Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[Fabio MVP]

In real life, going 2-0 up normally ends in a victory.

In FM14, going 2-0 up is a surefire way NOT to win the game you're playing.

I feel far more confident when my team is 1-0 up than 2-0. And as if by magic, the game I'm playing just now, I'm 2-0 up inside 15mins, and I'm 3-2 down at half time.

And yes, I know it's selective memory, but it does seem to happen an awful lot.

Must've said ''pleased'' at the half time.

[savatage]

forameuss ----They used to comment a lot more on the forums, and got nothing but abuse for it, so they stopped. If users cannot be patient, I don't see why SI should stick their necks out and pander to them, only to probably end up getting nothing but abuse when...

whatttttttttt??????

excuse me...but didnt we pay for the game???

if you by a car with problems,a book missing pages.......dont we have the right to say whats on our mind????to complain???are you kidding??

in front of critics inteligent and work people use it to learn and improve.

its very easy and good to sit here and ear all good stuff,were the best and so on....

but even the best fail once in a while...in this case every year theres a group of same bugs,so i have the right to complain,that dont mean i dont like or value the game and work of si team or anyonelse.

So the least they can do in consideration of the fans who payed the game is what PAUL C is doing ,come here once in a while and update us about the work theyre doing.

sorry my english.

[Ragazzo_SLB]

I've seen strikers miss easy chances, but then I see that on Match of the Day too, so I'm not too worried to be honest.

So you do like the game, but then complain that every single year it is "chaos". What does that say? Plus, very few people have maintained that "everything is OK". If you can point out more than five, then you'll be lucky.

If you did not like the game do not buy it. I like the game when playing minimally well. And this happens every year, but only happens in February / March.

What I see (and are more than five people) is that when someone complains about the game, many people say "if you're not happy, do not buy" and that's not right. We have the right to say whatever we want because we bought the game.

And if the patch does not come out as fast as desired, because the game is really serious problems.

[forameuss]

forameuss ----They used to comment a lot more on the forums, and got nothing but abuse for it, so they stopped. If users cannot be patient, I don't see why SI should stick their necks out and pander to them, only to probably end up getting nothing but abuse when...

whatttttttttt??????

excuse me...but didnt we pay for the game???

if you by a car with problems,a book missing pages.......dont we have the right to say whats on our mind????to complain???are you kidding??

in front of critics inteligent and work people use it to learn and improve.

its very easy and good to sit here and ear all good stuff,were the best and so on....

but even the best fail once in a while...in this case every year theres a group of same bugs,so i have the right to complain,that dont mean i dont like or value the game and work of si team or anyonelse.

sorry my english.

What part of what I said don't you understand? SI did used to communicate a lot more, and now they don't, because of the community. You've spectacularly missed the point of what my post was replying to. That was suggesting that there should be regular development updates to satisfy the masses, including rough outlines of release dates. I absolutely do not agree, and like I said, SI shouldn't stick their necks out and take that risk when all they're going to get is abuse from the overly entitled. Not too tough to understand, right?

If you did not like the game do not buy it. I like the game when playing minimally well. And this happens every year, but only happens in February / March.

What I see (and are more than five people) is that when someone complains about the game, many people say "if you're not happy, do not buy" and that's not right. We have the right to say whatever we want because we bought the game.

And if the patch does not come out as fast as desired, because the game is really serious problems.

The "Don't like/Don't buy" attitude isn't the best, I agree. It's a comment that doesn't really mean anything in the end. Completely agree that people should be able to complain constructively. Disagree about the "patch does not come out as fast as desired". It should come out when it's ready, and not before, it shouldn't matter how fast someone "desires" it to be released.

[Lord Rowell]

I'm sorry Ackter, this is a bug, end of story. It happens several times every single match. Headers missed from stupid distance on open net. It's impossible to deny the existence of a bug like this.

Reported on Edit no. 4 http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/371014-Reviewed-14.1.3-Goal-scored-but-not-shown-during-extended-highlights?p=9203604&viewfull=1#post9203604, not sure whether it's under review though.

I think SI have had this long in hand.

From what I can tell, its not as simple as strikers excessively missing point-blank headers, which does happen a lot.

The problem is that full-backs are underpowered at stopping wingers, so wingers are getting more good crosses in than they might do IRL. Hence, the ME is set to compensate by lowering the goals from point-blank headers conversion rate. If it didn't do this then there would be too many goals.

If they can fix the full-back problem we'll see less of those easy headers, then when they do happen they'll hit the back of the net more often.

I strongly suspect that by the next patch, this will have been sorted.

[Lord Rowell]

It's not something I'm seeing happen at all tbh. Not once, in fact.

I have to be honest, I'm amazed you haven't seen this happen - though I think there is an explanation if you see my earlier post.

[goat101010]

I've seen strikers miss easy chances, but then I see that on Match of the Day too, so I'm not too worried to be honest.

.

but you dont see the same miss over and over on match of the day. the heading is knackered from close range

[Ackter]

I have to be honest, I'm amazed you haven't seen this happen - though I think there is an explanation if you see my earlier post.

I run with a sweeper triangle in defence and my attack is based on the swapping positions of a striker and AM - I just don't see that type of chance happening at either end.

[Throughball]

In real life, going 2-0 up normally ends in a victory.

In FM14, going 2-0 up is a surefire way NOT to win the game you're playing.

I feel far more confident when my team is 1-0 up than 2-0. And as if by magic, the game I'm playing just now, I'm 2-0 up inside 15mins, and I'm 3-2 down at half time.

And yes, I know it's selective memory, but it does seem to happen an awful lot.

Your opponent obviously change up their tactics to respond to the score, you need to do the same!

[Federico]

It's not something I'm seeing happen at all tbh. Not once, in fact.

I don't want to look like a liar or what. Just uploaded Federico_Juventus v Galatasaray.pkm

FH 13:03 Doumbia

FH 31:45 Doumbia (Offside, but still a miss)

FH 45:30 Llorente

SH 46:03 Llorente

I admit one or maybe a couple of them are arguable, the others are ashaming though. A lot of absurd defensive movements and awful finishing on CCCs from both side, but this is another story.

I think SI have had this long in hand.

From what I can tell, its not as simple as strikers excessively missing point-blank headers, which does happen a lot.

The problem is that full-backs are underpowered at stopping wingers, so wingers are getting more good crosses in than they might do IRL. Hence, the ME is set to compensate by lowering the goals from point-blank headers conversion rate. If it didn't do this then there would be too many goals.

If they can fix the full-back problem we'll see less of those easy headers, then when they do happen they'll hit the back of the net more often.

I strongly suspect that by the next patch, this will have been sorted.

Perfectly clear, as perfectly ununderstandable. Solving an issue with a new issue so to have 2 issues instead of 1. Totally illogic.

[Lord Rowell]

I run with a sweeper triangle in defence and my attack is based on the swapping positions of a striker and AM - I just don't see that type of chance happening at either end.

Ah so its obviously your tactics ;-) j/k . Seriously, that makes sense

Perfectly clear, as perfectly ununderstandable. Solving an issue with a new issue so to have 2 issues instead of 1. Totally illogic.

It's totally logical. Cause and effect isn't always direct between one thing and another, it can go through a chain.

As an aside, when cause and effect works through a related chain of events, well that's how you sometimes get unintended consequences from a change and I suspect problems of this nature are what Paul C and his team have to deal with.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Your opponent obviously change up their tactics to respond to the score, you need to do the same!

Have done, makes little difference. Happens the other way round too though. When Bradford PA went 2-0 up against me early doors in a recent game, I actually cheered their 2nd goal. And right on cue, I won 3-2.

I went through the last 5 seasons that I've played in this save, and out of over 200 games, including cup competitions, there have been six games that have finished 2-0. Given it's a pretty common scoreline in real life, that's probably a bit low.

I daresay the 'too many goals' issue in full detail leagues will have something to do with it, but I'll be interested to see how often it happens post-update.

[Kriss]

That's because you mods are playing the patched version already

We don't get patches, only updates how long before people get with the terminology, it's damned irritating

[Federico]

It's totally logical. Cause and effect isn't always direct between one thing and another, it can go through a chain.

As an aside, when cause and effect works through a related chain of events, well that's how you sometimes get unintended consequences from a change and I suspect problems of this nature are what Paul C and his team have to deal with.

I keep finding your post very logic.

And I keep finding the (assumed) solution SI adopted to solve this problem totally illogic

We don't get patches, only updates how long before people get with the terminology, it's damned irritating

I'm sorry english is not my mother language.

[Kriss]

Did somebody say too many short range headers are going over the top? that is correct and will be cured in the fullness of time.

[darthrodent]

I'm sorry but I find this comment absolutely absurd.

It doesn't matter how bad somebodys tactics are.....a EPL top 6 side should walk past a team like Glentoran.

There's towing the company line and then there's actually believing the company line.

No, no! and NO! IT"S A GAME!!! Of course it matters how good or bad one's tactics are. I'll be as crude as I can to avoid getting into the complexities of programming. The underlying engine (the code) is a bunch of "dormant variables" until said variables are "interacted with" via user input. The output of the user's interaction with those variables is governed by your "ability" if you like. Success is likely based on the user doing good things most of the time. Now, whether or not you or I agree or disagree what constitutes "doing a good thing" is perfectly irrelevant since the code is the code—it's there and it's not changing. A match engine exploit is quite simply the user's ability to do "good things" that aren't necessarily meant to be good.

To put it in its crudest form—and I hate to do so since I am a developer myself—let's assume a manager's success is based on the roll of a 20 sided die. A poor player will roll a 5 most of the time while a good player will roll a 17. Over the course of a season the good player will probabilistically be more successful. So what if an EPL (please don't call it the EPL) side who should win in real-life? Because I can turn into a werewolf in Skyrim, should I be able to do so every full moon in my real-life? Of course not, it's a non-sequitur.

[Kriss]

I'm sorry english is not my mother language.

Aggiornare in your case then

[jujigatame]

I think SI have had this long in hand.

From what I can tell, its not as simple as strikers excessively missing point-blank headers, which does happen a lot.

The problem is that full-backs are underpowered at stopping wingers, so wingers are getting more good crosses in than they might do IRL. Hence, the ME is set to compensate by lowering the goals from point-blank headers conversion rate. If it didn't do this then there would be too many goals.

If they can fix the full-back problem we'll see less of those easy headers, then when they do happen they'll hit the back of the net more often.

I strongly suspect that by the next patch, this will have been sorted.

IMO, it's not just point-blank headers but high-attribute attackers in general have a lot more trouble finishing than they should. I'll check my stats when I get home but I think most of my attackers (Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Lavezzi) have shot conversion rates around 4-5% whereas IRL good strikers are around 8-10% and top strikers can get up to 20%.

Also, I'm not sure I've EVER seen a striker score from a 1-on-1 in FM14. They can't seem to pick the right shot and either put it wide or right into the oncoming keeper's chest.

Hopefully this will improve after the impending patch. Improved shot selection will go a long way.

[srvngrc]

any news about update???

[RTHerringbone]

any news about update???

Eyes are your friends, use them to look back over the past page or two to find an answer.

[Richard76]

any news about update???

No patch this week sadly.

[Federico]

Aggiornare in your case then

Hehe.. your italian is far way better than my english

No patch this week sadly.

It's not a patch, it's an update!

Did somebody say too many short range headers are going over the top? that is correct and will be cured in the fullness of time.

I did and that's a good news to hear.

[AndySummers]

The ME 'issues' will have been covered numerous times judging by the handful of pages I've read. So I'll mention two facets of the game which are unrealistic at the moment:

Context - playing as Roma, 13 league games gone, sitting 10th in Serie A. I've just had five players wanting to discuss team underperformance. Fine. However....I started the season 1-1-4 beset by injury, currently on a 7 game unbeaten streak (4 wins, 3 draws), and now the players feel the need to comment? Perhaps the commentary on league position is set to kick in at a certain point of the season, but I'm actually only 2pts off Europe, the position Roma are expected to be at. Further, all five players gave the same initial reaction to my responses. It does not seem very dynamic.

Also, fan reactions. Even when winning in convincing fashion - 3-1, 4-1 etc - the fan reaction has not risen beyond about 50% 'satisfied'. Ok, so I'd expect the higher ratings on the bar only to be for wins against better teams/rivals/Lazio/trophy games, but surely a comprehensive win should be rated better than simply content? All defeats so far have seen the bar descend to about 15% (and that was both against teams I'd expect to beat and teams rated a similar quality). I find it unbalanced.

[goat101010]

im amazed some people manage to even install the game nevermind find bugs

[CityAndColour]

Your opponent obviously change up their tactics to respond to the score, you need to do the same!

I see it as well, although I experience it more when three goals up (or down). Team won't even have a chance for an hour, then becomes an offensive tour de force for 7-8 minutes, then once it's 2-3 or 3-3, they go back to being lifeless!

Obviously is a tactical issue I haven't mastered yet, but it seems momentum is crazy powerful in this ME. A lot of comebacks in rapid time.

[noikeee]

I'm seeing loads of easy headers missed. I only get away with it because my wingers play so many super crosses that eventually one does get in (note that Walcott who crosses superbly over and over again has a crossing stat of like 12 or 13 - he plays like Figo on his Barcelona days), so heading is one of my main ways to get a goal.

I'm actually glad the patch isn't out already because I've got my team kind of working now and need to end the season. My annoyances with the ME are still there, it's just that I've found ways to win regardless.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Obviously is a tactical issue I haven't mastered yet, but it seems momentum is crazy powerful in this ME. A lot of comebacks in rapid time.

Momentum is powerful because there is too little composure in the play out of defense in addition to the defensive line/engagement issues. This makes the motivational aspect a bit too effective as the team who are fired up can just keep going at the team who are nervous (or whatever combination to that effect) because the nervous team can't pick an obvious pass to relieve the pressure, and since they're probably too deep as a unit there's no way out. I'm certain this will be better after a patch (yeah, an update, you do realise it's the same thing )

Doesn't mean you can't tactically plan against comebacks though. Just have to bear the above in mind.

[j4y_z]

Wow. It's actually disturbing how some of you guys think software development works. You just don't release updates without proper testing. In fact SI are pretty darn fast given the relatively small team and overall complexity of the game.

[jujigatame]

Momentum is powerful because there is too little composure in the play out of defense in addition to the defensive line/engagement issues. This makes the motivational aspect a bit too effective as the team who are fired up can just keep going at the team who are nervous (or whatever combination to that effect) because the nervous team can't pick an obvious pass to relieve the pressure, and since they're probably too deep as a unit there's no way out. I'm certain this will be better after a patch (yeah, an update, you do realise it's the same thing )

Doesn't mean you can't tactically plan against comebacks though. Just have to bear the above in mind.

If what you're saying is true, it sounds like dialing down to defensive or counter strategy to try and finish a game out is a recipe for disaster.

[AndySummers]

Headers missed from stupid distance on open net. It's impossible to deny the existence of a bug like this.

There may be a generic bug issue, but equally it may be the ME engine attempt to replicate something that is quite difficult to demonstrate - height of cross. I was watching a game last week, I forget which, where a striker missed from about five yards. But on replay, actually the cross was a couple of inches above ideal, and very slightly behind him. It looked a bad miss, actually there was little the player could do to stop his header going a foot over the bar. That element is something which is extremely difficult to quantify in an FM match engine - height of cross, height of player.

[Äktsjon Männ]

IMO, it's not just point-blank headers but high-attribute attackers in general have a lot more trouble finishing than they should. I'll check my stats when I get home but I think most of my attackers (Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Lavezzi) have shot conversion rates around 4-5% whereas IRL good strikers are around 8-10% and top strikers can get up to 20%.

Also, I'm not sure I've EVER seen a striker score from a 1-on-1 in FM14. They can't seem to pick the right shot and either put it wide or right into the oncoming keeper's chest.

Hopefully this will improve after the impending patch. Improved shot selection will go a long way.

You're saying your attackers are on the low side though. Have you checked other teams as well?

In my experience, and this is all lower league, there doesn't seem to be much wrong with conversion rates. Some keeper animations/movements make things look more weird than it should be but generally every miss/save I see is one that makes sense in the bigger picture.

[jujigatame]

You're saying your attackers are on the low side though. Have you checked other teams as well?

In my experience, and this is all lower league, there doesn't seem to be much wrong with conversion rates. Some keeper animations/movements make things look more weird than it should be but generally every miss/save I see is one that makes sense in the bigger picture.

I can check other top Ligue 1 scorers like Falcao and Lacazette if you like. I'm not referring to just my team, the AI-controlled clubs appear to fluff a lot of chances too.

[Äktsjon Männ]

If what you're saying is true, it sounds like dialing down to defensive or counter strategy to try and finish a game out is a recipe for disaster.

Not that much because there is very little variation between even the two extremes of defensive line.

[MichaelBrown]

These particular issues weren't there when the game was released, they arose because of SI's policy of continuing development up to and beyond release, which some call commendable and some (like me) call too damned risky

My policy would be to code lock the ME 2 months before release and then only fix absolute game breakers or things which could be guaranteed to have no knock on effects.

Then I'd say to us (Joe Public) "that is the ME for FM14 like it or loathe it, we're off to Hawaii for 2 weeks and when we come back we'll start on FM15"

And the reason that SI is so successful is that they totally ignore these suggestions.

[jujigatame]

Not that much because there is very little variation between even the two extremes of defensive line.

True but dialing down to defensive strategy will also cause your players to stand off more. Combine that with the deeper line and you're giving attackers a lot more room to operate.

[Äktsjon Männ]

True but dialing down to defensive strategy will also cause your players to stand off more. Combine that with the deeper line and you're giving attackers a lot more room to operate.

You will, but there are ways to combat that. Clever set up of team shape for example that gives you more outlets. In practice I personally never go defensive to close a game anyway so I can't comment through experience but I can't see why you couldn't even with the issues we have right now.

[WizbaII]

And the reason that SI is so successful is that they totally ignore these suggestions.

I think SI's policy and Kriss' suggested policy are very similar. The main difference is that one angers the consumer much more.

Also, it would be inaccurate to call SI's current policy one of continuous development. Any game that releases yearly is, by default, a game of continuous development.

[mBrace1985]

Yeah another week to wait just my luck it gets released next friday because its my weekend to work

[uğurcan]

Am I the only one who think players are asking unrealistic amounts of appearance fees? The player I'm trying to sign nowadays asks for 60k salary + 18k appearance fee (which is almost 1/3 of his salary).

[MrPompey]

Yeah another week to wait just my luck it gets released next friday because its my weekend to work

Yes we are all keen for the latest update but you can rest assured everyone including SI is doing their best to get this out. Best to wait until its as best as it can be than release something that isn't. I've got next week off - maybe I chose the wrong week

[mBrace1985]

Just read daylight tactics thread so i'm off to work on my tactics (good read by the way)

[RTHerringbone]

Just read daylight tactics thread so i'm off to work on my tactics (good read by the way)

daylight has done a great job to turn things round, and the Tactics forum did its bit to help.

We're still waiting for ajw10 to post his setup there to see if he can be helped too, so feel free to join the migrants to that sub-forum if you want some constructive advice.

[CityAndColour]

I'm seeing loads of easy headers missed. I only get away with it because my wingers play so many super crosses that eventually one does get in (note that Walcott who crosses superbly over and over again has a crossing stat of like 12 or 13 - he plays like Figo on his Barcelona days), so heading is one of my main ways to get a goal.

I've actually found that looping headers from 12-15 yards have a much greater chance of going in than headers from a yard or two out.

At a guess I would say this is down to the natural heading action in the ME, which is the head up. You very rarely seem to see a bullet header or a downwards header, it's always a looping one, so headers become more effectively the further out you are.

[Ackter]

Am I the only one who think players are asking unrealistic amounts of appearance fees? The player I'm trying to sign nowadays asks for 60k salary + 18k appearance fee (which is almost 1/3 of his salary).

Think this has already been raised, yeah. Check the bugs forum, just in case.

[daylight]

Just read daylight tactics thread so i'm off to work on my tactics (good read by the way)

daylight has done a great job to turn things round, and the Tactics forum did its bit to help.

We're still waiting for ajw10 to post his setup there to see if he can be helped too, so feel free to join the migrants to that sub-forum if you want some constructive advice.

I am just sitting enjoying a beer and thinking to myself how happy I am I took RTHerringbone advice and made a thread in the tactics forum, the way my team performed this season has been great to watch and it is with the help from the guys in the tactics forum.

I posted this screenshot in the tactics thread but I think fair is fair and it deserves to be posted here also.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I've mostly played the full game since the last main update in the dafuge challenge I'm doing, but I've recently started a new Hibs career on FM Classic, and as I mentioned earlier, the 3D engine looks a lot smoother. A few weeks into the season, and both my fullbacks haven't been affected with the low ratings 'bug' as they are in the full game. I know it's the same ME, but it just looks and plays, well, better. Not that there's anything majorly wrong with the main game, but the issues in the game do appear to be more prominent there than they are on Classic.

[Jibby123]

I am just sitting enjoying a beer and thinking to myself how happy I am I took RTHerringbone advice and made a thread in the tactics forum, the way my team performed this season has been great to watch and it is with the help from the guys in the tactics forum.

I posted this screenshot in the tactics thread but I think fair is fair and it deserves to be posted here also.

Good on you for cracking it, and getting more out of the game by way of your thread. Nice one.

.....and also good to see still hanging in there with the Leipzig as well. You've done well as per your screenshot there. My Leipzig save is on ice (almost towards the end of 1st season, 3rd in 3rd Div) but will return to it soon.

[daylight]

Yeah Jibby you were the one that started my journey, if it helps any the board are really good at backing you, I have went to them a few times with my cap in hand asking "please sir can I have some more?" and time and again they have backed me.

So glad I read the thread with you recommending them as a save, first time I have had a German save and what a great save it is.

[Dagenham_Dave]

So glad I read the thread with you recommending them as a save, first time I have had a German save and what a great save it is.

My first save on the Beta on this game was at Gladbach, and it was great even if it ended in disaster. I'll need to start a new German save soon. You've inspired me.

[Jibby123]

No worries daylight. Good to know on the board, so thanks for the heads up. Makes me even more determined to get my teeth back in on them. I've stopped to play with a edited DB to mess around with, not for patch/ME issues (most of which fly over my head) so might dive back in to Leipzig this weekend. Inspired me in return Daylight.