Wiping the Slate Clean: A Logical Guide to Building a Tactic from Scratch

[smeagoltonez]

25 minutes ago, dcayton9 said:

The tactic looks really good, I think it should work well on the break and I like the defensive winger on the right providing pressure and getting crosses in. I think in your specific case a BBM would accomplish much of the same thing, solely because the PPMs that he has are so attacking already and all an attack duty would do is raise his individual mentality meaning he'd try more risky passes, take long shots, and other similar behaviors. The player is not great at these or at decision making, so I'm inclined to believe a BBM might work best. If the attack feels blunted after a while, maybe try out the TF as an attack duty or even switch the RM to winger attack then the RB to defend and the other CM to a support role but I think overall it's really well thought out.

Thanks very much!

Just to check, I keep the CM as a CM(d)? Or could I consider a CM(S) or maybe a DLP(s) so that he holds position? That would only leave my two centre-backs with a (d) duty though...

[nugatti]

On 25/06/2022 at 17:48, smeagoltonez said:

could I consider a CM(S) or maybe a DLP(s) so that he holds position? That would only leave my two centre-backs with a (d) duty though

I'd keep it a def duty as you don't have a compressed team (DL vs LOE). But it's a tweak to experiment with should you need it 

 

[smeagoltonez]

8 minutes ago, nugatti said:

I'd keep it a def duty as you don't have a compressed team (DL vs LOE). But it's a tweak to experiment with should you need it 

 

Thank you!

[Aoyao]

How does the couter attack instruction perfom?

What's diference between conterattack and Higher Tempo?

[nugatti]

3 hours ago, Aoyao said:

How does the couter attack instruction perfom?

What's diference between conterattack and Higher Tempo?

It makes your team go on counter more often right after winning the ball back. If it's not on, general attacking team instructions kick in.

On higher tempo, the ball is moved fast in all phases of play. It demands higher values in mental and technical and stamina/quickness skills (at least towards the end of matches ).

[Aoyao]

一小时前, nugatti说:

It makes your team go on counter more often right after winning the ball back. If it's not on, general attacking team instructions kick in.

On higher tempo, the ball is moved fast in all phases of play. It demands higher values in mental and technical and stamina/quickness skills (at least towards the end of matches ).

Thank you!

[bosque]

hace 8 horas, Aoyao dijo:

Thank you!

To add a little bit: Counter increases mentality of the whole team during the counter attack phase. So if you want to see it in a simpler way, counter ask your team to be more vertical (passing or dribbling or both) and to make decisions quick (higher tempo).

Higher tempo only asks your players to make decisions quicker. Either passing the ball laterally or more vertically.

[Aoyao]

9 小时前, bosque说:

To add a little bit: Counter increases mentality of the whole team during the counter attack phase. So if you want to see it in a simpler way, counter ask your team to be more vertical (passing or dribbling or both) and to make decisions quick (higher tempo).

Higher tempo only asks your players to make decisions quicker. Either passing the ball laterally or more vertically.

thanks for tips.

To add a little bit: How do they work, when i set lowest tempo shorterpassing and counterattack.

[bosque]

hace 4 horas, Aoyao dijo:

thanks for tips.

To add a little bit: How do they work, when i set lowest tempo shorterpassing and counterattack.

Well, both instructions go against eachother and is highly adviceable to keep it simple with instructions.

But I think those instructions work like this:

I may wrong but as far as I know, when the counter is on (remember counter-attack is a phase during a match) every other instruction is ignored and mentality from all players are maxed out.

So, if the counter-attack is triggered, your lowest tempo and shorter passing will be ignored in favour of that phase.

If counter-attack is not triggered then your team will play shorter and with lower tempo.

[smeagoltonez]

7 minutes ago, bosque said:

I may wrong but as far as I know, when the counter is on (remember counter-attack is a phase during a match) every other instruction is ignored and mentality from all players are maxed out.

 

So does that mean even your holding DM would suddenly stop holding & go all out on the attack?

[nugatti]

1 hour ago, smeagoltonez said:

So does that mean even your holding DM would suddenly stop holding & go all out on the attack?

He would most likely pass the ball quickly on to a better placed player as he should consider other more advanced players are more suited to execute the attack. If he considers himself to be the best placed player, he'll go on the counter himself. Decisions are key here.

Your short passing, slow tempo team will still go on the counter attack even without the instruction applied, but (much) less often. It's all considerations of risk/reward from situaton to situation.

[bosque]

hace 9 horas, smeagoltonez dijo:

So does that mean even your holding DM would suddenly stop holding & go all out on the attack?

That happens a lot to me even without having Counter on. It infurates me. In another thread we talked with@Johnny Aceabout this. He told me all holding players in DM or CM positions will go forward if there is space available.

And, if you click on Counter you will see all players (except CBs) with an arrow going up.

[smeagoltonez]

50 minutes ago, bosque said:

That happens a lot to me even without having Counter on. It infurates me. In another thread we talked with@Johnny Aceabout this. He told me all holding players in DM or CM positions will go forward if there is space available.

And, if you click on Counter you will see all players (except CBs) with an arrow going up.

That's scary! Maybe in that case it would be good to train very defensive traits to supplement the 'hold position' instruction?

[bosque]

hace 3 minutos, smeagoltonez dijo:

That's scary! Maybe in that case it would be good to train very defensive traits to supplement the 'hold position' instruction?

I'm not sure if that will work, I think is just something with the ME. But you can try watching matches if happens to you too.

Edited June 29, 2022 by bosque

[Aoyao]

Maybe the counterattack only a instruction that work in off ball move.

The ball move  in these instructions "tempo passing direct".

[Raymond85]

I'm back with another example of how this thread has become one of my favourites ever.

I'm currently un 2027 with Udinese and 4 years into a tycoon takeover, so we are expected to be one of the best teams of the league: spoiler, we are, but not world class, and have a mix of wonderkid youngsters and a couple of extablished superstars (and an average goalkeeper, homegrown for the club, still trying to find Carnesecchi's replacement after Bayern came in with 100 mln), and also some great players that work well with how i want to play.

I have been applying @dcayton9's method on this save and it has been working wonders. I just wanted to share the tactic i created and the success i am having, so i can give more credit to the man.

I have won 5 straight Serie A titles and i managed to get the Champions League too last season, with also quite a few other cup titles here and there.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Raymond85
Correct image

[Ampalaea4]

This needs to be a sticky!!

[JoOSTAR]

On 03/07/2022 at 20:43, Raymond85 said:

I'm back with another example of how this thread has become one of my favourites ever.

I'm currently un 2027 with Udinese and 4 years into a tycoon takeover, so we are expected to be one of the best teams of the league: spoiler, we are, but not world class, and have a mix of wonderkid youngsters and a couple of extablished superstars (and an average goalkeeper, homegrown for the club, still trying to find Carnesecchi's replacement after Bayern came in with 100 mln), and also some great players that work well with how i want to play.

I have been applying @dcayton9's method on this save and it has been working wonders. I just wanted to share the tactic i created and the success i am having, so i can give more credit to the man.

I have won 5 straight Serie A titles and i managed to get the Champions League too last season, with also quite a few other cup titles here and there.

 

Do you use any specific Player Instructions?

[Hilly1979]

It’s a shame this excellent thread has been derailed by posts of what particular in game  instructions do.

 

[Raymond85]

6 ore fa, JoOSTAR ha scritto:

Do you use any specific Player Instructions?

Yes, i do. Personalized player by player on their strenghts and weeknesses.

Of course if you were to copy this tactic results should be very different from mine, since it's taylored on my team, as per this topic's philosophy

[JoOSTAR]

10 hours ago, Raymond85 said:

Yes, i do. Personalized player by player on their strenghts and weeknesses.

Of course if you were to copy this tactic results should be very different from mine, since it's taylored on my team, as per this topic's philosophy

Yeah that's actually why I'm asking. I thought it would be a great addition if you could explain which instructions you added with an explanation why you did it for the specific player, so people (and myself of course) could learn a little more about it.

[Raymond85]

7 ore fa, JoOSTAR ha scritto:

Yeah that's actually why I'm asking. I thought it would be a great addition if you could explain which instructions you added with an explanation why you did it for the specific player, so people (and myself of course) could learn a little more about it.

Well, one by one i looked at my players strenghts. Great passers  in midfield will look to take more risky passes, dribblers will dribble more, crossers will cross more often and players with great aggression, workrate and resistance will press more (and when weaknesses the other way round). It's just a matter of simple and logical tweaks to enhance a tactic

[Delial]

Just fell in love with the city of Freiburg, Germany. When I'll be back from vacations, I'll start a new career with Freiburg FC and try to follow your guide to get the best from a team that I don't know very well (at all I can tell).

Great work however, this thread needs to be upper in the forum.

[teej9]

I love the idea of this thread, but it just does not work. At the end of the day, I always have better results playing a high press attacking tactic. I score more, concede less and win more. No matter what team, no matter what the squad strength. I like fiddling like this, but never got good results, it was consistently boring awful football. I do love the attacking role breakdown, that is awesome. Thanks for the detailed write up!

[ta11zx]

24 minutes ago, teej9 said:

I love the idea of this thread, but it just does not work. At the end of the day, I always have better results playing a high press attacking tactic. I score more, concede less and win more. No matter what team, no matter what the squad strength. I like fiddling like this, but never got good results, it was consistently boring awful football. I do love the attacking role breakdown, that is awesome. Thanks for the detailed write up!

Agreed.  I had the exact same experience.  Fm is geared towards gegenpress type success only.  There's nonsuch thing as a good defensive tactic like deigo simione type philosophy.  You can play that way but it won't be successfully.

[Delial]

Il y a 4 heures, teej9 a dit :

I love the idea of this thread, but it just does not work. At the end of the day, I always have better results playing a high press attacking tactic. I score more, concede less and win more. No matter what team, no matter what the squad strength. I like fiddling like this, but never got good results, it was consistently boring awful football. I do love the attacking role breakdown, that is awesome. Thanks for the detailed write up!

I understand because I already had the same frustration seeing one of my friend building a tactic that cannot be real (a midfield trio Mez(a)/B2B/Mez(a)) and winning CL on Season 1 while I was trying to build a team that could be consistent IRL and not getting any big results.

BUT!  I feel that the challenge in FM could be to build a tactic that could be used IRL and to get results with it. It's not easy, and we can be quickly tempted to switch to the good old gegenpressing pre-set. But for instance, I never used the "more urgent" or "much more urgent" pressing TI for any of my team. Split block can work for high and middle block and it's biggest pleasure to see something work without playing the same tactic as most of the people.

There's a theory that says that in order to be good at something, you must spend 10 000 hours studying and practicing it... You know what comes next!

Edited August 16, 2022 by Delial

[dcayton9]

I think I might've acknowledged at the start but I definitely acknowledge now that this isn't going to always provide the best possible results. I think that setting your team to positive or attack, gegenpressing, and flooding the box with 4-5 attack roles all looking to penetrate will always be the best way to win unless there are drastic changes to the match engine. The point of this guide is for the roleplaying or realistic approach to the game, of analyzing your squad and building a tactic to match that, which as a tactics aficionado myself, is the main reason I play.

@ta11zx I also don't think that tactics that don't take the overpowered approach are unsuccessful, we just are conditioned to think that a successful tactic means extreme over-performance, like finishing in the champions league places with our freshly promoted side, rather than consistently above expectation while the level of our squad grows as well. I do admit you and @teej9 are right about the limitations this approach has, but as @Delial said, sometimes the challenge is building a well thought through system that would work in real life, as well as the game

[Tsuru]

This is a fantastic and very nice guide. Unfortunately it didn´t work for me - on a simple test against a weaker team we were losing without a single shot on goal. Also I was completely lost with the mentality change things and adding/removing TIs. There was a point in which I simply didn´t know what to do anymore.

Maybe it was my role/duty choice, maybe my attribute analysis was not good or maybe I lack patience to play this way and I need something more simple, quicker and straightforward, for example, setting up 3 different tactics (attack, counter and park the bus) and simple change among them when necessary.

But thank you anyway for trying to create something different, flexible and that does not say "do this, don´t do that".

[teej9]

23 hours ago, dcayton9 said:

I think I might've acknowledged at the start but I definitely acknowledge now that this isn't going to always provide the best possible results. I think that setting your team to positive or attack, gegenpressing, and flooding the box with 4-5 attack roles all looking to penetrate will always be the best way to win unless there are drastic changes to the match engine. The point of this guide is for the roleplaying or realistic approach to the game, of analyzing your squad and building a tactic to match that, which as a tactics aficionado myself, is the main reason I play.

@ta11zx I also don't think that tactics that don't take the overpowered approach are unsuccessful, we just are conditioned to think that a successful tactic means extreme over-performance, like finishing in the champions league places with our freshly promoted side, rather than consistently above expectation while the level of our squad grows as well. I do admit you and @teej9 are right about the limitations this approach has, but as @Delial said, sometimes the challenge is building a well thought through system that would work in real life, as well as the game

It is for sure a me problem! I think I just don't have the patience or time to play like this. Want to move through a bit too much. Thanks!

[sovy666]

Great thread @dcayton9 ! I have created two tactics following your mostly logical directions and they are working well. So maximum support and thanks and I agree with whoever said that this thread should be pinned together with the best ones at the beginning of the forum.

Edited August 18, 2022 by sovy666

[SPE3D]

Potentially silly question but if you are saying we should have one base tactic and stick with it does that mean you don't train three tactics? And if you do could you explain your thinking behind how you come up with your 3 tactics?

[seb1083]

Hi everyone.

Just dropping by to say a big thank you to dcayton9. I began using these principles during the FM23 beta, and for the first time since FM16 or 17 I've been able to create my own tactics... and still be successfull. I created a 4231 and a 442 during the beta, playing in the VLN, and I have now started my proper save (a youth academy challenge) with Tubize in the belgian 3rd division. Playing in a low block 433, we managed to get promoted (media prediction 12th).

A big thank you for giving me back the joy of playing this game and being able to create my own sensible tactics.

[couragewolf101]

Fo

Followed your principles as I designed this tactic to get the best out of my attacking trio.

Really loving how this plays out as the ball often gets directly given to Prieto who uses his 19 acceleration and 18 pace to just get into 1-on-1s.

6 in a row with this (inc. 1 champions league final)

[Panosgeo79]

This topic is one of the best in the history of sigames.

many thnks for your time to sit and write such interesting things.

I would love to see a book release from you with even more analysis

 

[HanziZoloman]

This is awesome: the best I have ever read and I read a lot! Thank you @dcayton9 for the good advice and exceptional explanation. I have learnt so much and will post my tactic soon. I had a tough run of form and experimenting with everything but now I am doing sth intent. That’s the difference 

Would you check on my tactic please, dear people, because it's not as satisfying as last year (turnover in players). The results are ok but the game shows too many opponent players cutting inside and causing havoc at my defense. I have to note that my defense is very young. my offense is really striking many good players. Sometimes it's difficult to regain possession.

My best attackers are Chartier (AF: 202cm 18 Jum and lighting fast) or Venturelli (small and OTB 16 Fin 16 FT 16 Bal 17 WR 17 who is also one of my best creators)

My best Creatrs: Dietz (Vis 14 Pas 15 Dec 15 Com 13) Frische (Vis 14 Pas 13 Dec 11 Com 12) and Juric (Vis 14 Pas 12 Dec 14 Com 12) Anticipation is avarage with all players except the attackers.

My defense isn't the best in the league but young and improving quickly, my FB are weak not improving ...

Plan is IFs  and IWa stay wider giving width, my APa and Mezs also stay wider to occupy the channels and my AF got the centre.

Before that I played a 421 but not very convincing that's why I switched back to 433 from last year:

Before the 4231:

Thank you very much

PS: how about placing Venturelli as an IFa and Juric on IWs with Chartier up front (he’s like a poor man’s Haaland), both sitting narrow. Two WBs to give width and Dietz as DLPs behind (he did his best games playing as DLP. Some other creative scorer as MCa and behind that DMd/ BWMd on the #6 (?).

Edith: The last one works best: I have 3ATB with my HB dropping and two WB. At last we fight for promotion after 6 years in 2nd division this being the 7th. It’s risky because my defenders aren’t the best.

Edited November 27, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[HanziZoloman]

I am missing the inspiring conversation in this topic like it has been on the pages before

[Panosgeo79]

3 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

I am missing the inspiring conversation in this topic like it has been on the pages before

Dcayton9 is missing

 that's why😀😀

 

[frukox]

On 25.11.2022 at 00:12, HanziZoloman said:

This is awesome: the best I have ever read and I read a lot! Thank you @dcayton9 for the good advice and exceptional explanation. I have learnt so much and will post my tactic soon. I had a tough run of form and experimenting with everything but now I am doing sth intent. That’s the difference 

Would you check on my tactic please, dear people, because it's not as satisfying as last year (turnover in players). The results are ok but the game shows too many opponent players cutting inside and causing havoc at my defense. I have to note that my defense is very young. my offense is really striking many good players. Sometimes it's difficult to regain possession.

My best attackers are Chartier (AF: 202cm 18 Jum and lighting fast) or Venturelli (small and OTB 16 Fin 16 FT 16 Bal 17 WR 17 who is also one of my best creators)

My best Creatrs: Dietz (Vis 14 Pas 15 Dec 15 Com 13) Frische (Vis 14 Pas 13 Dec 11 Com 12) and Juric (Vis 14 Pas 12 Dec 14 Com 12) Anticipation is avarage with all players except the attackers.

My defense isn't the best in the league but young and improving quickly, my FB are weak not improving ...

Plan is IFs  and IWa stay wider giving width, my APa and Mezs also stay wider to occupy the channels and my AF got the centre.

Before that I played a 421 but not very convincing that's why I switched back to 433 from last year:

Before the 4231:

Thank you very much

PS: how about placing Venturelli as an IFa and Juric on IWs with Chartier up front (he’s like a poor man’s Haaland), both sitting narrow. Two WBs to give width and Dietz as DLPs behind (he did his best games playing as DLP. Some other creative scorer as MCa and behind that DMd/ BWMd on the #6 (?).

Edith: The last one works best: I have 3ATB with my HB dropping and two WB. At last we fight for promotion after 6 years in 2nd division this being the 7th. It’s risky because my defenders aren’t the best.

What kind of problems do you see in transitions, i.e how and when they attack space, what do you think they should do depending on where they are on the pitch, where they often lose the ball, how is the spacing between players, etc. ? 

[HanziZoloman]

vor einer Stunde schrieb frukox:

What kind of problems do you see in transitions, i.e how and when they attack space, what do you think they should do depending on where they are on the pitch, where they often lose the ball, how is the spacing between players, etc. ? 

Thank you @frukox 

offensive transition: My best striker Venturelli (16 OTB/ 16 FIN) playing as an IFa is not regularly in good scoring positions, usually not integrated into the gameplay.

Most play is via right side with IWs (stay wider) and my most creative player MEZat (but he had his best games as DLP) 

Usually my CFa is isolated up front. When playing with an AF I have at least some good through balls. 
My offense is average in pace and acc, midfield also but my team has exceptional work rate, teamwork and technical abilities (in offense !)

Defence Transition: usually my team works the ball safe from defense into midfield but runs out of options. Then a bad pass brings the opponents into play, one player cutting through my Defense like a hot knife through butter, cross and goal at the far post or  shots from corner of the box.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[frukox]

2 saat önce, HanziZoloman said:

Thank you @frukox 

offensive transition: My best striker Venturelli (16 OTB/ 16 FIN) playing as an IFa is not regularly in good scoring positions, usually not integrated into the gameplay.

Most play is via right side with IWs (stay wider) and my most creative player MEZat (but he had his best games as DLP) 

Usually my CFa is isolated up front. When playing with an AF I have at least some good through balls. 
My offense is average in pace and acc, midfield also but my team has exceptional work rate, teamwork and technical abilities (in offense !)

Defence Transition: usually my team works the ball safe from defense into midfield but runs out of options. Then a bad pass brings the opponents into play, one player cutting through my Defense like a hot knife through butter, cross and goal at the far post or  shots from corner of the box.

 

In the first tactic AFA or CFA is probably marked easily because he lacks advanced support from the centre at the early stages of attacking transitions. You need to either let him drop off from the front line, which requires another attacker from the other flank or change the type of support around him.

Secondly, your IWs will attempt to overload central areas by cutting inside so you need someone keeping the width there in one way or another.

Thirdly, Underlap Right will reduce IWA's mentality by a notch but you still need advanced support for your striker and you also increase the risk getting caught on that flank due to the wrong type of support or when the ball is on the left flank I imagine your IWBD stays there alone away from the attacking line, giving  a wrong type of support again. You instruct your team to increase spacing between them and focus on the flanks when passing the ball when there is no one holding the width reliably there. 

Finally, after increasing the defensive line you need to make the area behind your defenders unplayable. I'd consider ticking Offside Trap to solve this problem. However, just a heads-up: You need focused, intelligent and relatively fast defenders who can at least play a safe pass to the flanks when camping deep in the opposition half.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by frukox

[HanziZoloman]

@frukox wow thank you for your advice. It all makes sense to me. 
I have so good strikers one like Haaland (Chartier) big, strong and quick with good tech, the other (Venturelli) intelligent with strong finish, great creativity but not as quick and a third (Lasme) who can play every role up front on support strong, big reliable. My midfield are excellent passers with brilliant first touch but rather slow. Left wingback is a strong defender, my right one is the best crosser. My CBs are average in quickness, young and unexperienced but solid with the ball and good passing. 

Edith: maybe I should try to play positional play with through balls on Chartier and overlaps opposite to Venturelli which give him enough space and time and doesn’t involve one on one’s. 

Now I want to see either my Haaland or my creative finisher as my first goalscorer, how to bring them into play? They both have only a strong right foot, I could play them as IFa or AFa or CFa but the creative lacks speed for AF / IF: means playing my Haaland as the first scorer (AF) and Venturelli as a mix (creativ and scorer IWa / AMa / DLFa?). My most creative player are Dietz, Frische and Sadlok all are excellent reader of the game with good passing. 
A higher DL does not make any sense as my defenders are slow and the weakest point in my team. My goalie makes up for this with great One on One’s and excellent Reflexes. Playing on the counter is not a good option as my team lacks speed. The best option seams possession and positional play. On the left I can choose between a fast and strong defender with solid crossing or a an exceptional teamplayer (20) work rate (17) who is almost a windelnd developing quickly but lacking speed and crossing for now. On the right I have quick players who are not able to give a big impact on offence or a slow but strong crosser (14) who is almost CD (jumping reach 17). An. Suggestion how to setup?
 

Edited November 29, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[frukox]

35 dakika önce, HanziZoloman said:

@frukox wow thank you for your advice. It all makes sense to me. 
I have so good strikers one like Haaland (Chartier) big, strong and quick with good tech, the other (Venturelli) intelligent with strong finish, great creativity but not as quick and a third (Lasme) who can play every role up front on support strong, big reliable. My midfield are excellent passers with brilliant first touch but rather slow. Left wingback is a strong defender, my right one is the best crosser. My CBs are average in quickness, young and unexperienced but solid with the ball and good passing. 
Now I want to see either my Haaland or my creative finisher as my first goalscorer, how to bring them into play? They both have only a strong right foot, I could play them as IFa or AFa or CFa but the creative lacks speed for AF / IF: means playing my Haaland as the first scorer (AF) and Venturelli as a mix (creativ and scorer IWa / AMa / DLFa?). My most creative player are Dietz, Frische and Sadlok all are excellent reader of the game with good passing. 
A higher DL does not make any sense as my defenders are slow and the weakest point in my team. My goalie makes up for this with great One on One’s and excellent Reflexes. Playing on the counter is not a good option as my team lacks speed. The best option seams possession and positional play. On the left I can choose between a fast and strong defender with solid crossing or a an exceptional teamplayer (20) work rate (17) who is almost a windelnd developing quickly but lacking speed and crossing for now. On the right I have quick players who are not able to give a big impact on offence or a slow but strong crosser (14) who is almost CD (jumping reach 17). An. Suggestion how to setup?
 

I don't want to sound mean but you need to decide on which system to play. It's your save after all. Try to answer these questions when distributing roles and duties:

1) Who is going to be focal point of attacks?

2) Which players are supposed to support the main goalscorer? 

3) How are they going to support him? (ie. type of supply)

4) Who is planned to protect the central channel from a deadly counter-attack?

5) Which two players are tasked with maintaining the width to keep stretching opposition defense horizontally(helps open up channels between defenders)?

6) Are they up to the task you give to them( ie. attributes, traits, etc.)?

In football, space is everything. How you are going to defend, control or attack the space is totally up to you. 

 

Let me give you an examplary 4-3-3 system with explanations in which AF is the focal point of attacks and a CMA both a scorer and creator:

This system is a wing-based cross-heavy patient-in-possession and aggressive mid-block. Please think about it. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by frukox

[HanziZoloman]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb frukox:

I don't want to sound mean but you need to decide on which system to play. It's your save after all.

You don’t sound mean at all, you sound helpful. I‘ll try to answer the questions. Thank you for your setup, I don’t have good crossers except my two wingbacks. I need to play possession and positional play with through balls on either my AF or my IF. 
My AF is capable to be the main goalscorer and I have good creators in IW right and left, central midfield plus decent crosses from Wingbacks.

my idea had been to play IW on either side and have overlapping wingbacks. Central midfield one support one attack and a HB to help build up play and defend.

Maybe with two IW a 4231 is better, with an AMa in the middle and a DLP and MCd for cover plus WB (?)

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[frukox]

8 dakika önce, HanziZoloman said:

You don’t sound mean at all, you sound helpful. I‘ll try to answer the questions. Thank you for your setup, I don’t have good crossers except my two wingbacks. I need to play possession and positional play with through balls on either my AF or my IF. 
My AF is capable to be the main goalscorer and I have good creators in IW right and left, central midfield plus decent crosses from Wingbacks.

my idea had been to play IW on either side and have overlapping wingbacks. Central midfield one support one attack and a HB to help build up play and defend.

Maybe with two IW a 4231 is better, with an AMa in the middle and a DLP and MCd for cover plus WB (?)

 

 

Not bad. Now that the AF will be your goalscorer let's think about how you are going to supply balls to him and which players are to get forward to offer advanced support to him. Ideally, these players all should do this in a different way. For example, our AF also drifts wide besides staying central as per his instructions so you need someone else from the flanks and/or from the centre to keep defenders pondering about whom to mark which will create space for someone else. What roles/duties can offer this kind of support not to isolate him up front?

[HanziZoloman]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb frukox:

Now that the AF will be your goalscorer let's think about how you are going to supply balls to him and which players are to get forward to offer advanced support to him.

Thank you @frukox 

My best crosser are my wingbacks, my best passers are my IW and MC. 
The AF will have two defenders in the center. if I go for IWa on the left cutting aggressively into the halfspace the other defender is busy too. Adding a WBs the opponent FB can’t help his mates. The IW can dribble, shot or pass, the AF sits on the shoulder and the WB can give a cross to my 202cm guy in the middle. Now I can add a MEZs to overload the channel or a DLPs in MC position to orchestrate play or just a plain MC or B2B for deep runs.

On the right side I have another IW on sup. For killerballs into my AF and a slow WBd for width and crosses from deep. Maybe overload the channels with a MEZa here and move opponents on my left side while the DMs switches play to the other side to bring the IWa into play? 
I want my team to win the ball in a midblock and play it forward not too fast, because my players are not the quickest, instead I want to play the ball with patience waiting for a good opportunity. That means work Ball into box, shorter to standard passing, play out of defence and overlap left and right with standard tempo. Sounds a little boring … how about short passing but higher tempo, my team has good tech and first touch (?)
any suggestions?

Edited November 30, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[frukox]

1 saat önce, HanziZoloman said:

Thank you @frukox 

My best crosser are my wingbacks, my best passers are my IW and MC. 
The AF will have two defenders in the center. if I go for IWa on the left cutting aggressively into the halfspace the other defender is busy too. Adding a WBs the opponent FB can’t help his mates. The IW can dribble, shot or pass, the AF sits on the shoulder and the WB can give a cross to my 202cm guy in the middle. Now I can add a MEZs to overload the channel or a DLPs in MC position to orchestrate play or just a plain MC or B2B for deep runs.

On the right side I have another IW on sup. For killerballs into my AF and a slow WBd for width and crosses from deep. Maybe overload the channels with a MEZa here and move opponents on my left side while the DMs switches play to the other side to bring the IWa into play? 
I want my team to win the ball in a midblock and play it forward not too fast, because my players are not the quickest, instead I want to play the ball with patience waiting for a good opportunity. That means work Ball into box, shorter to standard passing, play out of defence and overlap left and right with standard tempo. Sounds a little boring … how about short passing but higher tempo, my team has good tech and first touch (?)
any suggestions?

Wow, you are not too far off from a good base. You definitely have a clear idea about how you want your team to move. 

First, your left flank is pretty good; you don't need to overload this side because you don't have anyone on the other side to unlock that side. Instead, think about overloading the right-hand side to isolate your left winger with opposition FB.

Secondly, IWA cuts inside, WBS will keep the width so you just need a support player arriving late in the box when you camp deep in their penalty area there. So guess which role could it be?

Now, let's think about how you can force the opposition to commit to the right side. IWS will cut inside early to overload central areas in the build-up play so you need another player maintaining the width early there and another runner down that channel. WBD isn't reliable to go down the flank early. So what could be the other two roles?

When it comes to your playstyle in your mind don't overthink or overdo. You want crosses for your striker yet you want to tick WBiB do you really need it to reduce feared early long-shots? You only need a system in which all roles complements each other while creating space for your main goalscorer.

Overlaps will slow your play but you need early advanced support for your striker which need to come from left flank and centrally. So maybe only letting your FB overlap could be feasible, which is something you need to check while watching matches. Lastly, higher tempo requires high decisions and anticipation. Is your team mentally able to move the ball fast to the final third without losing it?

[HanziZoloman]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb frukox:

WBD isn't reliable to go down the flank early. So what could be the other two roles?

Thank you, it helps so much going through step by step.

1st it’s a B2B obviously on the left and I have good players for that role.

2nd I don’t have a good winger on the right but a really strong IWs. My WB has 14 crossing, 14 ACC and 10 PAC but is still young, I should train him to get 12 PAC and then it’s a solid WBs. Beforehand it’s a WBd. Means the width becomes the task of my MC as a MEZa/s. But no runner from deep (?)

DM should be switching play, so DLPs/d should work or just a plain DMs is a little quicker.

Higher Tempo: My Anticipation is not the best nor the worst. I have to try, depends on the players. On Saturday I‘ll try the setup and report back.

Everything else you suggest makes sense to me but gives room for tinkering. 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[frukox]

10 dakika önce, HanziZoloman said:

Thank you, it helps so much going through step by step.

1st it’s a B2B obviously on the left and I have good players for that role.

2nd I don’t have a good winger on the right but a really strong IWs. My WB has 14 crossing, 14 ACC and 10 PAC but is still young, I should train him to get 12 PAC and then it’s a solid WBs. Beforehand it’s a WBd. Means the width becomes the task of my MC as a MEZa/s. But no runner from deep (?)

DM should be switching play, so DLPs/d should work or just a plain DMs is a little quicker.

Higher Tempo: My Anticipation is not the best nor the worst. I have to try, depends on the players. On Saturday I‘ll try the setup and report back.

Everything else you suggest makes sense to me but gives room for tinkering. 

 

What if your BBM is caught up the pitch because WBS will get forward too? A simple CMS may do the job of both covering that side and arriving late into the box. 

Don't you have anyone else right-footed with speed and some defensive sense that can be a wingback on that side? Don't get stuck on roles. I have a LB out of a AMR so it makes sense as long he has the attributes to play that role.

DMS would be risky with both fullbacks going forward. You may need a disciplined role who can cover the central channel so that your CBs won't step forward but then you will lose some needed support in the middle so what now?

Learning happens when experimenting and watching games. So keep going!

 

[HanziZoloman]

@frukox managed to finish the season this evening.
I played exactly like we discussed with a plain MCs and two WBs plus a DMd in the middle. (My defence was a stopper cover combo, as one is slow but strong and the other is quick but not as good in the tackle) First game was a sad loss with goals conceding like before simple cross and a shot from the corner of the box. But second half was slightly showing progress toward the play we talked about here. 
Next match went better, I changed nothing in roles but some of the staff and we took a draw at home against the top Flyer of the league giving 3 points away with a stupid penalty. 
the next three games were all victorious. In all matches my AF Chartier scored a goal which was the plan. Also my IWa had much better ratings and especially in the last two matches the overload right unlock left was there. 
I believe it saved my job. I didn’t met the expectations in winning promotion but the Boss extended my contract anyway which was expiring. I believe because of the strong finish. 
thanks man that help of you was needed! Hope to see you around here again
 

Edited November 30, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[pedromanuelpinto]

Great guide!