ddidiodion Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 The "realistic" option seems to be do nothing. The squad is at least 3 major outfield additions away from being capable of doing anything in Europe and challenging for the title. Given the number of players we've bought over the last 2 years I suspect that another recruitment drive is the more realistic option, this time with fewer departures. Jones, Rojo, Januzaj, Carrick, Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Schweinsteiger, McNair and Lingard aren't going to be starting 35 games a season by the end of next season and it's possible Rooney won't be either. There's ample squad depth there but we're still massively short in terms of actual first team quality. All this is under the assumption that Depay comes good and Shaw returns his old self. With the best will in the world we're just not going to get 4-5 first team players from Lingard, Varela, Januzaj, Rashford, Pereira, CBJ, Wilson and TFM. 2 is optimistic, 1 is a fair return. We're very short on players of quality who are coming into their best years, that has to be addressed or I doubt even Mourinho will be putting up a title challenge against Guardiola's City and Conte's Chelsea's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 With the best will in the world we're just not going to get 4-5 first team players from Lingard, Varela, Januzaj, Rashford, Pereira, CBJ, Wilson and TFM. 2 is optimistic, 1 is a fair return. Very optimistic but I think we'll get 3. Lingard has shown enough to establish himself as a JOS/Park type, someone we can rotate in/use a lot with no worries. TFM I'm really impressed with and think he'll be first team regular next season, and Rashford seems to be getting better with each game. What works for these three is that there are loads of opportunities for them to play, but not so much with the others you've picked out (even though they're arguably just as talented). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren24 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Arsenal dropping 2 points.... We can take the game to Leicester ( :D maybe ) and potentially close the gap on City before they play. Arsenal however play the day before us and have the opportunity to get more points on the board beforehand. Would be great if we can better either Arsenal or Citys next result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid1984 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Well I always knew that if we win our remaining games, we will be in the top 4. Winning our games is now the main concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Very optimistic but I think we'll get 3. Lingard has shown enough to establish himself as a JOS/Park type, someone we can rotate in/use a lot with no worries. TFM I'm really impressed with and think he'll be first team regular next season, and Rashford seems to be getting better with each game. What works for these three is that there are loads of opportunities for them to play, but not so much with the others you've picked out (even though they're arguably just as talented). I mean actual consistent fixtures in the first team, not bit part players. There's no way in hell we're winning anything serious with Lingard as our first choice right winger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I mean actual consistent fixtures in the first team, not bit part players. There's no way in hell we're winning anything serious with Lingard as our first choice right winger. FA cup not serious enough? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 FA cup not serious enough? No Do you think winning the odd FA Cup in the next 5 years will be an adequate return? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 FA cup is kinda major but I agree, a solitary domestic cup in a 5 year stretch is dismal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Just watched the game. That was a classic FA Cup tie. I thought the West Ham game was proper cup stuff but that was a great watch. de Gea truly is amazing. Smalling had a really good match but that was horrible defending for the og. Went with completely the wrong foot. Carrick had a quality game. Fellaini even had a very good game, scored a goal, and despite giving the ball away in a poor position he made his way back and blocked a certain goal. He would have had a second if not for a handball. It was completely accidental from Jagielka imo but accidental doesn't always mean it shouldn't be a penalty. However, in this case, you can't blame the referee for not seeing it. Was never a penalty for TMF's challenge, was a great tackle. Great play from Martial for the goal as well, and a lovely finish. Lingard has not been good enough so if we can get someone on the right with the same ability as Martial and Rashford they could easily be a threesome that rips teams apart for years to come. Still plenty of moments where we were a bit of a shambles at the back, but hopefully that was just somewhat typical of it being an FA Cup semi final. Easily could have been 5 each at the end with better finishing from both sides. If we continue in the vein of the last few matches then it would be possible to see some sort of positive future, but so many times we've had a few games where the signs are there followed by a month of being back to **** again. Anyway, FA Cup final \o/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 FA cup is kinda major but I agree, a solitary domestic cup in a 5 year stretch is dismal. We could win 5 FA Cups in 5 years, we we don't win the CL or League in that time it's an abject failure. We win 3 titles in 5 years and no FA Cups and there will be a little bit of nostalgia, it's nice and a boost, but ultimately it's a garnish to the real stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Anyone think the should replace Lingard with Januzaj for a few games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryseaess Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 Anyone think the should replace Lingard with Januzaj for a few games? No, I think we should replace Lingard with Memphis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 So if we win all our remaining league games and there is a winner when Arsenal go to City and we get forth in place of the loser. Unless one of them fall apart and don't win their other games. And we have won 6 of our last 7 games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Can he play on the right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 nothing to see here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Anyone think the should replace Lingard with Januzaj for a few games? No, I think we should replace Lingard with Memphis. Nah to both. He should keep his place until the end of the season, when we can get a world class right winger and he can take his place as a useful squad player. Depay can't play on the right, his one trick doesn't work there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 What if we won it five years running? He's already answered that before you asked Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 What if we won it five years running? Without winning the league or the CL? I think you know the answer to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 He's already answered that before you asked Goddamn you quoting it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Goddamn you quoting it... Gotcha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Gotcha Can't you do some mod editing or something... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Yeah, a nice weekend for us all told having seen the Arsenal result. Win our game in hand and we're 2 points behind both Arsenal and City with 2 to play. GIH is against Leicester though so will be one hell of a tough win to earn. Shocking really that we still have a sniff of 4th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Can't you do some mod editing or something... To restore your original post? Sure can! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 what you will see is some changes namely a more humble man, :lol: Yeah, again, let's just ignore his entire career of pretty defensive football and pathetic behaviour. OF COURSE, when he becomes OUR manager, oooooh, he'll turn into fecking Jesus, Buddha and Gandhi at once. Maybe your and other's flutes will play a different tune when Mourinho rugly tackles the referee post-match after a late offside goal in a 0-1 loss to a Pep managed City or something. Unfortunately I fear he will become our next manager, but for the moment I can live in the hope that he won't. We have many talented youngsters, some already in the first team and others may well follow. But that door could easily close if Mourinho is the next manager. I don't want that to happen. I want to continue our proud tradition of promoting youth. And for all the talk of negative football under LVG, that will become even worse under Mourinho. It's understandable people want LVG gone given our pretty poor results. But don't then go on to dream about Mourinho playing flowing attacking football and becoming a humble man ffs. That. Will. Not. Happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Yeah, a nice weekend for us all told having seen the Arsenal result. Win our game in hand and we're 2 points behind both Arsenal and City with 2 to play. GIH is against Leicester though so will be one hell of a tough win to earn. Shocking really that we still have a sniff of 4th Game in hand is away against West Ham, midweek before the final round of fixtures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Palace in the final then. Will be pretty disappointing to not win it now, Palace have earned their place there and in a one off final you never know. Still ours to lose though, really. Pan, I think robbo might be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic hamper, and that's going off most of his posts not just that one. That one is pretty special though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Game in hand is away against West Ham, midweek before the final round of fixtures. Well I just always refer to our GIH as though it is our next game. Technically yes our GIH is West Ham away, and that is our toughest remaining fixture after Leicester, but I just look at it purely from the pov of us having a game in hand regardless of who it is against. At the end of the day, West Ham are one of four games we have left, and we have a GIH over them, so it doesn't matter which it technically is in that regard. Also, we play after Arsenal, but before City next weekend, so technically our GIH over City is Leicester Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid1984 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Who cares if Mourinho is a humble man or not if he brings us success. If you just want a humble man, probably best to have stuck with Moyes. The numbers don't lie, the goals his teams have scored shows he plays fairly attractive football combined with excellent results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Yeah, again, let's just ignore his entire career of pretty defensive football There was a really comprehensive post earlier that showed you were completely wrong about this. It doesn't suddenly become true if you say it more you know? You've even picked out the two reasons why there should be concerns about hiring Mourinho (classless behaviour and a dodgy youth policy), you don't need to add in something that has no factual basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I'm sort of just wanting Mourinho to be our next manager because of certain people in here, to be honest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 There was a really comprehensive post earlier that showed you were completely wrong about this. It doesn't suddenly become true if you say it more you know?You've even picked out the two reasons why there should be concerns about hiring Mourinho (classless behaviour and a dodgy youth policy), you don't need to add in something that has no factual basis. Some of his teams have scored goals, no doubt about that. But they have also usually played a defensive style. Sitting back and countering, wasting time, etc etc. It's simply the style that Mourinho typically employs. I'm not sure how anybody can doubt that, when it's what he has been criticised for year after year, also when he won the title with Chelsea recently. Suppose people already have him as our next manager in their heads, and the excuses and history rewriting is already in full swing. Then there is the concern about what happens at the end of his reign after 2-3 years, with half the squad in revolt and wanting to leave, with the other half struggling to crawl back from under the bus that he threw them under a bit too often. Results would probably improve, he's pretty adept at that negative football malarky while getting good results, as long as we ignore the complete meltdown this season in Chelsea, but lets not fool ourselves either. He is who he is, and that isn't going to change any time soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Pan So much hatred for Jose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Some of his teams have scored goals, no doubt about that. But they have also usually played a defensive style. Sitting back and countering, wasting time, etc etc. It's simply the style that Mourinho typically employs. I'm not sure how anybody can doubt that, when it's what he has been criticised for year after year, also when he won the title with Chelsea recently. Suppose people already have him as our next manager in their heads, and the excuses and history rewriting is already in full swing. Then there is the concern about what happens at the end of his reign after 2-3 years, with half the squad in revolt and wanting to leave, with the other half struggling to crawl back from under the bus that he threw them under a bit too often. Results would probably improve, he's pretty adept at that negative football malarky while getting good results, as long as we ignore the complete meltdown this season in Chelsea, but lets not fool ourselves either. He is who he is, and that isn't going to change any time soon. You mean all of them there don't you Pan... I know you know how to read. Nobody has rewritten history here, but you are ignoring it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid1984 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Put it this way, I'd MUCH prefer Mourinho than Pep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 The perception of Mourinho is that he is Mr Short Term & there is nothing about his career as a manager to suggest that isn't the case, he could secure a trophy or two but given the level of opposition next season that's nowhere near close to being a sure bet, what is a sure bet is that when he leaves after 2 seasons you're back at square one or even worse off than you are now. Tough call to make but if LvG is working to ensure that the academy graduates get to move into the senior squad & learn from a group positive experienced signings that might be the better long term option, even that's a short term option as the club like s & Utd need to look for a talent young head coach otherwise there is a risk that you'll be repeating the mistakes of the 70s & 80s, less the humiliating relegation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 This discussion seems to be a monthly occurence now, if not even more frequent. He's had great success where ever he's been, and this past season is certainly an exception to the rule, but it's gone so horribly wrong and really highlighted just what problems are there with him. I'm not at all for this talk of him being a defensive, boring manager at all, but other than that Pan seems to be talking sense. His record for giving youths a chance is pretty poor. From past experience he would likely be with us no more than 3 years, and if his most recent season is anything to go by, he could well leave us worse off than where we are now. The complete implosion of Chelsea this season I don't think can be written off. For a league winning side with players of the quality they have to fall off so dramatically is a huge concern. The man is completely classless, and in some ways quite immature. The whole Eva Carneiro thing was pathetic. He may prove a short term boost but I don't see him coming in and being a long term help to the club at all. What we need is stability and that is something I don't think you can ever have with Mourinho. As much as I want LVG out, the fact I can't say I'd happily take Mourinho over him says it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I agree with everything thats said about Jose, apart from Pan thinking he doesn't play attacking football. As has been said he goes defensive when the game calls for it. Either from being the part of the season or the opposition is stronger. He wins games. What I do think however is that in the right environment he could change. And it's not like the club don't know about his past and can't set guidelines regarding behaviour and youth policy etc before they hire him. But don't think we have to worry about it, as LVG is staying. Yay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Race 9 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 gizzy all spot on...apart from those last few words:lol: sure you are wrong there and we can all sleep easily soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 all this 1990 and the cup saved Fergies career yes.. but he didn't plan on leaving 1 year later, even if LvG was saved by winning he FA cup.. the fact he is only staying 1 year means winning the FA cup should mean nothing in the regard to his job. he has been dire, Jose is there, available and it seems silly to pass him up for 1 year of dire football and there then be no one of any credit available leaving us with Giggs, or paying silly money for Pochettino LvG wants the FA cup and has said so already, no matter where he finishes he should stay to win that final, then leave for Jose. Jose as Mr short term? he has wanted this job since before Fergie retired, there is no reason he can not stay here for a long time if he did come, and promote youth? there is no reason not to given the available talents, and isn't one of his main targets an 18 year old? given his record it seems silly to dismiss him coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Race 9 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 the days of getting a manger in who will stay for decades is gone so someone coming in for 3-5 years is a long time now the perceived top mangers don't seem to stay anywhere for more than 3 years now and so that what we should expect now....unless someone like jose comes in loves it does well and wants to commit for a long term project, I doubt we will see all that happen though but you never know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBrown Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Mourinho would definitely do better than LVG in the short term and probably play more attractive football that would win games. The problem is that you'll be in the same predicament when he inevitably leaves after one or two seasons. I'm not a United fan, but if I was I'd worry whether you would actually progress in the long term under him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The only optimism I could give in the long term if we were to hire Mourinho is that he has eyed this gig for so long, you would think that he would want to stay as long as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 People keep obsessing about the long term, when very few managers stay longer than 3 years these days... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torminator Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The biggest problem with LvG is that he is stubborn to the bone. If people say the squad needs defenders, he will refuse to buy defenders to point out that "the people" were wrong. Thats his biggest downfall. He always does things to prove a point instead of doing whats best for the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBrown Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 People keep obsessing about the long term, when very few managers stay longer than 3 years these days... That is a problem you know? Hardly a positive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 That is a problem you know? Hardly a positive. It's been a staple for most of continental Europe and hasn't done most clubs any harm. So it's not actually a problem at all, it comes down to planning and how that it's handled. Ferguson was here forever, but the handling of his succession was bungled and that's where the problems came from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pago Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Pep only stays anywhere for 3 years but I think people still wanted him? At least with mourinho, he has prrtty much burnt his Spanish bridges as barca wouldn't want him and it's unlikely real would again. He's done Italy and if he were that enamoured with it then he possibly would have stayed longer there anyway. England is where he has come back to and so he may be more amenable to a longer term stay. Especially if he can create a legacy rather than be known as a short termer. No doubt he would have wanted that at chelsea but it didn't work out. Creating a legacy would be an ego boost. And that seems like something that would motivate him. That would then leave him with an international job at some point in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 People keep obsessing about the long term, when very few managers stay longer than 3 years these days... Yeah spot on. You could argue that someone like Chelsea have gone too far the other way, but they've still been more successful than most clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryseaess Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 Hasn't Mourinho publicly said that he wants to win the top 5 leagues in Europe before he retires? He's done three which leaves France and Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamesport Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Not as bad as Barcelona's performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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