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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)


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On 14/11/2019 at 15:18, ChrisCo said:

Fair question, I guess what I am looking for more fundamentally is an effective direct playing style, it is not something I have been able to successfully implement in the last couple of FMs. I have had to use tika-taka/vertical tika-taka to have any success, I get frustrated at the endless recycling of the ball just to fizzle out with a poor attempt from range. I want to implement meaningful direct vertical passing to breakdown teams, but not quite route one. I guess Atletico Madrid's style might be best equated to what I am after.

You can do what van Gaal calls "provoking space". Lower your line of engagement to the halfway line (without dropping your defensive line) in order to tempt the opposition out. Instruct your players never to close down centre halves as you want them on the ball. Press intensely to win the ball back and manufacture counter-ish opportunities.

This doesn't tend to be that difficult in FM as "defensive" teams usually play cautious and responsible possession football and will happily play themselves out if given a little time and space to do so. 

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Hello everyone. This is my first post on the forums but I’m an avid reader and fm player for years and still can’t distinguish between striker and winger roles. Can a knowledgeable person in tactics categorize all striker and winger roles? Which are true number nines, number tens, false nines and tens? By the way I admire the way you play this game @herne79, @Experienced Defender, @Cleon, @Rashidi and @sporadicsmiles:)

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4 hours ago, frukox said:

Hello everyone. This is my first post on the forums but I’m an avid reader and fm player for years and still can’t distinguish between striker and winger roles. Can a knowledgeable person in tactics categorize all striker and winger roles? Which are true number nines, number tens, false nines and tens? By the way I admire the way you play this game @herne79, @Experienced Defender, @Cleon, @Rashidi and @sporadicsmiles:)

Hardly a quick fire question. I would suggest that you spend some time exploring this Link where you will find a wealth of information provided by many of the people that you name checked and many others

Edited by Hovis Dexter
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6 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Hardly a quick fire question. I would suggest that you spend some time exploring this Link where you will find a wealth of information provided by many of the people that you name checked and many others

I read all of the articles there and integrated elements from them into my game but I still feel lacking in this department as I can’t still create the type of space I want in my saves, especially when the opposition camps in their own half. I want to create the space in front of the defensive line and in between the channels in my save now as @Cleon said in one of his articles. All striker roles look similar in the final third. That’s the reason why I asked such a question. 

Edited by frukox
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4 hours ago, frukox said:

I read all of the articles there and integrated elements from them into my game but I still feel lacking in this department as I can’t still create the type of space I want in my saves, especially when the opposition camps in their own half. I want to create the space in front of the defensive line and in between the channels in my save now as @Cleon said in one of his articles. All striker roles look similar in the final third. That’s the reason why I asked such a question. 

Perhaps the best thing you can do then is start a new thread, detail your tactical system saying what issues you are having and someone may be able to help.

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54 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Perhaps the best thing you can do then is start a new thread, detail your tactical system saying what issues you are having and someone may be able to help.

Thanks, @herne79. Is a combination of inverted winger on attack duty and a deeplying forward on attack duty an example of false nine-false ten relationship in fm19, then? 

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1 hour ago, frukox said:

Thanks, @herne79. Is a combination of inverted winger on attack duty and a deeplying forward on attack duty an example of false nine-false ten relationship in fm19, then? 

Sounds more like a normal 9 and a modern wide player to me. DLF-A will hold up the ball and make forward runs. IW-A isn't enough of a box player to be considered a 9/10 type at all imo.

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13 minutes ago, swansongs said:

Sounds more like a normal 9 and a modern wide player to me. DLF-A will hold up the ball and make forward runs. IW-A isn't enough of a box player to be considered a 9/10 type at all imo.

What about a wide-midfielder on attack duty? Can he be the support of a number nine who has the trait of comes deep with ball and which is also supported by a central midfielder on attack duty or do I have to move the winger to AM strata and make it IF-A to complete the relationship but I want him to track back too?

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They will support in the final third but if they're tracking back it can take some time to get up there, and if the striker drops deep you might end up penned in your own half with no out-ball.

Transition is the most important phase imo, and hardest to judge as it doesn't show in as many highlights.

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1 hour ago, swansongs said:

They will support in the final third but if they're tracking back it can take some time to get up there, and if the striker drops deep you might end up penned in your own half with no out-ball.

Transition is the most important phase imo, and hardest to judge as it doesn't show in as many highlights.

So I have to consider the tempo as far as I see. Anything higher than normal will increase the probability of losing the ball due to the lack of immediate support and so my best bet is to choose a true number nine without the trait of comes deep with ball in order not to get penned in my own half when the opposition pushes up,right? 

Edited by frukox
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You could leave one winger up. I would assume a striker who drops deep makes high tempo play tricky, yes, but it would be worth watching full games to see how things work in practice. I often find the game works counter-intuitively, and seeming nonsense works better than "common sense" approaches.

In games where you're the favourite teams might sit off you and your forward could find himself better positioned for launching counters by dropping deep. A higher tempo might then make playing out easier and more effective.

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47 minutes ago, swansongs said:

You could leave one winger up. I would assume a striker who drops deep makes high tempo play tricky, yes, but it would be worth watching full games to see how things work in practice. I often find the game works counter-intuitively, and seeming nonsense works better than "common sense" approaches.

In games where you're the favourite teams might sit off you and your forward could find himself better positioned for launching counters by dropping deep. A higher tempo might then make playing out easier and more effective.

What I see is the DLF-A sometimes drops deep to the sides leaving the opposition CDs unoccupied and my physical wingers(WA-IWA) sometimes have no options but to dribble through the opposition defence only to lose the ball due to the fact that no one is in the box when the tempo is standard. I need an Aubemeyang type of player I guess, an AF,PF or a poacher but I fear I ll lose the ball a lot when the opposition defence swarms my striker. In short, I am in a dilemma: Should I let my striker hold the ball up and wait for the wingers and my CM-A to catch up or let him be upfront as an AF, PF or P to keep them occupied thus leaving him isolated?

Edited by frukox
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On 15/11/2019 at 16:55, swansongs said:

You can do what van Gaal calls "provoking space". Lower your line of engagement to the halfway line (without dropping your defensive line) in order to tempt the opposition out. Instruct your players never to close down centre halves as you want them on the ball. Press intensely to win the ball back and manufacture counter-ish opportunities.

This doesn't tend to be that difficult in FM as "defensive" teams usually play cautious and responsible possession football and will happily play themselves out if given a little time and space to do so. 

I can see what this idea is trying to achieve, however I would be concerned still with giving time to players (Even CBs) to potentially knock a ball over the top and take advantage of my high line being coupled with a low LOE. 

I have started with Hoffenheim and I am seeing success in achieving meaningful vertical passing, as opposed to a hardcore counter-attack. I've implemented a high a press/high LOE in a 3-3-2-2 with a positive mentality and my 2 forwards as at TM and AF in Attack duty which sees diagonals to them with with the TM knocking it back down for oncoming midfielders or flick ons/through balls to the AF.

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15 minutes ago, ChrisCo said:

I can see what this idea is trying to achieve, however I would be concerned still with giving time to players (Even CBs) to potentially knock a ball over the top and take advantage of my high line being coupled with a low LOE. 

I have started with Hoffenheim and I am seeing success in achieving meaningful vertical passing, as opposed to a hardcore counter-attack. I've implemented a high a press/high LOE in a 3-3-2-2 with a positive mentality and my 2 forwards as at TM and AF in Attack duty which sees diagonals to them with with the TM knocking it back down for oncoming midfielders or flick ons/through balls to the AF.

Honestly not too worried about balls over the top this year.

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Player Pressing intensity vs Team Pressing Intesity.

Pressing intensity for a player in PIs means that if that player has it set to more urgent he will press the opposing player wherever he goes on the pitch leaving his position whereas team pressing means the ''ferocity'' of  the general team pressing when the opposition enters the line of engangment?

I mean, if the Team Pressing is maxed out but the FBs individual pressing is set to less urgent, the will not leave their positions but will press/mark hard in the area they are supposed to control?

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18 minutes ago, sgevolker said:

Hi,

are the green or the blue ones the keys attributes? 

2134178649_Bildschirmfoto2019-11-18um21_38_06.thumb.png.628fab3456c800c48317002b76b074b6.png

 

Green just denotes the number exceeds 15.

Key attributes and secondary attributes for a role highlight the name of the attribute - in this case a sort of medium blue (for example Dribbling, Finishing and First Touch) and grey (eg., Passing and Tackling).

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Hi Herne,

so the blue highlights ones are the Key Attributes for this role? This confuse me, because when I look into the central defender I thought the grey ons are more fitting to key attributes for this position?

606186673_Bildschirmfoto2019-11-18um22_39_35.thumb.png.bd46578d21af7b729abe8f1ca0c83df7.png

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I have used the DLF A as a lone striker plays as expected for me.  I mean most of my strikers are scoring goals. Really depends on how you’ve set them up. In my 4123 my DLF was the top scorer and I had to drop him to support cos I needed the goals to be distributed.

 

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11 hours ago, sgevolker said:

Hi Herne,

so the blue highlights ones are the Key Attributes for this role? This confuse me, because when I look into the central defender I thought the grey ons are more fitting to key attributes for this position?

606186673_Bildschirmfoto2019-11-18um22_39_35.thumb.png.bd46578d21af7b729abe8f1ca0c83df7.png

Yup Heading, Tackling, Marking etc (grey) are the highlighted key attributes for the central defender role :thup:.

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8 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I have used the DLF A as a lone striker plays as expected for me.  I mean most of my strikers are scoring goals. Really depends on how you’ve set them up. In my 4123 my DLF was the top scorer and I had to drop him to support cos I needed the goals to be distributed.

 

Food for thought I guess. I've never really been successful with a front three, for whatever reason. Might play about with it in FM20.

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My team is not a technically proficient as I would like, below league average for passing, first touch and composure etc. What are my options to play possession football while I try and re-shape the squad? Slow the tempo down to give players the time to pick the right pass? Set my most technically proficient midfielder as a playmaker and try to launch as many attacks as possible through him? Play hoofball to big Rudy Gestede?

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3 hours ago, JPKD said:

My team is not a technically proficient as I would like, below league average for passing, first touch and composure etc. What are my options to play possession football while I try and re-shape the squad? Slow the tempo down to give players the time to pick the right pass? Set my most technically proficient midfielder as a playmaker and try to launch as many attacks as possible through him? Play hoofball to big Rudy Gestede?

What I usually do when I join a new team is to make a tactic which is partly how I want to play but also bears in mind the quality of the players I have. I then also create my ideal tactic, which is very short passing - almost tiki taka style. I'll then let them train both, along with a counter attacking one, and then once the squad have a good familiarity level with my ideal tactic, I'll slowly introduce it into games. This might be in games I'm expected to win or even just friendlies to begin with.

Generally you probably want to limit their creative freedom a bit. You could set passing to short (not very short) or just keep it to normal. Slowing the tempo down is a good idea too. It may be best to not use many instructions to begin with, aside from some basic principles of how you want to play. And then slowly introduce more such as playing out from the back, very short passing and working the ball into the box.

Asking your centre-backs to play short, simple passes can also help. They'll not look for long balls but try to play into midfield more instead, which probably suits their technical attributes too.

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55 minutes ago, TheInvisibleMan said:

What I usually do when I join a new team is to make a tactic which is partly how I want to play but also bears in mind the quality of the players I have. I then also create my ideal tactic, which is very short passing - almost tiki taka style. I'll then let them train both, along with a counter attacking one, and then once the squad have a good familiarity level with my ideal tactic, I'll slowly introduce it into games. This might be in games I'm expected to win or even just friendlies to begin with.

Generally you probably want to limit their creative freedom a bit. You could set passing to short (not very short) or just keep it to normal. Slowing the tempo down is a good idea too. It may be best to not use many instructions to begin with, aside from some basic principles of how you want to play. And then slowly introduce more such as playing out from the back, very short passing and working the ball into the box.

Asking your centre-backs to play short, simple passes can also help. They'll not look for long balls but try to play into midfield more instead, which probably suits their technical attributes too.

Big Rudy is stripped an ready to come on. Shame the 'pump ball in to the box' instruction has died a death.

On a more serious note. Thanks for the tips. Plan to start generalist and introduce the more extreme elements of my doctrine over time.

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3 hours ago, beverage1982 said:

In terms of FM roles what would you see the classic 8 as being?

I'd probably say box to box, but it's quite rare that players have that as their natural position in FM. I think they could be a deep lying playmaker too. It probably depends on the role of the one alongside him.

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Player Pressing intensity vs Team Pressing Intesity.

Pressing intensity for a player in PIs means that if that player has it set to more urgent he will press the opposing player wherever he goes on the pitch leaving his position whereas team pressing means the ''ferocity''/intensity of  the general team pressing when the opposition enters the line of engangment?

I mean, if the Team Pressing is maxed out but the FBs individual pressing is set to less urgent, they will not leave their positions but will press/mark hard in the area they are supposed to control?

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4 hours ago, beverage1982 said:

Is there a problem with crossing in this version? For the life of me I can't seem to get players to cross the ball when they are in a position to do so. 

Not that I've noticed, and I'm playing almost exclusive Wing Play so far.

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4 hours ago, beverage1982 said:

Is there a problem with crossing in this version? For the life of me I can't seem to get players to cross the ball when they are in a position to do so. 

I'd say this one area that FM20 is absolutely miles ahead of FM19

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Not the preset, toned down a bit, a non-pressing/containment fluid or direct counter wing play hybrid is my standard base.  If it sounds complicated, it really isn't, Mentality is Positive as baseline, all sliders set to the middle as baseline, if goalie is low on vision and/or decisions I'll check distribute to flanks, else nothing.  I tend to overlap one flank, underlap the other, with a BBM on the overlap side, check the Counter box for transition and that's about it.  

Win most of my possession in the second quarter of the pitch (my box is 1st quarter) and lose most of my possessions in the 4th quarter of the pitch.  Usually only have 3-5 passes before a shot is taken, normally including a cross at some point in the transition.

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1 hour ago, FulhamFc14 said:

Any recommendations or advice for a pre season training schedule? My first FM in a few editions and training seems to have changed quite a bit! 

There are some specific pre-season training schedules built in:

image.thumb.png.bcfbe3e7824b4b688cf47a82fe88303d.png

If it is your first go at training I would recommend picking from the default schedules first, getting a feel for them and then start looking to create your own for your specific needs.

Best advice in pre-season is work the players hard. You'll get a few more injuries in the short term but in the long term the players' fitness will benefit massively.

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6 minutes ago, anderson36015 said:

Probably a stupid question but it's confused me for some reason!

For the trait 'Plays one-twos', does this mean the player passes then moves for the return? Or when they receive a pass they look to play the first passer back in? 

I've always thought it was the first one, makes sense 

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1 hour ago, koimes said:

When should I switch to defend wide or narrow? Should this be changed on a game by game basis?

It should be part of a general strategy based on the quality of your defence first. Are your fullbacks good defensively? Are your central defenders strong in the air? Do you want to intentionally draw the opposition down the flanks so that you can hit those same spaces on the counter? So your decision on what width to play really begins on how you assess your players. If they are really good in the air and have good positioning then playing narrow could be a good strategy. It really depends on your players. 

I normally don't change, my defensive width settings unless there are exceptional circumstances involved. If I chose to play wide defensive width, and i am up against a team that has good very good IW(A) or IF(A) I may go narrow to reduce the space.

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On 21/11/2019 at 18:47, Hunter T said:

Player Pressing intensity vs Team Pressing Intesity.

Pressing intensity for a player in PIs means that if that player has it set to more urgent he will press the opposing player wherever he goes on the pitch leaving his position whereas team pressing means the ''ferocity''/intensity of  the general team pressing when the opposition enters the line of engangment?

I mean, if the Team Pressing is maxed out but the FBs individual pressing is set to less urgent, they will not leave their positions but will press/mark hard in the area they are supposed to control?

sorry to keep asking this guys, but i really want to know cause i never understood how these two work

Edited by Hunter T
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Not sure if this is exactly a tactics question but in the match engine, what stat is given for a playing winning a penalty. In Fantasy Premier League for example, it is given as an assist. In FM it doesn't register as an assist but does it at least recognize the penalty winner's contribution?

 

Thanks!

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