Champions of Europe 2012/13 Thread

[football_master_94]

4 points off top when old ****face took over. 19 now. reckon we're in for 5th place tbh, so bad every ****ing game it's embarrassing.

and yes because he has no idea how to make subs. there is no way you can defend him after this ****. players obviously have blame at their feet too but he doesn't exactly help with his ridiculous ineptitude.

What about his subs? He brought on two players off the bench who could've potentially made a difference to the game. I don't think Hazard should've come off but Lampard was terrible today and the only reason Ramires stayed on is because he is more dynamic.

That being said, we score the pen and the game is completely different (along with Hart getting sent off)

What match are you watching if you think Mikel had a good game? I love Mikel but he has been awful today. His tracking of midfield runs has been atrocious and the less said about his attempted tackle for Toure's goal the better.

He made a few last ditch tackles to prevent City from scoring/creating a goalscoring chance and his passing was very good today. Think it's harsh to lay responsibility down on the Touré goal down to him as both he and Lampard got sold by Touré's touch and Cahill should've closed him down and prevented the shot.

[jmr]

Benitez gonna be blamed for this again?

Ofcourse he is, unless you think these players are this bad? He isn't getting anything out of them. Also picking and sticking with Ramires when he's having the worst game I've seen from a Chelsea player in a long time is madness. That doesn't absolve the players, but there's obviously something going wrong with the manager.

[tcoleman1]

Tbh the players should do a lot more, especially with their quality but let's take nothing away from Benitez, he is ****ing awful for us. He subs are rubbish, his tactics don't work. We were playing nowhere near this badly when RDM was in charge. Benitez would have been sacked long ago if we hadn't already sacked someone this season.

Hate losing against City as well. Thought Hart could have gone for the penalty but he wasn't the last man/debatable whether it was a goal scoring chance. Also love the fact it took 86 mins and 2 goals for the Etihad to actually make some noise. Nearly as bad as bloody Arsenal.

Also I love Rambo to bits but he should have been taken off not Hazard. When he's not having a good game his passing if off and he lacks confidence.

[Bracken]

What about his subs? He brought on two players off the bench who could've potentially made a difference to the game. I don't think Hazard should've come off but Lampard was terrible today and the only reason Ramires stayed on is because he is more dynamic.

That being said, we score the pen and the game is completely different (along with Hart getting sent off)

Lamps didn't have his best game but Ramires was ****ing dreadful and he'd been booked. Yes Frank should've scored the pen (cracking save though) but equally Ramires was through and ****ed about with it and didn't even get a shot away. The players he brought on were good choices, but he did it too late - he only ever makes reactive subs, never proactive ones - and for the wrong players. At least Lampard might've grabbed a goal, Ramires gave the ball away to cost us one instead.

I love Rambo, but right now he's so far from the player he was last season that he needs to sit out a few matches

[thegr8anand]

The only reason I can think of keeping Ramires was that he can cover back but we were 1-0 down and Hazard was doing better than him and had only played a few minutes last game. That made no sense at all.

And yea our delivery with corners and free kicks was poor. In the second half quite a few times the players had the ball in their penalty box but didn't fcking know what to do. So furious right now.

[ReggaeBwoy]

Got what we deserved, basically set out for a draw. We havent created a thing apart from one lump up the pitch for a penalty.

This. Awful performance. They had Kompany out and we never really looked to exploit them once apart from one over the top ball which got us the penalty. Man City were deserved winners by far.

[football_master_94]

Ofcourse he is, unless you think these players are this bad? He isn't getting anything out of them. Also picking and sticking with Ramires when he's having the worst game I've seen from a Chelsea player in a long time is madness. That doesn't absolve the players, but there's obviously something going wrong with the manager.

Well we setup to counter-attack today and it was working until Lampard's missed pen.

To use the cliche, the penalty was the turning point in the game (the whole incident). If Lampard slots the pen away, we may well be coming away with three points today. Also, the players need to get some criticism as some performances today were absolutely diabolically bad.

[jmr]

Seriously though, Ramires was so bad. I don't even know if Torres has ever put a performance in as bad as that one.

Well we setup to counter-attack today and it was working until Lampard's missed pen.

Haha, you are being far too generous with the counter-attack setup. We were just really **** and created no chances at all, literally. I have no belief that we set up to counter.

[mag man]

I don't understand resting Terry today and not in one of the easier games. Poor management.

[Robokid87]

Lamps didn't have his best game but Ramires was ****ing dreadful and he'd been booked. Yes Frank should've scored the pen (cracking save though) but equally Ramires was through and ****ed about with it and didn't even get a shot away. The players he brought on were good choices, but he did it too late - he only ever makes reactive subs, never proactive ones - and for the wrong players. At least Lampard might've grabbed a goal, Ramires gave the ball away to cost us one instead.

I love Rambo, but right now he's so far from the player he was last season that he needs to sit out a few matches

Yeah this, not to mention the fact that Mata was completely dead on his feet and has slipped down a bit over the last few games because of it (similar to Silva last season) yet he stayed on and Hazard went off despite actually looking like he could do something. Also he doesn't seem to understand that taking off your central midfield for attackers isn't a viable tactic.

[mag man]

Benitez is such a ****ing **** manager.

[Bracken]

Well we setup to counter-attack today and it was working until Lampard's missed pen.

To use the cliche, the penalty was the turning point in the game (the whole incident). If Lampard slots the pen away, we may well be coming away with three points today. Also, the players need to get some criticism as some performances today were absolutely diabolically bad.

If we had set up to counter, we would've actually put players in the box for corners. We didn't, we had 3 in there until we conceded. We didn't set up to counter, we set up to defend. If we wanted to counter, Azpilicueta would've been at right back with Ivanovic at CB (in fact, however he wanted us to play, this is how we should've started) but we didn't, because the man is a ****wit.

Yeah this, not to mention the fact that Mata was completely dead on his feet and has slipped down a bit over the last few games because of it (similar to Silva last season) yet he stayed on and Hazard went off despite actually looking like he could do something. Also he doesn't seem to understand that taking off your central midfield for attackers isn't a viable tactic.

Yeah Juan really needs a rest, I would've preferred to have seen him go off to Oscar, then Oscar gets to play in his preferred position and Mata could've had a little rest at least.

[el sid]

Knew we would lose. Knew Tevez would score. Pity Lampard couldn't score and get closer to the record

[el sid]

We also played like a bunch of pussies. I mean City had conceded 12 fouls by the time we made our first. Man up ffs.

[jmr]

Rafa is the worst manager in the league. I just went through all of them in my head and there's no one worse and no one I wouldn't replace him with.

[el sid]

Would love to know on what basis Rafa Benitez still has the job. No one else wanting it?

[el sid]

Rafa is the worst manager in the league. I just went through all of them in my head and there's no one worse and no one I wouldn't replace him with.

Would have Avram ****ing Grant instead

[Robokid87]

Emenalo for manager.

[Bracken]

Just make Roman takes his badges and let him manage. He basically does anyway and it would be funny for a week or two.

[football_master_94]

Avram Grant

Jesus. Get a grip.

[Robokid87]

Yeah, so bad we got to a CL final under him...

[jmr]

I do think Grant would be better, because he'd just leave everything to the coaches JT and Lampard, like he did when we got to the CL Final.

[football_master_94]

Yeah, so bad we got to a CL final under him...

So good that we got beaten by Barnsley in the FA Cup. His input towards the CL run was minimal.

Overreaction to say he's the worst manager in the league, too.

[Robokid87]

If his input in the CL run was minimal surely his input to the Barnsley defeat was minimal too? I'm not saying he's a great manager by any means but I'd genuinely rather have someone who, as jmr said left it to the people who knew what they were doing best and just oversaw everything then the clown currently in charge.

[Bracken]

So good that we got beaten by Barnsley in the FA Cup. His input towards the CL run was minimal.

Overreaction to say he's the worst manager in the league, too.

Maybe he's not the worst, but the fact that he's a contender says a lot.

[jmr]

Overreaction to say he's the worst manager in the league, too.

It's not, he really is. Big Sam was close but even he is more progressive than Rafa.

[football_master_94]

It's not, he really is. Big Sam was close but even he is more progressive than Rafa.

It really is. That's absolute garbage and you know it.

[jmr]

Please name me 3 managers he is better than. He's an utter **** manager and a horrible **** to boot.

[Bracken]

I have honestly seen nothing that has changed the opinion of him I had when he was at liverpool; good coach, awful manager

[Robert the Spud]

Rafa is the worst manager in the league. I just went through all of them in my head and there's no one worse and no one I wouldn't replace him with.

Please name me 3 managers he is better than. He's an utter **** manager and a horrible **** to boot.

I'll take that one, seeing as your opinion is so ****ing ignorant and denotes a horrible lack of intelligence on your part;

Lambert, Pardew, Pulis, Hughton, O'Neill, Allardyce for starters. But then again it's pretty futile to compare anyway, because despite these managers not winning anything they have never managed bigger clubs than what they currently have.

Benitez record at Valencia and Liverpool basically renders your moronic little outburst as totally obsolete. Worst manager in the league...what godawful perspective you have

[Robokid87]

I see a lot of people mentioning how Benitez must be a good manager because of Valencia and Liverpool but surely his failure at Inter is more relevant? More recent plus a situation more similar to ours (European champs, some ageing players not necessarily well replaced, nutcase owner)

[Falahk]

I'll take that one, seeing as your opinion is so ****ing ignorant and denotes a horrible lack of intelligence on your part;

Lambert, Pardew, Pulis, Hughton, O'Neill, Allardyce for starters. But then again it's pretty futile to compare anyway, because despite these managers not winning anything they have never managed bigger clubs than what they currently have.

Benitez record at Valencia and Liverpool basically renders your moronic little outburst as totally obsolete. Worst manager in the league...what godawful perspective you have

tbf Newcastle is a larger club then Norwich

[jmr]

Benitez record at Valencia and Liverpool basically renders your moronic little outburst as totally obsolete. Worst manager in the league...what godawful perspective you have

And what does that record do for him now you idiot? You sound like the moronic Liverpool fans that still think he is a good manager. Let's not forget there were loads of Liverpool fans that wanted him out as well. Let's not forget he turned a CL winning Inter team to **** just 2 months later. So yeah, that record at Valencia 10 years ago? Sit down you ****ing idiot.

[Bracken]

Also that he had the best team in the League when he was at Liverpool, Gerrard, Macherano, Alonso, Torres basically all at their peak, and he still ****ed it up and finished 2nd. If he hadn't buggered around and stuck with a consistent team they would've been champions, but he didn't. He also ensured that Alonso left, along with a few others, because of his **** poor man management.

As I say, good coach, awful manager.

[football_master_94]

I see a lot of people mentioning how Benitez must be a good manager because of Valencia and Liverpool but surely his failure at Inter is more relevant? More recent plus a situation more similar to ours (European champs, some ageing players not necessarily well replaced, nutcase owner)

Well, the players were all declining post Mourinho - the likes of Maicon, J.Cesar, Lúcio were all god awful post WC - but I don't get why his Inter spell weighs that heavily. It was a 20 game spell that ended in failure but can't be used to discredit his achievements.

Yeah, he's not great or wanted here but some of the over the top exagerrations are pretty silly.

[aggressive minor]

Also that he had the best team in the League when he was at Liverpool, Gerrard, Macherano, Alonso, Torres basically all at their peak, and he still ****ed it up and finished 2nd. If he hadn't buggered around and stuck with a consistent team they would've been champions, but he didn't. He also ensured that Alonso left, along with a few others, because of his **** poor man management.

As I say, good coach, awful manager.

Wow, I understand people here don't like Benitez here and his stock has fallen greatly recently (and rightly so based on his recent jobs) but seriously? All those Liverpool players he brought in, except Gerrard who clearly played the best football of his career under Benitez around 05-09. And look at the Man Utd squad for 08-09, ie the season Liverpool finished 2nd, it was absolutely immense and stocked with depth all over the place, they clearly were better equipped to win league.

As is often the case the truth is somewhere in between the people claiming he is the worst manager around and those still putting him on a pedestal. His achievements over the previous decade during his time at Valencia and his time at Liverpool barring this last season have to go down as very good. His short spans at Chelsea and Inter have been poor no doubt, but some of the criticism has been over the top, he has had a poisonous atmosphere to deal with at Chelsea which was never going to get better and as for Inter, I don't think it was ever going to work out taking over a very old team that had just peaked for the CL triumph- I am not saying he hasn't made mistakes either at those clubs- he has failed at both tbh which rightly goes against him.

[Robokid87]

What do you mean by poisonous atmosphere? Before he took over or because he took over?

[Bracken]

Wow, I understand people here don't like Benitez here and his stock has fallen greatly recently (and rightly so based on his recent jobs) but seriously? All those Liverpool players he brought in, except Gerrard who clearly played the best football of his career under Benitez around 05-09. And look at the Man Utd squad for 08-09, ie the season Liverpool finished 2nd, it was absolutely immense and stocked with depth all over the place, they clearly were better equipped to win league.

As is often the case the truth is somewhere in between the people claiming he is the worst manager around and those still putting him on a pedestal. His achievements over the previous decade during his time at Valencia and his time at Liverpool barring this last season have to go down as very good. His short spans at Chelsea and Inter have been poor no doubt, but some of the criticism has been over the top, he has had a poisonous atmosphere to deal with at Chelsea which was never going to get better and as for Inter, I don't think it was ever going to work out taking over a very old team that had just peaked for the CL triumph- I am not saying he hasn't made mistakes either at those clubs.

Fair enough United did have a great squad, it was the year before Ronaldo really made it I think? but with the players he had at his disposal (not denying he bought them, or at least had a very strong influence in buying them, and he did buy well, as well as a few shockers), he should've won more than he did. Everyone goes on about his achievements at Liverpool, yet he spent a lot of money and had one FA Cup to show for it. The CL was won with a squad that wasn't his, not taking away from that achievement, it was superb, but when he had control and spent a lot of cash, he won one FA Cup.

[kpain16]

What's most depressing thing about it all is that it was obvious this isn't gonna work out even before he was hired. You simply can't hire a manager that's despised by 90% of the fans. It was a terrible decision, it is a terrible decision and it will still be a terrible decision until they get rid of him. There was nothing he could do to make amends. Literally nothing. Chelsea won it all, seen it all and all he could do was to get the **** out.

[YOUNGSTEVE]

tbf Newcastle is a larger club then Norwich

Ditto Allardyce who was also manager there. I hope West Ham fans don't take this the wrong way.

[mag man]

Any other manager would have been sacked for getting the results Benitez has had in his spell. We are now closer to not making the top 4 than at any other time this season and we seem to be going backwards rather than forwards.

Benitez has poorly rotated the squad: There was no need to line up with our strongest players in some of the cup games and we should be playing our strongest defence away to Man City, John Terry being on the bench today was a joke.

He makes poor substitutions, often waiting far to long to make a change and then making odd changes when he does. Right back on when we need to score goals, or today swapping everyone around to bring on Torres rather than just subbing Ramires.

The team look so disorganised and a shambles defensively. I thought he prided himself on being solid at the back.... we have got worse there and have now lost any attacking intent from our play.

[mag man]

The football board or whatever they're called should never have hired him in the first place and are due a lot of criticism for the state the club is in at the moment. They have also allowed the squad depth to dwindle and have not reinforced in areas where they are obviously needed.

[Tony7]

Fair enough United did have a great squad, it was the year before Ronaldo really made it I think? but with the players he had at his disposal (not denying he bought them, or at least had a very strong influence in buying them, and he did buy well, as well as a few shockers), he should've won more than he did. Everyone goes on about his achievements at Liverpool, yet he spent a lot of money and had one FA Cup to show for it. The CL was won with a squad that wasn't his, not taking away from that achievement, it was superb, but when he had control and spent a lot of cash, he won one FA Cup.

I disagree I think when he had money to spend he bought decent players but he had to buy a lot of free transfers or players under £5 million who were very poor. I also think if he was not as negative we would have beaten United to the title.

Reina, Alonso, Garcia, Crouch, Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Torres, Mascherano, Lucas, Benayoun. Would have signed Aguero but Rick Parry thought £15 million to much for a teenager. David Villa but Rick Parry thought £7 million was too much for a player who had not played international football and Rick Parry also thought £10 million was too much for Daniel Alves.

I do think he is a negative manager and his man management is poor.

[football_master_94]

What do you mean by poisonous atmosphere? Before he took over or because he took over?

I reckon most people that aren't Chelsea fans that look from afar at our club would say both, I guess.

[Bracken]

I disagree I think when he had money to spend he bought decent players but he had to buy a lot of free transfers or players under £5 million who were very poor. I also think if he was not as negative we would have beaten United to the title.

Reina, Alonso, Garcia, Crouch, Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Torres, Mascherano, Lucas, Benayoun. Would have signed Aguero but Rick Parry thought £15 million to much for a teenager. David Villa but Rick Parry thought £7 million was too much for a player who had not played international football and Rick Parry also thought £10 million was too much for Daniel Alves.

I do think he is a negative manager and his man management is poor.

I notice you leave out Pennant, Robbie Keane, Morientes, Bellamy, Babel, Aquilani, Riera and a few others. He did spend a lot of money, I think a lot of people forget just how much cash he splashed around, for the return he got it's not such a fantastic record. But we'll agree that he's a negative manager and his man management is poor

[skybluedave]

Haha. Robbie Keane. What a clusterf*ck of a signing that was. Gerrard and Torres had been a great partnership. They were crying out for a left sided attacker to complete their attack and they *****ed their budget on a guy who they couldn't play without changing their system.

Was Parry though iirc.....

[Select_screen_name:]

I can see there's been a mental breakdown in this thread. How many pages do I have to go back to enjoy it?

[Bracken]

Not really a mental breakdown, the Benitez hate goes back a lot more years than just this thread

[jmr]

Haha. Robbie Keane. What a clusterf*ck of a signing that was. Gerrard and Torres had been a great partnership. They were crying out for a left sided attacker to complete their attack and they *****ed their budget on a guy who they couldn't play without changing their system.

Was Parry though iirc.....

All bad signings = Parry

All good signings = Rafa masterstroke

That is what I've learned from Liverpool fans over the years.

[Bracken]

All bad signings = Parry

All good signings = Rafa masterstroke

That is what I've learned from Liverpool fans over the years.

I was gonna post something similar if one of them commented on the crap signings I posted earlier