FM09 will be...

[rougess]

it sounds like the OP thinks, "well the olympics used to be fantastic, but they haven't changed much apart from adding bmx and 10k swimming. therefore, the london olympics will be rubbish."

i am in full support of SI, as i believe they do take our criticism on board, but some new bugs appear and things like the confidence and transfer system can't be changed until the next game. given that people have been moaning about the above since the release date, i'm sure SI will have fixed them, as well as adding suggestions from the forums.

[Svenc]

I understand exactly what the OP's point is.

It seems like the end users' thoughts and wishes are not listened to which is frustrating.

Personally I feel that the whole issue would be removed if after the release date, SI asked the forum to prioritise from a list all the things that they would like in the next version.

First of: feedback sure is important. But the degree of influence you're suggesting here is waaaaay bad. Sure, there's plenty of healthy discussion going on here on the boards. But each developer has a vision. As it's their program it's only them who really know in what direction they're going. What they're even trying to do. And what they need to accomplish for getting there. As such I'm tempted to just say: screw the fans! They're pimping their own agendas and don't know jack, really! But only to make that very important point come across.

Also, there's quite a lot of long-term series that don't change much from one installement to the next. In these cases I personally just choose to skip them. As the games tend to be so similar, nothing's lost sticking to a prior version, so why complain about it? It's not like you're forced to buy anything.

[Bababui]

I wish the game would allow more flexibility. The way the coaching staff is handled really sucks. When a guy has an 18 in tactics and a 7 in GK and is slapped with the inflexible label of GK coach, that just doesn't make sense. When a small team has two or three 'youth' or 'first team' coaches, that doesn't make sense. The number of coaches ought to be limited by the size of the wage budget.

And please reduce the number of pointless clicks needed to get a match started. All that stuff could be included on a single screen. And an initial option to erase all preseason injuries would also be appreciated.

Thank you.

[jod123]

I wish the game would allow more flexibility. The way the coaching staff is handled really sucks. When a guy has an 18 in tactics and a 7 in GK and is slapped with the inflexible label of GK coach, that just doesn't make sense. When a small team has two or three 'youth' or 'first team' coaches, that doesn't make sense. The number of coaches ought to be limited by the size of the wage budget.

And please reduce the number of pointless clicks needed to get a match started. All that stuff could be included on a single screen. And an initial option to erase all preseason injuries would also be appreciated.

Thank you.

There is an option in preferences to redcuce the amount of screens in the match preview.

[ZJ]

I'll probably get FM09 when its dropped in price or when I find a retailer who sells it at an acceptable price. Usually by that time the first patch is out

Started playing 07, I find overall 08 is better although there is the usual hang-ups that people complain about. Not too many of them worry me, I don't expect perfection, merely enjoyment and the game delivers in abundence. I also expect 09 to be an improvement to 08, not a new game.

I find the Match Engine better, in particular lots more long shots going in, and the players does very real movement (most of the time anyway, as I said, its not perfect).

Regens, while I agree they are a bit unbalanced at times, I can easily find 25 good ones that suit my purposes and then continously scout/train replacements. One of the better changes from 07 to 08 was making it harder to spot players with great PA.

Skin? I just changed it to one I liked. Can't even say I remember the original one.

There will always be complaints, as long as SI feel that what they do delivers a good product they will do so. If they don't, they will lose me as a customer and I'll play something else.

[Bababui]

There is an option in preferences to redcuce the amount of screens in the match preview.

I'd like to have the options all available, but on a single screen. And the increasing inflexibility in the game, although maybe realistic, makes the game less fun, IMO. Why not an option to make all teams in each league equal in terms of resources and reputation, even if only possible using fictional players? How bout an option to turn off injuries? An option to use only neutral refs, if we dont like those matches that end with 10 yellow cards?

[Hauler24]

WWfan - this is the first time that I've ever overruled a mod on the forum (as you well know, I leave the moderation to the mods) but I'm actually quite keen on seeing if I get a response on this one

So thread re-opened!

That is very bold Miles for you to say that. Seeing as how there better and I mean BETTER be some changes to Regens and the match engine and the way it works. I'm sure there are other really important things but from the threads complaining these 2 things have been up there most on the list of get it right. It really is on you Miles and I will be saving this thread as well. I don't doubt the game I love it but I have been disappointed to hear that Regens have been poor for some time now and I would like to hear what solution if any you have come up with to solve this. So you boys at SI better blow me away with what you have or I'm going to be..... thoroughly disappointed at waiting all this time to hear that the communities voice has gone unheard. It's on you.

Also I'm referring to the post about the OP being proven wrong.

[Miles Jacobson]

That is very bold Miles for you to say that. Seeing as how there better and I mean BETTER be some changes to Regens and the match engine and the way it works. I'm sure there are other really important things but from the threads complaining these 2 things have been up there most on the list of get it right. It really is on you Miles and I will be saving this thread as well. I don't doubt the game I love it but I have been disappointed to hear that Regens have been poor for some time now and I would like to hear what solution if any you have come up with to solve this. So you boys at SI better blow me away with what you have or I'm going to be..... thoroughly disappointed at waiting all this time to hear that the communities voice has gone unheard. It's on you.

Also I'm referring to the post about the OP being proven wrong.

The one that you failed to quote where I said "Mr.N0va - I'm more than happy for you to gloat to your hearts content if you are proved correct, particularly as you seem absolutely certain of your ascertations.

But what will you do if you are proven to be incorrect?"?

All I did was ask the guy a question. Don't really see what is bold about it at all!

I repeat, I'm more than happy for him to gloat if he is proved correct. But if he's going to do that, then I think it's well within my rights to know what he'll do IF he's proved wrong. Nowhere have I said he will be, just asked what he'd do if he is.

As for your demands, it's pretty simple. We release a demo of the game each year before release. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't. Exactly the reason why we release a demo - to give the consumer the choice that all consumers (myself included) deserve, alongside the normal previews, reviews and the like.

Personally speaking, I'm pretty happy with FM09 so far. I look forward to announcing it when we're ready to.

But what I don't like is people making stuff up and claiming it as fact. I also don't like people posting in a threatening manner, or shouting in their posts....

[javier_83]

lets be patientes, i will buy fm because, i love this game!!, and i spend a lot of my time after work, playing, if they want to play fifam, ok, they want to play it, thats nothign wrong with that!!

lets wait for news, and see what surprises have SI to us!!

[Hauler24]

Sounds good. Obviously I can't play far enough ahead to see if the regens are the real deal but I would hope that you or whomever is going to list new features about the game would include something on whether regens have been tweaked, looked at whatever. Also I hope that you chose to look at match scores and how high they are. Those the only 2 things I'm really concerned about.

When I read your post I must have misinterpreted it cause I thought you were openly saying what you said cause you were very confident that the game would not be a flop. I love the game but I don't think that if those 2 aspects have been overlooked for another year then.... well we will see when we get to that road. Hope to hear something soon.

My apologizes for sounding so rash. Sorry Miles. I'm sure you guys have been working hard for us and I will wait to play the demo to gain some more knowledge about what is and what isn't.

Also does WWSM come out at the same time that FM does? Or are there separate release dates?

[stevie_G_32201]

call it blind loyalty or whatever you want. but i will be buying this game on release date no matter what anyone on the forums says. wether i like the demo or not. FM has helped me for years and this year will be no differnt. i love the series and i cant imagine life without it! bring on FM09!

[Hauler24]

I agree Stevie it definitely fills a void for that type of simulation need in my life.

[stevie_G_32201]

yes it does. could you imagine a long journey or a day of nothing to do without this? i myself cannot wait for FM09 and i am waiting patiently for info on it so i can get all excited and not sleep for weeks i cant wait!

[SiN8]

Although the OP did overly dramatize his thoughts, I'd have to agree with his general sentiment. Looking at the back of the CD box, let's summarize the main changes in FM08.

Confidence: Good idea, but poorly executed. Major bugs which were only partially fixed by patches. (4/10)

Club Finances: Can't say fan days and collective bonuses had any impact on my gameplay (2/10)

Manage Money: This one was sorely needed. Kudos. (7/10)

Match Flow: Don't really understand why this was implemented. Didn't add anything to the game. Wouldn't miss it if it was gone from FM09. (2/10)

Real Time Tactical Changes: Didn't use that much. Still had to wait several gametime minutes for a while before instructions were changed. (2/10)

Facegen Technology: Good start, but most players looked too similar. Also, ethnic names and skin color did not match. (6/10)

International Managment: Never tried; someone can comment on this. (NA)

Transfer Center: I enjoyed this addition, although it didn't impact gameplay at all. (7/10)

Awards: Best XI is a nice feature; but again no impact to gameplay (5/10)

Advisor System: Turned off right away (NA)

New Tools: No real use for calender and notebook (2/10)

New Skin: Replaced it asap (1/10)

There were many other minor features added, but going by just the ones mentioned back of the CD box, I'd say FM08 was not worth the money. Furthermore, the match engine was absolutely horrible in 8.0.0. Combined with the poor regens, it seems like FM08 took a major step back.

Since the sales were the best ever, I'd think that SI would use that extra revenue to expand their development and improve their quality testing of FM09. Instead it seems like a lot of effort is being put into FML. I'm hoping that Miles' confidence means that FM09 will prove me wrong. But like the OP, my expectations are not that high. Laugh about them today, but pretty soon, the competitors will catch up.

[Yallii]

I'd love some new leagues. It's been ages since we had some!

[Svenc]

Luxembourg, Luxembourg!

I agree Stevie it definitely fills a void for that type of simulation need in my life.

Same here, but the life-span of a good footie sim is endless - in theory. Every game can last you a lifetime, and since complexity is on the rise, this is getting more and more of a factor. I want to play another game from time to time as well, damnit! I've put days into FM08 and still feel like I haven't yet touched much of anything. Looking back, I bought a new manager once in approximately 4-5 years since ca. 1990.

Updated databases are a good selling point as well, but they don't make or break the game on fundamental levels. Still, keeping an eye on what SI are doing ever since I discovered the FM series about a year ago. Really curious where they're going with this, absolutely. It's the kind of thing only dedicated football fans could come up with, and the love for the sports shows on every level.

[ftg87]

Woah, lotsa new thoughts since I posted yesterday, almost too much to take in

I think for all of us, or the majority at least, we will probably play the demo, realise that we love SI and FM and rush out and buy it immediately

But, on a more serious note, it seems a lot of people do share the concerns of the OP and myself, even if the OP was a teensy bit aggresive and has mysteriously disappeared, and it is these concerns that SI need to take on board and for that reason, I am, quite frankly, overjoyed that Miles has graced us with his presence here. The fact that he says he is quite happy with 09 at the mo, leads me to believe that, unless he is being really sly here, these issues have already been addressed and that this thread is his way of gloating to us

Personally, I just hope that the OP plays the demo of 09 and is knocked on his arse by how good it is, come to think of it, I hope that happens to all of us and it's up to Miles and SI to do that for us

[stevie_G_32201]

yeah!! nice one miles keep coming in drop a few hint here and there but if your happy then we, the fans, are too! bring on FM09!

[Miles Jacobson]

Since the sales were the best ever, I'd think that SI would use that extra revenue to expand their development and improve their quality testing of FM09. Instead it seems like a lot of effort is being put into FML. I'm hoping that Miles' confidence means that FM09 will prove me wrong. But like the OP, my expectations are not that high. Laugh about them today, but pretty soon, the competitors will catch up.

For the umpteenth time, the FML development team is a seperate team. The team utilise some areas of FM (such as the database and the match engine), but the two development routes are very different. No member of the FM team has moved across to the FML team, and the FM team has grown this year organically, as it has done for the last 15 years.

You will never find us laughing about what you call our competitors. There are lots of talented people out there making sports management games. We will just continue to do our best to improve and add to the series, as we can't really do much more than that.

Woah, lotsa new thoughts since I posted yesterday, almost too much to take in

I think for all of us, or the majority at least, we will probably play the demo, realise that we love SI and FM and rush out and buy it immediately

But, on a more serious note, it seems a lot of people do share the concerns of the OP and myself, even if the OP was a teensy bit aggresive and has mysteriously disappeared, and it is these concerns that SI need to take on board and for that reason, I am, quite frankly, overjoyed that Miles has graced us with his presence here. The fact that he says he is quite happy with 09 at the mo, leads me to believe that, unless he is being really sly here, these issues have already been addressed and that this thread is his way of gloating to us

Personally, I just hope that the OP plays the demo of 09 and is knocked on his arse by how good it is, come to think of it, I hope that happens to all of us and it's up to Miles and SI to do that for us

I read a lot more than I post nowadays. And we take all constructive criticism seriously.

I'm not a gloater. Nor am I being sly. I asked the guy a question. It won't be for me to judge whether he's right or wrong with his ascertations - it will be for you to judge when we announce the new features and you get to play the demo or full game.

[Ridleys]

I agree with you 100% n0va. It was frankly pathetic that SIGames touted the "new skin" as a "major feature" when it was god ugly and made me want to stab my eyes out.

I really am baffled who looked at that skin and thought to themselves "aah people will love playing with that skin for hours!"

You do better tbh.

[ftg87]

I'm not a gloater. Nor am I being sly. I asked the guy a question

Unless I am just being paranoid, seems I have offended you here, if I have I'm sorry, not my intention at all mate

We will just continue to do our best to improve and add to the series, as we can't really do much more than that.

Chuffed to bits to read this! Was almost exactly what I said yesterday, ie I thought was realistic and was what I wanted to see

It won't be for me to judge whether he's right or wrong with his ascertations - it will be for you to judge when we announce the new features and you get to play the demo or full game.

Personally, I'm on the edge of my seat, sure I will love 09 as I have loved SI's work for many years, very much looking forward to playing the demo and posting like crazy on here about it

[JBC]

I see a lot of discussions about what may come. But I am more interested in the question when will it come?? Are there any dates known of the Demo, or even better the full game itselves?? Then we can all see if SI was able to handle these critics. I'm looking forward to it!

[weeeman27bob]

I see a lot of discussions about what may come. But I am more interested in the question when will it come?? Are there any dates known of the Demo, or even better the full game itselves?? Then we can all see if SI was able to handle these critics. I'm looking forward to it!

No we don't know anything about dates. All news is being announced at the end of the month.

[Pompeyboyz]

I must say that with things Miles has said on this thread he is not gloating or being sly but in my opinion is being a terrible tease....

[Mortified Penguin]

No matter what, critics will always find something to complain about.

[stevie_G_32201]

i cant see why they would even criticise a game that no info has been released for yet. how can they do it? they cant be fans of the series if they are expecting it to fail before any info is released. they are a disgrace to the board and the true fans of the game.

[WoIfsong]

it sounds like the OP thinks, "well the olympics used to be fantastic, but they haven't changed much apart from adding bmx and 10k swimming. therefore, the london olympics will be rubbish."

I do not know how you got the idea of comparing game development to Olympics...very creative. Your comparison would be good if in every Olympics the same people win the same medals for every sport/event.

[n0va]

Mr.N0va

I'm more than happy for you to gloat to your hearts content if you are proved correct, particularly as you seem absolutely certain of your ascertations.

But what will you do if you are proven to be incorrect?

If i am wrong i will hold my hands up and apologise. Its upto you tho to prove me wrong on my assumptions. I was always told not to assume things but i could'nt resist this one. Being a paying customer i do have some rights to voice my own opinions/concerns on a game i do like.

Anyway, first things first, i never said i did not like Football Manager 2008. Infact i do (hence why i spent months making soundpacks) and always have. My point was it needs updating. A fresh look and layout with all the features implemented better and less bugs when it is released. There is nothing worse than buying the same game each year and then moaning after a couple of months that i am bored because its just the exact same thing as the year before. I want something that will make me horny just by looking at it. The thrill i got before when i first started on the FM Series which is no longer there to come back and "put me on my arse" (as someone said).

I should have spent longer constructing my original post in more detail but i am a busy man these days and don't normally have much time to post which is why i posted links to other threads.

Honestly, there is ALOT of good points about FM2008 but the bad points ruin it. I can't be bothered writing out everyone of them but some have been mentioned in this topic and others. I do still play FM2008 but i can't play it for longer than 40mins, its just plain boring now, no matter how in-depth or realistic it is.

Can i also just say, i never said i was a fan of Fifa Manager 2008. I said it was catching up and had alot more features being implemented. It does have its bugs and i agree the family/kids/golf is a bit far fetched but put them aside and you have a 'slick looking' & 'Easy-to-use' game due to the less text based system and a fantasticly implemented skin. Its newspaper styles ect are good but repetitive, same as fm08 tho.

I honestly think taking some ideas out of Fifa Manager 2008 and putting them onto FM08 you could have a dynamite game.

Its time football manager 2008 took the step upto the next generation. Look beyond releasing the same looking game every year and do something new. I would rather not see a 3D match engine but their is other ways to make it better. Use the good old imagination. FM08 needs a new look.

I am sorry if i have unintentionally offended anyone out there. Being a fan of the franchise i feel i should be able to voice my concerns over the future of the game. I don't mind constructive critisism but somethings that have been said are 'harsh'. I do take into account that i could have been harsh 'commenting' on a game that is not released. Judging by the past tho i was worried i was only going to recieve the same game with the same layout and style that i am starting to get bored of quickly.

By the sounds of it this game could be hugely changed and better than ever before for FM2009. However, if FMLive (which i dont like) is anything to go by, it wont be. Thats my fear.

*Continue the debate*

[Ackter]

Is FIFA really that easy to use?

08 wasn't easier in my experience, it was just different. They were also so concerned at giving it all pretty graphics that it can be very hard to navigate to where you want to go without a map.

Championship Manager is probably the worst of the 3 main ones with ease-of-use. I tried last year's game and it honest-to-god took me almost 15 minutes to find the off button. It was in a menu that I didn't even realise was a menu until I clicked on it by accident.

[Spikester]

Well, one thing i've noticed is that Football Manager is becoming more complex each year, which some people may enjoy, but for me, it just makes the game harder. I've been a fan of the series since CM3, but find myself getting less and less interested in Football manager, mainly because I find it more difficult to play it these days. So i'm hoping that FM09 will be a little easier than the last few previous installments.

Steve

[n0va]

I thought it was. To be honest i quit waisting time on Championship Manager about 2 yrs ago. Its just worthless. Reminds me of Premier Manager.

I got to admit, i can't believe how much attention this thread has brought. I am just eager to hear other peoples thoughts. I appreciate that the thread was re-opened. It can only be a good thing.

[George Graham]

I don't agree that what NOVA said is totally pointless.

Making prediction based on past observations is a quite useful sometimes.

But as the SI guys implied that he was wrong, it seems FM09 would be an impressive one.

They said that about FM08 though.

The version that was released was nothing short of a disgrace- and the 3 month gap between that an us receiving an acceptable (not brilliant) version showed how premature the original release was.

I hope Im wrong and FM09 is a return to form, but after FM08 it should be no surprise that people are sceptical about the quality of the next release, especially as it wasnt as if FM08 had any new features that made you think "wow!".

The sales may well be there but this is down to brand loyalty and lack of any real competition. The latter isnt SIs fault but for this gamer his loyalty to the SI brand has taken a major hit over the last couple of releases.

[Asjo]

I guess those expressing regret, complaint or predicting a dissapointing release can be divided into the following categories:

• People desperately wanting a specific feature implanted or a specific part of the game amended to their needs. These people are idealists and feel it's hard to enjoy the game if it doesn't reflect their exact idea of it.
  
• People worried about the "commercialism" of SI. With the Collyer brothers endowed by their sale of their company to SEGA, people may feel that the passion for a perfect football management simulation game is dying out and that the company is changing its direction. It feels as if SI are simply trying to keep the success going by "pumping" out meaningless new versions with weak features that are heartlessly implemented. Instead of trying to create the best possible game, these people feel that SI are going for what's popular. This is fuelled by the upcoming release of FM Live, a seemingly "hollow" game. It is something they have experienced paralleled by several other games and developers, especially now with mass multiplayer gaming on the rise and a broadening of the gaming audience for the last 5-10 years.
  
• People frustrated that more frequently flaws in the game are keeping them from enjoying it. New additions in the game shift the balance to the worse as they expand on game mechanisms without the necessary adoptation or take time away from the contant improvement of the existing gameplay. These people have spent unseeming amounts of time on playing the game, only to find that flaws (bugs, imbalances, etc.) turn everything around and make them lose everything they have fought for in the game, or they see the game turn meaningless with gamealtering mechanisms (newgens, AI squad handling, attribute development, etc.) slowly taking the game apart, removing the logic that they lean on when playing.
  
• People having played the game enough to exhaust their excitement about it. They don't have a lot of logical arguements as to why the game should change dramatically, but cannot imagine playing any other game or spending less time on FM. Because of this drive, they don't feel that a "slighly" improved game is giving them value for money, and constantly demand new, visible features.
  

All of these people love the game, they appreciate the insight that has allowed SI to make a game in such delightful detail, opening up a new appreciation for football management simulation. They would easily be able to enjoy it, but all have thoughts that keep them back. I would say I'm a little of each, although probably not the latter and mostly the idealist. I'm really greatful for SI creating such a great game, and yet I feel that I cannot enjoy playing it if certain things are not fixed and that certain features never added diminish my pleasure. For FM 2009, I desperately want Serie D and to a lesser extent the Russian Second Division to be added. I really want the newgens to be pefect and for the game to be able to maintain a useful balance through the passing of many seasons. I also want the match-engine to be more enjoyable and realistic so that I can be bothered to watch the full 90 minutes of my games. It scares me a bit to think that the game was better at this in some of the earlier versions. I think I would be able to enjoy all the good things about the game nonetheless, but as FM has come to be so close to my heart, I have a very strong feeling about every detail. In CM 00/01, I think, I had my first try at creating the perfect savegame that I could play forever and which fitted all my needs, however, due to my use of savegame editors, it became corrupted. In FM 2005, my friend and I tried again, making a game with all the necessary database modicications, every league and player included, and yet we ended up feeling that the game fell short on a handful areas and that we had made several mistakes in "constructing" the savegame. So, since then, we have waited desperately for this release of FM to once again create the ultimate hot seat game for us to play forever, and are waiting in exasperation. Right now in our early twenties, we can easily see ourselves still playing at sixty.

I hate for SI to have the people complaining bring them down. It seems that a younger crowd and new "spoiled" fans (having joined the community late, not knowing having any background for judging the current state of the game) has made the rapport between the fans and the SI team harder to maintain and have made these forums less tenable. If I ever have complained too much, I will make sure to make it up by making detailed comments and providing constructive criticism once I really get into FM 2009. I don't doubt that SI are capable and devoted, this just feel like the last chance. Those who don't love FM as much, will just keep quiet and find another game.

[FrostyTheBush]

FM09 will be...

A letdown, like it is every year. We'll all still buy & play it though

[urbanjunkie]

I'd just like to add that I've already organised a time slot with Game for when I'll be taking back my copy of FM2009 and requesting a full refund. It's pencilled in a day after my 'on holiday' game within FM proves the discovery of countless bugs deeming the game unplayable.

I'm going to spend the refunded cash on cola-bottles. Cola-bottles never let me down with their sugary sugar delights.

[GillsMan]

FM09 will be...

A letdown, like it is every year. We'll all still buy & play it though

If it was a letdown every year, sales would be suffering. Consumers aren't complete idiots.

As for me, I'm seriously considering not buying FM09 this year...but only because I'm still enjoying FM08 so much.

[crossriver]

Who cares if its an update with a few features I'll buy it.

How sad, so how about giving the money away to some third world country for some real benefit?

Your opinion, only yours!

[smithers08]

Fm09 will be .....

a surprise

[Necrodeemus]

I will be buying FM09, first time ive brought the any incarnation of the series since I emmigrated to a none football liking nation (May have to buy it online.. NOOOOOOOOOOOES!)

Ive been playing the series since CM Italia on Amiga, so ive been playing a while, 09 will be a upgrade, I know that, it always is a upgrade, how much of a upgrade, i dunno, tbh I dont care.. I have wishes, we all have wishes, but I am truely a SI fanboy, like the rest of us!

Only one thing will hurt 09 and SI in my honest opinion, is if the gold product is as buggy as last year. We have alot of large companies out there namEing no nAmes, that continually release big games that require patches, straight away, patches that make the game playable..

I dont expect a buggy free product, its impossible, unless you have 100,000 test team, it aint gonna happen. However I do expect a game that comes out of the box that I can play, and ENJOY the experience of playing knowing that anybug i do stumble across although annoying will not impact on the playability of the game. Which unfortunately as history shows, SI really dropped the ball last year. The game worked, but was it enjoyable to the masses until the patch? I dont believe it was and general consensous on the boards was it wasn't either.

That for me was the most dissapointing thing about last years release, if they can not make that happen again, no other game will steal my attention

[SirTodge]

there namEing no nAmes

ahhhh, i see what he's done there. very clever!

but i heartily agree that while nobody releases a completly bug free game, big scarey bugs in the gold release just really annoy people.

[Mr Sandman]

two new features, likely PA and preferred numbers.

poor!

[Legion22]

To be absolutely honest, I really would not mind in the slightest if FM09 was simply FM08 with fixes and a little more polish. If the media, fan and board interactions were improved and the match engine tweaked, I would be more than happy. Although having specific crowd chants would be nice.

[SCIAG]

Preferred numbers will be added soon, maybe not FM09 but it will be added within a few versions. Probably. A head researcher was suggesting some possible numbers for players but then deleted his posts about it.

Researchers have also been asked to fill in ethnicity and hair colour for players- take that to mean what you want.

One thing I'd really like though, is having all news items in the same inbox. I don't know why they were split, but it really spoilt the game for me (along with the new ME and a few other things).

I will buy 09 unless it's a shambles (which I doubt it will be). I've been playing 07, so 09 will probably be a huge leap.

Regens/newgens/FREDs need tweaking in the upward direction- 07's regen system was pretty much perfect. I'd also like to see interaction improved.

I have every faith in SI to produce a game of high quality.

[death]

Football Manager 2009 will be the best bloody game that ever drew bloody breath. I think.

[GillsMan]

Football Manager 2009 will be the best bloody game that ever drew bloody breath. I think.

Apart from GTA IV, which I'm too excited about for words (no console here - PC only).

[turnip]

Even if I'm unlikely to play FM09 straight after I get it, I'll still probably pre-order it.

Does that make me a shameless fanboi?

No, it's brand loyalty, first and foremost.

I've enjoyed pretty much every version of CM/FM I've played (since CM2) and which leaves me no reason to doubt that I'll enjoy FM09.

The problem for those of you who want sweeping changes is that those sweeping changes are often accompanied by drastic drops in quality. It took SI two iterations to get the 2D engine looking like real football and the first of those (CM4, I think) wasn't released until 7 months after the season had started. A lot of people who bought the following year's release felt hard done by at having to spend £60 on the same game within 6 months.

Personally, I'm more than happy for SI to continue introducing new elements year on year and then improving those elements year on year as they feel the need to. If, after getting months of feedback from addle-brained scat monkeys on the forums (and sifting through the mountains of crap in the Bugs forum), they are still happy with the way a feature is working, I'm happy for them to keep it as it is.

Because although I may be unhappy when my keeper concedes a goal from a misdirected 75-yard pass from the opposition fullback, I'd rather I see it because the 2D display isn't quite capable of reflecting the intricacies of the match engine than because the match engine is restricted by a 3D display.

[Petros7]

Once I got used to the skin, I made my peace with it.

Haha... I made peace with it alright (when Steklo was released)!

------------------------------------------------------

'Before you can score you must first have a goal' - Greek proverb.

[WoIfsong]

Even if I'm unlikely to play FM09 straight after I get it, I'll still probably pre-order it.

Does that make me a shameless fanboi?

No, it's brand loyalty, first and foremost.

I've enjoyed pretty much every version of CM/FM I've played (since CM2) and which leaves me no reason to doubt that I'll enjoy FM09.

The problem for those of you who want sweeping changes is that those sweeping changes are often accompanied by drastic drops in quality. It took SI two iterations to get the 2D engine looking like real football and the first of those (CM4, I think) wasn't released until 7 months after the season had started. A lot of people who bought the following year's release felt hard done by at having to spend £60 on the same game within 6 months.

Personally, I'm more than happy for SI to continue introducing new elements year on year and then improving those elements year on year as they feel the need to. If, after getting months of feedback from addle-brained scat monkeys on the forums (and sifting through the mountains of crap in the Bugs forum), they are still happy with the way a feature is working, I'm happy for them to keep it as it is.

Because although I may be unhappy when my keeper concedes a goal from a misdirected 75-yard pass from the opposition fullback, I'd rather I see it because the 2D display isn't quite capable of reflecting the intricacies of the match engine than because the match engine is restricted by a 3D display.

"Brand Loyalty" is concept created by business men for the purpose of making consumers blindly purchase products of the same brand, irrespective of its quality or price. It is of course your choice whether to happily accept that concept or not.

[damienroden]

the op messed up pretty bad, anyone who critises fm and praises fifa manager in the same thread doesnt deserve an opinion, he is a shallow little boy who prefers everything to look pretty rather than it actually being challenging to play. and a overhaul? get real, no need for it at all, just fix the things that went wrong last time, it did go wrong but at least they attempted to fix it, not that many games i play have team members active on the forums a year after the game was released.

[Jimbokav1971]

I don't have a problem with people criticising the game, (in fact I've been known to be pretty critical myself), however, and it is a pretty big however, (and by pretty big I mean absolutely flippin enormous), the original poster criticising the game before it has even been finished, (never mind about him actually playing it, is about as ridiculously stupid as Spurs selling Defoe, Keane and Berbs and keeping that overpriced and over-rated buffoon Bent.

That there are so many people in this thread willing to back him up just reminds me why I now spend less and less time on these forums.

I can't really be bothered to go through all the features that have been introduced over the last few issues but I can easily list a few feadtures that have been introduced that impact my own particular game.

Variable reputation. Obviously it still needs to go further than it does now, but taking the first steps, (in FM07 I think), then they at least have set their stall out and laid down the direction that the game will be going in.

Expert Eleven. I love this feature. It again requires more work, (won't go into that now), but it's something that I REALLY look forward to looking at each season and has become a big part of my game.

Confidence received a bit of an overhaul in FM08 and caused no amount of problems with the changes, however once again it it an example of SI trying to take the game forward in significant manner.

In terms of the match engine, (although it was pretty shocking with FM08 out of the box), the match engine post latest patch replicates pretty accurately, the lower league football that I watch every week. I can't comment on top class football because it's a few issues since I ran a big club or an International team. In any case, what I see from the latest patch gives me reason for optimisim. I'm also hopeful that the mistakes made with the changes close to release last year and the subsequent patches can be placed firmly in the "lessons learned" box so that we might not see them again.

Facegen is a feature that has been implemented over the last few issues. It is something that I initially thought would be a complete gimmick, (I used to play with pictures off), but I have warmed to this system and I see it now as an improvement to the game.

Playable leagues. When I first started playing CM/FM, my local club, (then in Conference) were not in the game and instead I had to pick...... Swansea I think it was:D. Now We can not only manage a team in the Conference National, but also the Conference North/South. Obviously other leages have been added and I'm sure more are in the pipeline all the time.

First we had Regens, then it was Newgens and now we have FRED's which is a complete overhaul of an existing and complicated in need of constant improvementb and advancement as other areas of the game advance them sleves.

There was significant work done pre FM08 release which dealt the with user interface and the "clickability" of everything. The fact that you don't notice this now may mean that you have just got used to the way it is, but it also might be evidence of some decent work in planning what button goes where.

Feeder clubs is a feature that was added into the game over the last few issues, (although poorly in my opinion), but it is once again and exemple of the forward thinking and direction that the SI intend to move the game in.

It honestly astounds me, how anyone can fail to see the significant advancements that have been made in the "scouting" are and the impact this has on the long term playability of the game. For God's sake scouts were next to useless only a few issues ago. How quickly so many of you forget.

Finances are also something that are being looked at and tweaked on a regular basis. Obviously this is an area that needs to be handled with kid gloves as it impact on so many other areas of the game, but just 1 recent example of this is the introduction of the ability to "adjust budgest" within existing overall levels.

Now don't get me wrong, some of these areas still require significant work, but for the original poster, (and others), to comment that the game is the same game each year honetly makes me think that some of you have never actually played the game and are just posting on here for a laugh.

If you have an individual problem with the game then upload your saves to teh "ftp" and report it in the bugs forum and then rather just whinging and moaning you can play your part in working out a solution. I promise you that when something is fixed as a result of you contributing to the testing teams information, (even in a small way), the the feeling of satisfaction you get is simply immense.

If you would prefer to waste your time in pointless and innane posts of complaint about a product that you have neither seen nor played rather than be pr-active, then I guess you should continue as you are.

Just don't be surprised to receive fewer and fewer responces to your ridiculous posts.