Letter of Grievances by some FM Fans

[milnerpoint]

I could sell my entire squad in a week playing as a top division club, that point holds very little water at all.

[billyboyeden]

Have to agree with oxford canary. What a great post !

[ringwoodrob]

It is -easier- in the lower leagues, not more difficult. The reason for this is that you can easily get rid of the entire squad in just two-three transfer windows and replace them with players good enough for two leagues above. You cannot do this in the top divisions. Thus, any lack of difficulty is related to AI squad building and club economy issues. There's a lot more transfers in real life than in FM, and the result is that the transfer market winner every season is you. Perfectly good players are unemployed until they retire because they simply won't sign for clubs in which they have a chance of playing first team football, and at the same time clubs aren't interested in signing the players who actually want to sign for them because those players don't have high enough reputation.

:)I've never started a save game higher than a Lge1 manager so would not know,my main point is,dont make the game harder as is but add another level for those who think its easey!,,,,unless your a former god at a higher div side why should you just take over?,its not realistic is it! lol

[Haribolap]

If you are so happy with your game, why do you come here to ask us to be happy with it...?

We love this game, but have grievances against it, we strongly think that a complicated game with a perfect db is how SI managed to attract us to play their game...

Today, and for some years, we feel that it is going in a strong way, trying to attract newbies more than developing a strong management simulation... You can disagree, that is your problem, not ours.

Thus we just want have a debate with SI to know if our expectations would be met again by this game. No need of debating if you love the game or not, we do not care, and that will not change our mind...

Having said that, sad to see that SI has no more interesting answers to debate with us...

[BiggusD]

I could sell my entire squad in a week playing as a top division club, that point holds very little water at all.

Yeah but could you replace them all with much better players?

[el_magico89]

I like those guys, who complain about the game being to easy and naming reasons like, I can get onto the top with team x and y within a few seasons and then, when they show some screenshots, they have a team full of hazards, lukakus, mvillas... probably the best talents and just wonder, why they the game becomes so easy after a few season. to those guys: if youre looking for a challenge, you dont even need to set your managerial reputation to very low, but take a team like villarreal and try to win the primera division in the very first season, without selling almost the whole squad, getting rid of all the dead wood and signing the super talents like hazard and so on!

thats challenge enough. in fm 11, with the right tactic, it was very easily possible. have had first seasons with atletico, everton and so on, where I finished unbeaten, but fm12 is in this case by far much more difficult, due to the "from my own view" motivation, team talk, morale problem.

[milnerpoint]

If you are so happy with your game, why do you come here to ask us to be happy with it...?

We love this game, but have grievances against it, we strongly think that a complicated game with a perfect db is how SI managed to attract us to play their game...

Today, and for some years, we feel that it is going in a strong way, trying to attract newbies more than developing a strong management simulation... You can disagree, that is your problem, not ours.

Thus we just want have a debate with SI to know if our expectations would be met again by this game. No need of debating if you love the game or not, we do not care, and that will not change our mind...

Having said that, sad to see that SI has no more interesting answers to debate with us...

Are you trying to say 10 years ago when it was much harder to find out player movements because the internet was not a freely available that the database was more up to date than it is now? Can you please provide any kind of evidence to back this up? I would say your speaking complete and utter rubbish on that one.

SI will debate where its a debatable topic, not just a rant. What could they say that Neil didnt already say in his first post that would appease you?

[milnerpoint]

Yeah but could you replace them all with much better players?

I could replace them with a squad that would achieve equally as much the first season i had them.

As always man, you take one area and go overboard with your posting, it may be more difficult than lower league but its still very possible with enough work.

[BiggusD]

I could replace them with a squad that would achieve equally as much the first season i had them.

As always man, you take one area and go overboard with your posting, it may be more difficult than lower league but its still very possible with enough work.

Fair enough, but the point wasn't the 25-new-players itself, but the fact that you can easily get hold of players you have no business getting hold of because the AI doesn't even try to compete for their signatures (in lower divisions)! In a top division, getting rid of the entire squad wouldn't be advisable because the free and cheap players will likely not be miles better than those you already have. I didn't mean it couldn't be done per se.

The challenge the OP guys speak of should be given to us through increased artificial intelligence in the transfer market and the inclusion of attacking AI tactics that aren't giant liabilities defensively, and NOT through the reputation system (which frankly is holding the entire franchise back imo).

[darkfng]

The OP seemed like a pretty heart felt attempt to start a dialogue with the SI representatives about their game. The guys that signed the letter don't appear to be your run of the mill wannabe complaint troll. They strike me as a group of people that have played and loved this game for a long time that now have a few issues with it. Surely the SI reps are on this website to encourage just such a dialogue.

I would love to see the SI reps take the OP's a little more seriously, and not assume they are just another 'Super tactic' downloading, International Rep loving, Big Team playing group of charalatans. I'm sure there are many people wondering which direction Si will go next. Will they go back and tidy up some of the issues that plague lower league managers? Deliver a shiny new Match Engine that allows for greater variation of tactics and encourages the AI manager to build a decent squad? Or do a database update and call it FM 2013?

[Guest avine]

:)I've never started a save game higher than a Lge1 manager so would not know,my main point is,dont make the game harder as is but add another level for those who think its easey!,,,,unless your a former god at a higher div side why should you just take over?,its not realistic is it! lol

I plan to retsrict my management choices in England only after the patch and no higher than Lge1 manager also,or maybe championship. Dont know why:) I let others exploit other countries and their football market-china is 1.3 billion for example, go figure. its realistic to put some limits in how you want to play the game-LLM,starting reputation etc

[Haribolap]

Are you trying to say 10 years ago when it was much harder to find out player movements because the internet was not a freely available that the database was more up to date than it is now? Can you please provide any kind of evidence to back this up? I would say your speaking complete and utter rubbish on that one.

SI will debate where its a debatable topic, not just a rant. What could they say that Neil didnt already say in his first post that would appease you?

Internet was free 10 years ago mate, less informed but free... Where do you come from mate?

And don't you think that with a so well and so much informed internet database, SI should avoid so many errors in its DB? If you don't care it's your problem, but do not bother me with your so smart answers... For me it is a major issue that hampers seriously gaming experience on a so called serious game...

[Haribolap]

Again, do not lose time to comment if it is just to say you are pretty happy in your magnificent life, I do not care about Candide and Pangloss answers (for the few that have read a bit of Voltaire...)

[sperlz]

The OP seemed like a pretty heart felt attempt to start a dialogue with the SI representatives about their game. The guys that signed the letter don't appear to be your run of the mill wannabe complaint troll. They strike me as a group of people that have played and loved this game for a long time that now have a few issues with it. Surely the SI reps are on this website to encourage just such a dialogue.

I would love to see the SI reps take the OP's a little more seriously, and not assume they are just another 'Super tactic' downloading, International Rep loving, Big Team playing group of charalatans. I'm sure there are many people wondering which direction Si will go next. Will they go back and tidy up some of the issues that plague lower league managers? Deliver a shiny new Match Engine that allows for greater variation of tactics and encourages the AI manager to build a decent squad? Or do a database update and call it FM 2013?

Very very likely this will be the case. I imagine they will have started on a new match engine... encountered numerous problems so decided it was too buggy for release this year. They will then release FM13 with the same match engine but just add a new graphic to it like giving players new haircuts or something.

[themadsheep2001]

The OP seemed like a pretty heart felt attempt to start a dialogue with the SI representatives about their game. The guys that signed the letter don't appear to be your run of the mill wannabe complaint troll. They strike me as a group of people that have played and loved this game for a long time that now have a few issues with it. Surely the SI reps are on this website to encourage just such a dialogue.

I would love to see the SI reps take the OP's a little more seriously, and not assume they are just another 'Super tactic' downloading, International Rep loving, Big Team playing group of charalatans. I'm sure there are many people wondering which direction Si will go next. Will they go back and tidy up some of the issues that plague lower league managers? Deliver a shiny new Match Engine that allows for greater variation of tactics and encourages the AI manager to build a decent squad? Or do a database update and call it FM 2013?

We already know there is development on a new ME... things like this have been covered on a number of threads.

And Oxford Canary makes an excellent point, particularly in the first paragraph

[Lawlore]

I like those guys, who complain about the game being to easy and naming reasons like, I can get onto the top with team x and y within a few seasons and then, when they show some screenshots, they have a team full of hazards, lukakus, mvillas... probably the best talents and just wonder, why they the game becomes so easy after a few season. to those guys: if youre looking for a challenge, you dont even need to set your managerial reputation to very low, but take a team like villarreal and try to win the primera division in the very first season, without selling almost the whole squad, getting rid of all the dead wood and signing the super talents like hazard and so on!

thats challenge enough. in fm 11, with the right tactic, it was very easily possible. have had first seasons with atletico, everton and so on, where I finished unbeaten, but fm12 is in this case by far much more difficult, due to the "from my own view" motivation, team talk, morale problem.

But surely this is the key problem- it shouldn't be down to the user to place artificial restrictions on the game to make it behave like the real world? There are maybe 10 clubs who could realistically sign the likes of Lukaku, Villa, Hazard, Ronaldo, but in FM that's just not true, if you've got the money. Hazard would not sign for Villareal, so why should the manager need to put his own restriction on signing him? Likewise, as mentioned, quality players ending up as free agents and retiring in their 20's- it is tough to believe so many players would choose to be unemployed for seasons at a time, rather than lower their demands to join a club of their standing at a lower wage. Selling players isn't the easiest in the world, granted, but it shouldn't be as easy to overhaul your entire squad for a better one as it is.

And the frustrating thing to me is that this is a new issue- as I say, it's a balance that had always previously been pretty spot on.

[MrPompey]

I seem to have been misunderstood further up. I did not say "Play without making transfers". I just said that playing within your transfer budget without skewing it with 48 month payments, and not just buying the players identified on the forum will often lead to a more balanced and challenging game.

This statement appears a little niaive. Do you really think that in the real world of football transfers that when a transfer occurs it is ALWAYS paid on one big lump?

I think perhaps you need to observe the real world a bit more.

Additionally my experience of FM transfers is that yes, you can spread player purchase payments over a long period but ONLY if you have the full amount of money in your bak account to start with. perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong here

[FrazT]

Again, do not lose time to comment if it is just to say you are pretty happy in your magnificent life, I do not care about Candide and Pangloss answers (for the few that have read a bit of Voltaire...)

You have every right to raise your concerns- posters with the opposite views have equally the same right to express theirs

[milnerpoint]

Internet was free 10 years ago mate, less informed but free... Where do you come from mate?

And don't you think that with a so well and so much informed internet database, SI should avoid so many errors in its DB? If you don't care it's your problem, but do not bother me with your so smart answers... For me it is a major issue that hampers seriously gaming experience on a so called serious game...

Lol

10 years ago the net was far less accessible, with less information on it, much different from today where almost everything you want to know is readily available. But the point was, its much easier to get info now a days than it was 10 years ago, there is no way the database was more accurate 10 years ago, just you had less of an opportunity to check what was correct and what had been missed.

I would hope that with you campaigning for a better FM you have taken all the research you have done and spoken to the appropriate researchers about the missing entries? Or at the very least posted the missing entries in the relevant data forums, yes?

I never said it wasnt my problem or anything like that, infact it did effect my team last year when they missed a major transfer we made in january, but it happens, researchers are humans and when it was pointed out the guy said he was sorry.

[Guest]

I don't think this makes sense. Pep Guardiola made the entire Barcelona side respect him within months, and he had little experience at the top level in management.

Personally, I think this is groundbreaking, but why don't we use the motivation and man-management attributes to determine how players react to your team talks? You know, instead of reputation.

A high-profile manager may fail with a lower-league side if he can't motivate his players. A high-profile manager isn't guaranteed to do well with a lower-league side. I'd argue reputation means little in management (except perhaps when finding a new job).

Pep managed the junior sides before taking charge of the senior team which meant a number of those players had worked with him for many years & of course he is a club icon, poor example.

[MeesterCat]

This statement appears a little niaive. Do you really think that in the real world of football transfers that when a transfer occurs it is ALWAYS paid on one big lump?

I think perhaps you need to observe the real world a bit more.

Additionally my experience of FM transfers is that yes, you can spread player purchase payments over a long period but ONLY if you have the full amount of money in your bak account to start with. perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong here

Yes of course I am aware that real life transfers involve transfers paid over a longer term.

What I'm trying to say is that within the FM environment it can allow for a player to frontload transfers in an often unrealistic manner. Now it obviously is not 'against the rules' to do so, but it can distort the game in my opinion as it allows players to boost their team beyond its normal means, and thus in turn making the game appear easier.

To clarify your question I think all that a 48 month transfer requires is that your transfer budget has enough to cover the first months payment.

[Guest]

The solution might be to introduce 3 or 4 year transfer budgets with a sub category of how much actual cash is available in the first year, at the end/beginning of each season the board will adjust the amount available based on your current spending & projected income that the club will receive for the coming year.

This could be used as part of the often talked about 5 year plans that many mid/lower table or division clubs are supposed to have, I'll need to expand my thinking a little but this could certainly be used to ensure that people do not commit £250m in transfer spending during their first season at Wigan with the near guaranteed certainty that when the payments really start to bite they'll be playing in the Champions League.

[MrPompey]

The problem with the OP post is thats its heavy on opinion/views but light on fact, evidence and supporting information and in some cases the statements were rather speculative speculative. Some examples:

OP Claims SI researchers are paid - My understanding is that the majority do it for free

OP claims Player database is not as upto date as 4/5 years ago - My understanding is that there are now more leagues from more nations than ever before. Information is now more freely available via internet than ever before. There was not even a suggestion that there own research and player / staff fact finding was shared with SI data collectors

OP Says, in respect of data updates "Football fans are constantly upset with that and have to do it themselves"...this is very much an exaggerated statement. I suggest the OP does some research to identify those people who are constantly upset and identify a % of the user base

OP says "we just feel playing a game in the kind of hits Call of Duty or Battlefield game where the AI is never tough" A strange statement since these games the OP highlights in the main have a single progression path. FM most obviusly does not and is very much open patch so this is an invalid comparison

The OP may have some good discussion points but they are lost in some of these factless statements. In addition if any progression is to be made then whilst highlighting problems can be helpful, offering suggestions of how to rectify / overcome the issue would perhaps be a better approach if change is to be achieved

The crux it would appear, per the OP's statement is "Our biggest criticism is against the content of the game!" however this point is not in anyway elaborated, explained or exampled

If a true understanding of the issues are to be expected then I think reference to my sentance above should be considered

This is of course just my view...because I'm struggling to really understand the key points here

[MrPompey]

Yes of course I am aware that real life transfers involve transfers paid over a longer term.

What I'm trying to say is that within the FM environment it can allow for a player to frontload transfers in an often unrealistic manner. Now it obviously is not 'against the rules' to do so, but it can distort the game in my opinion as it allows players to boost their team beyond its normal means, and thus in turn making the game appear easier.

To clarify your question I think all that a 48 month transfer requires is that your transfer budget has enough to cover the first months payment.

As I said before please example your last statement with fact as you clearly say "you think". If this was the case I would have thought many FM gamers would have bankrupted many clubs by now

[Oxford_Canary]

A very nice analytical post there MrPompey (#73). If the main complaint is that some areas of the db aren't perfect then I fail to see what SI can do about it given their current resources. If the complaint is the difficulty then this is just one more thread in a debate that has been argued on these boards since FM12 was released (and in previous versions - I'm sure FM06 and 07 in particular had similar debates).

I would also highlight the interesting choice of the Call of Duty and Battlefield franchises as examples. I believe from the OP that this is intended to highlight that FM is - in his view - too much of a 'game' on the grounds that if CoD or Battlefield were a 'simulation' the player would only be able to be shot once in a mission since, even with modern bodyarmour, any soldier being struck by a bullet will almost certainly be withdrawn from the action for medical attention of some kind. Under that logic then the OP might as well ask for FM to run in real time since it isn't a true simulation if you can play an entire season in a week (obviously this is an extreme argument, but I would suggest that most people want a game to be fun even if it is a simulation and that means making it winnable for novices as well as veterans). If, as MrPompey suggests, the OP thinks FM is restricting progression paths I would love to hear why they think it is.

[Geordie111]

This statement appears a little niaive. Do you really think that in the real world of football transfers that when a transfer occurs it is ALWAYS paid on one big lump?I think perhaps you need to observe the real world a bit more.Additionally my experience of FM transfers is that yes, you can spread player purchase payments over a long period but ONLY if you have the full amount of money in your bak account to start with. perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong here

With an 8m transfer budget I can sign someone for 20m with the bulk paid over 48mths. Further to that, I can then make more transfers as it will only take a minimal amount off my budget. I choose not to play the game in this way though. In reality, the board wouldn't allow you to sell the financial viability of the club down the river and commit the club to monstrous monthly payments.

[MrPompey]

With an 8m transfer budget I can sign someone for 20m with the bulk paid over 48mths. Further to that, I can then make more transfers as it will only take a minimal amount off my budget. I choose not to play the game in this way though. In reality, the board wouldn't allow you to sell the financial viability of the club down the river and commit the club to monstrous monthly payments.

Thanks for clarifying that Geordie111and apologies to Meestercat.

I thought this was an exploit that SI had stopped a few releases back?? I wonder what, if any, the game logic is here to prevent an exploit...something for another thread as this may be off topic with the OP

[Shake Appeal]

The game is too easy imo - and the longer you play the easier it gets.

Totally agree. The AI is by far the weakest element in the game as it stands, and the ease with which you can trounce it through basic tactical knowledge, youth development, and principally the transfer market takes some of the joy out of achieving anything anymore. I've been posting about my current Venezia save in Career Updates, and having taken them from newly-promoted to Serie C2 straight up to Serie A in three seasons, I'm now having the most fun I've had yet with the game just because I'm finally struggling to compete at that level. It won't last, of course. I imagine I'll be challenging for the title within a couple of seasons.

That said, the OP and other posts by those involved are downright rude and quite, quite silly in places.

[x42bn6]

Pep managed the junior sides before taking charge of the senior team which meant a number of those players had worked with him for many years & of course he is a club icon, poor example.

As suggested above, Mourinho or Villas-Boas would be better examples.

But even Pep Guardiola shows that reputation is not always the answer. Certainly not THE answer.

[x42bn6]

As I said before please example your last statement with fact as you clearly say "you think". If this was the case I would have thought many FM gamers would have bankrupted many clubs by now

I think the issue is that we tend to see transfer fees in reality as paid (largely) in lump-sums, then FM multiplies that by 4 to give us a 4-year budget. Assuming this is accurate (no board will let you spend 4 years worth of money in one go...*), let us take Manchester United's transfers a few years ago... We managed to get Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves and Tévez for a combined £50m (or thereabouts). It is easy to jump to the conclusion that Manchester United's "FM 4-year budget" pre-Anderson-Nani-Hargreaves-and-Tévez is then £50m x 4 = £200m. Which is of course a pile of nonsense. Even City spend less than £100m per transfer window.

The reason is that the £50m is split over many years (Nani and Anderson were split over many years and clause-laden). Therefore the "FM 1-year budget" is likely closer to £50m / 4 = £12.5m, and the "FM 4-year budget" is likely close to £50m.

It is almost as if you should slash 75% off every club's transfer budget in FM.

* This is wrong because if you get a loan from a bank, you cannot get four times that loan and pay it over four times the duration. Risk does not rise linearly with amount. It should be more expensive to loan four times the amount, even if paid over four times the duration. I'd argue that you should only be able to double your budget over four years, and only if the manager is trusted.

So, for example, if a manager in FM is given £10m to spend, he can either spend £20m over 48 months, or £10m now. A less-trusted manager may only get £15m over 48 months.

[melogroovy]

IMO, SI is in a no win situation in regards to the OP. I remember when FM 11 came out there was a lot of complaining about how difficult it was for the casual gamer. With just about every game I have played, text based sim or not, there exists a tension between the casual and more hard core player. For me, the only way I can hurdle that gap is to play with house rules if I have to. It's good to discuss these things but one has to realize that SI cannot possibly create a game that is all things to all people. I think they've struck a good balance. Sure there are issues that i would like to see addressed that would make the game even better for me but those things could put the game seriously out of balance for others.

[Oxford_Canary]

Good post melogroovy. I completely agree.

[Johnjo]

The casual gamer can always play FMlite or FM handheld.

[Deisler26]

I've found that it's all to do with the club's rep. I took over a Serie C2 side at the beginning on my save, newly promoted to C2 for the first time ever and I started with Sunday League Footballer. It was really hard to try and get players/staff in because my team and personal rep was so low.

Also, I don't want to rain on what you said, but could you try playing more realistically? You say you signed Grenier for Lorient, Orel. So, if you feel that was unrealistic, then why did you make that transfer? I've always held that if you wanted to dominate, you could. If you wanted to play realistically, you could.

[lil ole me]

SI needs to make the game for the typical FM user and not the 'casual' gamer. In the long term there are a hell of a lot more loyal FM`ers than casual gamers.

You risk losing hardcore supporters in favour of a few kiddies who are new to this game and just want to pick a tactic and win straight away.

Don`t get me wrong i still love FM but it does get easier the longer you go into a save.

I am in 2018 and have managed to get Barrow from BSP - EPL year after year and i have won everything except the champions league plus i just scored 120+goals in my last season. It is way to easy to pick up real gems of players aged 16-18 who are rated to become world class etc for a mediocre side.

[lil ole me]

The casual gamer can always play FMlite or FM handheld.

or just p*ss off and play fifa manager

[ringwoodrob]

or just p*ss off and play fifa manager

or vise-versa!

[grade]

You know my opinion resides on, so no point of me stating it again. Good original post, Haribolap.

You have every right to raise your concerns- posters with the opposite views have equally the same right to express theirs

Here's the part I don't like about these threads. When the OP gives proper and constructive criticism (which I think our French colleagues did), here comes the defenders of SI (I'm talking those that defend every version of the game regardless of issues that the version has), bashing and destroying what could be a proper discussion and these defenders causes irritations to those that gave proper discussions. Of course these people are human and end up loosing their temper and come of as rant and the threads decreases to slandering matches and nothing is done about it and ends up being closed. So I pretty much shut up about it and pretty much ignore skip the opinions of some defenders because they sound like freaking broken record and if the thread goes down hill end up ignoring the thread, Because the thing is I view those defenders most of the time they are simply bullying others just because they don't share their view.

[flauta kicma]

To address your first point, to an extent there is a 'difficulty' setting in the game now - ask many users, if you start a game with little or not experience (say 'Sunday League Footballer') and take over a big club it will be far harder to get reactions from your players from team talks and other such things - this will make it more difficult for you to succeed until your earn the players respect.

With all due respect, you really think this is the right way to make things harder, more challenging and interesting?

Yeah, maybe because of that I didnt play my game since December 28, and in the last 10 years there were not more then 2 days without this game.

This game, FM/CM series, always had life on its own, some special inside world, and you didnt even know that this is game. Like some beautiful movie or rock album where everything inside had its own place. It is hard to explain it because english is my third language, but I hope you will get the point.

You cant be serious thinking that this morale thing, reputation thing is solution?

You can make things harder by tweaking every aspect of the game, by boosting the AI transfer policy and so on, you can not just mess the morale system and say that this is the right way? It cant be the right way, it makes things unreal and unplayable in my case.

It is just my opinion, constructive critic, hope you will get it right.

I refresh this forum million times a day beacuse FM is part of my life and I'm hoping if there will be new patch without this moral issue. But now I'm afraid because of your words, it seems like that this is future path for this game.

But real future, IMO, should be smooth gameplay, everything in its own boundaries and not just raising one option (in this case - morale) and thinking that reputation thing will fix the issue.

Policy like this never was policy of my beloved game.

[Guest]

The morale system on 12.0 had to be fixed because it was leading to the game being far too easy & without any challenge the game is utterly pointless.

There are certainly many areas that need addressing but when something as blatant as morale boosting comes along it has to be nerfed, now that it's more or less balanced SI can get back on with the task of improving the overall mechanics of the match engine & long term planning by the AI managers.

[Orel]

You know my opinion resides on, so no point of me stating it again. Good original post, Haribolap.

Here's the part I don't like about these threads. When the OP gives proper and constructive criticism (which I think our French colleagues did), here comes the defenders of SI (I'm talking those that defend every version of the game regardless of issues that the version has), bashing and destroying what could be a proper discussion and these defenders causes irritations to those that gave proper discussions. Of course these people are human and end up loosing their temper and come of as rant and the threads decreases to slandering matches and nothing is done about it and ends up being closed. So I pretty much shut up about it and pretty much ignore skip the opinions of some defenders because they sound like freaking broken record and if the thread goes down hill end up ignoring the thread, Because the thing is I view those defenders most of the time they are simply bullying others just because they don't share their view.

I totally agree with you. We wanted to know the position of SI about the game and the evolution for the next opus or patch. But we were confronted to SI defenders and our OP was finally never read by Miles Jacobson or a real person in FM hierarchy.

We tweeted Miles several times to ask him to read our OP and give a real answer but he totally ignored our OP. So we conclude that SI and FM hierarchy don't care about the hard-gamer and fan opinion. To have a real discussion with SI or FM hierarchy about the game, this forum is a fake one because all the defenders are here and gave their opinions ... It's a real joke! The only thing that SI want do with her game is to make more money every day and more and more for each opus. That's why the game is so easy. They want all the casual gamers who want to win at the first season and dreaming with their teams.

The only one thing that we want, it's a real answer from the FM hierarchy. Not a big joke like Neil Brock gave us with his answer about the difficulty when we can choose our reputation!

I hope that this message be heard and read by someone who can give us an answer.

[Nico]

I recall playing one of the old Champ Manager games with a few friends (I forget which exactly, I was about 12 at the time so a good 16 years ago!). Myself and fellow 12 year old chums discussed that once you had cracked the forumula for winnning you could apply it to almost every new game you started.

We understood, even at a young age, that coding has a limitation. It's not a self learning machine, just code that can be manipulated in-game once your familiar enough with how it works.

This runs true in almost every game made, once you figure out the mechanics of the game you can apply them and win everytime.

[GIMN]

Of course SI want to make more money, that is entirely pivotal to their existence. But they will know as well as any other business that customer retention is just as important as attracting new custom. To balance the needs of the casual gamer and the hardcore gamer is a very difficult practice, which pretty much every game fails to do, because unfortunately expectations vary so wildly.

[MrPompey]

You know my opinion resides on, so no point of me stating it again. Good original post, Haribolap.

Here's the part I don't like about these threads. When the OP gives proper and constructive criticism (which I think our French colleagues did), here comes the defenders of SI (I'm talking those that defend every version of the game regardless of issues that the version has), bashing and destroying what could be a proper discussion and these defenders causes irritations to those that gave proper discussions. Of course these people are human and end up loosing their temper and come of as rant and the threads decreases to slandering matches and nothing is done about it and ends up being closed. So I pretty much shut up about it and pretty much ignore skip the opinions of some defenders because they sound like freaking broken record and if the thread goes down hill end up ignoring the thread, Because the thing is I view those defenders most of the time they are simply bullying others just because they don't share their view.

The problem is that its not "proper criticism" as such. I think for a post like this its needs to be confirmed with a clear statement of what the problem is and supported if possible with fact. I'm really struggling to get the point of the problem

[MrPompey]

I totally agree with you. We wanted to know the position of SI about the game and the evolution for the next opus or patch. But we were confronted to SI defenders and our OP was finally never read by Miles Jacobson or a real person in FM hierarchy.

We tweeted Miles several times to ask him to read our OP and give a real answer but he totally ignored our OP. So we conclude that SI and FM hierarchy don't care about the hard-gamer and fan opinion. To have a real discussion with SI or FM hierarchy about the game, this forum is a fake one because all the defenders are here and gave their opinions ... It's a real joke! The only thing that SI want do with her game is to make more money every day and more and more for each opus. That's why the game is so easy. They want all the casual gamers who want to win at the first season and dreaming with their teams.

The only one thing that we want, it's a real answer from the FM hierarchy. Not a big joke like Neil Brock gave us with his answer about the difficulty when we can choose our reputation!

I hope that this message be heard and read by someone who can give us an answer.

This statement says a lot about you. How do you know that Miles hasn't read it nor anyone else in the FM heirarchy? You need to understand how you appear to readers of this thread when you make big statements of such a speculative nature

This sums up the problem of the post......

[themadsheep2001]

This statement says a lot about you. How do you know that Miles hasn't read it nor anyone else in the FM heirarchy? You need to understand how you appear to readers of this thread when you make big statements of such a speculative nature

This sums up the problem of the post......

+1 I read the opening post because I was expecting some good constructive criticism, but with all due respect to the OP, it's heavy on speculation and light on substance, particularly on the role of researchers.

I asked before but the OP did not answer so I will ask again, have you thought about becoming a researcher or passing on all the correction you say you've made, to SI? Then the game could benefit from it

[grade]

I totally agree with you. We wanted to know the position of SI about the game and the evolution for the next opus or patch. But we were confronted to SI defenders and our OP was finally never read by Miles Jacobson or a real person in FM hierarchy.

We tweeted Miles several times to ask him to read our OP and give a real answer but he totally ignored our OP. So we conclude that SI and FM hierarchy don't care about the hard-gamer and fan opinion. To have a real discussion with SI or FM hierarchy about the game, this forum is a fake one because all the defenders are here and gave their opinions ... It's a real joke! The only thing that SI want do with her game is to make more money every day and more and more for each opus. That's why the game is so easy. They want all the casual gamers who want to win at the first season and dreaming with their teams.

The only one thing that we want, it's a real answer from the FM hierarchy. Not a big joke like Neil Brock gave us with his answer about the difficulty when we can choose our reputation!

I hope that this message be heard and read by someone who can give us an answer.

I believe that Miles has read your thread, the lack of response from his part doesn't mean he hasn't read it. Since I can't be sure what he does or does not do (this goes for the people at SI), the only thing I have is belief.

[Smurf]

I started a game with Santo Andre FC in Brazil division 3.

Back to back promotions. In 2014 and 2015 won the Copa Sudamericana, and 2015 I won the Copa Libertadores and the First Division.

I was appointed Chile manager and stayed there until 2018.

I could not for the life of me find a club to take me out of South America. That part was difficult. With very small clubs to large clubs "Laughing at me", despite being Chile manager, and being the manager of a very successful Brazil team, who got promoted from 3rd Division to State and League Champions.

Eventually the Sunderland job came up. And I've been there since 2016.

2016 - FA CUP winners

2018 and 2020 - Champions League Winners

2018 - Super Cup

2019 and 2020 - League Cup Winners

2019 - Premier League Champions

2019 - Community Shield Champions

In all years at the club I have not failed to qualify for the Champions League (that's top 4 finish all seasons).

Jack Wilshere was offered to me from Arsenal - €23m

Mesut Ozil was offered to me from Real Madrid - €28m

Both Signed - 160k - 180k in wages for them. No bother to Sunderland.

This is what I do:

Hire all good coaches (I know the stats required for each training)

Hire all good scouts

Hire a really good assistant

Sort All players by Coach Rating - Potential

Sell all players below 3 stars.

Buy all players Potential 4 star and above.

Rinse and repeat every transfer window where possible.

Buy up youth. Scouts good at judging player potential - they are sent scouting the U21, U19, U18 leagues and comps the Reserves all over the world, wherever they are knowledgeable.

I have 16 scouts - My Scouting Knowledge is 53%... how? I don't care, I sign all the best players in the world - where I need to strengthen the team.

In 4 seasons I have taken Sunderland from bottom feeders to World Champions! I have a good portion of the best players in the game in my squad.

I know this because Mesut Ozil is one of the best players in the game, and Wilshere is pretty decent. How do I judge my players abilities and potential, I use my Coach Ratings for Potential and Ability. And when a player has potential of 4.5 Stars and Ozil doesn't - then I know I have a winner.

Know I have a benchmark for my players potential. I can instantly be a success.

I started out as an unknown manager. Started unemployed. Took the first job that came up.

In 8 seasons - I am one of the best managers in the World.

That's why the game is too easy.

[shirajzl]

Eugene, do you look at specific attributes in players you plan to buy? I mean important stuff like determination, decisions, anticipation...With your technique many good players can go under your radar because their CA/PA may not be that high, but they have the right attributes in the right places.

[Smurf]

Team Work and Work Rate - that's all I care about.

As long as the scout has it at 4 stars or more - then I scout them for 3 games, and see if they still have that rating.

Then I sign them.