David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,165 posts in this topic

But if we set steam as offline, we dont get affect by any kind of steam problem... right?

Personally, I've had very few problems with Steam but I have experienced a few odd things a couple of times. I've had Steam trying to connect to internet although I've chosen offline mode, thus not letting me load the game because it couldn't "log on" to my account or simply refusing me to go to offline mode as it couldn't "log on" to my account. It has also all of a sudden asked for my log in details and if you don't have internet connection you are going to have to wait untill you do...

But again, I'm not saying this happens all the time - I just hope the sales in Moldova & Aserbajdsjan really pick up this time around so someone can say "I told you so..."

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er... can someone who may sitting close to a 'law book' shed some light, if 'being forced ' to install steam infringes in some part of our consumer right....is there an 'Off-something' we can get the advice from.

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But Wakers, Steam is great, almost perfect even - so many satisfied users have repeatedly rammed this point home. How can you doubt the almighty Steam? Surely the issue must be your inability to follow instructions or maintain a computer appropriately.

I hope all those suggesting they will boycott do so. I hope it genuinely harms sales of the game and makes SI and Sega accept that choice matters on issues like this.

I don't care if this kind of system is touted as the future, or if download only sales are the next big thing. The fact is that they are not right for everyone, gaming as with almost every other aspect of life is not a one size fits all situation.

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er... can someone who may sitting close to a 'law book' shed some light, if 'being forced ' to install steam infringes in some part of our consumer right....is there an 'Off-something' we can get the advice from.

Since the version of FM which is released won't work without it, there is no argument against having it legally. From that viewpoint, Steam is about level with DirectX.

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I've fired through these 18 or 19 pages and I'm fairly taken aback by the vehemence and vitriol being thrown about on this subject!

I'm not fantastically familiar with Steam and I regard the news that I'll have to use it with a mild flicker of annoyance, akin to having to file through airport security despite having no criminal record and not the slightest inclination towards any kind of aerial indiscretion - that's not to say I won't ever use aeroplanes. That being said, I'm not here to throw in another analogy in the hope that this argument will disappear (as so far the lock, the secured shop door and other such metaphors haven't ended the disagreement).

So here is my point. I remember a thread whereby we discussed the absolutely unparalleled value for money for FM. We pay, what, £35-45 for a PS3 game which will last around 8-12 hours by average modern standards. There will be the occasional game that'll take a couple of weeks of our time - like Gran Turismo or something - before we get fully satisfied and fulfilled. Now Football Manager 2012 is available on amazon.co.uk for £25. I'm going to take a stab and estimate that I'll have a number of saves a year which accumulate to significantly more than 200 hours of playing time. Can anyone tell me that the margin between value for money and not value for money is so fine that the tipping point rests solely on having to download a programme in order to combat the criminal misuse of a game that most of us treasure to an almost biblical extent? I think that the abuse that the SI-folk are taking on this is unfair and I'd like to congratulate them on:

a) being in touch with us, even on a Sunday

b) making a great game greater with every passing year

Miles cites Direct X as the perfect example. I've been downloading that for years without questioning it. The difference is I don't have a DirectX Username and password. If you're concerned about details, use a screen-name and a dedicated hotmail account that you use for nothing else? I've seen anecdotes about difficulty running steam, all I can say is that in the past (when I had it on my compo for 2009) I didn't notice it running at all. The only thing that would send me back on a witch-hunt would be if we had the 2009 debacle where we bought a game and couldn't register it for days. Otherwise, I'm willing to give Steam a try. I know it's something of a pain, but I don't understand why it would be a dealbreaker to anyone who plays this game as much as I (and most regular posters on here) seem to.

Honestly, how many people here are up in arms just to 'stick it to the man' or because they view SEGA as a corporate enemy? I know and appreciate some people have got a really well developed and justified opinion on this - like x42bn6 who has intelligently made his points and is clearly quite learned on the subject - though I don't agree with the "piracy-isn't-theft" argument if you consider copyright infringement to be the theft of intellectual property. I'm going to throw my lot in with SI/Sega on this one. I think even if the countermeasures are ultimately futile, something should be seen to being done about piracy. The hardcore pirate will never be discouraged, but a casual one might be swayed if they are exposed to consequences. Think of music downloads - how many people downloaded music illegally 5 years ago and now use Itunes and pay legally? That's surely because the casual-free-downloader had no perception of consequences at first until it was really clamped down on, but determined people will always be able to get free music off the internet. Aren't there parallels here?

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er... can someone who may sitting close to a 'law book' shed some light, if 'being forced ' to install steam infringes in some part of our consumer right....is there an 'Off-something' we can get the advice from.

Seems like the only Off-something advice available is from SI, namely sod-Off and install Steam for a one time only activation but you have to keep it installed whether you like it or not, whether you hate Steam or not and sod you all if you won't do as we say.

Pathetic decision from a once customer friendly company.

My ten years of loyalty ends here.

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Those among us that are married (ie - me) fully appreciate Steam because we can continue buying games such as FM, and not have tell tale evidence such as video game boxes and discs littering the study!

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I won't be buying this game if Steam is the only way to activate and therefore play the game. Firstly, Steam is poor. Secondly, on principal being forced to use it offends me as I feel the choice should be mine. I don't care how many benefits Steam has, or how much steam sales patter I hear from SEGA staff, this is a terrible decision.

I would have never considered getting a pirated game, until now.

i agree with you except about the piarated version infact i have just cancelled my pre-order for the game unless sega give us another option of activating it so if i don't like it i can sell it on i Won't be buying it

sort it out sega

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jptykes just as you and wakers have the right to post negative comments about steam on these forums so do the people who post positive comments about steam. Don't get it twisted.

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I haven't posted since the first couple of pages but I still can't get my head around having to buy two copies for two people in my household! I understand that really myself playing via Steam and my brother using the disc isn't supposed to happen anyway as the game's license covers one person but its still ridiculous. I'd like to see an option similar to Norton Antivirus or something similar where you can use it on a certain amount of computers in your household? It won't happen though. End of the day we'll still end up buying two copies and will both be loving the game in a month or so and will probably forget about it but I still can't get my head around the customers being punished because of criminals.

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Can someone explain in short what's going on in this thread?

When buying FM2012, you'll be required to register online on Steam - an independent program which supports other games etc - before you can play the game. SEGA are using it to combat piracy. The natives are restless at the inconvenience, the lack of trust and the potential for problems. Cue a 1900 post argument. Somewhere in page 17-19 Miles Jacobson makes his points in response to the whole thing.

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Can someone explain in short what's going on in this thread?

FM will only be able to work if you install and run Steam, an application which must be running whenever you wish to play FM. Following that is almost 2000 posts of discussions as to why this decision has been taken.

For:

Aims to reduce piracy [disputed]

Is a simple and reliable application [disputed]

Will help with game updates [disputed]

Against:

Is an invasive piece of software [disputed]

Is a pointless complication [disputed]

Steam is unreliable, [disputed] with poor customer support for when things do go wrong [less disputed]

Relies on an internet connection to activate

Uses excessive computer power [disputed]

There's probably more that I've missed, but that's the general gist. General arguments as to how SI/Sega could make this decision, thus screwing over their loyal customers who don't wish to use Steam.

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jptykes just as you and wakers have the right to post negative comments about steam on these forums so do the people who post positive comments about steam. Don't get it twisted.

I'm not getting anything twisted, I have no issue with anyone liking (or disliking) Steam. My problem comes from the Steam 'evangelists' who continually shout down people who have had bad experiences with Steam and accuse them of lying. Why would I lie? I gain nothing from it and I'm sure Wakers would gain nothing from it either.

The fact is that Steam is far from infallible and to force it upon people in the manner SI/Sega have is poor imo.

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I've fired through these 18 or 19 pages and I'm fairly taken aback by the vehemence and vitriol being thrown about on this subject!

I'm not fantastically familiar with Steam and I regard the news that I'll have to use it with a mild flicker of annoyance, akin to having to file through airport security despite having no criminal record and not the slightest inclination towards any kind of aerial indiscretion - that's not to say I won't ever use aeroplanes. That being said, I'm not here to throw in another analogy in the hope that this argument will disappear (as so far the lock, the secured shop door and other such metaphors haven't ended the disagreement).

So here is my point. I remember a thread whereby we discussed the absolutely unparalleled value for money for FM. We pay, what, £35-45 for a PS3 game which will last around 8-12 hours by average modern standards. There will be the occasional game that'll take a couple of weeks of our time - like Gran Turismo or something - before we get fully satisfied and fulfilled. Now Football Manager 2012 is available on amazon.co.uk for £25. I'm going to take a stab and estimate that I'll have a number of saves a year which accumulate to significantly more than 200 hours of playing time. Can anyone tell me that the margin between value for money and not value for money is so fine that the tipping point rests solely on having to download a programme in order to combat the criminal misuse of a game that most of us treasure to an almost biblical extent? I think that the abuse that the SI-folk are taking on this is unfair and I'd like to congratulate them on:

a) being in touch with us, even on a Sunday

b) making a great game greater with every passing year

Miles cites Direct X as the perfect example. I've been downloading that for years without questioning it. The difference is I don't have a DirectX Username and password. If you're concerned about details, use a screen-name and a dedicated hotmail account that you use for nothing else? I've seen anecdotes about difficulty running steam, all I can say is that in the past (when I had it on my compo for 2009) I didn't notice it running at all. The only thing that would send me back on a witch-hunt would be if we had the 2009 debacle where we bought a game and couldn't register it for days. Otherwise, I'm willing to give Steam a try. I know it's something of a pain, but I don't understand why it would be a dealbreaker to anyone who plays this game as much as I (and most regular posters on here) seem to.

Honestly, how many people here are up in arms just to 'stick it to the man' or because they view SEGA as a corporate enemy? I know and appreciate some people have got a really well developed and justified opinion on this - like x42bn6 who has intelligently made his points and is clearly quite learned on the subject - though I don't agree with the "piracy-isn't-theft" argument if you consider copyright infringement to be the theft of intellectual property. I'm going to throw my lot in with SI/Sega on this one. I think even if the countermeasures are ultimately futile, something should be seen to being done about piracy. The hardcore pirate will never be discouraged, but a casual one might be swayed if they are exposed to consequences. Think of music downloads - how many people downloaded music illegally 5 years ago and now use Itunes and pay legally? That's surely because the casual-free-downloader had no perception of consequences at first until it was really clamped down on, but determined people will always be able to get free music off the internet. Aren't there parallels here?

excellent post :applause: not been enough thought out responses from all sides during the 19 pages

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i agree with you except about the piarated version infact i have just cancelled my pre-order for the game unless sega give us another option of activating it so if i don't like it i can sell it on i Won't be buying it

sort it out sega

I won't get pirated version, was said in jest really, just regarding the fact that the only way to avoid steam is to get a pirate version.

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The good thing that will come out of this is SI will have a better understanding of the software and spec of the computers people are using because by being linked with Steam every customers computer spec will be retrieved.

SI have said in the past that when it comes to updating the ME graphics and the AI inteligence they have to do it in line with the majorities computer spec. Thats why some people with high end spec sometimes feel disappointed that the improvements are not coming fast enough, and at the lower end on the budget side (I used to be one) would be pray that the next series of FM didn't require them to upgrade the graphics or the RAM, I think it was for FM09 I literally had to get a new computer so I made sure that it would last me a few long years of usage, but thats me.

If this has a double knock on effect in the casual pirates buying the game and people with low end machines upgrade, then improvements in FM will be more substancial. SI and SEGA what ever people believe are only trying to safe gaurd the game so it can make it better for it customers. Every company can make mistakes but we wont know until release if this is a good or bad decision. Remember when Coke brought out a clear version or when Heinz brought out green kethcup. Even Apple buggered up with the Iphone where they had to give everyone a free case so the phone could keep its signal.

So if the Steam servers end up not being able to cope with the extra numbers at the same time, which results in them being down all the time, don't you think SI will try and come up with a way to make us play the game. Or do you think they will just not care and say 'we thank you for you money'. SI cares about its customers and cares about the game, and SI have to find a balance between the 2 in giving us value for money by improving the game and trying protecting the game so it stays around for a long time.

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We can assure you that this measure has been taken to combat piracy. Like other solutions nothing is 100% effective, but this is the reason for required activation this year.

Yeah, combat piracy from ordinary people but build a monopoly for you, Steam, and others TOP companies, uh?

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I for one will not be buying FM12, there is three reasons for that.

Firstly because to only Steam approach, because due to piracy. To be fair whoever says that, is being unprofessional, because you don't see what others see, games being release days before the actual game being released despite whatever protections they release. And making users have little choice compared to the pirate versions, will not, in the next millenium, stop piracy. Nor do I know the solution of the problem, because i believe there isn't one. Hackers in general are very well determined and motivated people and Steam or no Stean, or DRM or no DRM protection will stop them.

Secondly, a lot of games today for PC or Mac use internet activation thing. Hell, I download many Mac games my brother's Mac using App Store, I don't complain, why? Because once I close down the App Store, I can directly play from MAC OSX. Which I believe for FM is very reliable alternative from Steam, for Mac users. Also once you have an update it signals you in App Store, you can choose either to update it or not. If Steam was like that for the PC, then I would have any trouble of using it.

Thirdly, and this is the most important reason, I find the game too boring, stressed, suffers from Information Overload (basically too much information to my liking and it makes me unable to make any quick or decisive decisions) and looks like actual job. There is no fun, no fantasy or just one more match feel to it. In FM11 I barely pass two matches in one session after giving up the game, because the game is too slow between matches. I don't know, no matter how much innovation or new features is putted in the game, none in my humble opinion surpass the greatness, fun, quickness and simplicity of FM07.

So for me, I believe going to the only Steam option because of piracy, is a wrong decision, because that won't make pirates to loose their sleep just because of that, but hey I understand your choice.

PS: There is only one and one reason, so many users choose for FM11 to registered through Steam: the no-cd on your dvd/cd-driver requirement.

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I've fired through these 18 or 19 pages and I'm fairly taken aback by the vehemence and vitriol being thrown about on this subject!

I'm not fantastically familiar with Steam and I regard the news that I'll have to use it with a mild flicker of annoyance, akin to having to file through airport security despite having no criminal record and not the slightest inclination towards any kind of aerial indiscretion - that's not to say I won't ever use aeroplanes. That being said, I'm not here to throw in another analogy in the hope that this argument will disappear (as so far the lock, the secured shop door and other such metaphors haven't ended the disagreement).

So here is my point. I remember a thread whereby we discussed the absolutely unparalleled value for money for FM. We pay, what, £35-45 for a PS3 game which will last around 8-12 hours by average modern standards. There will be the occasional game that'll take a couple of weeks of our time - like Gran Turismo or something - before we get fully satisfied and fulfilled. Now Football Manager 2012 is available on amazon.co.uk for £25. I'm going to take a stab and estimate that I'll have a number of saves a year which accumulate to significantly more than 200 hours of playing time. Can anyone tell me that the margin between value for money and not value for money is so fine that the tipping point rests solely on having to download a programme in order to combat the criminal misuse of a game that most of us treasure to an almost biblical extent? I think that the abuse that the SI-folk are taking on this is unfair and I'd like to congratulate them on:

a) being in touch with us, even on a Sunday

b) making a great game greater with every passing year

Miles cites Direct X as the perfect example. I've been downloading that for years without questioning it. The difference is I don't have a DirectX Username and password. If you're concerned about details, use a screen-name and a dedicated hotmail account that you use for nothing else? I've seen anecdotes about difficulty running steam, all I can say is that in the past (when I had it on my compo for 2009) I didn't notice it running at all. The only thing that would send me back on a witch-hunt would be if we had the 2009 debacle where we bought a game and couldn't register it for days. Otherwise, I'm willing to give Steam a try. I know it's something of a pain, but I don't understand why it would be a dealbreaker to anyone who plays this game as much as I (and most regular posters on here) seem to.

Honestly, how many people here are up in arms just to 'stick it to the man' or because they view SEGA as a corporate enemy? I know and appreciate some people have got a really well developed and justified opinion on this - like x42bn6 who has intelligently made his points and is clearly quite learned on the subject - though I don't agree with the "piracy-isn't-theft" argument if you consider copyright infringement to be the theft of intellectual property. I'm going to throw my lot in with SI/Sega on this one. I think even if the countermeasures are ultimately futile, something should be seen to being done about piracy. The hardcore pirate will never be discouraged, but a casual one might be swayed if they are exposed to consequences. Think of music downloads - how many people downloaded music illegally 5 years ago and now use Itunes and pay legally? That's surely because the casual-free-downloader had no perception of consequences at first until it was really clamped down on, but determined people will always be able to get free music off the internet. Aren't there parallels here?

:applause: Popider. Excellently thoughtful post.
excellent post :applause: not been enough thought out responses from all sides during the 19 pages

Popider, any thought given to this?

People have also asked "what about those who don't have an internet connection". When we had activation for FM2009 which was done both online and via telephone, less than 4% of people, globally, chose to use the telephone route. Some of these people had a net connection, but didn't want to authenticate that way (as per the huge threads at that time). So, again whilst it's disappointing that some people genuinely don't have a net connection and might miss out, this was taken into account with the overall decision, and there wasn't an option presented to me by SEGA this year that didn't involve purely online activation.

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Not sure why you quoted me?

I'd guess he's accusing you of sleeping with the enemy:)

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lol Kriss this thread is starting to quiet down now. I wonder how many of the 'I wont buy FM12' will be praising the blog today

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I'm sure some are just venting their spleen just as happened on the Civ forums when they did it, I was no different when told I must wear a seat belt (in spite of the fact I did anyway:D) there's a natural aversion to being told you must do something.

I hope they eventually overcome that and get the game they love and I also hope that Steam support them properly, because while it's been phenomally good for me I can imagine how enraging it would be if it wasn't so.

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I'd guess he's accusing you of sleeping with the enemy:)

Haha, I'm neither a lover or hater of Steam, i merely view it the same way i view any other good piece of software on my laptop. First used it for FM10 (because i was too hungover at uni to buy the game from the store :o ) and just kind of stuck with it for games. While i do have concern for those who may have genuine issues with internet connection and the like, think there has been a tremendous amount of fuss over relatively little. Though you make a good point with the seatbelt example, i remember muttering darkly for a while everytime i put one on in a coach...

Hopefully it will be a success come activation and everyone will soon be happily complaining about something or other in the game itself instead :D

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FM will only be able to work if you install and run Steam, an application which must be running whenever you wish to play FM. Following that is almost 2000 posts of discussions as to why this decision has been taken.

For:

Aims to reduce piracy [disputed]

Is a simple and reliable application [disputed]

Will help with game updates [disputed]

Against:

Is an invasive piece of software [disputed]

Is a pointless complication [disputed]

Steam is unreliable, [disputed] with poor customer support for when things do go wrong [less disputed]

Relies on an internet connection to activate

Uses excessive computer power [disputed]

There's probably more that I've missed, but that's the general gist. General arguments as to how SI/Sega could make this decision, thus screwing over their loyal customers who don't wish to use Steam.

Plus, it is possible that people in some countries, such as Germany, might no longer be able to play the game, as it cannot be marketed over here, so Steam might block German IP-Addresses. This, though, is being looked into.

lol Kriss this thread is starting to quiet down now. I wonder how many of the 'I wont buy FM12' will be praising the blog today

That's irrelevant in my opinion. The last blog on youth acadamies etc. really whet my appetite for the game, but this announcement brought the whole thing tumbling down again.

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edwin, I sympathise with the people that have technical issues such has no internet etc. A few remarks on here I feel were made in haste in frustration and they will most prob buy FM12. Has for you question about Germany it has been mentioned by Miles that SEGA are looking into it regarding countries that may have problems and they will get back to everyone when they have an answer whether it be good or bad, but hopefully good.

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Did those other people who were having problem playing games in Steam last night have any success?

I've just tried it again this morning (not that I'll have time now until the weekend again) and it still says all of my games are unavailable. I've just gone through all of the standard troubleshooting tips for each game and can't get any of them to work at this moment.

Not pleased.

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Did those other people who were having problem playing games in Steam last night have any success?

I've just tried it again this morning (not that I'll have time now until the weekend again) and it still says all of my games are unavailable. I've just gone through all of the standard troubleshooting tips for each game and can't get any of them to work at this moment.

Not pleased.

I don't know Wakers but if this happens with FM there will be rucksions (???? spelling) on here

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Those among us that are married (ie - me) fully appreciate Steam because we can continue buying games such as FM, and not have tell tale evidence such as video game boxes and discs littering the study!

As an alternative view, my partner hates Steam, it added about 60 seconds to every log on / start up routine before we unistalled it and all was better again. She uses Big Fish, Play First and other games download utilities (not exactly the same thing I know) but they dont cause any noticable issues, not like Steam.

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I'm not against the this move as I stopped using disks for anything ages ago.

But the reasoning you will combat piracy is absolutely ridiculous. Every single "steam protected" game has been cracked.

Whoever used pirated games before will go to the same place to get their new copy and wouldn't care less if you changed the protection. So effectively I don't see how somebody who pirated the games before won't do it now. To really change this you have two options:

1. Use a copy protection which hasn't been cracked. I know one and it would probably cause even bigger outrage.

2. Ask why people are pirating - they are either too lazy to get to the store (digital distribution) or can't afford the game (lower price).

Publishers really had a chance to kill two birds with one stone using digital distribution, but they opted for keeping there even higher prices than the brick and mortar stores, which is financially illogical.

You can reason that Steam is cool and bringing a lot of convenience, but combating piracy? Don't insult our intelligence.

The only thing you are achieving is annoying people who hate change and ultimately they may opt for the pirated version, which won't require any pesky activation. I'm saying you could have marketed this decision better.

Great Post :thup:

I'm glad someone has said it :applause:

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How have you been discarded? All we've said is that people have a choice to buy the game and run it through Steam or not buy it.

What are you offering for the punters who have not got the abilty to play the game with Stream????......Nothing.....you are telling your paying public to like it or lump it.

That is why I feel discarded after supporting the game for many years.

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I haven't posted since the first couple of pages but I still can't get my head around having to buy two copies for two people in my household! I understand that really myself playing via Steam and my brother using the disc isn't supposed to happen anyway as the game's license covers one person but its still ridiculous. I'd like to see an option similar to Norton Antivirus or something similar where you can use it on a certain amount of computers in your household? It won't happen though. End of the day we'll still end up buying two copies and will both be loving the game in a month or so and will probably forget about it but I still can't get my head around the customers being punished because of criminals.

If you and your brother use same Steam account you can play at same time - at least one of you starts Steam in offline mode. No cracks needed...

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What are you offering for the punters who have not got the abilty to play the game with Stream????

Anyone who has the ability to play FM12 has the ability to play the game with Steam, unless they don't have an Internet connection and can't find their way to somewhere or someone who does for a once-off activation process that takes less than thirty seconds.

If these people exist, I could probably count them on both my hands.

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Didn't one of the previous versions have a bug built in so when it was cracked it made you always lose penalty shoot outs?

The best way to put off pirates is do something similar. Make press conferences 10 times as long and mandatory.

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Saying you don't have internet connection on your pc is like saying you don't have a cell phone. Yeah, not everybody has it, but at this point of the history it's just because you either don't want it, or you just can't afford it.

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Didn't one of the previous versions have a bug built in so when it was cracked it made you always lose penalty shoot outs?

The best way to put off pirates is do something similar. Make press conferences 10 times as long and mandatory.

Even better a never win bug

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If I boot Steam on it's own it loads in 3 second

Yes that's great for Windows users. Unfortunately, Mac users won't be able to start Steam in 3 seconds.

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If you and your brother use same Steam account you can play at same time - at least one of you starts Steam in offline mode. No cracks needed...

I would be wary giving out advice like that on a public forum, your right, it can be done, but im not sure of the legalities of it all.

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I'm sure some are just venting their spleen just as happened on the Civ forums when they did it, I was no different when told I must wear a seat belt (in spite of the fact I did anyway:D) there's a natural aversion to being told you must do something.

I hope they eventually overcome that and get the game they love and I also hope that Steam support them properly, because while it's been phenomally good for me I can imagine how enraging it would be if it wasn't so.

Sadly misreading people, and assuming those who complain are just acting like children. People can do what they want, download steam if they wish, but SI have made a decision that does affect many people with an attitude of....oh well.

The board has probably quietened because nothing more can be said. I would say many will just not buy the game.

Just look at Milner's post above to show you how stupid the whole thing has become....yay SI.

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Sadly misreading people, and assuming those who complain are just acting like children. People can do what they want, download steam if they wish, but SI have made a decision that does affect many people with an attitude of....oh well.

The board has probably quietened because nothing more can be said. I would say many will just not buy the game.

Just look at Milner's post above to show you how stupid the whole thing has become....yay SI.

Theres nothing stupid about it, just like when you buy the boxed version you are only suppose to play it on one computer at a time, this is no different really, despite what people think, using the same license more than once at the same time is illegal, doesnt matter if its a steam down load or boxed version. My point was advising anyone on how to overcome these restrictions could get you into trouble on a public forum.

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Steam issues resolved now. Apparently, Steam was waiting for an update to Deus Ex that wasn't pushed out to me, so it stopped me from playing all the games in my library until it downloaded the patch.

Annoying.

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FM will only be able to work if you install and run Steam, an application which must be running whenever you wish to play FM. Following that is almost 2000 posts of discussions as to why this decision has been taken.

For:

Aims to reduce piracy [disputed]

Is a simple and reliable application [disputed]

Will help with game updates [disputed]

Against:

Is an invasive piece of software [disputed]

Is a pointless complication [disputed]

Steam is unreliable, [disputed] with poor customer support for when things do go wrong [less disputed]

Relies on an internet connection to activate

Uses excessive computer power [disputed]

There's probably more that I've missed, but that's the general gist. General arguments as to how SI/Sega could make this decision, thus screwing over their loyal customers who don't wish to use Steam.

That covers a fair chunk of the discussion but you've missed off:

Question marks about several parts of the Steam's Terms & Conditions of use.

Question marks about the extent of your consumer rights as a UK user.

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Steam issues resolved now. Apparently, Steam was waiting for an update to Deus Ex that wasn't pushed out to me, so it stopped me from playing all the games in my library until it downloaded the patch.

Annoying.

Glad to hear its sorted Wakers

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Has it been confirmed that Steam must be running after the initial activation? I know this wasn't the case in the past.

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Has it been confirmed that Steam must be running after the initial activation? I know this wasn't the case in the past.

Steam will have to be active any time you want to play FM, it always has to be on at the same time.

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Sadly misreading people, and assuming those who complain are just acting like children. People can do what they want, download steam if they wish, but SI have made a decision that does affect many people with an attitude of....oh well.

The board has probably quietened because nothing more can be said. I would say many will just not buy the game.

Just look at Milner's post above to show you how stupid the whole thing has become....yay SI.

This is nothing against you personaly its jsut your the most recent.

I am getting fed up at people saying it is Si's fault. If people actually read what Miles' said in some of his replies SEGA presented SI with options of how to activate FM and this was to most viable of those options. Unfourtunatly, we don't know what those options were, they were obviously more obtrusive to the customer has this was the least obtrusive.

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If its a Steam only game, Steam has to be running whenever you want to play the game.

If you close Steam while playing FM, it will warn you that doing so will also close FM.

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