Expensive Players - Is this Realism

[ctfm2012]

Are some of you guys and gal's finding it hard to sign some world class players ?. I recently tried to sign up Muller from Bayern Munich and they were arsking for 191 million pounds. Seriously is this realistic ? I thought the most expensive players were Messi/Ronaldo and recently Bale. But 191 million is a bit too steep don't you think.

What is your story ? please post so we can really see if there is an imbalance to realism.

[Kenco]

It's their way of saying he is not for sale. You are better off looking for alternative targets as it's easy to get good / potentially great players for a realistic fee.

[Cougar2010]

Are some of you guys and gal's finding it hard to sign some world class players ?. I recently tried to sign up Muller from Bayern Munich and they were arsking for 191 million pounds. Seriously is this realistic ? I thought the most expensive players were Messi/Ronaldo and recently Bale. But 191 million is a bit too steep don't you think.

What is your story ? please post so we can really see if there is an imbalance to realism.

and how do you think Bale's price was reached IRL?

Bayern don't want to sell Muller and have no reason to so quote you a high price to put you off. The issue here is that you are failing to recognise that they don't want to sell whereas IRL teams/managers recognise when others teams don't want to sell players and move onto other targets.

[HUNT3R]

Are some of you guys and gal's finding it hard to sign some world class players ?. I recently tried to sign up Muller from Bayern Munich and they were arsking for 191 million pounds. Seriously is this realistic ? I thought the most expensive players were Messi/Ronaldo and recently Bale. But 191 million is a bit too steep don't you think.

What is your story ? please post so we can really see if there is an imbalance to realism.

It took Real more than a day and one offer to get Bale/Ronaldo. They had to do a lot of groundwork and a lot of negotiating.

In their case, it was also a case of the player wanting to move to a club like Real. Who are you managing?

[SuperJackLester]

Why dont you lower the transfer amount and add some clauses in like they do IRL?

[ctfm2012]

I am using Real Madrid, i will try the clauses. The most i got it down to was 10 mill so back at 181 mil.

[Svenc]

Apart of Bayern "not wanting to sell": From memory, there was a debate amongst the German community a few FM iterations ago because it was perceived that Bayern would far too readily sell their best players. I think with someone like Neuer this was a none-issue, as he not often agreed to move foreign anyways (if you look at his profile, he has a preference edited into his data that he would prefer to play in Germany and neither in England nor in Spain nor in France nor in Italy -- which is based on real quotes off his and the fact that he refused amongst others offers from Manchester United for that reason a while ago).

What likely factored into this as well was the lower reputation of the Bundesliga compared to La Liga, ESPL, etc. I don't remember how this went, but I think it was suggested that a "solution had been found". So there might additionally someting hard coded into the game for Bayern specifically. 200 million pounds is a huge sum that would multiple the Bale transfer, and at some point arguably every club should "crack" and give in. That's a huge amount of money and they are asking for. Ever tried another key player of another big club?

[sporadicsmiles]

It can be extremely frustrating, I agree, but it is also realistic. Teams who do not want to sell, and have no pressure to sell, can ask for as much as they want for a player. If they think they have a player that they cannot replace - regardless of how much they sell them for - why would they sell? I certainly wouldn't do so unless I had need of a lot of cash.

The key with transfers in this game is timing, and unsettling. Timing means monitoring players you really want to sign for them being unhappy, or wanting to leave for whatever reason, or have a contract that has 2 years or less to run (the less time, the better). Then it is possible to pick up some good transfers. In my current game, I had my eye on a young regen 'keeper who looked insanely good for 4 years (and whilst I was at 2 different clubs), but the asking price was consistently too high for me to make a bid. But since I monitored the player, I knew he was unwilling to sign a new contract and I picked him up for a free. He is now the best goalkeeper in the world (and I no longer manage the same club, sadly).

If you are a big club you can also unsettle a player with bids and declaration of interest in signing him. This can be a long process, sometimes taking half a year to properly unsettle him so he wants to leave. Even then, he will be expensive, but a lot less so than if he does not want to leave. If you want to sign high profile players, this is the way to procede. And remember, it is not going to work every time. Some players are happy to stay where they are whoever is interested in them.

[ctfm2012]

As "Svenc" said, the profile part of the player is important to look at before singing him. It did say he didn't want to play in spain. Bayern accepted my offer of 120 million pounds for him, so then came the player talks. It had the big banner in red muller saying he didn't want to play for real madrid. I tried all sorts of stuff before singing him like giving him a nick name and also declaring interest and that didn't help at all. I find it a bit unrealistic because you know any player who is shown the big bucks will eventually make the move.

His current wage in game is 81k per week. I'm sure if i signed him up for real madrid he would be getting like x4 times that amount. So in real life do you think a player would knock back that type of money ? probably not. I signed Dante from Bayern and his now on a 140k per week salary. Interesting aye.

[Cougar2010]

I tried all sorts of stuff before singing him like giving him a nick name and also declaring interest and that didn't help at all

WTF?

In what universe did you think giving him a nickname would help you to sign him

[HUNT3R]

WTF?

In what universe did you think giving him a nickname would help you to sign him

I'm guessing he didn't like the nickname.

[HUNT3R]

I tried all sorts of stuff before singing him like giving him a nick name and also declaring interest and that didn't help at all.

You declared interest, yes. What you don't mention is, 1) what was his response back? 2) Did you manage to unsettle him at all? and 3) assuming you scouted him, what did the scout report say about his interest in joining you?

Edit: Is the answer to 3, that you looked on his profile at the scout report? It's pretty clear then that he doesn't want to move. You should move though. Onto other targets.

[Chinook2000]

As "Svenc" said, the profile part of the player is important to look at before singing him. It did say he didn't want to play in spain. Bayern accepted my offer of 120 million pounds for him, so then came the player talks. It had the big banner in red muller saying he didn't want to play for real madrid. I tried all sorts of stuff before singing him like giving him a nick name and also declaring interest and that didn't help at all. I find it a bit unrealistic because you know any player who is shown the big bucks will eventually make the move.

His current wage in game is 81k per week. I'm sure if i signed him up for real madrid he would be getting like x4 times that amount. So in real life do you think a player would knock back that type of money ? probably not. I signed Dante from Bayern and his now on a 140k per week salary. Interesting aye.

Yes Like Stevie G turning Chelsea down and staying at Liverpool(who accepted a bid)?

You see proof he doesn't want to play for Real Madrid,he refused a contract to Play for Real Madrid.How much more do you need too have he wants to stay?He might of got upset that Bayern even accepted your offer and he still said NO.

Try Wayne Rooney I heard he's easy to buy:herman:

[CityAndColour]

It's their way of saying he is not for sale.

I've never understood this. If it's an inquiry you can reject outright, and you can also reject a bid with the "the player is indispensable to the club" reason. So why wouldn't the AI just use these options rather than quoting absurd prices?

I assume it's because they want to see whether you'll pay it.

[milnerpoint]

I've never understood this. If it's an inquiry you can reject outright, and you can also reject a bid with the "the player is indispensable to the club" reason. So why wouldn't the AI just use these options rather than quoting absurd prices?

I assume it's because they want to see whether you'll pay it.

It used too. A large voice on the boards decided this was unrealistic as if you threw £200M at a team you could buy any player you wanted, so insisted that every player at every club had a price no matter what. SI put this in place, and people are still unhappy.

[HUNT3R]

I've never understood this. If it's an inquiry you can reject outright, and you can also reject a bid with the "the player is indispensable to the club" reason. So why wouldn't the AI just use these options rather than quoting absurd prices?

It's an issue where SI can't win. It used to be the case that clubs rejected bids for a player with the "indispensable to the club" line, but there was an outcry on the forum that "every player has a price" and that there should be "negotiation of some kind" rather than an outright rejection. The change was implemented and now were having complaints about this not being right either.

It comes down to the same thing in the end. Some users can't accept that a player isn't for sale.

[Kenco]

It's because they know that a lot of FMers are silly enough to pay it.

[CityAndColour]

Fair enough, makes sense.

I would rather they kept the ability to offer a contract to a player not interested in joining to be honest.

[upsettingshorts]

If

a) They don't need the money

b) Don't want to sell

Why would a truckload of cash persuade them to do something that isn't in their interests?

[withnail316]

Even Real Madrid can't sign every player they'd want to exactly when they want to. Play the long game with him, keep scouting him, keep talking about him in the press and then see if anything changes in a couple of seasons time. In the meantime, find another target.

[themadsheep2001]

Fair enough, makes sense.

I would rather they kept the ability to offer a contract to a player not interested in joining to be honest.

It's one of those things where they are somewhat "damned if they do, damned if they don't"

One thing I would like to see. If you decide to bid 191m for Muller in example, your board should veto it and even get angry that you considered it.

[chris23]

Playing as man utd and PSG come in with a bid for phil jones for £18 mil. I see him as a first team player and reject the offer. A week later they come back with a £20 mill offer this time I think ill test the waters and negotiate the offer asking for £50 mill (but would be willing to accept offers off £40 mill) eventually they get him for £41 mill even though i really wasn't willing to sell every player has a price its just are you willing to buy/sell for that price.

[CityAndColour]

It's one of those things where they are somewhat "damned if they do, damned if they don't"

One thing I would like to see. If you decide to bid 191m for Muller in example, your board should veto it and even get angry that you considered it.

I think every transfer offer should be approved by the board but I doubt many would want that as a feature.

[vitri0l]

Back on champ man the board would cancel offers for players if it was unrealistic...just glad that cahill had retired from internationals so i could sign him from millwall for 500k plus 10 mill after 1 cap any cash up front deal i managed to get accepted was banjoed by the board

[sosasoser]

The game does tell you very clearly that the AI team doesn't want to sell a player before you even put an offer in. If you get a scouting report, right there in the message you receive will be "Club Whatever is unlikely to want to sell." If you look at the scouting report, there will be nothing listed after asking price. They don't have an asking price because the player isn't for sale.

It doesn't matter who the player is, if there is no asking price in the scouting report you will have to pay several times the player's listed value if you want him. This is true even for brand new regens. It's not unusual for bigger clubs to demand 20 to 30 million for great regens who have only played a handful of youth squad games. When you're dealing with one their star players, of course the value multiple you are asked to pay seems unrealistic. However, it's a bit unrealistic to pay 20 million for an untested 16-year-old too.

[upsettingshorts]

You can bowl over some teams if you are much, much richer than them. But it's very hard to do so once you're all pretty big in your own right. To secure a player who will significantly improve a first team squad of a regular European contender should cost a fortune. That's why if you're going to spend a ton of money it's a better idea to just buy every prospect in the world.

[scott MUFC]

the prices quoted are above and beyond realistic prices, Trasnfer listed Sergio Aguaro? that will be £121m..... that is double eve the top end of his realistic value.

what I would like is when I scout a player is to see what the price is to buy the player rather then a not for sale.

AI have offered me £32m for Zivkovic despite him still being under 20, and playing a hand full of games.

[HUNT3R]

the prices quoted are above and beyond realistic prices, Trasnfer listed Sergio Aguaro? that will be £121m..... that is double eve the top end of his realistic value.

what I would like is when I scout a player is to see what the price is to buy the player rather then a not for sale.

BE PATIENT. THINK.

He's transfer listed, so obviously unhappy. Man City are trying to get top dollar for him, but it won't happen. Eventually he's going to kick up more of a fuss and they'll lower their price more and more until someone eventually bites. What are you expecting? Picking him up for £5m?

Throw oil on the fire. Make cheeky bids. Declare interest. Watch City squirm.

[scott MUFC]

they were raising the asking price every time I matched it on another transfer listed player.

[HUNT3R]

they were raising the asking price every time I matched it on another transfer listed player.

Because you're United. They don't want to sell to you even if Aguero wants out.

[adhikapp]

Back on champ man the board would cancel offers for players if it was unrealistic...just glad that cahill had retired from internationals so i could sign him from millwall for 500k plus 10 mill after 1 cap any cash up front deal i managed to get accepted was banjoed by the board

That is genius. Why haven't I thought of that?

[OscarGarcia]

Funnily enough I had the exact same problem with the exact same player, I was Brighton however and had just won the Prem twice in 2019 so he was like 29, he wouldn't come for any money and wasn't interested himself anyways. The #1 team in the game for rep etc was Manchester United, who sacked their manager that close season. I applied, got the job and instantly put in a declaration of interest for our Thomas. He declared he was flattered by my interest and said we'd be a great club to play for. Then I put in a 30 million quid bid. They said no and he stated he was unhappy at their rejection. I then bid 60, they asked for 210. I said 150 as a whatever bid and they rejected and asked for 210 again so I bid 200 and they accepted.

This is a 29 year old lad, clearly coming towards his final contract of his career, and they won't move below 200m despite the player being unhappy with their decision.

So yea, sometimes it is very unrealistic.

[Johnny Bravo]

Funnily enough I had the exact same problem with the exact same player, I was Brighton however and had just won the Prem twice in 2019 so he was like 29, he wouldn't come for any money and wasn't interested himself anyways. The #1 team in the game for rep etc was Manchester United, who sacked their manager that close season. I applied, got the job and instantly put in a declaration of interest for our Thomas. He declared he was flattered by my interest and said we'd be a great club to play for. Then I put in a 30 million quid bid. They said no and he stated he was unhappy at their rejection. I then bid 60, they asked for 210. I said 150 as a whatever bid and they rejected and asked for 210 again so I bid 200 and they accepted.

This is a 29 year old lad, clearly coming towards his final contract of his career, and they won't move below 200m despite the player being unhappy with their decision.

So yea, sometimes it is very unrealistic.

Yes, it's very unrealistic. Can't believe how many people in this thread are trying to justify Bayern wanting 191m for muller.

This game should be striving to be as life like as possible and to everyone who says that's Bayerns way of saying muller is not for sale, it would take nowhere near that amount for Bayern to accept IRL.

Money talks and everyone has a price.

Transfer system needs an overhaul to where you can actually buy world class players for around their real life values not three/four times as much!

[themadsheep2001]

Yes, it's very unrealistic. Can't believe how many people in this thread are trying to justify Bayern wanting 191m for muller.

This game should be striving to be as life like as possible and to everyone who says that's Bayerns way of saying muller is not for sale, it would take nowhere near that amount for Bayern to accept IRL.

Money talks and everyone has a price.

Transfer system needs an overhaul to where you can actually buy world class players for around their real life values not three/four times as much!

You clearly didnt read the thread properly.

The 191m comes from Bayern saying they dont want to sell at all. Historically you would simply get a not for sale message, but users complained that that "every player should have their price". So this is Bayern effectively quoting you a price so high they are telling you he's not for sale. Ideally your board would block you from being able to actually bid 191m, because no board would allow you to spend 191m on Muller.

Why should you be able to buy Muller, when Bayern are telling you he is not for sale?

The idea you should be able to buy a player for his "real world value" holds no weight. What is his value? And why should you be able to buy him, if the player is not for sale?

[Jimbokav1971]

There is another contrast to this argument discussion.

If we imagine for a minute that Muller, (the player being discussed in this instance), is not owned by an AI club, but is instead owned by a human controlled club, then what would we do when faced with the certain offers,

£25M

£50M

£75M

£100M

I have never managed Muller in FM and have never even seen his profile, but in real life he looks a hell of a player and if the researchers have done him justice then I expect him to be pretty special. I have currently got at least 6 players that I wouldn't sell for £100M.

My only issue with £191M is that it isn't really much more ridiculous than £100M (yes I know it's about 91% more ridiculous, but you know what I mean). The problem is that we are now getting into the realms where a player who is banned for 4 months and seems to have pretty significant psychological problems can be sold for £75M. What price is the younger Muller worth in todays market if Suarez can be sold for £75M?

I like that some players are just not for sale at any price. I think it's reflective of the real World. Can anyone imagine Barca selling Messi for £191M or Real selling Ronaldo for £191M? I can't see it, (even if you can).

When and if a certain "ridiculous" value is reached also quite like players to be able to say, "huh? I'm not going anywhere", for no other reason than.... well because they can. It might be young kids. It might be anything. But the fact that we have some many different personality types and lines within personalities makes me think that we should have players who are, (and aren't), willing to do just about everything.

Would I turn down £191M for a player? Damn right I would. (At least I think I would).

What about £200M? Would I turn that down too?

£300M?

£500M?

There comes a point where you are never going to spend the money so what is the purpose of the sale? In real terms it is compensation for a lost player who you have to sell iun the end because he wants to leave. If the player doesn't actually want to leave though..... then.... the need to sell the likes of Ronaldo, Bale, Suarez etc vanishes. I guess it's why there isn't really a valuation on Messi.

I understand the every player has a sale value, but my issue is how this £191M value is reached by the selling club?

[Edit]

I agree by the way that all but the most rich and aggressive style of boards should block any bid of this sort of amount.

[Edit2]

just looked up Muller in my game and he was let go on a free by Bayern at the end of the 2020/21 season, (as a 32 year old), after playing rarely for the previous 4 seasons. He then went on to play until he was 39 years making a further 203 appearances after leaving Bayern. I love this!

I wonder if his decline at Bayern is linked in any way to the topic that we are not allowed to mention. (At least we didn't used to be able to mention it).

[aderow]

Back on champ man the board would cancel offers for players if it was unrealistic...just glad that cahill had retired from internationals so i could sign him from millwall for 500k plus 10 mill after 1 cap any cash up front deal i managed to get accepted was banjoed by the board

I keep saying that they should bring this back in some fashion. I think the board should come to when you make a large bid and ask you to prove whether or not they should allow you to spend that much money at once.

[Jimbokav1971]

I keep saying that they should bring this back in some fashion. I think the board should come to when you make a large bid and ask you to prove whether or not they should allow you to spend that much money at once.

I agree with that. Just like the opposite side of the coin is that if they accept an offer over our heads we can go to them to complain, (we should be able to offer an ultimatum and I'm not sure if it allows that never having had to use it before).

[ctfm2012]

Greetings again all,

I ran another test. Again my team Real Madrid, I offered chelsea 200 million for Ramirez. Yes I showed interest in the player and he wants to play for me. Chealsea on the other hand said they do not want to sell him. If the player was of similar level of Ronaldo or Messi and now Suarez (Vampire Lord) i could understand that. I started the bids of 25 mill and worked it all the way up to 200 million. Again didn't have an impact at all. My question in this situation is, would chelsea have sold Ramirez to any club for 200 million ? let's be honest now. I believe so.

My test was to show the level or realism towards a lower level player and it doesn't feel right for that amount. The game is good in handling many transfers realistically but for lower levels like this probably not. What do you think of this ?

[themadsheep2001]

Greetings again all,

I ran another test. Again my team Real Madrid, I offered chelsea 200 million for Ramirez. Yes I showed interest in the player and he wants to play for me. Chealsea on the other hand said they do not want to sell him. If the player was of similar level of Ronaldo or Messi and now Suarez (Vampire Lord) i could understand that. I started the bids of 25 mill and worked it all the way up to 200 million. Again didn't have an impact at all. My question in this situation is, would chelsea have sold Ramirez to any club for 200 million ? let's be honest now. I believe so.

My test was to show the level or realism towards a lower level player and it doesn't feel right for that amount. The game is good in handling many transfers realistically but for lower levels like this probably not. What do you think of this ?

You're missing the point though. Ideally your board would block you from making a crazy bid for him. He's not for sale, we covered this ( and the historical viewpoint on this already)

[themadsheep2001]

I keep saying that they should bring this back in some fashion. I think the board should come to when you make a large bid and ask you to prove whether or not they should allow you to spend that much money at once.

I agree. People say that users would get annoyed, but franky they cant have it both ways. These crazy bids that people say should be accepted, well you wouldnt even be allowed to make them in the first place IRL.

[aderow]

I agree. People say that users would get annoyed, but franky they cant have it both ways. These crazy bids that people say should be accepted, well you wouldnt even be allowed to make them in the first place IRL.

People will always be annoyed. If this were a feature in FM15, I'd give it less than a day before someone is complaining that their board won't let them make a 250 million pound bid for a player.

[ctfm2012]

Well here is another transfer leak. Toni Kroos wants to join my team Real Madrid. Bayern said NO he aint going anywhere. I just out of curiosity i wanted to see at what price they would nudge at selling him. I offered Isco and 40 million pounds, they replied saying they are happy to sell him at 282 million pounds. Well that the highest i've seen in this game so far. Probably messi and ronaldo would sell for more.

[Loki679]

People will always be annoyed. If this were a feature in FM15, I'd give it less than a day before someone is complaining that their board won't let them make a 250 million pound bid for a player.

In this case we should go with realism and the most realistic scenario is that the board refuses to sanction such a ridiculous bid.

[HUNT3R]

Well here is another transfer leak. Toni Kroos wants to join my team Real Madrid. Bayern said NO he aint going anywhere. I just out of curiosity i wanted to see at what price they would nudge at selling him. I offered Isco and 40 million pounds, they replied saying they are happy to sell him at 282 million pounds. Well that the highest i've seen in this game so far. Probably messi and ronaldo would sell for more.

Stop getting hung up on the figure. They're telling you they don't want to sell. Then they're quoting you silly figures to get you to buzz off. Why aren't you taking the hints?

[Chinook2000]

Stop getting hung up on the figure. They're telling you they don't want to sell. Then they're quoting you silly figures to get you to buzz off. Why aren't you taking the hints?

It gives him a reason to post another question?So that you can answer it again with the same answer?

It will not be the last time,it will happen in the other threads where he will continue with 2 others(perhaps the same person)You will go round and round you will never get him to agree or look and read the answer.

This is no Offence but your a moderator with 6 years experience and are required to read a lot of posts without the option to ignore but has the penny dropped yet?

[HUNT3R]

It gives him a reason to post another question?So that you can answer it again with the same answer?

It will not be the last time,it will happen in the other threads where he will continue with 2 others(perhaps the same person)You will go round and round you will never get him to agree or look and read the answer.

This is no Offence but your a moderator with 6 years experience and are required to read a lot of posts without the option to ignore but has the penny dropped yet?

That's his choice if he doesn't want to understand the system or even read my posts. Even if he's stubborn, it doesn't mean the penny won't drop for someone else reading the posts.

[Chinook2000]

That's his choice if he doesn't want to understand the system or even read my posts. Even if he's stubborn, it doesn't mean the penny won't drop for someone else reading the posts.

But your time could be then used for genuine posters who have problems,It's possible he's got a grudge or a rival game in the pipeline. Any newbies or potential player will read his numerous threads and believe what he's saying as a Headline thread title will attract attention and if he can drag a thread out long enough too gain a number of Pages by asking the same question again and again this can lead to the answers being missed as the people aren't likely to bother reading page after page.

The threads are similar Methos is possibly the same poster as CTFM2012.The thread about teams above you wining more often I believe was an attempt to discredit the game but got picked apart for it's stupidity.Their post's constantly back each other no matter what the subject,and are in the same tone.

Chairman Modes biggest supporter was Metho's???Both refused the answers given and retaliated in he same manner???

[HUNT3R]

I help a lot of people and not just on this forum so let me worry about the use of my time.

[aderow]

In this case we should go with realism and the most realistic scenario is that the board refuses to sanction such a ridiculous bid.

And I would love nothing more than for this to happen.

[OscarGarcia]

For those saying that he's simply not for sale and to get over it.

"Suarez is not for sale"

*Sold*

"Liam Bridcutt is not for sale"

*Sold*

From every league in the world we see that EVERYONE has a price. This is usually due to a player holding a side to ransom. Take a look at Liam Bridcutts transfer from Brighton to Sunderland this January, Brighton stated he was NOT for sale, but he wanted to leave and expressed his dismay, it's about as FM as it gets at this point right?

Bridders then got 'injured' and wasn't in the 'right frame of mind' to play his football until we offloaded him, upon which he made a magical recovery.

In FM15 I'd love to see a full move towards each player and his agent having the power that they have in real life these days. If Suarez wants to leave and Liverpool do not want him to, Suarez will get his way, as will Bridcutt, Fabregas, Muller and everyone else.