Wiping the Slate Clean: A Logical Guide to Building a Tactic from Scratch

bosque · May 13, 2022

After an awful start and a few tinkering we managed a good streak. We aren't playing brillantly but the team is coherent, with passing options and the best thing is I know what I'm doing and what the team needs to develop the style I want.

Raymond85 · May 13, 2022

@dcayton9 would you consider a b2b midfielder a hybrid in your system?

Lumbertubs · May 13, 2022

On 04/05/2022 at 23:48, dcayton9 said:

Tempo: Tempo directly relates to the time that a player takes to make a decision on the ball. Whether it is the right decision or not depends on their mental attributes. Because of this, set to high when your players are capable of making good decisions with high anticipation to quickly read the next move. If they are poor decision makers or can’t anticipate the team’s next move, you may want to drop it a notch, and give them more time on the ball. However, if their composure is low, they may get pressed into a bad pass, so be wary of this. If your players are good or bad at both, maybe keep your tempo on normal and let them react as they will. Results should still follow.

Tempo is one of the things I struggle to fully get my head around because, as you demonstrate with what you've said above, it seems to me that there are arguments for having poorer players play with a higher tempo and arguments for the same players to play with a lower tempo.

Sticking with the example of poorer players, a higher tempo might work if you're playing against a team that's pressing you and you don't want your players dawdling on the ball which increases the likelihood of them being dispossessed but, at the same time, telling poor decision makers to do things more quickly could equally result in an errant pass and possession being given up that way. I suppose the solution to that last bit would be to make sure that your poor decision makers have plenty of options around them so that they're less likely to give it away.

Meanwhile a lower tempo might work if you want your poor decision makers to take their time over what they're doing (thereby negating their poor decision making to a degree) but that would obviously only apply if the opposition isn't pressing so much and is allowing your poorer decision makers the time they need.

Like you say, normal is probably a good starting point and it can be adjusted up or down depending on what you see in game.

Would you say that the above is a fair summary?

This thread is really useful by the way because I think a lot of people (myself included) don't fully understand what all these different instructions (and roles, duties, mentality etc) actually do and the game is pretty bad at explaining it in my view.

prched55 · May 13, 2022

45 minutes ago, Lumbertubs said:

Tempo is one of the things I struggle to fully get my head around because, as you demonstrate with what you've said above, it seems to me that there are arguments for having poorer players play with a higher tempo and arguments for the same players to play with a lower tempo.

I adjust tempo based on what the other team is doing. If they are pressing me and my players are losing the ball or putting themselves into bad positions, I'll move the tempo up a notch. If the other team isn't pressing me and we have lots of time on the ball, I lower tempo so the runners have time to get into position for a pass. I also sometimes find the tempo is fine in build up but we are too quick in the final third (taking shots when we should be passing, dribbling right away instead of holding up the ball, etc.) and I'll add work ball into box if I see that.

I'm not OP but I always start on normal tempo and adjust from what I see in the first 15-ish minutes. I also change it consistently throughout the game. Tempo and line of engagement/defensive line are the things I adjust the most.

goalash · May 13, 2022

On 24/04/2022 at 17:55, dcayton9 said:

4-man midfield: You have to resort to a box, which should be decided if you have 2 limited AM types and 2 limited DM types, or a diamond, which would have would fit one limited AM and DM, as well as two fairly versatile runners.

I have a problem: most of the time I play a midfield 2 DM/2 AM box. The tricky part is the DMs are a Segundo Volante and an Anchor Man.

With SV’s aggressive forward charges with the ball, I’m always struggling to set the AMCL’s and AMCR’s roles so that the Segundo Volante actually has space to move into instead of bouncing off a teammate.

So far I figured that Advanced Playmakers/TQ’s/Enganches should not be on the same side as the Segundo Volante, so I’m mostly playing an Attacking Midfielder on suport ahead of the SV, but it’s still not that great:

STC: Advanced Forward

AMCL: Advanced Playmaker (a)

AMCR: Attacking Midfielder (s)

DMCL: Anchor Man

DMCR: Segundo Volante (s)

There are also Wingers (s) in the ML/MR spots.

I’d appreciate some input on the matter.

Edited May 13, 2022 by goalash

bosque · May 13, 2022

hace 27 minutos, goalash dijo:

I have a problem: most of the time I play a midfield 2 DM/2 AM box. The tricky part is the DMs are a Segundo Volante and an Anchor Man.

With SV’s aggressive forward charges with the ball, I’m always struggling to set the AMCL’s and AMCR’s roles so that the Segundo Volante actually has space to move into instead of bouncing off a teammate.

So far I figured that Advanced Playmakers/TQ’s/Enganches should not be on the same side as the Segundo Volante, so I’m mostly playing an Attacking Midfielder on suport ahead of the SV, but it’s still not that great:

STC: Advanced Forward

AMCL: Advanced Playmaker (a)

AMCR: Attacking Midfielder (s)

DMCL: Anchor Man

DMCR: Segundo Volante (s)

There are also Wingers (s) in the ML/MR spots.

I’d appreciate some input on the matter.

Is the Segundo Volante in support duty? If so, you can use AM on attack or Shadow Striker pushing up creating space for the SV.

goalash · May 13, 2022

1 hour ago, bosque said:

Is the Segundo Volante in support duty? If so, you can use AM on attack or Shadow Striker pushing up creating space for the SV.

Yes, he’s on Support. I thought about a Shadow Striker, but for some reason I never can get them to score and actually shadow strike. Just can’t seem to make them work.

And if the AM had to remain in Support too? Maybe and Enganche?

bosque · May 13, 2022

hace 24 minutos, goalash dijo:

Yes, he’s on Support. I thought about a Shadow Striker, but for some reason I never can get them to score and actually shadow strike. Just can’t seem to make them work.

And if the AM had to remain in Support too? Maybe and Enganche?

If you choose Enganche I think he will be a pivot, I'm not sure if will create space for the SV. But SV will be close to the Enganche to link up. I think the question is what do yo want from the SV.

Another option is giving your AM the PI "Move into channels" so he moves to the halfspace creating space in the central channel fro the SV.

Edit: the best way is to try those roles in a match. You can reload the same match several times or play it on full time so you can watch the movements. Use an old checkpoint and treat it like a training match.

Edited May 13, 2022 by bosque

dcayton9 · May 13, 2022

12 hours ago, Raymond85 said:

@dcayton9 would you consider a b2b midfielder a hybrid in your system?

The roles i laid out in the table apply to attack duties. Since the BBM is only on support, I like to treat it like an extra body to attack the box from a zone where there may be no one currently attacking it. For example, behind an advanced forward in a 4-4-2 or on either of the two CMs in the front of a 4-3-3 making runs into the 10 space.

@goalash

Everything that @bosque is saying is what I would say. I'd give SS stay wider too so that they sit wider creating space for the SV to run into and not use the EG at the other AM since it's very static. In front if you're using one forward, I'd want an attack duty with a creative element that's not dropping deep so TF(a), CF(a), or maybe PF(a) (it weirdly acts more in support than AF(a)). With two forwards, I would put an AF or poacher as one for a true scorer and then a role like a PF(s) or CF(s) that creates space for the shadow striker but doesn't drop too deep into the AM space.

dcayton9 · May 14, 2022

Enhancing Instructions and In-Game Changes:

Once your entire base tactic is established, you should be in a good position to set and forget the rest of the season, though there are ways to achieve even better results. The first comes in the form of what I call “enhancing instructions,” or methods to enhance your play against the weaknesses of your opposition. Under the bracket of these enhancing instructions lies pre-match instructions and in-match instructions. However, in-match instructions also involve some changes to initial instructions we laid out earlier

Pre-Match Instructions: These instructions are recommended to be added before the start of each match to suit the players you choose to start that match or the opposition’s players/style.

Overlap Left/Right: Use on a side if your wing player won’t be often beating the opposition fullback one-on-one, usually due to lack of space or an especially defensive player at the position. Instead, they will sit slightly narrower, and slow the game down, waiting for the fullback behind them to overlap and look to play in combination with them. This can be excellent at breaking down sides that sit deep in a bid to get more players forwards, as well as create effective two-on-ones against flank players. Suits inverted wide players as well as effective attacking fullbacks
Underlap Left/Right: Similar to overlap left/right in use, but instead if you’d rather your fullbacks and CMs on that side make underlapping runs. The same purposes regarding breaking down stubborn sides applies. Suits CMs that look to get further forward (CM(a), BBM, etc) on that side and fullbacks that aren't looking to cross as a key part of their game (wrong footed for their flank or bad at crossing).
Low, Whipped, or Floated Crosses: This instruction is really something you could leave blank and let your players decide, especially if they’re decent but I do like choosing one in most matches. This instruction usually should match to the type of striker you’re using. Low fits quick and small strikers, whipped fits strikers with good technique/finishing and decent size, whereas floated fits strong strikers with good jumping reach and heading. Similarly, you could choose this based on the strengths/weaknesses of opposition defenders. If your opposition outsizes you but is slower, try low, and if they are shorter than your striker, try floated. If they simply don’t look like great defenders relative to your strikers, but are evenly matched physically, try whipped.
Defensive Width: If you are facing a team that is using wingbacks and wingers, you can look to Force Opposition Inside, in an attempt to force the opposition inside and nullify their crossing threat. In combination, you can mark their central midfielders tightly and show wide players on their inside foot to try to force the wingers or wingbacks to have to cut inside on their weaker foot to create chances. On the other hand, if you are facing a team with an AM and wide attackers looking to invert on their strong foot, you can Force Opposition Outside in order to nullify the creative impact the other team can make through the middle.

In-Match Tweaks: Instead of laying out a list of instructions, I will walk through game scenarios and explain where changes are necessary and in which situation. I will assume that you are watching each game in Extended or Key highlight view, as I assume the majority of players do this. You can gain a lot of info on how your tactic is working by going through the matches in Full or Comprehensive, but it takes a lot of time that not everyone has, so I won’t recommend it here. If you do choose to watch on full, I like putting the game speed on fast, for a little bit to watch how play develops and the areas the opposition wants to play in. Then, slow it down when my team is in a fixed attacking period to look for what is and isn't working.

0-15 Minutes: From this time period, I stick with the initial tactic I set up before the match. Here is the time to see if everything is running smoothly. If you concede a goal in this time period, immediately switch up one mentality level to try and equalize as soon as possible. If you score a goal, switch down a mentality and turn on counter if not already on.
At 15 Minutes: If the score is still 0-0, check the shots and possession. If you are losing the battle by a decent amount, switch down a mentality, if you are winning, switch up a mentality, if 50/50 split and similar shots, stay at the same. The idea behind this is that lower mentalities absorb pressure better before hitting on the break and higher mentalities work to get more players forwards, hopefully converting the chances. Make a mental note on where the stats are at and continue from there.
15-45 Minutes: At this point the real changes start happening. At 30 minutes, do a mentality reassessment using the same framework as the 15 minute check. Now you can also start messing with instructions to get the most out of your play. We’ll diverge into checklist form to make these more clear.
- Does an opposition player on a certain flank have a low match rating or yellow card? Focus Play to their Flank or Switch the player directly attacking them to a higher duty (defense -> support or support -> attack).
- Is the opposition in an organized block that you aren’t creating chances on, even though your team is of higher quality? Try Run at Defense to create qualitative superiority and 2v1 overloads based on beating a man with individual skill. Similarly, if your shots are all low xG opportunities but you're getting plenty of them, you can try turning on Work Ball Into Box in order to pass through the opposition and exert qualitative superiority that way.
- On the other hand, is the opposition dominating play, with every highlight showing all but 2 men forward in the final third? Try Pass Into Space to further exploit the counter if your forwards are fast, or try Dribble Less, as the ball moves faster than a person can, so with deeper players having less onus to progress the ball with the dribble, they will hopefully fire passes forwards. The same applies for Early Crosses, though this is a dribble less for solely wingbacks/wingers.
- If your team goes down a goal in this span, I recommend, again, going up a mentality to put the pressure on. Likewise, if your team goes up, switch down and turn on counter. However, when you switch this mentality, again make a mental note of where the stats are and adjust from there. For instance, if you switch up a mentality after conceding a goal and you are being dominated by the opposition after 10 minutes, switch back down.
Halftime: At this point, I switch back to my base mentality if I’m up or drawing, and if I’m down a goal I switch up a mentality. I usually look at match ratings and the analytical data at the half, to identify what is failing if things aren’t working and why a player may be performing poorly. For example, watch his lost possessions or failed passes, then try and fix my tactic accordingly to get better results. This could simply be changing an individual instruction, a duty, a role, or even the roles around him.
45-75 Minutes: Continue the same methods of evaluation as the 15-45 minute marks.
- If your team is starting to rack up yellow cards, check Stay on Feet. If they have none and you’re behind, it may not be a bad idea to Get Stuck In.
- Along similar lines, if you’re up you may want to Slow Pace Down to further Distribute Quickly to keep the ball in play more often if you’re down.
- Now, along with your mentality switches, at this point you may want to start changing your Tempo or Passing Length.
  - If I want to control a game for the final act, I start to gradually lower the tempo and then the passing length by minute 75 or so
  - If I need to get a goal, I start to increase tempo around minute 60 and the passing directness around 75.
  - Your current mentality generally dictates the amount that attacking aggressiveness tones down or increases based on tempo and passing, so keep this in mind too when making changes.
- Along with changes to your passing length and tempo, you can start to change your defensive style to accompany a more aggressive or passive approach. Generally, the changing of mentalities does this naturally, however if you are doing one of these, it would be to exaggerate the effect or severely nullify or increase threat.
  - If you are up a goal, you can drop your line of engagement to lower your overall intensity, as well as open more space for potential counters to increase your lead. Then, you can drop your defensive line a notch to prevent balls in behind as well if opposition highlights seem to be coming from that.
  - If you’re down a goal, you can raise your line of engagement to hopefully win the ball higher and turn that into a goal. Further, you can raise your defensive line to hopefully push your team higher as a whole.
75-90 Minutes: From this point, I start to seriously tone down or ramp up my game to close off or come back. If behind by 1 at 75 minutes go up a mentality or down one if you’re winning. Gradually increase this every 5 minutes until Very Attacking if you need the win at all costs and ignoring goal differential or until Attacking if you care about GD. This is the same in the opposite direction if you’re winning by 1 and want to preserve the lead, decrease all the way down to very defensive if you want to shut down, or defensive if you want to play a little more risky to get the chance to nick another goal for your GD. The “Very” mentalities should only be hit by the 88-90 minute or so, or else you’ll likely be exposed too long.
- At this point, you may want to start Time Wasting if you are looking to hold on to a win. Start with the sometimes level, and then at whenever possible when you hit the 85-90 minute.
- Also, you may need to further adjust passing and tempo instructions here if needed. Go to the highest tempo possible once you get into the final minutes (90+) if you’re losing and lowest tempo if you’re winning.
- If you’re up by 2+ you can do whatever you need to do to decrease your team’s intensity as you want to save your energy for another day and with the right management, you’ll keep the lead.
- Similar to if you’re down by 2+ you can try to come back, but you can also concede the day and decrease intensity and try not to give up another goal.
- If tied, this goes down to user discretion. If you want to get the win, treat it like you’re down 1 with the same strategies. Likewise if you don’t want to lose, treat it like you’re up 1.

Note: With all of these instructions, be it pre-match or in-match, if you find yourself often applying an instruction or playing long stretches of time with it on, you can make it part of your permanent base tactic. In the long run, this gives you a more specified tactic tailored perfectly to your players and the commonalities of your opposition, to be trained every day and achieve complete tactical familiarity.

Substitution Strategies: Another active part of in-match management are substitutions. The strategies behind making them are simple, but can be effective ways to change the course of a game. You don’t need to make one of each of these every game. You can make 2 of 1 kind or none of another. I’ll quickly review the three I find most useful.

Attacking Sub: This is useful in any game and I recommend at least one in every game. Your attackers are the players who use their pace the most, as well as need not be fatigued, in order to make correct decisions. When you’re ahead, it can give you the ability to go up another goal through the super-sub, whereas behind, it should keep your attack fresh. Further, I like to modify my tactic or make a direct sub in order to get the sub on an attack duty. Even if the player is of lesser quality, the more direct play involved with attack duty should benefit the new player and help another more tired player make a bigger effect through supporting play.
Attacker for Defender / Defender for Attacker: I’d wait to make this sub until after the 75th minute, but you’d use it when chasing or protecting a lead. You’ll need to make modifications to your set-up in this case.
- While running a 4ATB system, you can bring on a defender to switch to a 5ATB system, shifting a 3rd CB into the back line at the cost of an attacker. If you are using a 2 striker shape, it will now become 1 striker, if running a 4-3-3, shift the wide player that stays on to a second striker, and if in a general 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-1-2 shape switch to a 5-2-2-1 type of shape. If you are already in a three defender shape, you can bring on a defensive midfielder type player and switch to a 5-3-2 shape with a DM, or a more defensive wingback.
- For bringing on an attacker, it could be a simple as taking off a DM and putting on an AM. On the other hand, you could bring off a LB or RB, shift the other one into a CB, and run a true 3ATB with no wingbacks and an extra attacker. Then you will have to modify the roles of your attackers to create space for all of them, but your attacking power should be greatly increased.
Direct Sub / Injury Sub: This hardly needs explanation, but if you have a player with especially bad natural fitness or stamina, and can never make it past minute 60, you might want to make a direct substitution. This substitution type is also useful for getting young players playing time. In the cameo case here, you want to get the player on before the 75th minute, as they will have a better chance of getting involved and getting the crucial match rating necessary for development. Further, you never know when a severe injury will happen, and you don’t want to be playing a man down for the final 10 minutes of a crucial game because you used up your subs too early.

Shouts: Use shouts as often as possible. They keep your team’s morale high, which in turn makes them drain stamina slower and play at a higher energy level. Encourage should be used at any point where you are losing or drawing. Demand More can be used in similar cases with the added case of up by one goal late. Berate should be used when down by 2 or more goals or 1 goal and your team is creating nothing. Praise should be used when your team is up by one goal in early game or up by two or more in late game. No Pressure works well when you are the underdog up against a greater side, and you are in any situation of that game. The other shouts are best for individual players when their body language shows certain negative aspects and you want to assuage that.

Now, you should have the guidelines to create a tactic that fits your team, and confidently manage them in every match. I would love to make further posts on opposition instructions and individual instructions, but I just started summer coursework, so I don’t know if I’ll have time over the coming weeks. I will stay active on the forum though so if anyone has questions let me know and please feel free to share your tactics and setups in the thread, I love seeing them.

bosque · May 14, 2022

I'm really loving this guide because it helped me to organize with tactcs. Everything makes a lot of sense, it feels like instructions for football and not for football manager and it doesn't feel like fixed black or white instructions. I will share a doubt I have with my tactic.

With Leverkusen 2 of my 3 starting attackers aren't hardworkers or goalscoring threats. Because of this and according to the first post is reccommended to play my wide attackers in the M(L,R) position. But if I do this I feel my only striker (and goalscoring threat) gets isolated and not sure what role use for him.

Players Defensive attributes:

Players Attacking attributes:

Tactic:

Can you recommend me some role/position tweak or should I change to a 4411?

Edited May 15, 2022 by bosque

MattSpurs94 · May 15, 2022

23 hours ago, dcayton9 said:

Enhancing Instructions and In-Game Changes:

Once your entire base tactic is established, you should be in a good position to set and forget the rest of the season, though there are ways to achieve even better results. The first comes in the form of what I call “enhancing instructions,” or methods to enhance your play against the weaknesses of your opposition. Under the bracket of these enhancing instructions lies pre-match instructions and in-match instructions. However, in-match instructions also involve some changes to initial instructions we laid out earlier

Pre-Match Instructions: These instructions are recommended to be added before the start of each match to suit the players you choose to start that match or the opposition’s players/style.

Overlap Left/Right: Use on a side if your wing player won’t be often beating the opposition fullback one-on-one, usually due to lack of space or an especially defensive player at the position. Instead, they will sit slightly narrower, and slow the game down, waiting for the fullback behind them to overlap and look to play in combination with them. This can be excellent at breaking down sides that sit deep in a bid to get more players forwards, as well as create effective two-on-ones against flank players. Suits inverted wide players as well as effective attacking fullbacks

Underlap Left/Right: Similar to overlap left/right in use, but instead if you’d rather your fullbacks and CMs on that side make underlapping runs. The same purposes regarding breaking down stubborn sides applies. Suits CMs that look to get further forward (CM(a), BBM, etc) on that side and fullbacks that aren't looking to cross as a key part of their game (wrong footed for their flank or bad at crossing).

Low, Whipped, or Floated Crosses: This instruction is really something you could leave blank and let your players decide, especially if they’re decent but I do like choosing one in most matches. This instruction usually should match to the type of striker you’re using. Low fits quick and small strikers, whipped fits strikers with good technique/finishing and decent size, whereas floated fits strong strikers with good jumping reach and heading. Similarly, you could choose this based on the strengths/weaknesses of opposition defenders. If your opposition outsizes you but is slower, try low, and if they are shorter than your striker, try floated. If they simply don’t look like great defenders relative to your strikers, but are evenly matched physically, try whipped.

Defensive Width: If you are facing a team that is using wingbacks and wingers, you can look to Force Opposition Inside, in an attempt to force the opposition inside and nullify their crossing threat. In combination, you can mark their central midfielders tightly and show wide players on their inside foot to try to force the wingers or wingbacks to have to cut inside on their weaker foot to create chances. On the other hand, if you are facing a team with an AM and wide attackers looking to invert on their strong foot, you can Force Opposition Outside in order to nullify the creative impact the other team can make through the middle.

In-Match Tweaks: Instead of laying out a list of instructions, I will walk through game scenarios and explain where changes are necessary and in which situation. I will assume that you are watching each game in Extended or Key highlight view, as I assume the majority of players do this. You can gain a lot of info on how your tactic is working by going through the matches in Full or Comprehensive, but it takes a lot of time that not everyone has, so I won’t recommend it here. If you do choose to watch on full, I like putting the game speed on fast, for a little bit to watch how play develops and the areas the opposition wants to play in. Then, slow it down when my team is in a fixed attacking period to look for what is and isn't working.

0-15 Minutes: From this time period, I stick with the initial tactic I set up before the match. Here is the time to see if everything is running smoothly. If you concede a goal in this time period, immediately switch up one mentality level to try and equalize as soon as possible. If you score a goal, switch down a mentality and turn on counter if not already on.

At 15 Minutes: If the score is still 0-0, check the shots and possession. If you are losing the battle by a decent amount, switch down a mentality, if you are winning, switch up a mentality, if 50/50 split and similar shots, stay at the same. The idea behind this is that lower mentalities absorb pressure better before hitting on the break and higher mentalities work to get more players forwards, hopefully converting the chances. Make a mental note on where the stats are at and continue from there.

15-45 Minutes: At this point the real changes start happening. At 30 minutes, do a mentality reassessment using the same framework as the 15 minute check. Now you can also start messing with instructions to get the most out of your play. We’ll diverge into checklist form to make these more clear.
Does an opposition player on a certain flank have a low match rating or yellow card? Focus Play to their Flank or Switch the player directly attacking them to a higher duty (defense -> support or support -> attack).

Is the opposition in an organized block that you aren’t creating chances on, even though your team is of higher quality? Try Run at Defense to create qualitative superiority and 2v1 overloads based on beating a man with individual skill. Similarly, if your shots are all low xG opportunities but you're getting plenty of them, you can try turning on Work Ball Into Box in order to pass through the opposition and exert qualitative superiority that way.

On the other hand, is the opposition dominating play, with every highlight showing all but 2 men forward in the final third? Try Pass Into Space to further exploit the counter if your forwards are fast, or try Dribble Less, as the ball moves faster than a person can, so with deeper players having less onus to progress the ball with the dribble, they will hopefully fire passes forwards. The same applies for Early Crosses, though this is a dribble less for solely wingbacks/wingers.

If your team goes down a goal in this span, I recommend, again, going up a mentality to put the pressure on. Likewise, if your team goes up, switch down and turn on counter. However, when you switch this mentality, again make a mental note of where the stats are and adjust from there. For instance, if you switch up a mentality after conceding a goal and you are being dominated by the opposition after 10 minutes, switch back down.

Halftime: At this point, I switch back to my base mentality if I’m up or drawing, and if I’m down a goal I switch up a mentality. I usually look at match ratings and the analytical data at the half, to identify what is failing if things aren’t working and why a player may be performing poorly. For example, watch his lost possessions or failed passes, then try and fix my tactic accordingly to get better results. This could simply be changing an individual instruction, a duty, a role, or even the roles around him.

45-75 Minutes: Continue the same methods of evaluation as the 15-45 minute marks.
If your team is starting to rack up yellow cards, check Stay on Feet. If they have none and you’re behind, it may not be a bad idea to Get Stuck In.

Along similar lines, if you’re up you may want to Slow Pace Down to further Distribute Quickly to keep the ball in play more often if you’re down.

Now, along with your mentality switches, at this point you may want to start changing your Tempo or Passing Length.
If I want to control a game for the final act, I start to gradually lower the tempo and then the passing length by minute 75 or so

If I need to get a goal, I start to increase tempo around minute 60 and the passing directness around 75.

Your current mentality generally dictates the amount that attacking aggressiveness tones down or increases based on tempo and passing, so keep this in mind too when making changes.

Along with changes to your passing length and tempo, you can start to change your defensive style to accompany a more aggressive or passive approach. Generally, the changing of mentalities does this naturally, however if you are doing one of these, it would be to exaggerate the effect or severely nullify or increase threat.
If you are up a goal, you can drop your line of engagement to lower your overall intensity, as well as open more space for potential counters to increase your lead. Then, you can drop your defensive line a notch to prevent balls in behind as well if opposition highlights seem to be coming from that.

If you’re down a goal, you can raise your line of engagement to hopefully win the ball higher and turn that into a goal. Further, you can raise your defensive line to hopefully push your team higher as a whole.

75-90 Minutes: From this point, I start to seriously tone down or ramp up my game to close off or come back. If behind by 1 at 75 minutes go up a mentality or down one if you’re winning. Gradually increase this every 5 minutes until Very Attacking if you need the win at all costs and ignoring goal differential or until Attacking if you care about GD. This is the same in the opposite direction if you’re winning by 1 and want to preserve the lead, decrease all the way down to very defensive if you want to shut down, or defensive if you want to play a little more risky to get the chance to nick another goal for your GD. The “Very” mentalities should only be hit by the 88-90 minute or so, or else you’ll likely be exposed too long.
At this point, you may want to start Time Wasting if you are looking to hold on to a win. Start with the sometimes level, and then at whenever possible when you hit the 85-90 minute.

Also, you may need to further adjust passing and tempo instructions here if needed. Go to the highest tempo possible once you get into the final minutes (90+) if you’re losing and lowest tempo if you’re winning.

If you’re up by 2+ you can do whatever you need to do to decrease your team’s intensity as you want to save your energy for another day and with the right management, you’ll keep the lead.

Similar to if you’re down by 2+ you can try to come back, but you can also concede the day and decrease intensity and try not to give up another goal.

If tied, this goes down to user discretion. If you want to get the win, treat it like you’re down 1 with the same strategies. Likewise if you don’t want to lose, treat it like you’re up 1.

Note: With all of these instructions, be it pre-match or in-match, if you find yourself often applying an instruction or playing long stretches of time with it on, you can make it part of your permanent base tactic. In the long run, this gives you a more specified tactic tailored perfectly to your players and the commonalities of your opposition, to be trained every day and achieve complete tactical familiarity.

Substitution Strategies: Another active part of in-match management are substitutions. The strategies behind making them are simple, but can be effective ways to change the course of a game. You don’t need to make one of each of these every game. You can make 2 of 1 kind or none of another. I’ll quickly review the three I find most useful.

Attacking Sub: This is useful in any game and I recommend at least one in every game. Your attackers are the players who use their pace the most, as well as need not be fatigued, in order to make correct decisions. When you’re ahead, it can give you the ability to go up another goal through the super-sub, whereas behind, it should keep your attack fresh. Further, I like to modify my tactic or make a direct sub in order to get the sub on an attack duty. Even if the player is of lesser quality, the more direct play involved with attack duty should benefit the new player and help another more tired player make a bigger effect through supporting play.

Attacker for Defender / Defender for Attacker: I’d wait to make this sub until after the 75th minute, but you’d use it when chasing or protecting a lead. You’ll need to make modifications to your set-up in this case.
While running a 4ATB system, you can bring on a defender to switch to a 5ATB system, shifting a 3rd CB into the back line at the cost of an attacker. If you are using a 2 striker shape, it will now become 1 striker, if running a 4-3-3, shift the wide player that stays on to a second striker, and if in a general 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-1-2 shape switch to a 5-2-2-1 type of shape. If you are already in a three defender shape, you can bring on a defensive midfielder type player and switch to a 5-3-2 shape with a DM, or a more defensive wingback.

For bringing on an attacker, it could be a simple as taking off a DM and putting on an AM. On the other hand, you could bring off a LB or RB, shift the other one into a CB, and run a true 3ATB with no wingbacks and an extra attacker. Then you will have to modify the roles of your attackers to create space for all of them, but your attacking power should be greatly increased.

Direct Sub / Injury Sub: This hardly needs explanation, but if you have a player with especially bad natural fitness or stamina, and can never make it past minute 60, you might want to make a direct substitution. This substitution type is also useful for getting young players playing time. In the cameo case here, you want to get the player on before the 75th minute, as they will have a better chance of getting involved and getting the crucial match rating necessary for development. Further, you never know when a severe injury will happen, and you don’t want to be playing a man down for the final 10 minutes of a crucial game because you used up your subs too early.

Shouts: Use shouts as often as possible. They keep your team’s morale high, which in turn makes them drain stamina slower and play at a higher energy level. Encourage should be used at any point where you are losing or drawing. Demand More can be used in similar cases with the added case of up by one goal late. Berate should be used when down by 2 or more goals or 1 goal and your team is creating nothing. Praise should be used when your team is up by one goal in early game or up by two or more in late game. No Pressure works well when you are the underdog up against a greater side, and you are in any situation of that game. The other shouts are best for individual players when their body language shows certain negative aspects and you want to assuage that.

Now, you should have the guidelines to create a tactic that fits your team, and confidently manage them in every match. I would love to make further posts on opposition instructions and individual instructions, but I just started summer coursework, so I don’t know if I’ll have time over the coming weeks. I will stay active on the forum though so if anyone has questions let me know and please feel free to share your tactics and setups in the thread, I love seeing them.

So I play a Cautious system. Let's say I go a goal down in the first 15 minutes, so I switch up to balanced. Should I still change the mentality up at the 15 minute mark too?

And if I equalise before 15 minutes, should I switch back down to Cautious?

goalash · May 15, 2022

On 14/05/2022 at 00:04, dcayton9 said:

Everything that @bosque is saying is what I would say. I'd give SS stay wider too so that they sit wider creating space for the SV to run into and not use the EG at the other AM since it's very static. In front if you're using one forward, I'd want an attack duty with a creative element that's not dropping deep so TF(a), CF(a), or maybe PF(a) (it weirdly acts more in support than AF(a)). With two forwards, I would put an AF or poacher as one for a true scorer and then a role like a PF(s) or CF(s) that creates space for the shadow striker but doesn't drop too deep into the AM space.

This is the shape I’m working on.

I’m aware of the unorthodox nature of the defensive setup, but:

A. it allows me to merge 3ATB and wingers,

B. it’s my own idea and I like it,

C. it works. I’ve just won African Cup of Nations with it.

I’m having problems setting the front three up though. The Mentality is Positive, hence TWO attack duties: the Advanced Forward (top goalscorer) and the left Winger (top creator, might as well play as AMCL, but he’s left legged only, which kind of forces him off the middle to one side or the other). Staying true to the proposed philosophy - which I endorse wholeheartedly - I’m left with AMCL and AMCR on support as well as a Segundo Volante pushing from the back (the guy is a pure SV).

Edited May 15, 2022 by goalash

dcayton9 · May 16, 2022

@bosque With Moussa Diaby's Pace and Dribbling, I really think he needs to be on an attack duty, so maybe IW(a) which should also open up space for Frimpong to overlap. I think another problem is that the striker isn't focused on scoring, even though he's a great scorer. Maybe try CF(a) as Schick generally can do it all or Poacher/AF if you want to play even more direct. Also, Demirbay isn't the fastest or has the best anticipation, so late runs into the box might not be his strength. You could try AP(a) but if you do this, i'd switch Schick to one of the direct roles (P/AF). If CM(a) is working, don't change it.

On 15/05/2022 at 12:05, MattSpurs94 said:

So I play a Cautious system. Let's say I go a goal down in the first 15 minutes, so I switch up to balanced. Should I still change the mentality up at the 15 minute mark too?

And if I equalise before 15 minutes, should I switch back down to Cautious?

I would say once you go down in the first 15, you wait 10-15 minutes before changing the mentality or deciding to keep it the same. If you equalize before 15 minutes, switch to cautious again and wait 10-15 minutes before reassessing. Essentially, I try and reassess the mentality after every 10-15 minutes or a goal. This is because goals change game states so the CPU will likely act differently and when no goals are being scored, 10-15 minutes creates an adequate amount of time to judge if things are working/what the flow of the game is.

21 hours ago, goalash said:

This is the shape I’m working on.

I’m aware of the unorthodox nature of the defensive setup, but:

A. it allows me to merge 3ATB and wingers,

B. it’s my own idea and I like it,

C. it works. I’ve just won African Cup of Nations with it.

I’m having problems setting the front three up though. The Mentality is Positive, hence TWO attack duties: the Advanced Forward (top goalscorer) and the left Winger (top creator, might as well play as AMCL, but he’s left legged only, which kind of forces him off the middle to one side or the other). Staying true to the proposed philosophy - which I endorse wholeheartedly - I’m left with AMCL and AMCR on support as well as a Segundo Volante pushing from the back (the guy is a pure SV).

I like the setup, and I now realize that I did not include true three at the back systems in my guide. 4 defend duties is definitely reasonable when you only have 3 true defenders. Given that you're looking to counter, as well as running an advanced forward and a winger (a), I assume your team supports direct play. So maybe, simply the AMCR on attack with stay wider will work to combine with that flank's winger and open space for the SV.

I don't think I laid it out clear enough in the second post, but I wasn't saying that you had to play with 2 attack duties on positive. I was just indicating that it can cause your play to be more direct, so if you want a possession based system with more short passages of play, only two attack duties is possible on positive, whereas I don't think it works great on lower mentalities. I think in the way your squad is set up, three attack duties on positive is certainly warranted. I'm sorry for the confusion. A last small suggestion is LCB on defend instead of stopped, since the anchor man is already protecting the space in front of the defense.

04texag · May 16, 2022

@dcayton9 I haven't been around here in awhile, heck haven't played much FM since 2022 dropped, but this is a great post. I really like the way you methodically built things up from nothing, without overdoing the instructions, etc. Well done!

dcayton9 · May 16, 2022

32 minutes ago, 04texag said:

@dcayton9 I haven't been around here in awhile, heck haven't played much FM since 2022 dropped, but this is a great post. I really like the way you methodically built things up from nothing, without overdoing the instructions, etc. Well done!

Thank you! I really enjoyed your positional play series with Lazio last year and spent multiple seasons trying to build my Bristol City squad around principles of total football as a result

bosque · May 16, 2022

hace 1 hora, dcayton9 dijo:

@bosque With Moussa Diaby's Pace and Dribbling, I really think he needs to be on an attack duty, so maybe IW(a) which should also open up space for Frimpong to overlap. I think another problem is that the striker isn't focused on scoring, even though he's a great scorer. Maybe try CF(a) as Schick generally can do it all or Poacher/AF if you want to play even more direct. Also, Demirbay isn't the fastest or has the best anticipation, so late runs into the box might not be his strength. You could try AP(a) but if you do this, i'd switch Schick to one of the direct roles (P/AF). If CM(a) is working, don't change it.

Actually, Demirbay is scoring many goals playing as a CM(a). It may be because I think CM(a) is a bit OP this year, specially with a single striker, they cut open defences with ease.

But the other tweaks make sense. I will apply them and see what happens. Thanks!

PS: Another "happy" problem I have is I think Wirtz is my best pure creator but also is good attacking so I am trying to find a way to use him on attack duty but without losing balance.

Joey Numbaz · May 18, 2022

This is pretty incredible. I really like how it's customizable to any team, with plenty of room for interpretation and growth as you squad build. And also for tweaking due to injuries and the like. Probably took me a day to figure out how I wanted to deal with this for Everton. I'm going to switch to this now. Before using this, I am halfway through the October international break (2021) and doing OK so far with my previous tactic, 9th after match week 7, having played 3 of the big 6 already. 3-2-2. 8 goals for an 8 allowed, 9.1-7.1 xG. We'll see if this can do better :-)

This is pretty average squad overall, a couple of key strengths, and some glaring weakness, especially DR. If everyone can stay healthy I kind of like this lineup:

Note the intensity is super low. Thinking here is:

Definitely don't have three 3.5* defenders. So back 4. I've got some wingers so that works too. Looks like a 4-3-3. Dele isn't really physical (he's slow) and technical, he's just technical. So that's not great for a solo striker, but Calvert-Lewin as a wide target man seems like it might be fun.

The 3 defend duties are the CBs and Allan. Coleman could go FBd, with Allan as BWMs, but that leaves a lack of support on the right. It's a little more balanced this way. I will also play Godfrey out a DR and see if his speed makes up for lack of mentals, he's a completely different player than Coleman, we'll see who works out better.

He's by far my best scorer, but I think I can get away with him in the hybrid role, with Richarlison on the goalscorer role of IF(A). Van de Beek is the creator.

Filling in the five lanes, so far we've got Richarlison in the left channel, Dele in the middle (Van de Beek is set to hold position for some attacking cover, but he'll still get into the area, move into channel, and get forward with his PPMs, so he's basically a roaming playmaker on attack. Calvert-Lewin on the right flank.

So for the left wing, Mykolenko is the WBs with stay-wider and a gets forward when possible PPM; right channel will be Doucouré as a MEZs running through the middle and playing one-twos.

Filling in the gaps, Allan as a BWMd to cover the left side with Mykolenko getting forward. Dele as a deep-lying forward on support to link everyone together. He really can't press. I am not sure if that will work well with an APa? I guess we'll see.

Lower line of engagement because Dele can't pretty and we can draw them out some. Pickford can kick the hell out of the ball, and it could be fun with him hitting Calvert-Lewin out wide. Counter pressing because this team is average as well, but four of the five lane guys (Mykolenko, Richarlison, Doucouré and Calvert-Lewin) can press just fine, and Allan is a poor-man's destroyer backing them up.

We are average at everything, so none of the possession tweaks seem to make sense.

Hopefully I'll get to play some games the next few days and see how this goes. If anyone sees any glaring holes please let me know your thoughts. I did have one other possible option I was toying with:

Gray/Van de Beek on the right kind of kills the counter-pressing idea, but that's a nice front three for trying to hit counters so I changed that up. When Godfrey plays I'd put him on support and Allan on defend.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Joey Numbaz

Lumbertubs · May 18, 2022

@Joey NumbazI've also enjoyed this thread. I had been managing in the German 2nd division on FM 21 but the more I played, the more I realised I don't fully understand the roles/duties/instructions so this thread has been useful in forcing me to consider this in more detail. I've started an experimental save with Atletico to test this thread's ideas and to see the different ways I can set a very good team up (I'm going to do another save with someone like Burnley in order to learn how to set up as more of an underdog).

In your second screenshot you have Van de Beek as a mezzala on attack. One thing I've learned with my Atletico experiment is that I absolutely love the mezzala on attack. I use Rodrigo De Paul in the same role and he is regularly running clean through in to space and is my joint top scorer. I have Koke and Llorente as the other midfielders behind him who can pick out that pass. I also use the IF on attack on the left side too and he again is often found by Koke/Llorente or whoever is playing AMR (often an inverted winger on support who has the vision to spot the IF's run). My IFa is my other joint top scorer.

If Calvert-Lewin as a complete forward (a role I'm not familiar with) can open up the space for the mezzala and IF to run into and your support players have the ability to pick out the passes then you should hopefully see some similar results. In my opinion it definitely suits the lower LoE and counter instructions that you have. I tell my players to use shorter passing but they're more than happy to pump it forward if there's someone running in behind.

Joey Numbaz · May 18, 2022

Thanks@Lumbertubs! Appreciate that feedback.

I've been looking at it a little further and I think I'm going to go with this for the second tactic, still not sure of which tactic I'll try first:

El Ghazi is more of a true W-S than Gray is, but I'll give them both a chance. Also removed the distribute to Target Man though I'll put it back if I flip Calvert-Lewin to a TF and make Richarlison an Inverted Winger. I think this combination is a better fit for everyone though. One thing I'm noticing is that there are a lot of potential combinations with this group that would fit.

Made Doucouré a CAR instead of a B2B, needed more support and solidiness on the left, there is already plenty of penetration. Mykolenko stay wider; El Ghazi hold position; Coleman/Godfrey get further forward.

Take Long Kicks suits Pickford really well too. We'll see how it goes! I am going to train them both so I can switch based on player availability too. I have simmed a few seasons with this squad trying some tactics out earlier a month or so a go, and I'm pretty sure I am not going to get fired unless we get relegated or close to it, so that helps too. But I really want to do well so I have many more squad building options in January and June, so it's not a total free roll either.

Also nice that I have four youth games to test on before my next game.

EDIT - not a bad start so far in the youth ranks anyway (I have everything simmed with the full engine so it's apples to apples)

U23 Lost 3-2 (1.96 - 0.75 xG) vs. Arsenal
U23 won 1-0 (2.11 - 0.91 xG) at Arsenal
Total 2.86 - 2.87 vs. a good U23 squad with no prep and the players aren't specific to the system

U18 Won 5-2 (1.73 - 1.75 xG) vs. Man City - the goals were cool, two started from long keeper kicks, CFa scored 4 goals and isn't even a great prospect
U18 Won 4-0 (1.68 - 1.30 xG) at Stoke - MEZa, CFa, IFa all scored. The best player on the team by far did not even play because he was tired from the earlier game.

I get the xG were pretty close, but outscoring teams 12-5 over 4 games without the specific players it was chosen for, it at least passes the smell test of not being fatally flawed I'd think.

At West Ham tomorrow in game time!

Edited May 19, 2022 by Joey Numbaz

Joey Numbaz · May 20, 2022

So I tweaked it up a little before the West Ham game, went with this:

The thinking is that Calvert-Lewin is by far my best scorer and just let him do his thing. He's below average passing and vision. He's not a hybrid, he's a goal scorer.

Richarlison's ideal position in the game, and in my personal rating system is IWs or IWa. So again, just let him do his thing. Also his work rate is great for tracking back.

I dropped Demarai Gray back to the MR strata for solidiness on the right side. But he does have get further forward instruction ticked to also stretch play.

Other PIs Mykolenko WBs stay wider; Doucouré CARs close down more (not sure if I need this one though). Allan BWM hold position.

If I want more push down the left I leave overlap on; if I need to more solid I turn it off. That's very situational.

Godfrey is the guy most likely to lose the ball, so defend works. But ticking underlap right gives a little more support to the right side.

Doucouré is kind of a cool player, and the versatility in the midfield helps. Because when I have to sub Van de Beek, who is playing through an arm injury, Doucouré can step right over to Mezzala. Godfrey can become the BWM, Allan can move to Carrilero, and Coleman can close out the game as the IWB, with fresh legs since he's old and losing it physically. Dele doesn't really fit here, but what are you gonna do? Normally Mina would be starting over Holgate, but came back from the international break kind of tired.

Did any of this work? Kind of.

You see where we flatline about 2/3 of the way through the first half? That's when I dropped it down to cautious and just rode the game out. I kept ramping down throughout the second half, though I started on positive by mistake. Once I noticed that I dropped to balanced and then quickly down to cautious. I made the subs described above. Eventually I had to take Richarlison off because he was on the sideline with a minor knock and didn't want to play down a man up 2-0 with 10 minutes to go.

2 assists, 4 dribbles, 4 key passes, hit 3 of 5 crosses, made 4 tackles, 3 interceptions, 2 clearances. That's a nice days work!

Ben Godfrey also had a great game as the IWBd/BWMd/CDd (when he moved to BWD, I made the IWB support and took off underlap; Keane had a yellow, so he dropped to CB when I brought Davies on, who became the Carrilero with Allan moving back to BWM).

First half team stats:

I got a little lucky here in terms of xG compared to result, but overall the tactic played well and there were no glaring holes. We'll take it so far.

The goals were fun.

FIrst goal on the counter Calvert-Lewin takes the clearance in our half, lays it off to Doucouré, who finds Van de Beek through the log jam in the middle, Van de Beek hits it across the field to a charging Richarlison who has acres of space, dribbles into the edge of the area, stops, spins around a lays a beautiful pass on the ground past the defender to Doucouré who blasts into the top nearside corner of the net.

Second goal, Richarlison beats his man, Calvert-Lewin passes it into the space Richarlison is running to, he dribbles almost to the byline and floats a cross that Van de Beek heads into the same corner. Really nice play for both of these. Both shots had a .10 xG, but they seemed better :-)

If this keeps going well and I stick with it I might start a thread for it in the Career Updates area.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Joey Numbaz

Joey Numbaz · May 20, 2022

Check out this goal from my U18s - Mallon is the IWBd with underlap checked. Wow! Underlap is really fun when it works.

I can't figure out how to get a video clip up here, so I'll just show it with a few screenshots, I can only fit 3 in here due to size requirements and my 4K monitor but right before this first one Mallon. the IWBd. was just past midfield and passed it down the touchline to the Ws Okoronkwo.

Okoronkwo passes it to the MezA Jagne

Who then lays a simple pass into space on the ground to the onrushing unmarked Mallon

Who dribbles a few steps and puts the ball past the keeper and the inside post for an easy goal. It's not like Mallon is a star or anything. He's a DR/DC and a 1* with 1.5-2.5* potential prospect for a mid-table team on a defend duty. That's kind of awesome.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Joey Numbaz

Joey Numbaz · May 20, 2022

Not that I am going to post about every game, but holy cow, this was a bit ironic considering the real life game at Goodison Park yesterday. Talk about art imitating life!

I kept ratcheting up the pressure as the game went on because we were dominating. After tying it 2-2 I pushed mentality further to attack.

That was pretty amazing. The winner was a Van de Beek direct free kick in stoppage time. I don't believe the fans stormed the field after it though.

and it’s lost to history, it was just a dream. My game crashed before I could save it. I was having network issues which is why the images were in here multiple times before I could edit it. When I tried to force kill Numbers to free up RAM since I was not sure if that was the issue the game died. Ugh. Oh well based on that xG I’m likely to win the replay.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Joey Numbaz

Joey Numbaz · May 23, 2022

I finally wrote up my tactic and thinking over in the career updates thread. Thanks again for this dcayton9!

Aoyao · May 24, 2022

What's about the PASSINGDIRECTNESS?

Is it the length or the type?

Optimal-Kiwi · May 24, 2022

This is such a cool thread @dcayton9 thanks so much! Have really found it helpful in "tailoring the right suit for the team" as Conte would say.

One question I have is on the 5 channels concept below -

If you play with two strikers (STCL and STCR), would you say these attack the centre or the half spaces? The classic AF / DLF combo would have both forwards moving into the channels so I would assume the Half Space, but would they also need "Stay Wider?"

Equally if you have a Poacher or Target Forward in one of these offset striker roles, would it be safe to assume they stay central, even if they aren't exactly in the middle as with a single striker system?

dcayton9 · June 3, 2022

On 24/05/2022 at 01:09, Aoyao said:

What's about the PASSINGDIRECTNESS?

Is it the length or the type?

Passing directness relates to both of these. Longer, more direct passes inherently are more risky and involve passing into contested areas such as 50/50 balls or into space. On the other hand shorter passes are rarely in the air and are easier to play accurately, so they are usually to feet.

On 24/05/2022 at 08:26, Optimal-Kiwi said:

If you play with two strikers (STCL and STCR), would you say these attack the centre or the half spaces? The classic AF / DLF combo would have both forwards moving into the channels so I would assume the Half Space, but would they also need "Stay Wider?"

Equally if you have a Poacher or Target Forward in one of these offset striker roles, would it be safe to assume they stay central, even if they aren't exactly in the middle as with a single striker system?

Regarding the AF / DLF combo, you can reasonably assume that if the ball is on one side of the pitch, the opposite side striker will move towards the middle while the other moves into the channel. I really think they only count as true channel players if "Stay Wider" is also set. However, I don't recommend both staying wide unless you are running a diamond and have an AM directly behind filling the space.

I usually set one of the two strikers to "Stay Wider" in a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2, with the other flank having a wing player cutting in or a Mezzala running on into the channel to fill there.

Last, you're right, that the 'central' player does not have to be a single striker lined up in the middle. Just a player played in a central position that will look to attack central areas most often.

carl stanny · June 5, 2022

Thanks for this, really enjoyed reading it and looking at the game in a different way. I have vary rarely played balanced or lower defensive line, I always thought higher line and positive or attacking was the way to go for wins.

After reading all of this thread I made an old school 442 which has just won me the league losing only 1 game all season! Amazing and all thanks to the guidance in here.

Played on balanced every game, never needed to change it. The MC on attack was amazing

never had those sort of goals from midfield. I feel the balance in the tactic makes that position more deadly.

It worked so well I am going to upload it in the tactics section for others to try.

Thanks @dcayton9

Edited June 5, 2022 by carl stanny

Bunkerossian · June 8, 2022

Does the rule on the number of defend and support duties depending on the mentality apply to FM 21?

nugatti · June 16, 2022

On 08/06/2022 at 16:39, Bunkerossian said:

Does the rule on the number of defend and support duties depending on the mentality apply to FM 21?

Yes, everything you find here can be used in the same way for many of the last FM versions

smeagoltonez · June 20, 2022

Hi all,

I've finally got round to building my own tactic, based on the principles brilliantly outlined here by @dcayton9

I've taken over Colchester United at the beginning of the 21/22 season in League 2. The media prediction is 20th out of 24 teams - so not looking good!

Squad comparisons confirm that my team is weak & below average in many areas:

Defence - very poor physically. Slow but with good mentals which is unsurprising as the centre-backs are 'experienced' (to put it kindly).

Midfield - lacking any real wingers. Central midfielders are are all-rounders plus two more experienced players who lack the pace & stamina but look ok to sit in the DM & AM spots.

Attackers - hardworking, fairly aggressive, brave, good teamwork, decent anticipation. One is big & the other short. Average speed. Both would be decent pressing forwards.

This led me to settle on a narrow, 442 diamond with a low block (lower defensive line & LOE). I figured that my slow centre-backs need to play close to my goal & that if I bring the two attackers back too, it condenses the space for us to hopefully win the ball back.

Defensive Width - 'Force the opposition inside' - I'm not sure about this. It makes sense to me to force the opposition into the middle where I have superior numbers but could this mess up my team shape too much? Also, is it that big a problem if the opposition are sending crosses into the box? My big, slow centre-backs should be able to deal with this?

I'm also wondering whether to get my wingbacks to mark the opposition's wingers to force the ball inside or force them to lump it forwards where my centre-backs should win the aerial duels.

Passing Directness & Tempo - I've left these as 'standard' - I could play it short & slow due to the close proximity of my players & to allow my wingbacks to get up the pitch but I also have a decent target man to lump it up to so figured Standard is the best option.

Distribute to playmaker - my DM is quite good on the ball but lacks Off the Ball & Vision. Still, he's a better option than my centre-backs & where dominate the middle in numbers.

Dribble Less & Be More Disciplined - I'm wondering whether to activate these & then give more freedom to my better ball players. At the moment I've left it off & have given PIs to my better ball players.

Floated crosses - to find my Target Forward.

Hit early crosses - again, for my Target Forward to knock down to my AM or PF?

Focus Play Through The Middle - is this necessary given my team shape? Would it be overkill?

Attacking Width - 'Standard' - should I switch it to narrow or is this again overkill given my narrow formation?

Wingbacks - considering telling them to cross more often & to cross from deep to target my TF. But it would also be useful for them to recycle possession so that my midfield can carry the ball up the pitch through the middle. Maybe this is something that I need to consider on a game-by-game basis?

Any other suggestions or observations? I'm still a novice so don't worry about offending me!

Thanks very much!

nugatti · June 21, 2022

15 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Midfield - lacking any real wingers. Central midfielders are are all-rounders plus two more experienced players who lack the pace & stamina but look ok to sit in the DM & AM spots.

The guide says give an att role for your most creative player. Is your most creative player the HB or the AM?

If it's the HB change him to a PM role and place him in the M strata. Also I'd not go with a slow player on AM-att duty. An AM is a runner/hard worker, so maybe a holding CM role would suit him better and one of the CMs could move up?

Also, GK distribution to true playmaker role in the team makes more sense to me, otherwise distribute to player position.

An option could also be moving the AM to a WP role in M strata, giving you midfield width defensively and smart combination play with the WB? You would need to re-work the midfield, though...

15 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

I'm also wondering whether to get my wingbacks to mark the opposition's wingers to force the ball inside or force them to lump it forwards where my centre-backs should win the aerial duels

Only do this if your WBs are good at marking and have relatively high work rate, determination and stamina.

15 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Passing Directness & Tempo - I've left these as 'standard' - I could play it short & slow due to the close proximity of my players & to allow my wingbacks to get up the pitch but I also have a decent target man to lump it up to so figured Standard is the best option.

Set these to shorter/more direct and higher/lower only if your MCs, AMs, FCs have above/below league average in the skills specified in the opening post. (I use Excel for this after exportng my squad skills overview.)

Also your mentality has set this to mixed, meaning you trust your players' decisions here. If you do not trust their decisons, you can help them prioritize one way or the other. I'd assume the weight goes from 50-50 (default) to (short passes) 65-35 (direct passes) when set to shorter and vice versa on more direct (but don't use this as a fact, it's only my assumption ).

15 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Distribute to playmaker

See Midfield

15 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Focus Play Through The Middle - is this necessary given my team shape? Would it be overkill?

I'd say it's overkill. Normally stretching play creates space.

15 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Attacking Width - 'Standard'

Width should complement passing style. Wider normally works better with more direct passing. The specified players and skills as in the opening post should dictate this.

------------

It would be interesting to see if you give your interpretation a run or if you make changes. Currently working on a flat 4-4-2 with Esbjerg myself with a very promising start in the friendlies so far. Cheers

Edited June 21, 2022 by nugatti

branco2511 · June 21, 2022

@dcayton9 What are your thoughts on Defensive Wingers? Ik know you said to push your wingers up, if you want to play a high pressing game, bit if you want defensive solidity AND a higher LoE, then Defensive Wingers are the wat to go right?

dcayton9 · June 21, 2022

5 hours ago, branco2511 said:

@dcayton9 What are your thoughts on Defensive Wingers? Ik know you said to push your wingers up, if you want to play a high pressing game, bit if you want defensive solidity AND a higher LoE, then Defensive Wingers are the wat to go right?

Defensive Wingers are an odd but effective role if used right. The pressing system in FM works where the player begins in a starting position plus a growing radius based on pressing intensity, then choice of pressing based on triggers in play. The defensive winger has a maxed out radius and presses at every possible trigger. Because of this, it does offer a lot in pressing, but starts pressing from a deeper position.

Further, it is a limited role offensively. The individual instructions mean it only plays like an out and out support winger or an even more conservative version on the defense duty. Because of this, in a high pressing system where you'll want your wingers involved in attacking after winning possession, it doesn't offer as much. Besides, you can simply get the player to play a further up role that suits their needs and max out their individual pressing slider. If they have good work rate and other pressing attributes they will do a job.

Because of these limitations, I am a fan of the defensive winger in two main situations

1) As a wide player in a back 3 for a high pressing system. They don't play like a traditional wing-back, as they won't drop deep to form a back five in a set defense, however, they do allow for the ability to create high pressing traps on the full-backs. These players usually will be simply providing width and support in attack so won't need an attack duty or a more specialized role.

2) As a wide player in a back 4 for a mid or even low block system. In this system they provide defensive pressure further up, attempt to win the ball in midfield, and cover for a full-back. The deeper positioning is perfect for the deeper defense and an effective player will eat up space preventing any sort of build up on that flank.

dcayton9 · June 21, 2022

@smeagoltonez I will give a few critiques but the tips that @nugattigave are very helpful and I agree with them.

- Halfback is a niche role imo that is focused on building out of the back against two forward systems. Therefore, I'd switch the DM to an Anchor if he's slow but reads the game well, BWM if he is quick, aggressive and strong in the tackle, or a simple DM if nothing particular is his strong suit. In a deeper block with no emphasis on controlling the game DLP(defend) is not the best role so stay away from that.

- If one of your wingbacks is capable, maybe an attack duty could help. I am a strong believer of three attack duties on balanced mentality or else I think it's too dull and one dimensional. Another option is a Mezzala (attack) in the midfield on the side of your supporting forward, or your entire front 3 on attack, with the AM being set to an AP so the box doesn't get too crowded.

- I would not force opposition inside on defense. I think defending wide and low is a strange combo that lends itself to getting torn apart by teams that have superior players.

- As already said, i think distribute to player -> DM is probably a better option since you have no labeled playmaker.

- As an overall tip, I'd avoid any instructions that seem like overkill, as they probably are, then only turn them on in game when you want to overemphasize that feature.

bosque · June 22, 2022

I'm in love with this thread and all the common-sense explanations. If were an admin I would pin it right to the top. But I'm not so it's only pinned in my heart

smeagoltonez · June 22, 2022

On 21/06/2022 at 11:47, nugatti said:

The guide says give an att role for your most creative player. Is your most creative player the HB or the AM?

If it's the HB change him to a PM role and place him in the M strata. Also I'd not go with a slow player on AM-att duty. An AM is a runner/hard worker, so maybe a holding CM role would suit him better and one of the CMs could move up?

Also, GK distribution to true playmaker role in the team makes more sense to me, otherwise distribute to player position.

An option could also be moving the AM to a WP role in M strata, giving you midfield width defensively and smart combination play with the WB? You would need to re-work the midfield, though...

Only do this if your WBs are good at marking and have relatively high work rate, determination and stamina.

Set these to shorter/more direct and higher/lower only if your MCs, AMs, FCs have above/below league average in the skills specified in the opening post. (I use Excel for this after exportng my squad skills overview.)

Also your mentality has set this to mixed, meaning you trust your players' decisions here. If you do not trust their decisons, you can help them prioritize one way or the other. I'd assume the weight goes from 50-50 (default) to (short passes) 65-35 (direct passes) when set to shorter and vice versa on more direct (but don't use this as a fact, it's only my assumption ).

See Midfield

I'd say it's overkill. Normally stretching play creates space.

Width should complement passing style. Wider normally works better with more direct passing. The specified players and skills as in the opening post should dictate this.

------------

It would be interesting to see if you give your interpretation a run or if you make changes. Currently working on a flat 4-4-2 with Esbjerg myself with a very promising start in the friendlies so far. Cheers

18 hours ago, dcayton9 said:

@smeagoltonez I will give a few critiques but the tips that @nugattigave are very helpful and I agree with them.

- Halfback is a niche role imo that is focused on building out of the back against two forward systems. Therefore, I'd switch the DM to an Anchor if he's slow but reads the game well, BWM if he is quick, aggressive and strong in the tackle, or a simple DM if nothing particular is his strong suit. In a deeper block with no emphasis on controlling the game DLP(defend) is not the best role so stay away from that.

- If one of your wingbacks is capable, maybe an attack duty could help. I am a strong believer of three attack duties on balanced mentality or else I think it's too dull and one dimensional. Another option is a Mezzala (attack) in the midfield on the side of your supporting forward, or your entire front 3 on attack, with the AM being set to an AP so the box doesn't get too crowded.

- I would not force opposition inside on defense. I think defending wide and low is a strange combo that lends itself to getting torn apart by teams that have superior players.

- As already said, i think distribute to player -> DM is probably a better option since you have no labeled playmaker.

- As an overall tip, I'd avoid any instructions that seem like overkill, as they probably are, then only turn them on in game when you want to overemphasize that feature.

Thank you both very much! I read your comments earlier but didn't get time to reply properly.

I actually started with a 442. The slow AM was a WP & I had a defensive winger on the other side. Funny that both of these things have been mentioned now (although the defensive winger wasn't in response to my post).

When I get some time I will take another look at my 442 tactic & post it here for your thoughts. I was put off because it felt too simple & easy to create but that may be a further reflection of the excellent work done by @dcayton9.

Also, would a slow WP be a problem? I'd look to have my fairly athletic WB overlap to compensate.

Thanks again guys!

bosque · June 22, 2022

hace 49 minutos, smeagoltonez dijo:

Also, would a slow WP be a problem? I'd look to have my fairly athletic WB overlap to compensate.

I think you gave yourself the best answer.

smeagoltonez · June 22, 2022

16 minutes ago, bosque said:

I think you gave yourself the best answer.

Haha! I'm wondering if he will be a liability defensively. I suppose I'd look to have a more defensive CM on that side as I'd have an aggressive WB?

bosque · June 22, 2022

hace 31 minutos, smeagoltonez dijo:

Haha! I'm wondering if he will be a liability defensively. I suppose I'd look to have a more defensive CM on that side as I'd have an aggressive WB?

Yep! And then you have your WP using the space your CM is not using because he is playing more conservatly. And your WB compensating two things: the speed your WP lacks and the space he lefts vacated in the wing.

smeagoltonez · June 22, 2022

2 minutes ago, bosque said:

Yep! And then you have your WP using the space your CM is not using because he is playing more conservatly. And your WB compensating two things: the speed your WP lacks and the space he lefts vacated in the wing.

Thanks @bosque Believe it or not, I was actually considering these very things too. Looks like I'm finally 'getting it'!

bosque · June 22, 2022

hace 22 minutos, smeagoltonez dijo:

Thanks @bosque Believe it or not, I was actually considering these very things too. Looks like I'm finally 'getting it'!

It would help too if your best CB is on that side too. So he can deal better with the space left by the WB if a counterattack happen.

smeagoltonez · June 22, 2022

31 minutes ago, bosque said:

It would help too if your best CB is on that side too. So he can deal better with the space left by the WB if a counterattack happen.

Speed, positioning, anticipation & concentration would be key?

bosque · June 22, 2022

hace 35 minutos, smeagoltonez dijo:

Speed, positioning, anticipation & concentration would be key?

I'm not an expert with attributes, but I think those are very important yes. Brains + legs should help.

nugatti · June 23, 2022

16 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Also, would a slow WP be a problem? I'd look to have my fairly athletic WB overlap to compensate.

I think you are on to sensible changes, and regarding the WP there are two kinds of slow; Slow speed and slow passing.

It should not be a problem with slow speed as long as he gets into position to receive the ball quite often - anticipation and off the ball helps. The most important thing is his ability to get the ball forward at speed. I think this is where anticipation (again), decisions, first touch, technique (and flair?) comes into play.

Edited June 23, 2022 by nugatti

smeagoltonez · June 23, 2022

On 22/06/2022 at 19:48, bosque said:

I think you gave yourself the best answer.

9 hours ago, nugatti said:

I think you are on to sensible changes, and regarding the WP there are two kinds of slow; Slow speed and slow passing.

It should not be a problem with slow speed as long as he gets into position to receive the ball quite often - anticipation and off the ball helps. The most important thing is his ability to get the ball forward at speed. I think this is where anticipation (again), decisions, first touch, technique (and flair?) comes into play.

It's probably a good idea to prioritise a speedier play on the other wing? The guy I'd likely play is quick & most suited to playing as a defensive winger. I checked his positioning & like @dcayton9 says, it's further back. I figured that this would be a good option (on Support) as I plan to have a CM(A) on that side too.

Thanks again guys!

smeagoltonez · June 24, 2022

Ok so here's my latest 442:

Questions:

I've instructed my TF to tackle harder & press more often because he's very brave, aggressive & strong & a fairly hardworking team player too. Is it too much to have both forwards pressing aggressively?

Do I need the LCM on Defend duty or could I get away with (S) or should I opt for something like a DLP (S) so that he holds position but gives a bit more in offense? He's fairly decent on the ball.

Should I tell me LWB to 'stay wider' or will he do that anyway as a WB(S)?

My RCM has a good jumping reach for a CM at this level (14). Is there a way to tell the GK to distribute to a CM? And is this even a good idea?

Is my right wing too passive? My right sided full-back is fairly limited & I was actually considering making him my third (D) duty rather than the LCM but figured I needed one of the CMs to hold position if the other was making attacking runs.

Thanks guys!

nugatti · June 24, 2022

This looks more thought through imo.

TF pressing not sure, guess it depends on where you want to win the ball.

I'd give this a go and try to implement even more changes if the team does not perform.

Edited June 24, 2022 by nugatti

smeagoltonez · June 25, 2022

8 hours ago, nugatti said:

This looks more thought through imo.

TF pressing not sure, guess it depends on where you want to win the ball.

I'd give this a go and try to implement even more changes if the team does not perform.

Thanks for all of your help @nugatti, it's been much appreciated! I'm really excited to get going with my season now as I feel that I have a base tactic that suits my team & will allow me to slowly build.

A final question (for now anyway!) is whether it would be acceptable to play my CM(A) as a BBM(s) in this tactic?

I know that I should be looking to have 3 attacking players but his attributes are much better suited to being a BBM (with some being great for this level) & he has some good attacking player traits (see screenshot) that mean he will get into the box like a CM(a) anyway, right? Maybe I could also give him a PI to 'get further forward' too?

Essentially, I don't want to lose out on his good defensive skills when playing him as a CM(a). Would I lose anything by keeping him as a CM(a) or would his teamwork & positioning etc mean that he will get back defensively like a BBM anyway?

Thanks again!

dcayton9 · June 25, 2022

7 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Thanks for all of your help @nugatti, it's been much appreciated! I'm really excited to get going with my season now as I feel that I have a base tactic that suits my team & will allow me to slowly build.

A final question (for now anyway!) is whether it would be acceptable to play my CM(A) as a BBM(s) in this tactic?

I know that I should be looking to have 3 attacking players but his attributes are much better suited to being a BBM (with some being great for this level) & he has some good attacking player traits (see screenshot) that mean he will get into the box like a CM(a) anyway, right? Maybe I could also give him a PI to 'get further forward' too?

Essentially, I don't want to lose out on his good defensive skills when playing him as a CM(a). Would I lose anything by keeping him as a CM(a) or would his teamwork & positioning etc mean that he will get back defensively like a BBM anyway?

Thanks again!

The tactic looks really good, I think it should work well on the break and I like the defensive winger on the right providing pressure and getting crosses in. I think in your specific case a BBM would accomplish much of the same thing, solely because the PPMs that he has are so attacking already and all an attack duty would do is raise his individual mentality meaning he'd try more risky passes, take long shots, and other similar behaviors. The player is not great at these or at decision making, so I'm inclined to believe a BBM might work best. If the attack feels blunted after a while, maybe try out the TF as an attack duty or even switch the RM to winger attack then the RB to defend and the other CM to a support role but I think overall it's really well thought out.

Edited June 25, 2022 by dcayton9

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