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I love Portugal as I lived there for a couple of years almost a decade ago (getting old). I think it is 4 tiers in Portugal, at least that is what was playable in FM21 after the restructuring of the pyramid. There are smaller clubs in the Madeira and Azores islands if that's what you are after. 

Azores:

  • Praiense
  • Fontinhas
  • Rabo de Peixe
  • Sporting Ideal
  • Operario (my personal favorite because of colors and crest)

Madeira:

  • Camara de Lobos
  • Uniao da Madeira
  • Camacha

Alternatively you could go for Belenenses. Them and Boavista are the only two other clubs to have won the top division title outside the big three, but Belenenses are now languishing in the fourth tier. Their facilities will probably be quite decent.

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1 hour ago, corinthiano said:

I love Portugal as I lived there for a couple of years almost a decade ago (getting old). I think it is 4 tiers in Portugal, at least that is what was playable in FM21 after the restructuring of the pyramid. There are smaller clubs in the Madeira and Azores islands if that's what you are after. 

Azores:

  • Praiense
  • Fontinhas
  • Rabo de Peixe
  • Sporting Ideal
  • Operario (my personal favorite because of colors and crest)

Madeira:

  • Camara de Lobos
  • Uniao da Madeira
  • Camacha

Alternatively you could go for Belenenses. Them and Boavista are the only two other clubs to have won the top division title outside the big three, but Belenenses are now languishing in the fourth tier. Their facilities will probably be quite decent.

I went on a rugby tour with the school to Portugal and we stayed in Estoril but for years I have tried to find the stadium that we played at (Football stadium where you came out of the ground to enter the pitch above) and as a kid it blew me away. We were playing older age group and not sure if we played Portugal U21's or U19's but they were much older than us. Game was abandoned in a draw with out 5 mins left due to fighting. I have looked for this stadium online again and again but have never found it. 

If I had to bet money on it I would have bet it was Belenenses but the stadium and surrounding area looks very different now. It has probably been knocked down and something built over it. 

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23 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I went on a rugby tour with the school to Portugal and we stayed in Estoril but for years I have tried to find the stadium that we played at (Football stadium where you came out of the ground to enter the pitch above) and as a kid it blew me away. We were playing older age group and not sure if we played Portugal U21's or U19's but they were much older than us. Game was abandoned in a draw with out 5 mins left due to fighting. I have looked for this stadium online again and again but have never found it. 

If I had to bet money on it I would have bet it was Belenenses but the stadium and surrounding area looks very different now. It has probably been knocked down and something built over it. 

I lived really close to Estoril in Cascais - went to the casino there plenty of times!

Could it be the National Stadium? Think the teams enter it through the stairs on the bottom left of the picture. It is located in Oeiras (close to Estoril and really close to where I used to work) and hosts the Cup final as well as Rugby games. Interestingly it also hosts Belenenses SAD as of 2018. I wasnt aware of this but the original club and SAD (plc) split in 2018 - with the former keeping the history, stadium and logo, but having to restart as an amateur team in the sixth tier (this is why they are in the fourth tier now). The SAD got to keep a place in the first division but has to use a different logo and also relocated to the national stadium. Would actually make a really interesting story to take over Belenenses in the fourth tier and get them ahead of the plc again.

Estádio Nacional - Wikipedia

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On 29/09/2021 at 16:03, Jimbokav1971 said:

I'm looking for some inspiration for a Youth based save. Ideally in Portugal or Spain and ideally playable out of the box rather than waiting for an edited database. I want to manage a small club but there also needs to be something special/niche about them. 

Does anyone have any suggestions? 

C.D. Santa Clara are from the Azores so that interests me. 

I'm not even sure how many tiers are playable out of the box. is it just 2? 

What about Spain? Is that 2 too? I think it's 3 isn't it, but the 3rd tier is called the 2nd league or something? 

Arenas Club de Getxo are an option here. Founding member of La Liga fallen on hard times and are also Basque. 

FC Andorra, not just for the foreign status, but also because they are owned by Pique. 

UD Tamaraceite are in the Canary Islands

Anyone else spring to mind for any reason? 

 

Pretty sure Spain and Portugal are both playable down to the 4th tier after their restructures.

Plenty of clubs in Spain that could be interesting but Andorra are the only one I know who get newgens of another nationality. Wiki has maps showing where all the 4th tier clubs are based - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_Segunda_División_RFEF

There are two who share their border with Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla. Believe they both get Spanish newgens, so no real link to Africa in game.

One challenge could be to overtake Barca with Badalona, who are based immediately north east of Barcelona.

Another idea would be to manage a Basque club and only sign players from the area, aiming to one day challenge Athletic. There are several but I remember Sestao River Club, I managed them on one of the early FMs. At the time on the game all Basque clubs had the same restrictions as Athletic, all I could do was fight against relegation.

There was a club who were owned by a conspiracy theorist, hence renaming them Flat Earth FC. It seems they've been taken over again and become a reserve team for another club.

You've also got the Balaeric Islands where there are a few clubs that'll be playable, including the smaller of the Ibiza clubs. A good choice if you're a fan of Harry Enfield. Bonus points if you sign players named Kevin and Perry.

Top 30 Kevin And Perry GIFs | Find the best GIF on Gfycat

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29 minutes ago, Scoham said:

Pretty sure Spain and Portugal are both playable down to the 4th tier after their restructures.

Plenty of clubs in Spain that could be interesting but Andorra are the only one I know who get newgens of another nationality. Wiki has maps showing where all the 4th tier clubs are based - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021–22_Segunda_División_RFEF

There are two who share their border with Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla. Believe they both get Spanish newgens, so no real link to Africa in game.

One challenge could be to overtake Barca with Badalona, who are based immediately north east of Barcelona.

Another idea would be to manage a Basque club and only sign players from the area, aiming to one day challenge Athletic. There are several but I remember Sestao River Club, I managed them on one of the early FMs. At the time on the game all Basque clubs had the same restrictions as Athletic, all I could do was fight against relegation.

There was a club who were owned by a conspiracy theorist, hence renaming them Flat Earth FC. It seems they've been taken over again and become a reserve team for another club.

You've also got the Balaeric Islands where there are a few clubs that'll be playable, including the smaller of the Ibiza clubs. A good choice if you're a fan of Harry Enfield. Bonus points if you sign players named Kevin and Perry.

Top 30 Kevin And Perry GIFs | Find the best GIF on Gfycat

There is an ex Barnet, (and Charlton) player playing for Andorra at the moment, (Ruben Bover), and of course they are now owned by Pique, so that is an attractive option. 

I've done French Basque before, (and loved it), but yeah, Basque only anywhere is right up my street. 

I've never heard of Badalona so that idea is certainly an option. :thup:

If I'm going to go for an Island club it would probably be Santa Clara (Azores the Western most European club), and something on Tenerife will presumable the Southernmost in Europe, (although Israel might have something to say about that).  

A few weeks ago I was almost nailed on to manage in Portugal in FM22, but after this recent Barca thing, Spain is looking decent too. 

I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Portugese football though, (and that's really attractive). 

Nacional are on Madeira but perhaps a little too big and high up for my liking. 

I did a short-term save, (with FM20 I think), where i tried to set records for red and yellow cards, and I have stumbled across CF Canelas 2010 who look quite interesting in that respect.

f6aa470a0a895fe3ac2fe8aa278799eb.png 

Their owner also seems to be.... interesting. 

8beea6390c46bc393e7703a3ab9370c3.png

I've never heard of CHEGA. While I absolutely DO NOT share their political views, it might be an interesting backdrop for a save. 

74d482ec7a41b28b2ab89a1a8dc7b9b9.png

Sanjoanense are another based on Madeira.

Mourinho's Dad once managed..... Amora FC and got them into the top flight. 

FC Oliveira do Hospital are surely not a Hospital team. (Are they a hospital team?) :lol:

There is a Chinese owned club called Oriental Dragon playing in the 3rd tier in Portugal. :eek:

It's hard to find info about the Portugese 4h tier. I bet there are some absolute beauts in there!

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2 minutes ago, Scoham said:

Zealand (FM Youtuber) manages Oriental Dragon. I think they get Chinese newgens.

I've heard of him, (not a fan), but I know hoe big he is so it's unlikely to be a common save and all Chinese Newgens is actually rubbish. 

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9 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

If I'm going to go for an Island club it would probably be Santa Clara

Pretty sure Angrense, Praiense or Operario are more nicer challenges than a club in European competitions already. Heck I have not checked the leagues but you might even have a couple of clubs from the smaller islands of the arhipelago, that would be dope.

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1 hour ago, Muttley84 said:

Pretty sure Angrense, Praiense or Operario are more nicer challenges than a club in European competitions already. Heck I have not checked the leagues but you might even have a couple of clubs from the smaller islands of the arhipelago, that would be dope.

Absolutely. :thup: 

Rather than Santa Clara FC I meant the Azores as a whole. Until I know what clubs are playable it's hard to decide based on such limited knowledge of both Spain and Portugal. 

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1 hour ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Absolutely. :thup: 

Rather than Santa Clara FC I meant the Azores as a whole. Until I know what clubs are playable it's hard to decide based on such limited knowledge of both Spain and Portugal. 

Actually did a bit of research on this a while back, I think the smallest island team with added leagues would either be Graciosa or Luzense. In Spain you have Valle Frontera who play on the island of El Hierro south east of Tenerife.

And since you mentioned Israel, the southernmost team in Israel and therefore mainland Europe is Bnei Eilat FC who I think are in the 3rd or 4th tier.

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6 hours ago, Makoto Nakamura said:

Actually did a bit of research on this a while back, I think the smallest island team with added leagues would either be Graciosa or Luzense. In Spain you have Valle Frontera who play on the island of El Hierro south east of Tenerife.

And since you mentioned Israel, the southernmost team in Israel and therefore mainland Europe is Bnei Eilat FC who I think are in the 3rd or 4th tier.

I had my heart set on Portugal....

What do you know? Please share. I'm looking for inspiration. :lol:

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12 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I had my heart set on Portugal....

What do you know? Please share. I'm looking for inspiration. :lol:

If your heart is set on Portugal then in the 4th tier then I'd probably say G.D. Fontinhas or Angrense on Angra do Herosimo.

If you got incredibly lucky then you could get Sport Clube Maritimo or Sporting Clube de Guadalupe from the island of Graciosa to get promoted to the 4th tier. Fayal are located on the island of Horta which is further south east but is triple the population of Graciosa. I'm judging this based on the teams from FM21 though so there could be a couple of changes.

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I hope I won't derail your discussion too much, but I'd like to share the video of our game on Sunday:

It felt like we were playing much worse than we actually did, I watched the video and was quite impressed. :D We've made a lot of progress in terms of movement off the ball, I loved some of the runs in behind, shame they didn't get proper service. Still a lot of work to be done, especially with decision making, but we're moving in the right direction.

Edited by Rikulec
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8 hours ago, Rikulec said:

I hope I won't derail your discussion too much, but I'd like to share the video of our game on Sunday:

It felt like we were playing much worse than we actually did, I watched the video and was quite impressed. :D We've made a lot of progress in terms of movement off the ball, I loved some of the runs in behind, shame they didn't get proper service. Still a lot of work to be done, especially with decision making, but we're moving in the right direction.

What age group is this and which team is yours? 

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Gutted we won't have FMT on PC this year. Unless I want to subscribe to Game Pass to play FMXbox on PC (and I dont), guess this will be the first time in 15 yrs I dont buy a new FM. Well, it was nice meeting you guys...

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I'm going to try and force myself back to here for FM22 with a few different ideas.  One I'm quite interested in is a proper real-time save where I essentially cover one single season alone with updates purely covering that day.  Obviously won't be the main save, as very little is going to happen, but maybe interesting as an experiment for documenting.

So, my question to all of you, what would be the ideal club to do something like this with?  Personally I've always gotten on best with smaller leagues with less games to play, but that's obviously not going to be ideal for a save like this as far less would happen.  Brazil would then arguably be the best, as they play something like 583 games a season, but I know far less about the country and the football, so I can add less colour.  I thought maybe the Scottish Leagues, but ideally you'd want a side in European competition to give that extra edge, and...well, that would mean Rangers or Celtic.  Eurgh.  English leagues may end up being the best option, but I usually hate the long, boring, financially over-inflated seasons there.  Maybe the Championship with the longer and more hectic seasons?  Final option could be just to wait until the proper release and get my hands on the editor, then build the situation I'm happy with.  

Anyone have any suggestions?

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15 minutes ago, forameuss said:

I'm going to try and force myself back to here for FM22 with a few different ideas.  One I'm quite interested in is a proper real-time save where I essentially cover one single season alone with updates purely covering that day.  Obviously won't be the main save, as very little is going to happen, but maybe interesting as an experiment for documenting.

So, my question to all of you, what would be the ideal club to do something like this with?  Personally I've always gotten on best with smaller leagues with less games to play, but that's obviously not going to be ideal for a save like this as far less would happen.  Brazil would then arguably be the best, as they play something like 583 games a season, but I know far less about the country and the football, so I can add less colour.  I thought maybe the Scottish Leagues, but ideally you'd want a side in European competition to give that extra edge, and...well, that would mean Rangers or Celtic.  Eurgh.  English leagues may end up being the best option, but I usually hate the long, boring, financially over-inflated seasons there.  Maybe the Championship with the longer and more hectic seasons?  Final option could be just to wait until the proper release and get my hands on the editor, then build the situation I'm happy with.  

Anyone have any suggestions?

I'd say the Vanarama National. Hard to get out of, lots of games.

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Yeah, my issue with England is more with the Premier League.  Haven't gone lower leagues for a long time, maybe even with "fake" players too to break a wee bit more from reality.

I'm edging towards holidaying to the actual date in real life, but a year forward.  November 9th is release, so add a manager to a team on November 9th 2022, which gives the World Cup for a bit more "colour" during the season.

It'll probably be utterly tedious, but let's see.

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19 hours ago, forameuss said:

I'm going to try and force myself back to here for FM22 with a few different ideas.  One I'm quite interested in is a proper real-time save where I essentially cover one single season alone with updates purely covering that day.  Obviously won't be the main save, as very little is going to happen, but maybe interesting as an experiment for documenting.

So, my question to all of you, what would be the ideal club to do something like this with?  Personally I've always gotten on best with smaller leagues with less games to play, but that's obviously not going to be ideal for a save like this as far less would happen.  Brazil would then arguably be the best, as they play something like 583 games a season, but I know far less about the country and the football, so I can add less colour.  I thought maybe the Scottish Leagues, but ideally you'd want a side in European competition to give that extra edge, and...well, that would mean Rangers or Celtic.  Eurgh.  English leagues may end up being the best option, but I usually hate the long, boring, financially over-inflated seasons there.  Maybe the Championship with the longer and more hectic seasons?  Final option could be just to wait until the proper release and get my hands on the editor, then build the situation I'm happy with.  

Anyone have any suggestions?

I think you want a team where both promotion and relegation are an issue, (so not a top league), and I also think you want to be "busy", so a league with lots of fixtures is a must. 

The National League is ridiculously strong this season, (and ridiculously competitive), so I would really recommend that you give someone a go in there. 

Wrexham are owned by the Hollywood duo and have ploughed so much money in that they were able to entice the top scorer from League 2 last season, (who was promoted to League 1), to effectively drop down 2 divisions!!!). 

Then there is an established group of "Big" clubs such as Daggers, Halifax, Chesterfield & Notts Co who should all expect to be competitive and Stockport for example have about 6 strikers who would all expect to start for teams in League 2, Rooney, Madden, Jennings, Reid, Quigley & Maynard, (who has subsequently gone out on loan) 

Then you have the smaller clubs who are actually at the top of the table at the moment in real life. Grimsby, (although not small for this level), Boreham Wood, Bromley & Solihull Moors. 

Looking at the bottom of the table, Barnet, (my team), have been an absolute shambles for a few years now and must be the most under-performing team in the Country. People laugh about Watford changing managers but Barnet have had so many managers over the last decade that it's honestly hard to keep track. 

I think that since the start of 2011, (so 11 years ago), we have had 19 official changes in management, but I can count at least another 7 short term appointments during that period meaning that we have had 26 different appointments in 11 years, (at an average of 2.4 managers a season). Since the start of the 2020/21 season, we have had 9 different people managing the club for 52 competitive fixtures and each appointment has lasted on average 5.8 games. On the plus side we boast some of the best facilities at this level, (and for a few levels above). We are just being run by an incompetent fool. Maybe managing Barnet is the ultimate challenge?

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I've been looking at ideas for my saves for FM22 but again its very much a continuation from FM19/20/21. 

  • Another return to Africa - after saves with Ashanti Gold and Astres and the domination that follows a return to Africa with a smaller nation like Guinea-Bissau or Gambia, certainly a nation that has links with another European nation (Guinea-Bissau and Portugal for example). 
  • Another return to Western Asia - saves in Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan were thoroughly enjoyable, maybe Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan with the former in European compeition more appealing. 
  • Level 10/11 of England - a recent holiday in Cornwall (staying in St Agnes) has wet my lips for another slog in the lower leagues. I did level 11 with Hellesdon (in Norwich). St Agnes is another level 11 club or I could plump for my current home town of Watton (in Norfolk) in the Anglian Combination leagues.
  • I've been trying to research the small Italian islands in the med, between Sicily and Tunisia, there's an island which is popular with immigrants entering Europe but I can't find reference to a club on that island. 
  • Central America, it draws me in but I can never get into a save. Costa Rica or Guatemala maybe. 
  • Or could it finally be time to have a save in Mexico :D at least this save would be out of the box.
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1 hour ago, ToMexico!! said:

I've been looking at ideas for my saves for FM22 but again its very much a continuation from FM19/20/21. 

  • Another return to Africa - after saves with Ashanti Gold and Astres and the domination that follows a return to Africa with a smaller nation like Guinea-Bissau or Gambia, certainly a nation that has links with another European nation (Guinea-Bissau and Portugal for example). 
  • Another return to Western Asia - saves in Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan were thoroughly enjoyable, maybe Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan with the former in European compeition more appealing. 
  • Level 10/11 of England - a recent holiday in Cornwall (staying in St Agnes) has wet my lips for another slog in the lower leagues. I did level 11 with Hellesdon (in Norwich). St Agnes is another level 11 club or I could plump for my current home town of Watton (in Norfolk) in the Anglian Combination leagues.
  • I've been trying to research the small Italian islands in the med, between Sicily and Tunisia, there's an island which is popular with immigrants entering Europe but I can't find reference to a club on that island. 
  • Central America, it draws me in but I can never get into a save. Costa Rica or Guatemala maybe. 
  • Or could it finally be time to have a save in Mexico :D at least this save would be out of the box.

Maybe the answer is Mexico out of the box followed by something lower down elsewhere.

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8 hours ago, ToMexico!! said:

I've been looking at ideas for my saves for FM22 but again its very much a continuation from FM19/20/21. 

  • Another return to Africa - after saves with Ashanti Gold and Astres and the domination that follows a return to Africa with a smaller nation like Guinea-Bissau or Gambia, certainly a nation that has links with another European nation (Guinea-Bissau and Portugal for example). 
  • Another return to Western Asia - saves in Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan were thoroughly enjoyable, maybe Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan with the former in European compeition more appealing. 
  • Level 10/11 of England - a recent holiday in Cornwall (staying in St Agnes) has wet my lips for another slog in the lower leagues. I did level 11 with Hellesdon (in Norwich). St Agnes is another level 11 club or I could plump for my current home town of Watton (in Norfolk) in the Anglian Combination leagues.
  • I've been trying to research the small Italian islands in the med, between Sicily and Tunisia, there's an island which is popular with immigrants entering Europe but I can't find reference to a club on that island. 
  • Central America, it draws me in but I can never get into a save. Costa Rica or Guatemala maybe. 
  • Or could it finally be time to have a save in Mexico :D at least this save would be out of the box.

Whatever saves you do I look forward to see you post about them. 

I am thinking of doing a Central African league save and try improve the National team.

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Alright you lot, how're you getting on?

I've spent a day or so trying to calm a few nerves on Twitter over the news that FM Touch is going, and talking up how enjoyable the Xbox Edition is on a laptop. It's absolutely sod's law that I'm now getting a "We couldn't sign you in to Xbox Live. Please try later" error message in a loop, so I can't play the game. I feel like setting my laptop on fire. 

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  •  

image.thumb.png.2c3ebc5a4385d09b12bf57437813d60c.png

I just don't get it. I'm *clearly* signed in to the Xbox app on my laptop when I launch the game, so it makes no sense at all why there'd be a problem at the homescreen of the game itself. 

I've followed every piece of advice I could find online, which is mostly about updating everything and anything, but no change. I'm getting no kind of response from Xbox themselves, so I'm totally stuck with a game I can't play. 

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47 minutes ago, withnail316 said:
  •  

image.thumb.png.2c3ebc5a4385d09b12bf57437813d60c.png

I just don't get it. I'm *clearly* signed in to the Xbox app on my laptop when I launch the game, so it makes no sense at all why there'd be a problem at the homescreen of the game itself. 

I've followed every piece of advice I could find online, which is mostly about updating everything and anything, but no change. I'm getting no kind of response from Xbox themselves, so I'm totally stuck with a game I can't play. 

I've now downloaded a different game from gamepass, which works without an issue. So it's clearly FM related, but I'm utterly stuck as to how I solve it. 

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On 07/10/2021 at 12:22, Muttley84 said:

Gutted we won't have FMT on PC this year. Unless I want to subscribe to Game Pass to play FMXbox on PC (and I dont), guess this will be the first time in 15 yrs I dont buy a new FM. Well, it was nice meeting you guys...

You don't have to subscribe to Game Pass. You can buy the game as normal, you just need to buy the Xbox edition. 

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On 09/10/2021 at 19:16, withnail316 said:

Alright you lot, how're you getting on?

I've spent a day or so trying to calm a few nerves on Twitter over the news that FM Touch is going, and talking up how enjoyable the Xbox Edition is on a laptop. It's absolutely sod's law that I'm now getting a "We couldn't sign you in to Xbox Live. Please try later" error message in a loop, so I can't play the game. I feel like setting my laptop on fire. 

I am a classic/touch PC player, the great thing about playimg it on PC was you could lift the limitations, so you could play for unlimited amount of seasons and load as many nations as you want, from what I have read the nations limit will be 10 , not sure about number of seasons though, if it is the 30 seasons and that is it....then that kills it for me.

I have already said in another thread that I don't want Xbox Edition for PC, yeah yeah I say that but.....................................................I will always be tempted by new game though, I often purchase the full fat version, in fact 19 is the only full fat version I don't have, since I started playing FM (2010).

My other recent posts....

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Maw74 said:

I am a classic/touch PC player, the great thing about playimg it on PC was you could lift the limitations, so you could play for unlimited amount of seasons and load as many nations as you want, from what I have read the nations limit will be 10 , not sure about number of seasons though, if it is the 30 seasons and that is it....then that kills it for me.

I have already said in another thread that I don't want Xbox Edition for PC, yeah yeah I say that but.....................................................I will always be tempted by new game though, I often purchase the full fat version, in fact 19 is the only full fat version I don't have, since I started playing FM (2010).

My other recent posts....

 

 

 

 

My understanding is that the 30 year rule only applies if you want to play the Xbox Edition on an Xbox. On the PC you're fine to go beyond that. 

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On 15/10/2021 at 17:54, Makoto Nakamura said:

6f314d8dda1929a5c974473bf25407fa.png

Fans of youth only challenges this is for you. :D

THIS IS AMAZING !!!! One of the things now that wants me to buy FM 22 

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On 15/10/2021 at 22:15, Makoto Nakamura said:

It definitely means I'll be visiting San Marino and/or Bhutan for a Youth Only save in FM22.

I thought that San Marino Calcio produced Italian newgens now, but someone told me the other day there is a completely new club that produces Sammarinese newgens. 

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2 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I thought that San Marino Calcio produced Italian newgens now, but someone told me the other day there is a completely new club that produces Sammarinese newgens. 

I mean I'll be managing San Giovanni in San Marino and not the new Sammarinese club in the Eccelenza. Not managed in San Marino since my epic save on I think FM16.

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10 minutes ago, withnail316 said:

I'm still playing FM13, so you'll be fine on 21 :lol:

Haha awesome.

I figured that would be the case as I was mucking around in FM16 not too long ago, then came into FM21 pretty late.

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10 hours ago, Scoham said:

If anyone's looking for something new the Latvian league is now a playable league out of the box.

This is where I've started last night just to get to grips. I didn't even know it was going to be added to the game. 

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