Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[EdL]

1 hour ago, b2khn said:

Has the online multiplayer the same ME as the singleplayer?

Just asking.

yes

[StevehFC]

On 06/01/2024 at 23:27, LolloViola said:

does anyone still has issues with AI making more than half of the times less than 5 subs, sometimes just 2/3?

In my save this is particularly evident with U20/U18 teams, trainer basically uses always the same 11 players and uses max 2/3 sub per match (always in the last 5/10 minutes)

Happens in my save too. Still see good young players sitting rotten away in the youth teams of big clubs not getting game time and international selection still selecting old players. 

Edited January 8 by StevehFC

[Mst82]

I have no mods that can affect fixtures, no new leagues or anything like added on, yet January in season 3 looks like this - a single Premier League game  :

[NineCloudNine]

5 hours ago, StevehFC said:

Happens in my save too. Still see good young players sitting rotten away in the youth teams of big clubs not getting game time and international selection still selecting old players. 

To be fair this does happen in real life too, at least at clubs - just look at Arsenal for example. I think the AI has improved here this year.

Less so for internationals perhaps - in FM less caps are handed out to developing players. Jude Bellingham, Gavi and Eduardo Camavinga would not have been capped at 17 in FM, despite their precocious talent.

Edited January 8 by NineCloudNine

[KingCanary]

2 hours ago, Mst82 said:

I have no mods that can affect fixtures, no new leagues or anything like added on, yet January in season 3 looks like this - a single Premier League game  :

I just had a very weird stretch where I didn't have a game for almost a month. There was a normal international break but then seemingly no fixtures for another 2 weeks after that with no obvious reason why.

[The About Average Jake]

Player wages are just out of control. 

[Domoboy23]

Does anyone know what a mortgage loan might be taken out for under the debts and loan?

[Bahoi]

Ok, so the game has not improved overall since the initial release. It remains a high scoring mess.

But one feedback must be transmitted:

the amount of goals from 85th+ min. throw ins, either scored or conceded, is just disgusting. Letting a game end 0-0, 1-0, 1-1 or 0-1 is just impossible for this game's ME.

You all know it: throw in, a short pass, long cross, defender is trash, GOAL!

It was not only NOT addressed as it was noted in various patches, it's just embarrassing. 

[Domoboy23]

4 minutes ago, Bahoi said:

Ok, so the game has not improved overall since the initial release. It remains a high scoring mess.

But one feedback must be transmitted:

the amount of goals from 85th+ min. throw ins, either scored or conceded, is just disgusting. Letting a game end 0-0, 1-0, 1-1 or 0-1 is just impossible for this game's ME.

You all know it: throw in, a short pass, long cross, defender is trash, GOAL!

It was not only NOT addressed as it was noted in various patches, it's just embarrassing. 

I'm personally loving the ME, and I was a big critic of the high scorelines previously. Much improvement has been made and it is possible for the 0-0s and 1-0s.

I think there's a huge variety in the play, the goals, the through balls etc, wide and central play. 

[Jonthedon26]

35 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

I'm personally loving the ME, and I was a big critic of the high scorelines previously. Much improvement has been made and it is possible for the 0-0s and 1-0s.

I think there's a huge variety in the play, the goals, the through balls etc, wide and central play. 

I agree with this. I went through a rough spell towards the end of the season which saw me drop out of the playoff places, so I switched up my tactic slightly and won 3 of the next 4 games 1-0 and drew the other 0-0 to squeeze into the final spot on the last day of the season. I actually very rarely see high scoring games.

[KingCanary]

Minor question- does anyone else get frustrated by the amount of agents/players who won't negotiate when it comes to contracts?

I don't mean they won't enter talks- just they'll come in with a number and will not budge one inch off it. I just looked to extend a couple of players with two years to run on their deals- they both wanted uplifts on their salary, fair enough but both would just not budge at all on weekly wage. One came in at £110k p.w- I said £86k (a rise from his current £68K), he said £110k. I said £92k he said £110k. I said £100k he said...£110k. Second player said £88k. I said £68k (a rise from his current £60k) he said...£88k. Again and again. 

Not saying this doesn't and shouldn't happen but I've seen it a lot this year and you'd think players sometimes might be happy with an extra two years on their deals and an extra £10-20k p/w on their wages.

[spkno]

On 07/01/2024 at 14:14, whatsupdoc said:

They look at all the reports, log them, investigate them, if they're verified they'll work on fixing them. 

Sometimes they'll acknowledge what work is in progress like they did before earlier patch(es), but generally they don't have time for any back and forth in bug posts. 

Bug reports are crucial even if they're not replied to. 

I seriously doubt it. Quite demotivating when they don't even bother to reply at all. They should at least answer the posts, even a canned reply saying that they are busy is better than totally radio silence. Mark the post "to be investigated" / "Incomplete report"/ "Missing steps to reproduce" / Anything. Just acknowledge that  the post has been read.  With so many strange bugs, you'd think they would appreciate taking their time to help them get a product with less bugs.   

[The About Average Jake]

9 hours ago, Mst82 said:

I have no mods that can affect fixtures, no new leagues or anything like added on, yet January in season 3 looks like this - a single Premier League game  :

Wait until you're 6 or 7 seasons in. You'll be playing your FA cup 3rd round game on new year's eve.

[The About Average Jake]

32 minutes ago, KingCanary said:

Minor question- does anyone else get frustrated by the amount of agents/players who won't negotiate when it comes to contracts?

I don't mean they won't enter talks- just they'll come in with a number and will not budge one inch off it. I just looked to extend a couple of players with two years to run on their deals- they both wanted uplifts on their salary, fair enough but both would just not budge at all on weekly wage. One came in at £110k p.w- I said £86k (a rise from his current £68K), he said £110k. I said £92k he said £110k. I said £100k he said...£110k. Second player said £88k. I said £68k (a rise from his current £60k) he said...£88k. Again and again. 

Not saying this doesn't and shouldn't happen but I've seen it a lot this year and you'd think players sometimes might be happy with an extra two years on their deals and an extra £10-20k p/w on their wages.

It gets worse the longer into a save you go. 

[Sunstrikuuu]

There are a lot of kind of strange design decisions.  For example:

Why does not being part of the media coverage also mean making an affirmative announcement that I will not make sales or signings?  Why are these two things linked at all, and if they aren't actually, why is it phrased this way in the inbox?

[Bartowski0412]

Why does it become impossible to buy anyone after three seasons? They talked about "smarter transfers", and I can't afford even medium players because Monaco will ask 67M for Zakaria (who started only 3 matches in the entire season), Mallorca will ask 46M for 30 years old Maffeo, or Chelsea will ask 94M for Angelo (who hasn't played a single minute of football from 2024 to 2027 and is in their reserve team). These are examples but every single player from the 5 top flights costs at least 40M or higher, it doesn't matter if he's a bench warmer for a newly promoted team or a young player who didn't literally play football for three years. If this is smarter, I don't know which kind of transfers they've been watching in the last years. 

Edited January 8 by christianboccone

[zeza]

Recruitment focuses are still glitched, almost a month that it's glitched and no fix yet.
 

Sent a report and had a lot of responses but feels bad that I can't play the game properly..

[Arnar]

7 hours ago, KingCanary said:

Minor question- does anyone else get frustrated by the amount of agents/players who won't negotiate when it comes to contracts?

I don't mean they won't enter talks- just they'll come in with a number and will not budge one inch off it. I just looked to extend a couple of players with two years to run on their deals- they both wanted uplifts on their salary, fair enough but both would just not budge at all on weekly wage. One came in at £110k p.w- I said £86k (a rise from his current £68K), he said £110k. I said £92k he said £110k. I said £100k he said...£110k. Second player said £88k. I said £68k (a rise from his current £60k) he said...£88k. Again and again. 

Not saying this doesn't and shouldn't happen but I've seen it a lot this year and you'd think players sometimes might be happy with an extra two years on their deals and an extra £10-20k p/w on their wages.

It seems to happen to me when the player isnt very interested in joining the club.

[Arnar]

4 hours ago, zeza said:

Recruitment focuses are still glitched, almost a month that it's glitched and no fix yet.
 

Sent a report and had a lot of responses but feels bad that I can't play the game properly..

Yeah i dont understand why this hasnt been addresed. 

Ive tried to create many assingments with 1 silver stars and 2,5 stars potential but its like the scouts dont even go to matches, like if you create assingment for japan and the scout is consulting the staff for weeks to find suitable players and he doesnt find any player. Then i go to the player search and find multible players in the japanese league that are 3+ stars potential.

Seems to me that when scouting assingments are created it adds players and it will not discover new players.

 

[El Payaso]

As I have been able to clock more hours with the game recently, I have to say that I've started to like the game way more. When you get used to the interface and match day experience, it doesn't bother you that much at all that some of the things that you saw in previous editions are gone. 

The ME is a bit of a mix for me. Many really good things, especially if you look at the bigger picture and compare it to something that used to be. The variations in terms of buildups and goals is probably better than it has ever been and we have come far from the horror shows where deep lying forwards had 80+ pass attempts and 5+ key passes per game and where just one side appeared to the pitch summing up 30+ shots against zero. 

In general, I would say, that you nowadays have to be much more aware of things and not able to go to games knowing that you are going to win with minimum effort. At least I get the feeling that my team is able to both win or lose against any team and you never have any certainty about the outcome, no matter how heavy favorite or underdog you are. 

What I also used to hate in some of the previous versions was the fact how bad the bigger ai controlled teams were. I think in FM 2018 and 19 I basically had to save before every Real Madrid and Barcelona games and then reload if they lost against the worst teams of the league just to keep the league somewhat realistic. Nowadays it seems that the AI vs AI outcomes are way more realistic and you don't really have to worry about how for example Manchester City or Liverpool performs kinder AI Pep and Klopp. 

[KingCanary]

17 hours ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

There are a lot of kind of strange design decisions.  For example:

Why does not being part of the media coverage also mean making an affirmative announcement that I will not make sales or signings?  Why are these two things linked at all, and if they aren't actually, why is it phrased this way in the inbox?

Yes! It's very minor but it annoys me, especially if I have a deal in process that will likely complete that day as it makes me a liar! It is a bit frustrating that you have to agree to take press questions in order to get agents offers on deadline day too.

[LolloViola]

Il 8/1/2024 in 03:04 , StevehFC ha scritto:

Happens in my save too. Still see good young players sitting rotten away in the youth teams of big clubs not getting game time and international selection still selecting old players. 

Opened a thread in bug tracker if you're interested  

[chris72]

This has happend since the update I'm halfway through the 2nd season and most of my best players have only scored 3 goals each. I then look at the other teams man utd, chelsea and liverpool and most of their best players have only scored 3 or 4 goals. it is only haaland who has scored 15 goals and son 10

 

okay haaland is a goal machine but most other players including saka odeegard should atleast have more goals same for other players.

it just seems like people were complaining of there being too many high scoring games so theyve done something now the players are not scoring that many goals which is very frustrating. Also too many injuries

Edited January 9 by chris72

[Domoboy23]

2 hours ago, LolloViola said:

Opened a thread in bug tracker if you're interested  

Seeing tons of youth being used by the AI and rotated in and out nicely FWIW and I'm only in 2027. Really nice to see. Especially when you have the likes of Joel Ward etc still going (at Ipswich on mine) and offering an exp head for them too. Great mix across a variety of teams for me.

[wazzaflow10]

23 hours ago, Domoboy23 said:

I'm personally loving the ME, and I was a big critic of the high scorelines previously. Much improvement has been made and it is possible for the 0-0s and 1-0s.

I think there's a huge variety in the play, the goals, the through balls etc, wide and central play. 

I do wish players would players would be a bit more direct at times. Feels like there's multiple occasions when a pacy striker would have a nice run in behind a high line but the player on the ball chooses to spray it wide or play a much safer pass even when you're asking to play more direct/take more risks. I think its much harder for smaller pacy strikers to get good ratings in a game (at least in the EPL) because they'll never win headers. Probably says more about the weighting of stats for the rating than the engine itself. For me it seems like the best way to play in the EPL is to get someone like DCL and bang cross after cross in. He's an absolute monster in the one save I have. Even got them into the Champions League Quarter final one year and they're kicking around CL spots consistently with Rooney as manager!

[TOMetz]

How do I get my team to be as OP as the AI is after you've just scored a goal?

But now to cut the cynical message: I'm actually enjoying this years FM thoroughly again.

Edited January 9 by TOMetz

[Gh0zt]

One thing I've noticed about player contract negotiations is that almost every single player wants increased wage after 5/10 games and yearly wage rises. Most of the time you can remove them but it's odd that even 15 year olds in your youth intake demand 20K p/w after 5 games. I mean, it doesn't even make sense since those players won't be seeing the first team for years and their initial contract will have run out by the time they're first team ready.

[mishketov86@gmail.com]

This year , the game is absolutely trash high scoring mess.... Goalkeepers are useless, cannot catch anything... AI attackers not miss a single opportunity.... from other side your players miss everything and AI goalkeepers are best every game ... Players crying for big wages after a half season after sign them... Every year is the same ... Copy paste game !

[Aoyao]

On 02/01/2024 at 19:53, NineCloudNine said:

Many games committed to an annual update cycle fall into the trap of thinking they must have a new feature for every release.

I played an MMORPG for many years which did this. The result was a mess of different game systems, many of them never developed past their release because developers were already working on the next thing.

In FM the social feed, press conferences, player interactions and touchline shouts are all basically untouched since their introduction. It’s a shame because they could be great, but the effort involved to keep them all fresh, while also updating the ME and core elements like transfers and tactics, is far too much for a developer team committed to an annual release cycle.

Like many people I would gladly pay an annual subscription for a game with a steady data & update cycle, rather than an annual box office release which the marketing team insist needs a new thing added every time.

The answer is DLC

[rp1966]

44 minutes ago, Aoyao said:

The answer is DLC

Only if the question is "how do we decimate the FM playerbase?" - DLC is no more an answer than subscription. 

EDIT - Just to expand on this - for DLCs you have the question of what would FM players actually buy as DLC , and secondly how would they feel if FM25 came out as a skeleton game with lots of functionality stripped out to be sold back as DLC - because that's how the DLC model works.  As for subscription - people payting a monthly or annual fee are going expect something for that money - that means regular releases of sufficient scope and quality for them to feel a subscription is worthwhile (that's ignoring people's strong aversion to software subscription models in general).

SI's problem is, and has been for a very long time, quality control.  No change in business model will overcome that - it needs an honest analysis of working methods and why so many bugs are coming through every release and, more worryingly, getting carried over from release to release. Hopefully this is something that has been addressed in the FM25 build methodology, because if not I'm expecting a very poor launch - and being someone who was very hyped for Cities:Skylines II, only to find it's a very buggy, half-baked game - I really don't want that for FM25 as well (though I'm not optimistic - even MVP seems to be an aspirational level for new games releases these days).

As far as bug fixes are concerned FM24 is probably dead now - they'll probably fix something that crashes the game and pick off some low-hanging fruit, but SI will now be focussed on FM25.  FM24 is something they'll want to move on from with minimal further resource commitment.

Edited January 10 by rp1966

[KingCanary]

Just had an excellent example of where press conferences aren't where they need to be. It isn't that they are broken, just that they lack any context.

I just lost the Carabao Cup final to Arsenal. I was 2-0 up in the 86th minute then conceded twice in 3 minutes before surrendering a 3rd goal in extra time. A pretty staggering collapse for a team in a final. Post match no questions made reference to the nature of the defeat or the fact I was winning 2-0 with 5 minutes left, instead they were all generic 'how did you think you performed, it must be tough to lose a final' type questions.

This is an area where a bit of work could turn press conferences into something that adds to the game world- I'm pissed off about the nature of the loss and if I'd got questions about that I'd have probably given some interesting quotes, instead its just 'pick the generic slightly positive answer' again.

[whatsupdoc]

57 minutes ago, KingCanary said:

Just had an excellent example of where press conferences aren't where they need to be. It isn't that they are broken, just that they lack any context.

I just lost the Carabao Cup final to Arsenal. I was 2-0 up in the 86th minute then conceded twice in 3 minutes before surrendering a 3rd goal in extra time. A pretty staggering collapse for a team in a final. Post match no questions made reference to the nature of the defeat or the fact I was winning 2-0 with 5 minutes left, instead they were all generic 'how did you think you performed, it must be tough to lose a final' type questions.

This is an area where a bit of work could turn press conferences into something that adds to the game world- I'm pissed off about the nature of the loss and if I'd got questions about that I'd have probably given some interesting quotes, instead its just 'pick the generic slightly positive answer' again.

 

Press conferences shouldn't be a focus IMO. At the moment media interaction is irrelevant, and I'd say 99% of players are happy for it to stay that way. 

Every effort should go towards improving the match engine.

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, rp1966 said:

As far as bug fixes are concerned FM24 is probably dead now - they'll probably fix something that crashes the game and pick off some low-hanging fruit, but SI will now be focussed on FM25.  FM24 is something they'll want to move on from with minimal further resource commitment.

They will (and must) get it to a better point than where it's at before fully moving on to 25. 

[Iakovenko]

I find the difference in wage demands between what they want to sign for me vs where they end up going, especially those out of contract from Saudi teams, to be a bit extreme.

Firmino wanted 325k a week to sign for a prem side but ended up going back to Brazil for 13k a week.

Bissouma also wanted 325k a week but ended up at Porto on 35k a week.

I've previously won the league and champs league regular so should be a reasonably attractive proposition but if players want 10 to 25 times the wage they end up accepting then they are clearly not "interested/very interested" in joining me as the player search filter would suggest

[forameuss]

38 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

 

Press conferences shouldn't be a focus IMO. At the moment media interaction is irrelevant, and I'd say 99% of players are happy for it to stay that way. 

Every effort should go towards improving the match engine.

Amazing thing about statistics etc etc

You can't possibly say that 99% of people are happy for one of the most glaring issues with the game to remain that way.  Especially when your solution is to put everything into the one part of the game that is pretty polished, at least in a relative sense.  The entire game suffers from a complete lack of context that affects things across the board and that is an absolute must to improve.  Media interaction comes into this.  Even if the match engine could have that extra few percent added to it to make it absolutely perfect (which is impossible anyway), it's going to ring pretty hollow if once you leave the match, the game remains as utterly sterile as it is now.  

[Sundaytwist]

49 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

 

Press conferences shouldn't be a focus IMO. At the moment media interaction is irrelevant, and I'd say 99% of players are happy for it to stay that way. 

Every effort should go towards improving the match engine.

There's so much more to the game than the match engine, the press conferences and media interaction is something that interests me because I'm trying to play a football manager simulation and press conferences have barely been touched since their introduction. They're so boring & repetitive. What angers me the most though is that scouting doesn't work and I can't comprehend how SI haven't fixed this by now. I've given up playing and as per usual, the game is only worth buying when the final patch is released.

[whatsupdoc]

24 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Amazing thing about statistics etc etc

You can't possibly say that 99% of people are happy for one of the most glaring issues with the game to remain that way.  Especially when your solution is to put everything into the one part of the game that is pretty polished, at least in a relative sense.  The entire game suffers from a complete lack of context that affects things across the board and that is an absolute must to improve.  Media interaction comes into this.  Even if the match engine could have that extra few percent added to it to make it absolutely perfect (which is impossible anyway), it's going to ring pretty hollow if once you leave the match, the game remains as utterly sterile as it is now.  

You're in a very small minority there. 

Most people immediately set all media interaction to their assistant as it's not only tedious but also doesn't impact performance outcomes in any serious way. 

You can artificially inflate the importance of media interaction to try to make it more relevant but what justification there is for this I don't know. 

The match engine is definitely not polished. There are several glaring issues at the moment and the game has suffered from being a back and forth between average builds of more or less the same thing for many years now. 

[Rodrigogc]

I think everybody is right. They should put focus on the Match Engine, but also the press conferences, the interactions, the scouting... and that's the problem. The game has become overly complicated for them to adress all the issues. It all comes down to what someone said earlier, SI piled up new features every version and the game has become a complete mess, where you have many features that are underdeveloped and not enough time to adress all of them. 

[cwilcox]

Nice to see we got a guard of honour after winning the Prem by the team we played next  

[forameuss]

26 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

You're in a very small minority there. 

Most people immediately set all media interaction to their assistant as it's not only tedious but also doesn't impact performance outcomes in any serious way. 

You can artificially inflate the importance of media interaction to try to make it more relevant but what justification there is for this I don't know. 

The match engine is definitely not polished. There are several glaring issues at the moment and the game has suffered from being a back and forth between average builds of more or less the same thing for many years now. 

Compared to a lot of areas of the game - hence why I mentioned it being "relative" - the match engine IS polished.  That's the point.

And the reason I'd imagine most people do skip the interactions are literally because of their lack of quality.  I want them to be far better, for reasons already stated.  

[Rodrigogc]

I skip interactions and press conferences because they are boring and lack context and quality. I'd also like them to be more dynamic, but that is lacking almost all the features of the game. You see, people skip interactions and press conferences because they have little to no effect in the game and are boring, the shouts during the matches are boring since they always produce the same results, you just need to figure out which ones to press, team talks basically the same...

 

Everything off-match in the game is very shallow and have little impact in the results. The balance between what affects performance among these features is bizarre, because football has so many variables that impact the match, even footballers personal problems. But in FM, you automate the team talks, press conferences, some player interactions and all is fine, but as soon as one player complains about something and you don't give him what he wants, all the other players turn against you and suddenly you start losing. This lack of balance is what frustrates me the most.

 

Guardiola, taking over barcelona, decided to get rid of Ibrahimovic, who hates  him to this day, but  everything went fine and Barcelona became one of the best teams in history back then. In FM, if you take over a team and decide to get rid of a player of the caliber of Ibra, you are doomed. Everybody will turn up against you and no matter what you do, you will lose.

[whatsupdoc]

22 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Compared to a lot of areas of the game - hence why I mentioned it being "relative" - the match engine IS polished.  That's the point.

And the reason I'd imagine most people do skip the interactions are literally because of their lack of quality.  I want them to be far better, for reasons already stated.  

Diminishing returns. 

You can have the most vibrant and realistic media interactions in the world, after the initial gloss wears off it remains not that important busy work which most people will skip. 

Like I said unless you want to artificially inflate the value of it so it impacts matches more, then people will continue to ignore it. 

[g1nh0]

Indeed, the ME has to be considered the highest priority aspect as it will be most used and produces the outcome of results.

Personally I want overpowered role combinations where attributes don't seem to matter at all fixed (especially x2 DM-S in tactics), so that they actually do and result in more balanced roles / tactics, and more pragmatic tactics to be made more effective and viable for use. At the moment this is breaking the game and it's a bit silly having players not suited to these roles or of poor quality but still performing miracles simply because of the tactics and the role imbalances.

I also think the difficulty level really does need to be tweaked to be considerably more difficult, especially as this next patch is going to be the very final one I guess. The game will be a very boring one if it remains simple.

Throw-ins also are still overpowered - it would be nice for the defending team to launch a few counter attack opportunities from these highlights rather than conceding too many goals from them.

[XaW]

On 08/01/2024 at 18:28, spkno said:

I seriously doubt it. Quite demotivating when they don't even bother to reply at all. They should at least answer the posts, even a canned reply saying that they are busy is better than totally radio silence. Mark the post "to be investigated" / "Incomplete report"/ "Missing steps to reproduce" / Anything. Just acknowledge that  the post has been read.  With so many strange bugs, you'd think they would appreciate taking their time to help them get a product with less bugs.   

SI do something like this, where the report is tagged as "under review" when SI are looking into it, and other statuses for waiting for examples or feedback from the reporter. They don't give info on when the issue is selected to be fixed though, which I would have liked to see personally.

Like here:

The first one needs more info from the reporter and the 2nd one is a known issue they already know of. As I said, I would have liked to see this linked to their internal tool whatever they use where the could also set public statuses for when it's expected to be fixed, even if it was after the release. Knowing how... unwise it is to give hard dates or time frames for bugs to end users in my day job, I can understand why they won't give those details out beforehand, but I would have liked to see the issues get a "fixed in 24.2" or something like that after 24.2 is released. This is an example, of course. Just would add to the transparency of things.

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, whatsupdoc said:

Diminishing returns. 

You can have the most vibrant and realistic media interactions in the world, after the initial gloss wears off it remains not that important busy work which most people will skip. 

Like I said unless you want to artificially inflate the value of it so it impacts matches more, then people will continue to ignore it. 

So maybe, you know, do that?  You're essentially arguing against making a part of the game - which is a big part of real-life football - considerably better on this imagined stance that people will ignore it, when the main reason people do ignore it is because it's currently so bad.  There's so much potential to actually make the module matter and improve the game as a whole as a result.  And you want to focus all efforts on a match engine that is, again, far more mature than a lot of aspects of the game, despite its problems.  Oh great, we've just had an amazing, epic match brought to life by the match engine performing a few percent better.  Then all that changes is a few numbers under the hood.  Not the media picking up on the specific talking points that came up from the match, not any butterfly effects that come from that, no players reacting beyond the frustrating rails they operate on now...just mindlessly clicking on in a sterile world until another match.  Revolutionary.

[Rodrigogc]

17 minutos atrás, forameuss disse:

So maybe, you know, do that?  You're essentially arguing against making a part of the game - which is a big part of real-life football - considerably better on this imagined stance that people will ignore it, when the main reason people do ignore it is because it's currently so bad.  There's so much potential to actually make the module matter and improve the game as a whole as a result.  And you want to focus all efforts on a match engine that is, again, far more mature than a lot of aspects of the game, despite its problems.  Oh great, we've just had an amazing, epic match brought to life by the match engine performing a few percent better.  Then all that changes is a few numbers under the hood.  Not the media picking up on the specific talking points that came up from the match, not any butterfly effects that come from that, no players reacting beyond the frustrating rails they operate on now...just mindlessly clicking on in a sterile world until another match.  Revolutionary.

I guess what he is saying is that making interactions and press conferences so realistic would actually take too much time for those to play, not worth the effort. Everybody wants FM to be more realistic, but we can't forget it is just a game, and most people won't have time to spend on every interaction because it would be too time-consuming, and the show must go on, you know. 

As much as I like to criticize SI, it must be hard to develop a game where in one hand you want to make it realistic and stick to what a simulator is about, but in the other hand realize it is a game and people have to play at a decent pace to carry the save on, so you can't make everything realistic because it would be too time consuming. 

Edited January 10 by Rodrigogc

[forameuss]

14 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

I guess what he is saying is that making interactions and press conferences so realistic would actually take too much time for those to play, not worth the effort. Everybody wants FM to be more realistic, but we can't forget it is just a game, and most people won't have time to spend on every interaction because it would be too time-consuming, and the show must go on, you know. 

 

But I'm not convinced it needs to be.  Having it be truly realistic also wouldn't work because it would be largely tedious, but there's definitely a lot of work that could be done to make what's there actually matter.  That's the key.  

Let's take the example that started all this from @KingCanary.  You've had a match that would have caused a stir in the media in real life.  Late fight-back from the opposition, and a complete collapse.  You go into the post-match media scrum, and if this stuff is actually going to matter, you at least need to be asked the right questions.  The media should be their own entity with their own interests, should always be angling for a story.  So in this scenario, let's imagine a few "reasons" why that collapse might have happened.

Maybe at 2-0 there was a particularly contentious refereeing decision.  You could say nothing, or even absolve the officials, and see knock-ons from that.  Do your players support that decision?  Does that board?  What about the fans?  Or you could go scorched earth.  You can kind of do that, there's code in there to do it, but it's half-baked (like a lot of stuff).  You could get your touchline ban, but do your fans then rise in support as a result?  Do officials see your team differently as a result?  Do any future potential employers?  

Another scenario, you made a sub at 2-0 thinking the game is over, and that's the turning point.  You should be asked about that.  You can take all blame, protect the players, and probably get a buff from their support, but the fans may think differently and believe you're useless.  Or you could go gung-ho and say it's that player's fault, and risk a backlash because of it.

Another, maybe you just want to watch the world burn and start a feud with the opposing manager by being a big bitter tosser.  Again, there's code in there that kind of deals with that, but it's been weakened, and is, again, half-baked.  If I want to try and gain an edge by completely rattling another manager, and risk it backfiring, I should be able to.

And that's probably not even scratching the surface of the potential such a change could have across the game.  Even in the match engine, as having more dynamism and control about what gets plugged into it with regards to morale, fans, officials etc is going to make the whole game better.  Ignoring all that and just polishing up the animations is just going to further show how far behind everything has slipped.

Now none of this is easy, in fact it's probably incredibly difficult, but neither is the match engine.  The game is crying out for there to be an evolutionary step somewhere, and it's maddening that people are happy to wave off one of the biggest candidates for one.

Edited January 10 by forameuss

[Sunstrikuuu]

On 08/01/2024 at 19:08, Arnar said:

It seems to happen to me when the player isnt very interested in joining the club.

It happens to me pretty frequently when dealing with renewals.

 

3 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

 

Press conferences shouldn't be a focus IMO. At the moment media interaction is irrelevant, and I'd say 99% of players are happy for it to stay that way. 

Every effort should go towards improving the match engine.

The match engine definitely needs improvement, but as it's been for a while now the major focus needs to be on all the other stuff.  Scouting, player development and regression models, transfers and negotiations, and especially player interaction and promises ought to be the primary focus.

 

59 minutes ago, XaW said:

Knowing how... unwise it is to give hard dates or time frames for bugs to end users in my day job, I can understand why they won't give those details out beforehand, but I would have liked to see the issues get a "fixed in 24.2" or something like that after 24.2 is released. This is an example, of course. Just would add to the transparency of things.

I'd also love that, and I'd love a public list of everything that's been tagged as 'known issue'.  And even just hitting the thumbs-up reaction to show that a bug report has been read would be a nice change.  It is very demoralizing putting an hour or so into a bug report and having it go without acknowledgement for weeks or more,

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

So maybe, you know, do that?  You're essentially arguing against making a part of the game - which is a big part of real-life football - considerably better on this imagined stance that people will ignore it, when the main reason people do ignore it is because it's currently so bad.  There's so much potential to actually make the module matter and improve the game as a whole as a result.  And you want to focus all efforts on a match engine that is, again, far more mature than a lot of aspects of the game, despite its problems.  Oh great, we've just had an amazing, epic match brought to life by the match engine performing a few percent better.  Then all that changes is a few numbers under the hood.  Not the media picking up on the specific talking points that came up from the match, not any butterfly effects that come from that, no players reacting beyond the frustrating rails they operate on now...just mindlessly clicking on in a sterile world until another match.  Revolutionary.

I'm saying that it's actually not a greatly more important part of football than is currently reflected in the game. It has an appropriate impact on match play (minimal) and a possibly slightly understated impact on player happiness. If you wanted to increase its importance thats probably where you'd start. 

FM24 is a good study of what happens though, when a part of the game (player interaction) becomes too fiddly and takes on a scope larger than it should.

If you could introduce AI into the conversation and make it genuinely realistic, then perhaps it'd add something to the game but for me... huge meh while we have an ME that has mainly oscillated 10 degrees this way and that for years, seesawing back and forth between the same problems, rather than genuinely improving. 

Edited January 10 by whatsupdoc

[Rodrigogc]

23 minutos atrás, forameuss disse:

But I'm not convinced it needs to be.  Having it be truly realistic also wouldn't work because it would be largely tedious, but there's definitely a lot of work that could be done to make what's there actually matter.  That's the key.  

Let's take the example that started all this from @KingCanary.  You've had a match that would have caused a stir in the media in real life.  Late fight-back from the opposition, and a complete collapse.  You go into the post-match media scrum, and if this stuff is actually going to matter, you at least need to be asked the right questions.  The media should be their own entity with their own interests, should always be angling for a story.  So in this scenario, let's imagine a few "reasons" why that collapse might have happened.

Maybe at 2-0 there was a particularly contentious refereeing decision.  You could say nothing, or even absolve the officials, and see knock-ons from that.  Do your players support that decision?  Does that board?  What about the fans?  Or you could go scorched earth.  You can kind of do that, there's code in there to do it, but it's half-baked (like a lot of stuff).  You could get your touchline ban, but do your fans then rise in support as a result?  Do officials see your team differently as a result?  Do any future potential employers?  

Another scenario, you made a sub at 2-0 thinking the game is over, and that's the turning point.  You should be asked about that.  You can take all blame, protect the players, and probably get a buff from their support, but the fans may think differently and believe you're useless.  Or you could go gung-ho and say it's that player's fault, and risk a backlash because of it.

Another, maybe you just want to watch the world burn and start a feud with the opposing manager by being a big bitter tosser.  Again, there's code in there that kind of deals with that, but it's been weakened, and is, again, half-baked.  If I want to try and gain an edge by completely rattling another manager, and risk it backfiring, I should be able to.

And that's probably not even scratching the surface of the potential such a change could have across the game.  Even in the match engine, as having more dynamism and control about what gets plugged into it with regards to morale, fans, officials etc is going to make the whole game better.  Ignoring all that and just polishing up the animations is just going to further show how far behind everything has slipped.

Now none of this is easy, in fact it's probably incredibly difficult, but neither is the match engine.  The game is crying out for there to be an evolutionary step somewhere, and it's maddening that people are happy to wave off one of the biggest candidates for one.

I got it, in fact it would be way better this way, since different options would produce different reactions. The point with FM now is that you click the same options and get the same reactions all the time, making it shallow and uninteresting. If they could find a balance between making interactions more dynamic, more life-like without it being too time consuming, it'd be great.

The suggestion about firing up manager feuds is great, especially when you're managing a small/weaker team.