Will the DRM on FM 09 stop you from buying the game?

[r0x0r]

No.

It's not as friendly as I'd like. I am in the Gamers bill of Rights camp. If we have to jump through hoops, give us something back in return. Let us download the game if we lose the physical CD. With steam, this is an option. with normal online verification, it isn't. Now, I'll probably download Steam and test it with the demo, see how much difference having it in the background makes to the game speed. If it's noticable, even slightly, I won't be using steam though.

So why not let us tie our other activation method to our Sega pass, so if we lose the disk we can either request a new one (without a new cd key) or download the executable?

That said, SI's methods do seem to be fairly compatable to the bill of rights. It should certainly serve as inspiration to the rest of the industry. It's not as good as I'd like, but it's a step closer than the majority.

I bought Spore, but it will be the last EA pc game using the extreme version of Securerom I buy. It'll also be the last game not made by SI that I buy on release day, as it was also a terrible game despite the hype.

Football Manager though? I'll buy. If it's all as unobtrusive as we're being told, then I'll happily buy FM10, FM 11 and FM12 too. All I'd ask is that they don't rest on their laurels, and instead fight to make the DRM method more customer friendly every year.

In an ideal world? You'd log in to segas website and run a small program that gives your PC's unique code, based on your hardware. If the PC matches up to one pre-confirmed official install locations, it'll let you either reauthorise without taking a credit (as it's a machine that's officially authorised without an uninstall) or download the game if you've lost or scratched the DVD. If it's not a pre authorised machine based on that hardware profile, it'll either allow you to authorise it or inform you that you've used your limit. In the "used your limit" case, I'd say maybe have a 6th "temporary authorisation" slot? It'll authorise the game for one week, once. To get this 1 week slow back, you have to contact SEGA, jump through any of their hoops and get one of your 5 slots emptied. They will then also reset your 1 week temp auth. Try to temp auth again before freeing this slot up, on the same machine or another, and it'll simply turn you down.

[Arctic Fish]

I should first reply to the original question: no, DRM won't stop me from buying FM09.

For me personally, having to authenticate is much less of a hassle than putting in the DVD every time, and five installs is more than I could conceivably need.

However, on a more conceptual level I'm very disappointed in the direction taken; with companies dictating where and how I can install and play my game. (Essentially saying that it's not my game; I "bought the right to play it on as many machines as they'll allow".)

Ok, that's a bit harsh, and like I said above I'll buy the game and I'm unlikely to run into these limitations in practice. But I have to say that this system leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth: it's a matter of principle, and while I won't let that stop me from buying the game, I don't like it either. I just wished they had made a statement like Stardock and gone the way of "Sins of the Solar Empire"...

The funny thing is that SI is trying to convince us that this DRM is a really good thing. They start out by saying they have learned from the SecuROM debate, and then they present their DRM solution that contains all the same restrictions that make people hate SecuROM. Only difference is that SecuROM needs a separate uninstaller.

I just have to reply to this. While I don't want to comment on whether FM09's DRM is more or less intrusive than say Spore's, (there's already enough debate about that on these forums and I'm not well-informed enough to add anything to that), I have to say that it's a huge blunder by SI to use a system that on the surface looks so much like the 'bad' DRM, with install-limits and authentication. It simply suggests that whoever made the decision had no understanding of crowd psychology: while every single fan of the game could be very smart, crowds tend get reduced to lowest common denominators and anything resembling the 'bad' DRM can cause a serious movement, as seems to be happening at the moment.

An example: It seems like the number of people saying they won't buy the game because of DRM seems to have leveled around 16-17%, i.e. one in six people. Now, probably many of these will end up buying the game anyway, or maybe wouldn't have bought it in any case, so let us estimate the previous number down a bit, and say that some 5% of people who would have bought the game will not do so now. Let's assume that FM sells a million copies (surely an underestimate, though getting exact numbers is difficult), and further assume SI/SEGA gets a third of the price when someone buys a copy (other part going to the store, distribution, etc.)

This would mean that SI lost 1000 000 * (1/20) * £20 * (1/3) pounds, or some £300000.

(Of course I simply estimated all the numbers; however I tried to estimate down so the real number is probably quite a bit higher.) This might not be all that much compared to the total revenue, but it's still a lot of money, and simply because they chose a system that outwardly resembles the Spore DRM. (Again, I'm not qualified to comment whether it's truly close to Spore; I can only say that they seem very similar to a layman like me.)

[andyinuk]

Don't bother me at all. some of you are making a great deal about this for no reason

[andyinuk]

An example: It seems like the number of people saying they won't buy the game because of DRM seems to have leveled around 16-17%, i.e. one in six people. Now, probably many of these will end up buying the game anyway, or maybe wouldn't have bought it in any case, so let us estimate the previous number down a bit, and say that some 5% of people who would have bought the game will not do so now. Let's assume that FM sells a million copies (surely an underestimate, though getting exact numbers is difficult), and further assume SI/SEGA gets a third of the price when someone buys a copy (other part going to the store, distribution, etc.)

This would mean that SI lost 1000 000 * (1/20) * £20 * (1/3) pounds, or some £300000.

(Of course I simply estimated all the numbers; however I tried to estimate down so the real number is probably quite a bit higher.) This might not be all that much compared to the total revenue, but it's still a lot of money, and simply because they chose a system that outwardly resembles the Spore DRM. (Again, I'm not qualified to comment whether it's truly close to Spore; I can only say that they seem very similar to a layman like me.)

if there is no anti-piracy measure, SI and Sega would have lost a lot more money. A lot more people would simply borrow the game from their mate rather than buying it.

[Samsung]

Huge issue I see... I have a desktop and laptop so probably only install it twice... If some of my

friends want to use it I'll probably lend it to them... Is that bad/ not allowed? Like seroiusly, if

your mate asks to borrow the game for a while, you really cant say no right? I wouldnt ever like

be a tightarse and collect money with my mates like 5 of us or something and buy the game

together no nothing. I'd still buy it and if one or two of me mates wanna just borrow off me

I most probably would say yes... Wouldnt every in this forum with a friend agree? Or am I a rare

good Samuriten these days?

[TheOriginalJez]

Very much not allowed. That's what we call 'stealing'. The 5 installs are intended for personal use and licensed as such.

[Arctic Fish]

if there is no anti-piracy measure, SI and Sega would have lost a lot more money. A lot more people would simply borrow the game from their mate rather than buying it.

Could you quantify that a bit, as that seems to be the main argument for the system, and I just don't know how well it holds water:

- If there was no anti-piracy measure, maybe it's true and pirates would be rampant. But what about the system we've had for the past N years, with N being a large number, i.e. CD (or DVD) in the drive. Hardly anyone objected to that, and there certainly wasn't such an uproar on these forums about that method. So it probably didn't drive people away like this method does.

- The new system seems to allow for what you suggested much more than the old system. With no need for the DVD and 5 installs, it's much easier to lend the game to your mate than it was back when the CD was needed. (Of course you could somehow get around the copy protection and make a copy of the CD for your mate, but that at least would have taken some doing. Now it's much easier to "distribute to your mates".

-> Actually, if SI/SEGA can supervise where and when a given copy is played they might be able to put a stop to that sort of distribution. But that would require that FM09 sends information periodically to SI/SEGA, and with SI saying the new method respects ones privacy, that seems like a public relations disaster and would just strengthen the opposition to the DRM.

- And as a final point, games like Sins of a Solar Empire seem to do well, even with policies that could be misused by evil pirates; apparently the number of good, law-abiding people is large enough to support a good game.

[dankrzyz]

Don't bother me at all. some of you are making a great deal about this for no reason

I second that. Come on, people, just do it and get on with playing the game.

If some of my friends want to use it I'll probably lend it to them... Is that bad/ not allowed?

My own opinion, yes, that's not really fair to SI. Have your friends buy the program if they want to play it. The multiple licenses aren't meant to be freebies or handouts. For all the time spent with this community (meaning answering to YOU folks) and working on the game so diligently year after year, Miles & Company deserve fairness from their customers.

[pompeyfan]

Can't say I'm overly happy at the 5 install (unless uninstalled) restriction nor the having to activate everytime as just going from personal experience they could be a pain in the arse. Just last month I had a system crash that required a full reformat and I could only access my data to recover what wasn't backed up by using DOS so if FM09 had been on there I'd have waved goodbye to an install. Also I'm still playing old games from the 90's (Ultima VII complete, UFO: Enemy Unknown, CM2), what are the odds of still being able to activate FM09 10+ years down the line should I want to?

The possibility of system crashes wiping DRM and the risk of companies shutting down servers is the reason I buy and rip CD's for my MP3 player rather than use iTunes or other download sites, if games start going the same way I'll just stop buying them and go without.

[TheOriginalJez]

All is nicely summed up here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=53795

including the answers to your questions pompeyfan

[Samsung]

My own opinion, yes, that's not really fair to SI. Have your friends buy the program if they want to play it. The multiple licenses aren't meant to be freebies or handouts. For all the time spent with this community (meaning answering to YOU folks) and working on the game so diligently year after year, Miles & Company deserve fairness from their customers.

Yeah totally agree it is most definately unfair. HOWEVER come on if your mate asks you'll lend it to him

right? Anyways I'll most definately recommend my friends to buy the game and alot of them do. Just

some of me mates just wanna play for a little, not huge fans so they feel its not worth the dough for

playing just a couple of times right?

[MSCCG]

People can give slippery slope arguments and make as many analogies and examples or attack as many straw men as they like, but there is still no evidence to definitely push the argument either way.

Will encourage piracy? Good reasons are given - but - no proof. Nothing concrete to make anyone believe that as a fact.

Lower sales? Some people have stated that they have cancelled their preorder. Again, one or two people doing it is not a good enough indication to show a net decrease in sales. My counter example would be if more people bought the game because of more channels to obtain it and they like the game then there will be a NET increase in sales to counteract the effects of people not buying the game because of one reason. My proof is that we have seen threads where people are buying it in countries where FM is not sold.

Does nothing to the pirates cracking the game? You can cite examples all you like, but those are only examples. There is no proof that pirates can crack FM09 easily, and there is no indication that the DRM is to completely erase piracy. My counter example to this is "the aim of the DRM may just be to stall them for a while until people see the value in buying the game". It happened last year didn't it? People came on when they had a cracked game where the qualifications would be swapped around. It probably eventually got cracked, seeing as nobody comes on with that question anymore, but the fact is that it was stopped for a few months.

It is a lot of hassle/giving numerous examples of people who won't be able to install it - this is actually the best argument I would say, but again, we don't have solid evidence for that, all that's been given are examples, and the ones that are more plausible that the weakest ones. Counter-example: The authentication system can be done easily, and where some work will be needed this will expand user's knowledge of computers and DRM, this would also help people in the long run because the necessity of having internet/using phone to authenticate the game would urge people to join the FM community and expand the FM gaming experience.

The game is limiting - citing many implausible examples of why the 5x installations is limiting makes a poor argument.

In the future if we have to install the game we won't be able to because the servers will shut down. Horrible argument. Its almost (not technically anyway) a conspiracy theory.

The arguments for DRM are not so good either:

This will stop piracy. Nobody can say that definitely until the game is released. Counterexample - Sporestyle.

It is not much hassle to authenticate the game, because it is easy to do - We do not know how easy it would be to authenticate the game, no details have been given yet, too many assumptions makes this a poor argument.

The 5x limit is not limiting because you can get the installations back when you install them. That is a poor argument, and the many examples people have given should be enough to show it. Furthermore I would point out that putting a number on anything makes it limited. So YES it is not totally limiting, but it is definitely NOT complete freedom either.

The developers must protect their property etc etc - sure, however this does not definitely come to the conclusion (unless some very explicit suppressed premises are included) of "DRM must be implemented". It is irrelevant.

I find it very intriguing that I haven't read an argument on developers having increased sales due to less piracy while there are arguments of decreased sales due to it. Perhaps people have concluded that DRM is used to stop people from turning to the "dark side" rather than bringing people back from it? The motive for DRM then is slightly murky if this is the case.

I would say the arguments for are less weak (though by no means strong) than the arguments against. The quality of the game and the inner urge to support the developers and the continued work on the game wins out for me. What happens 5 years into the future or whatever does not have any effects on my judgment anyway, so I will be going ahead with my order of FM09, which I made yesterday. I also believe that SI have made a fairly safe middle-ground in DRM policy by:

1. Not having to be online every time you start the game like some other games do

2. Giving back installations as you uninstall them

3. Bonus of Not having to have the CD in the drive all the time

4. Having adequate customer support

5. Having multiple ways to authenticate, and multiple ways to buy the game

6. Making a kickass game

Finally my own personal opinion: I would not be surprised when FM10 comes out the nice guys at SI will surprise us by releasing a patch that will take away the DRM. And either way you feel about DRM, it is definitely not advantageous to make a decision based on hearsay and prejudices, or even past experiences that may be simlar but not identical. Keep an open mind, and I'm sure you will be able to make a rational decision in time.

[V1adimir]

Very important topic here!!! I hope game's publishers will change something about it if they don't want to lose some fair customers...

[fromthemachine]

Piracy killed one of SI's previous games, EHM, which had a pretty good fan base behind it. It's no wonder they take such measures.

Get used to DRM, folks. Most software will be housed online, rather than on your computer, in less than five years most likely. That includes operating systems, word processing, etc...it'll all be part of the same cloud. Then you won't own anything. You'll just rent access.

[kiwityke]

Piracy killed one of SI's previous games, EHM, which had a pretty good fan base behind it. It's no wonder they take such measures.

Get used to DRM, folks. Most software will be housed online, rather than on your computer, in less than five years most likely. That includes operating systems, word processing, etc...it'll all be part of the same cloud. Then you won't own anything. You'll just rent access.

This will be the day I stop buying any software...including FM09.

The DRM is not putting me off buying FM. The following things are tho:

1. The cost here in NZ its around $100 (thats anywhere from £30 to £50, dependent on exchange rate).

2. EB's idiocy. They don't do online pre-orders. This means to pre-order the game I have to drive to Richmond (the nearest store) which is a 3 hour round trip drive, to pre-order. Then another 3 hour drive to pick up the game. The cost in fuel would be another $50 to $60.

3. I don't have a credit card so can't buy online (ok thats my fault).

This means the game would cost me $160, and take a total of 6 hours driving to collect. Getting a pirated copy would be sooooo much easier, I wouldn't even have to leave the comfort of my own home. As it is I am going to wait and get the game the next time I have to go to Nelson, which will probably be close to christmas.

[lfc7]

This DRM thing i just play fm on my desktop in my house i dont play any other games on my pc so the fm disk is always in the drive so do i have to do this phone up or whatever stuff thanks

[Solid Gone]

Piracy killed one of SI's previous games, EHM, which had a pretty good fan base behind it. It's no wonder they take such measures.

Get used to DRM, folks. Most software will be housed online, rather than on your computer, in less than five years most likely. That includes operating systems, word processing, etc...it'll all be part of the same cloud. Then you won't own anything. You'll just rent access.

That is where I will draw my line in the sand.

I don't pay for any product unless I get a physical item in return, I point-blank refuse to download music, films etc, I want something tangible for my money...as do most other folks IME.

[SmurfDude]

I think the main reason some people are so against this new protection system is down to psychology, meaning they don't like being told how many times they are allowed to install software which they have legitimately bought. It's easy to get the feeling the paying customers are the ones being punished while those who pirate get none of the hassle or are in no way limited in how they can use it

It's understandable and it is annoying that there are so many people who steal just because they can get away with it while hiding behind their computers, which in turn harms the legitimate consumers

But to be honest that won't stop me buying FM, because that's my way of showing my support to SI, who quite frankly deserve it. An honestly, is £20 really that much to spend to get dozens of hours of entertainment? Me and my girlfriend spend more than that on an evening out for god sake

[Bren_D]

This DRM thing i just play fm on my desktop in my house i dont play any other games on my pc so the fm disk is always in the drive so do i have to do this phone up or whatever stuff thanks

That question has been answered many times in a good number of threads over the last 24 hours or so. Yup, you'll have to call or use one of the online methods before you are able to play the game if you are a PC user. If you have a Mac, the game will work as it has done in previous years and you'll need the disc in the drive each time you load the game up.

[jayahr]

Actually, I am more than happy with the generous content of the DRM

Indeed, when the game is playable on 5 PCs without a CD the chance of people installing it at their friends is higher than ever before (illegal no-CD cracks left out) because of the way they are dealing with DRM.

[MSCCG]

That is where I will draw my line in the sand.

I don't pay for any product unless I get a physical item in return, I point-blank refuse to download music, films etc, I want something tangible for my money...as do most other folks IME.

It is hard to think of intellectual property as something real isn't it? I have trouble myself and I have a heavy bias for it (I insisted on buying the dvd version instead of getting the online version much less hassle), but then I think of things like service, it doesn't give you anything physical but you have to pay for it anyway...

This will be the day I stop buying any software...including FM09.

The DRM is not putting me off buying FM. The following things are tho:

1. The cost here in NZ its around $100 (thats anywhere from £30 to £50, dependent on exchange rate).

2. EB's idiocy. They don't do online pre-orders. This means to pre-order the game I have to drive to Richmond (the nearest store) which is a 3 hour round trip drive, to pre-order. Then another 3 hour drive to pick up the game. The cost in fuel would be another $50 to $60.

3. I don't have a credit card so can't buy online (ok thats my fault).

This means the game would cost me $160, and take a total of 6 hours driving to collect. Getting a pirated copy would be sooooo much easier, I wouldn't even have to leave the comfort of my own home. As it is I am going to wait and get the game the next time I have to go to Nelson, which will probably be close to christmas.

I tried to get my copy from thehut, it's costing me around $70 this way (I'm 30% sure they have a postage payment kind of thing), assuming that it works. I went to EB and Gamesman every single weekend the month before FM08 came out and none of the employees even knew about the game, much less able to tell me when it was coming or even whether they will stock it. Needless to say they did not stock it at all, and since then I have given up buying FM in a store in NZ.

[Samsung]

Cant you buy it from another game store? They dont take phone orders in New Zealand?

[lfc7]

That question has been answered many times in a good number of threads over the last 24 hours or so. Yup, you'll have to call or use one of the online methods before you are able to play the game if you are a PC user. If you have a Mac, the game will work as it has done in previous years and you'll need the disc in the drive each time you load the game up.

Thanks

101010

[Neji]

It's beyond pathetic

I agree with you about moving over to piracy but I agree with them on the principle.

[Aussie King]

How do you authenticate cause I have no Idea:confused:

[Hamenaglar]

I planned to buy it. Actually saved most money needed to buy it, planned to start giving math instructions so I can come up for the rest of the money and pay bills I'll need to pay, but now, I'll probably not be buying it. It's a matter of principle.

[acidmonkey]

This is my only concern with the DRM

This was obviously a one off year regarding installs but:

Bought game put it on my PC for home use and Laptop for Use at uni - 2 INSTALLS

PC died with blue screen of death before getting to windows desktop so replaced most parts of pc no chance of uninstalling it - 3 INSTALLS

Hard Drive Died unable to do anything new HDD arrived put FM back on so - 4INSTALLS

Slipped on stairs Dropped laptop whole thing irrepairable so new laptop bought on insurance installed FM - 5 INSTALLS

basically i would be screwed if new laptop or PC died as i would have used all my "Tickets". is there anything that could be done to claim another install if pc or laptop breaks, or do i just have a £24 coaster?

[MSCCG]

How do you authenticate cause I have no Idea:confused:

You can do it online, when you install it the program should give you instructions

I planned to buy it. Actually saved most money needed to buy it, planned to start giving math instructions so I can come up for the rest of the money and pay bills I'll need to pay, but now, I'll probably not be buying it. It's a matter of principle.

I really need clarification on what this principle is to see what it is; I can't think of a broad enough principle to exclude all DRM and I need some enlightenment... :confused:

This is my only concern with the DRM

This was obviously a one off year regarding installs but:

Bought game put it on my PC for home use and Laptop for Use at uni - 2 INSTALLS

PC died with blue screen of death before getting to windows desktop so replaced most parts of pc no chance of uninstalling it - 3 INSTALLS

Hard Drive Died unable to do anything new HDD arrived put FM back on so - 4INSTALLS

Slipped on stairs Dropped laptop whole thing irrepairable so new laptop bought on insurance installed FM - 5 INSTALLS

basically i would be screwed if new laptop or PC died as i would have used all my "Tickets". is there anything that could be done to claim another install if pc or laptop breaks, or do i just have a £24 coaster?

From what I have gathered a quick email to the tech support should have your game back up and running without too much trouble. Also you should be worrying about your broken bones and horrible luck before FM lol.

[Solid Gone]

basically i would be screwed if new laptop or PC died as i would have used all my "Tickets". is there anything that could be done to claim another install if pc or laptop breaks, or do i just have a £24 coaster?

SI have said they will be open to helping folk out if they have a few disasters, so I assume they would give you another few "lives" if that sort of thing happened to you.

[VyLow]

i've gotten every single CM/FM title since CM3 including the foreign league (add-ons?)

but i don't think i'll be getting FM 09.

i'm sick of game companies giving me the middle finger for supporting them.

i got Mass effect without knowing that they had that DRM crap and it was the worst gaming decision i ever made.

i'm not getting Red Alert 3 because of that and any other game that comes with that DRM crap.

imagine Fallout 1 and 2 or Planescape:Torment having DRM how the hell would i be able to play the game now?

and if CM3 had it would i be able to play it?

since it would definitely have used up the DRM and god knows who is suppose to be giving support for that game.

[andysafc]

No need for piracy now anyway as you can technically get the game for FREE!

Buy the game from a retail shop, install it, authenticate it, then take it back to the shop and say you don't have internet connection and therefore unable to play the game. Unless it states clearly on the box that "Internet of phone access is required to install the game" then the shop will have no option but to refund you!

Of course it is WRONG but did pirates ever bother about that?

[profii]

There will always be pirates, there will always be (ineffective) copy protection

So i will just buy the game and play it. I have 1 PC and i don't format it so I will have no problems in theory.

[MSCCG]

No need for piracy now anyway as you can technically get the game for FREE!

Buy the game from a retail shop, install it, authenticate it, then take it back to the shop and say you don't have internet connection and therefore unable to play the game. Unless it states clearly on the box that "Internet of phone access is required to install the game" then the shop will have no option but to refund you!

Of course it is WRONG but did pirates ever bother about that?

I would say circumventing the law in this manner would be more morally reprehensible than piracy because you're stealing the game, and also screwing the guy who buys the game second hand. Oh and also screwing the shop for having to take the game back then sell it second hand. Wow. Also, when you go down the "if they do it why can't I" path, what's the moral reason you have for trying a loophole like that when you have just as much "rationality" to pirate it? Hm...

[Hamenaglar]

I really need clarification on what this principle is to see what it is; I can't think of a broad enough principle to exclude all DRM and I need some enlightenment... :confused:

First, this isn't the way to fight piracy. Actually it's counter-effective and created by stubborn people who only see the easy way out. For me to buy a product with this kind of protection on it would mean that I support this kind of protection, which I don't, therefor I'll not be buying it as long as this kind of protection is in.

Second, I will not be told how many times I'll be able to install the product I bought. If I bought it, it's rightfully mine and if I want to install it and format my disk and repeat that 10 times I should be able to do that, no matter how stupid that seems.

[Äktsjon Männ]

and if CM3 had it would i be able to play it?

since it would definitely have used up the DRM and god knows who is suppose to be giving support for that game.

Eidos is the company that should be supporting it. I would bet my left bollock though you'd get laughed in your face if you contacted their customer support about CM3 now.

As I said in the other thread, there simply is no way anyone can guarantee a service for unforeseeable future just like that. Won't stop me from purchasing FM 2009 though, it's already pre-ordered and I have no desire to cancel but I don't like these copy protection methods at all. And I certainly don't see the purpose when the game will be cracked within a week of release anyway.

On another note, why are people from SI voting on this poll? It's not like they need to buy the game anyway. Are some people desperate to make things look prettier than they actually are?

[Themistofelis]

All this mess only to keep their software protected for like 10 hours

I am not gonna buy it

keep on making youknowwho.de guys rich

[SCIAG]

DRM is not nearly as restrictive as people make it out to be.

I've installed 07 twice and 08 once in two years. Even allowing for accidents, I'd have a total of 7 installs of the two games combined left.

As for not being able to trade it in...

If you trade it in, then surely you'll have uninstalled and therefore have a disk with 5 lives?

[Äktsjon Männ]

As for not being able to trade it in...

If you trade it in, then surely you'll have uninstalled and therefore have a disk with 5 lives?

If you try to sell it, how can people be sure it's got those lives left? One might as well put the game up on sale having it installed on his and four of his friends' computers. No-one will want to buy this game second-hand.

[Themistofelis]

It isn't about restrictions , it is about SI treating you as a potential thief .

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

We may all be pleasantly surprised, and SI may have a great thing here that will become industry standard, however I cannot see beyond the bombardment of phone calls and probable registration delay from those that need to authenticate by phone, and if it leads to an unacceptable delay in playing the game the bad PA will be monumental I fear.

[JonPaulWild]

Piracy killed one of SI's previous games, EHM, which had a pretty good fan base behind it. It's no wonder they take such measures.

Get used to DRM, folks. Most software will be housed online, rather than on your computer, in less than five years most likely. That includes operating systems, word processing, etc...it'll all be part of the same cloud. Then you won't own anything. You'll just rent access.

I disagree with the fan base statement. I just don't see a hockey management game to be that big in the UK - maybe Canada or the USA, but not in the UK. Obviously, many here will not see that, but if a game is big enough in terms of popularity then it will live.

EHM wasn't popular enough for the UK market, and SI should still to Football themed games.

So many titles out there have been pirated have all come back with sequels and made money, so can't just blame piracy.

To be honest, this game could now easier to pirate among friends.

[miguel_zarabulo]

I dont understand why DRM is such a problem! How many people download music off itunes. This has all been blown way out of proportion. I'll still be buying and installing on the 1 computer I use to play FM on. Bring on the 14th November!

[MSCCG]

First, this isn't the way to fight piracy. Actually it's counter-effective and created by stubborn people who only see the easy way out. For me to buy a product with this kind of protection on it would mean that I support this kind of protection, which I don't, therefor I'll not be buying it as long as this kind of protection is in.

Second, I will not be told how many times I'll be able to install the product I bought. If I bought it, it's rightfully mine and if I want to install it and format my disk and repeat that 10 times I should be able to do that, no matter how stupid that seems.

"counter-effective and created by stubborn people who only see the easy way out" - I know this makes sense intuitively, but I can't just take your word for that.

" For me to buy a product with this kind of protection on it would mean that I support this kind of protection" - but, you're buying it in the plastic box, does that mean you support the destruction of the environment through wasted minerals and accumulated non-biodegradable material? And the paper, do you support the murdering of Brazilian rainforests and destruction of our planet? The chemicals used to print the cover, the waste that comes out of factories that are printing the covers, do you support that? The most you could say is that you are paying for it and you don't want to, but there's nothing there that's saying you support it.

"If I bought it, it's rightfully mine and if I want to install it and format my disk and repeat that 10 times I should be able to do that, no matter how stupid that seems" - I agree completely, but if say you bought a car you can't go driving into ditches all the time (it will be hurt), and if you buy a TV the warranty expires after 12 months, if it breaks you can't get it replaced anymore. In FM, they are giving you back installations when you uninstall it! I know there are many different combinations of ways it could work out badly, but its still not the end of the world. Getting the licences back would be a pain in the butt though. Either way, is this a big enough reason to not buy the game, due to a stubborn need to be "allowed" to do whatever you want?

As much as I am for sticking it to the man and all, doing it like this is kind of... Lame.

Anyway, I'm not starting a debate (I'm not for or against DRM, I'm only for Football Manager, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here) but even when you look at it rationally the principles seem to make sense when you assume all DRM is bad even before you give reasons why it is bad. Slightly question-begging. It could be a good exercise for everyone to think of something along the lines of "how would SI's DRM need to be to convince me to buy the game/have no bearing on my decision to buy the game?"

[furney89]

Everyone is forgetting one things:

BUY A MAC

they are so advanced, its not possible to use the latest DRM feature of 5 installs, so for now, MAC users have the old style that weve both had on PC and MAC for years

i really laughed when i heard one loser says that because of the DRM this year, he wasnt going to buy the game...GET A GRIP ...in 5 years you probably wont want to play the game anyway, who still plays CM03/04 or whatever?

SI are just trying to protect themselves, and although it doesn't affect me, i can see whats drove them to do it because games piracy on PC is a big issues and this helps them to a certain extent to protect themselves

[PGB_SPURS_FM09]

Its only a game! Just buy it if you like playing it! Thats the only reason you should have for buying or not buying it! If you like the game you buy and if you don't then you don't buy! Thats all i'm going to say lol so stupid why you wouldn't buy because of something that probably won't effect you much at all unless you have a disaster with 5 YES 5 Computer failures within the next year! OMG!

[Hamenaglar]

"counter-effective and created by stubborn people who only see the easy way out" - I know this makes sense intuitively, but I can't just take your word for that.

I am right. Take a look at who are the people who pirate games. Those aren't rich people, but usually kids with no income or folks in eastern europe where the standard is lower. Instead of making games more approachable to those kind of people it's easier to put DRM which affects only legit customers.

"" For me to buy a product with this kind of protection on it would mean that I support this kind of protection" - but, you're buying it in the plastic box, does that mean you support the destruction of the environment through wasted minerals and accumulated non-biodegradable material? And the paper, do you support the murdering of Brazilian rainforests and destruction of our planet? The chemicals used to print the cover, the waste that comes out of factories that are printing the covers, do you support that? The most you could say is that you are paying for it and you don't want to, but there's nothing there that's saying you support it

Wrong analogy. I take care of my plastic therefor if a product comes in a plastic box it doesn't matter it's up to me to take care of it and recycle it. Same for the paper, also trees can be replanted.

"If I bought it, it's rightfully mine and if I want to install it and format my disk and repeat that 10 times I should be able to do that, no matter how stupid that seems" - I agree completely, but if say you bought a car you can't go driving into ditches all the time (it will be hurt), and if you buy a TV the warranty expires after 12 months, if it breaks you can't get it replaced anymore. In FM, they are giving you back installations when you uninstall it! I know there are many different combinations of ways it could work out badly, but its still not the end of the world. Getting the licences back would be a pain in the butt though. Either way, is this a big enough reason to not buy the game, due to a stubborn need to be "allowed" to do whatever you want?

Again wrong analogy. I'm not throwing my cd in the ditches, I'm not being careless with physichal property. It's like they are limiting the amount of times I can start my car.

As much as I am for sticking it to the man and all, doing it like this is kind of... Lame.

Anyway, I'm not starting a debate (I'm not for or against DRM, I'm only for Football Manager, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here) but even when you look at it rationally the principles seem to make sense when you assume all DRM is bad even before you give reasons why it is bad. Slightly question-begging. It could be a good exercise for everyone to think of something along the lines of "how would SI's DRM need to be to convince me to buy the game/have no bearing on my decision to buy the game?"

I'm not against basic protection, but these kind of protections are pointless and mostly counter-effective as I've said. They only target legitimate customers and I do not want to be treated like a thief after spending my entire savings.

If you want to stop piracy then target pirats, no protection ever will stop piracy it's a negative approach. Why not try positive? Instead of fruitlessly trying to force pirates to buy games why not make it more affordable to them. Nobody ever tried.

[Terras-FM]

Cant really see why it will stop people playing.

[gcormack]

i dont think it will stop m buying the game but i might make me wait a few days before getting it because if it is a thing you have to download it will be mobbed on the first few days and if there are any problems then i havent just bought a game im gonna have to wait a bit longer to play while si sort it out.

[snootyjim]

It won't make a difference to me - I will buy it. What does disappoint me though, is that it's the same old story. We will go out and buy the game, then be saddled with this annoyance of having to activate it and so on.

Meanwhile, the scene will crack it, and all the people who don't want to pay for the game will download it for nothing, install it and play to their hearts' content, with no DRM to mess around with. Half my life people are asking me why I paid for Windows, Office, games and so on - if DRM doesn't prevent piracy, what is the point of it?

Nonetheless, as I said previously this has not put me off FM - I just can't see how it is going to be economically worthwhile to SI.

[presumingpete]

the thing about the drm that bugs me is that it will take about 2 weeks to crack the game and anyone who wants it illegally will have it. I know people on here have said things like there 15 times more pirates than legitimate owners - do we have any real statistics to show this?