantly making them less effective. This is a choice that you appear to make, and fair enough, that is yours to make.

The overall factor here though is that all of us play the game for different reasons. Some to win whatever, some to try real life theories, some to play long term, some to manage their favourite team from lower leagues to Champions League... the fact you feel YOUR way of playing is the right way over all others is pretty indulgent.

The fact is, many people have their enjoyment of the game impaired with the ME rejigs, and long term gamers essentially feel their time has been wasted. Whether this is the way you, or others, play the game, you don't monopolise the concept and theories on how the game should be played.

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Someone gave an example a few pages back. Wingers were supposedly overpowered in the last few iterations, if your tactic relied on Wingers as your only creative force then you're going to have a bad time.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't wash. A slight reducing of effectiveness in wing play won't take you from 10 consecutive wins to 7 consecutive losses. Besides, wing play was never that overpowered in 14.1.4. In fact the biggest complaint about that version was the fact that the preferred option for any wide player was to try and win a corner at all costs.

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Sorry, have to jump in here. Your argument appears as navel gazing.

Sure, if we were setting up teams irl, we would be applying total real life logic. Playing on FM however, because the ME will never be perfect, often requires a huge dose of working out the current ME of the day and applying tactics that allow your team the best chance of winning.

Of course, you could prefer to just stick with real life logic, completely discarding the fact that that may not work on FM (and as a real life manager of teams over the last 17 years, I can assure you that it often doesn't work fully), but then you won't do as well- It would be like a real life professional team deciding never to foul, never to dive, never to pull a shirt, never to take advantage of opponents weaknesses... instantly making them less effective. This is a choice that you appear to make, and fair enough, that is yours to make.

The overall factor here though is that all of us play the game for different reasons. Some to win whatever, some to try real life theories, some to play long term, some to manage their favourite team from lower leagues to Champions League... the fact you feel YOUR way of playing is the right way over all others is pretty indulgent.

The fact is, many people have their enjoyment of the game impaired with the ME rejigs, and long term gamers essentially feel their time has been wasted. Whether this is the way you, or others, play the game, you don't monopolise the concept and theories on how the game should be played.

Complete nonsense. Just ignore whatever small part of the ME does not live up to expectation and focus on a realistic tactic and you will be succesful. ME iterations are always going to try to be more realistic, so having a realistic tactic can only be good in the long run.

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