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The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread: Thank you, Sir Alex


ddidiodion

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Common sense has no place in black/white issues dion! And it especially has no place on the internet.

If you are intentionally spreading your hands then it's obviously intentional. If you have your hands out wide naturally then there's no foul to be had. That's just not how the game is reffed most of the time as you'll way too often see a ball kicked into a hand and a foul given. Which is nonsense. Then you'll hear the pundits go on about it being a great decision and you have to give those. Which is also nonsense.

So... How about that Nani, eh? :p

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Common sense has no place in black/white issues dion! And it especially has no place on the internet.

If you are intentionally spreading your hands then it's obviously intentional. If you have your hands out wide naturally then there's no foul to be had. That's just not how the game is reffed most of the time as you'll way too often see a ball kicked into a hand and a foul given. Which is nonsense. Then you'll hear the pundits go on about it being a great decision and you have to give those. Which is also nonsense.

but then thats not an "unnatural position" is it? :D

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Luiz one was no pen, was by his side and too close.

common sence comes into play.

They've been given before and his arms weren't by his side. They were spreading out as he was stopping his run. Now that's a natural reaction and a harsh pen but they're definitely given more times than they're not.

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They'll look for an unnatural position, and movement towards that position as that's the best way to work out whether it was intentional.

They're basically saying don't be fooled by the reaction to the ball hitting them (they'll always recoil it after) but think about where the hand moved from and to to make contact with the ball. If that's "unnatural" then it's quite possible the contact was intentional.

There is no rule about unnatural positions, there is a rule about intent, but one can suggest the other, so it's included in directives to help referees make the right call.

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Still not sure why Scholes didn't come in that game, of course it doesn't really matter since we have the 3 points, but yesterday there were times when he couldn't keep the ball at all. Especially after we went 3-2 up, I was shocked Scholes didn't come on to simply keep possession.

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Still not sure why Scholes didn't come in that game, of course it doesn't really matter since we have the 3 points, but yesterday there were times when he couldn't keep the ball at all. Especially after we went 3-2 up, I was shocked Scholes didn't come on to simply keep possession.

That was what the Giggs substitution was about.

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Works if he plays as a CM rather than as an AM. The 'backheel to nobody -> hands on hips' routine is mainly for the latter. And anyway it seems that Kagawa has somehow bent the time/space continuum and is able to read them, so if he's playing then it's fine.

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Not sure if anybody else are interested in this, but here is the analysis of the latest United match (URL looks very funky, but I hope it works elsewhere).

Some important points the author makes, the main one is that United were incredibly well-prepared tactically, and knew exactly what rooms to close off, and which to exploit.

*Chelsea are much faster and attack more narrow now than when they had Drogba

*they attack with many players (mainly Oscar, Mata and Hazard) in the hole (or more generally between defence and midfield)

*United therefore put many players in this area and tried to close it off. This worked very well, particularly in the first 20-30 minutes

*Cole and Ivanovic tend to be pretty advanced, while the DCs tend to be wide (much like we do really). This, combined with the above, means there are some rooms to exploit, especially when United counter

--between DCs and fullbacks (channels)

--between DCs

--between DCs and central midfield (the hole)

United wanted to put pressure on Cahill, so Luiz would be the ballplayer from the back, not vice versa.

*When United broke off the forward passes (typically this is Rio), Young were to be the outlet high up the pitch

*van Persie, Rooney and/or Valencia would then provide width and depth, drag DCs out wide, and create space in the hole

This is what happened when United took the lead, and again on 2-0.

In the second half Chelsea adapted, as one should expect. They went a bit wider, which created problems for United, and got the equaliser to 2-2.

Then we all know what happened...

Think it's great to see these analyses because they focus on tactical details it's hard to pick up while watching the game, especially on a TV with little to no proper overview shots. It also gives a slight insight into the world of football outside of just lineups. We all love to do that, but what it really comes down to is what each player does in the system that is set up, and how they interact together, both offensively and defensively. It's not a coincidence that we often see games of two halves, where perhaps one team takes the other by some tactical surprise in the first, and then the other team adapts in the second.

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Giggs? Retention of possession? Giggs? The master of the completely useless flicks?

I thought Rooney was taken off as had been booked and there was a tackle (that wasn't a yellow) that had the crowd screaming for a 2nd yellow and maybe Fergie felt any forceful challenge gives the ref a chance to 'even it up' and give him a cheap yellow and as Chelsea were down to 9 men already (IIRC) it was hardly essential that Rooney stay on

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I'll go with the official rules of the game tbf, directives sound more like the nonsense where they stamp something out for one major tournament and then it's forgotten about in a few months :D

Handballs and clueless pundits when it comes to handballs are one of my biggest bugbears. Right up there with 'last man' nonsense

When I did my referees course we were told if the hand is away from the body and the ball comes from far enough away for the defender to get it out the way to give a foul.

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I'm pretty sure we were told around 4/5 yards depending on how hard it was hit and where the arms actually were. Obviously rushing out like a goalkeeper but not moving when its struck from a yard away is still handball.

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Friend of mine says he saw Rooney in TigerTiger last night, I presume this means he's not playing tonight then.

Wouldn't have thought Rooney would be playing. is TigerTiger a club? sounds Grrrrrreat :D

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Wouldn't have thought Rooney would be playing. is TigerTiger a club? sounds Grrrrrreat :D

Yeh, they have a fairly big night on Tuesdays as well so they get quite a lot of footballers/local celebrities in there.

Not too bothered win or lose tonight, just want to see some of the younger players get some game time.

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