Stop milking the FM-franchise with new versions every year!!

[Krald]

Like said, their business model is based around yearly releases. If it was based around a release every two years, due to lower income it'd be likely they might have to cut some staff so that the profit margins are still there, and they can appease shareholders.

This would result likely in more bugs going un-noticed due to fewer professional testers, and slower development in general. Sure there might be some advantages, but them sticking to yearly releases, and you buying once every two years if you believe it's too much to buy every year is likely to have better, or at least equal results to them doing the two-year development cycle. Plus really, they're a business, they are here to make money.

[Wiitastic]

to be honest if you cant afford up to 40 pounds every 12 months for a computer game then you are inm the wrong business. Even if you have to get it for your birthday.

[FrazT]

We have not had one of these threads for a while, have we?

This is brought up regularly and it has been often said that it would make absolutely no commercial sense to not release the game every year, Until sales numbers drop, indicating consumer unhappiness with the current situation ( and that hasnt happened yet ), there is no chance of changing release strategy

[Danielos]

Or sooner or later SI might having trouble coming up with new ideas to improve the game every year.

[BiggusD]

What the OP is proposing is really what SI and SEGA is doing right now, they just mask it to look like they aren't.

[Ter]

Or sooner or later SI might having trouble coming up with new ideas to improve the game every year.

Not much chance of that...

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Any company that insists on strict release dates for new products, regardless of how fit and ready that product is at the time of said release, will eventually run into difficulties.

As far as I am concerned there is absolutely no excuse for releasing a sub standard product. The only reason SI/SEGA get away with doing this is because it is a computer based product that can have repairs made after it has been released and whether through laziness or greed, they are exploiting this.

[Cougar2010]

Any company that insists on strict release dates for new products, regardless of how fit and ready that product is at the time of said release, will eventually run into difficulties.

As far as I am concerned there is absolutely no excuse for releasing a sub standard product. The only reason SI/SEGA get away with doing this is because it is a computer based product that can have repairs made after it has been released and whether through laziness or greed, they are exploiting this.

If you waited for a piece of software to be "fit and ready" nothing would ever be released!

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Not much chance of that...

What, New ideas? or Ideas that improve the game?

[Scab]

Any company that insists on strict release dates for new products, regardless of how fit and ready that product is at the time of said release, will eventually run into difficulties.

As far as I am concerned there is absolutely no excuse for releasing a sub standard product. The only reason SI/SEGA get away with doing this is because it is a computer based product that can have repairs made after it has been released and whether through laziness or greed, they are exploiting this.

Or it is, you know, not sub standard.

[Stampler]

stop trolling please

[pigfacemonkeyman]

If you waited for a piece of software to be "fit and ready" nothing would ever be released!

And yet FM 'appears' to be fit and ready each year by Patch .3

[themadsheep2001]

And yet FM 'appears' to be fit and ready each year by Patch .3

I'd expect any game to be better with the 3rd patch than release. if they were to release 4th patch it'd be better than the 3rd. Really dont get what your point is

[Sunbao]

Not much chance of that...

Nah the scotsman is sitting tight on the box with new ideas only giving a few away every year

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I'd expect any game to be better with the 3rd patch than release. if they were to release 4th patch it'd be better than the 3rd. Really dont get what your point is

It is an incomplete product on it's release.

[themadsheep2001]

It is an incomplete product on it's release.

its still incomplete now, they could probably do another 3 patches and its probably still be incomplete

[pigfacemonkeyman]

its still incomplete now, they could probably do another 3 patches and its probably still be incomplete

Which goes to show that the OP may have a point!

[x42bn6]

its still incomplete now, they could probably do another 3 patches and its probably still be incomplete

But the game is only "stable" by the third patch. Even "gold" versions of software have bugs, but is widely accepted to be near-fully functional for the majority of users, with major bugs very rare.

Release versions of Football Manager nowadays almost always need a release patch.

.3 versions appear to be "gold" (it's not really, in FM11's case, thanks to the international withdrawals and vanishing statistics).

No software is perfect, but some software is "good enough". I don't think 11.3 is "good enough" given the fairly glaring bugs we see.

[doubledutch]

I really want a new version this year; absolutely loathed FM11 as soon as i played the demo- but being an optimist I have big hopes for FM12!

[Anti Spiral]

If they don't bring it out every year they'll potentially lose the market. Another football management game which comes out yearly may steal the market and thus SEGA and SI could risk major financial losses.

[Dr. Pepper]

I have never felt that SI are milking us, I love how they keep improving the game every year. I can say somet years they are better than others, but overall it's good. I have played FM2011 more than I did with FM2010, that Steam counter is quite scary

[thegreb1]

I wouldn't like them to release FM every few years, and it wouldn't work for the business like others have said. Also, to say that they're ripping off their customers (I know you didn't use those exact words, but that's what you're implying) is ridiculous. On it's release day, I paid £29.99 for FM11. I've played it practically every day sinse I got it. If you work out how much FM11 cost me on a day to day basis, it'd be less than 10p a day. I call that great value for money!

SI and Sega, don't listen to the minority who are obviously not hardcore FM players. The majority of FM players will agree with me that a yearly release of a new FM is a great thing. I for one love loading up my newest copy of FM and getting stuck into any new features that have been added or updated.

Edit: Just wanted to go back to your comment about CM being released every few years... Look where that's got them. The game is done. Their fanbase is non-existant because their latest release (which came out a few years after the one before) didn't cut the mustard. Do you want FM to end up the same way? I sure don't!

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I wouldn't like them to release FM every few years, and it wouldn't work for the business like others have said. Also, to say that they're ripping off their customers (I know you didn't use those exact words, but that's what you're implying) is ridiculous. On it's release day, I paid £29.99 for FM11. I've played it practically every day sinse I got it. If you work out how much FM11 cost me on a day to day basis, it'd be less than 10p a day. I call that great value for money!

SI and Sega, don't listen to the minority who are obviously not hardcore FM players. The majority of FM players will agree with me that a yearly release of a new FM is a great thing. I for one love loading up my newest copy of FM and getting stuck into any new features that have been added or updated.

Edit: Just wanted to go back to your comment about CM being released every few years... Look where that's got them. The game is done. Their fanbase is non-existant because their latest release (which came out a few years after the one before) didn't cut the mustard. Do you want FM to end up the same way? I sure don't!

And you know this how?

[Ginola*]

A new version once a year is fine by me. You have twelve months to save up for it!!!

[heathxxx]

I think SI should get back to releasing Football Manager with the sequels a few years aparts and with yearly season-packs between them. For example, say Football Manager 2009 was a full game (since it had the new engine) with full price. Then we could have two season-packs FM 09/10, FM 10/11 between with just minor fixes and updated squads. They would cost as expansion packs. Then this year we could have Football Manager 2012 as the full sequel with major changes and new features.

I don´t think it is justified having a full-price new version of the game every year. If Football Manager 2012 included all the changes from FM10, FM11 and this years FM12 it would be a major update, worthy of a sequel and the full price. Also, it would mean less significant more time for SI to come up with changes instead of having to rush out a new version every year!

Just because a new version of the game is released every year, doesn't necessarily mean you have to buy it, if you don't want to. Your consumer choice and nobody is forcing you to buy each release.

Plenty of people I know on these forums either buy the game religiously each year, or they skip a version or two. For example, there are a couple of people who post regularly in Tactics & Training, who have stayed with FM10 and will wait for FM12 to be their next purchase.

It's up to SI Games & SEGA as to what they think is the commercially best option when it comes to releasing games. If it's profitable to do so each year, then of course they will continue annual releases.

Personally, I find there are enough improvements and updates each year to make it a worthwhile purchase each year. I've managed to get the game for less than €25 here in Spain each year, sometimes less than €20. Compared to some of the many other games I purchase each year, it offers much more value for money. For example, Dragon Age II cost me over €35, I played it once... was thoroughly disgruntled and it's never been played again. FM11 on the other hand, I don't think the disk has been back in the box since November, but that could also be because my PC desk is often untidy!

[IMT]

Go back????? And even if you are banging on about how it used to be CM3 then 02/03, 03/04 before going to CM4, it was still yearly releases, just differently named to now.

I'll stick my plus 1 in saying I completely disagree and want a yearly release, if that's all the same to you?

[IMT]

You´re missing out on so many other great games if you only play FM that much...

Again disagree, I basically only play FM, I have an Xbox, which is basically just used as a DVD player, I just can't get into games like COD, Fifa etc

[IMT]

Which goes to show that the OP may have a point!

No it doesn't, all games are released with bugs, not many release 3 seperate patches to not just fix, but update your game.

[LC- Foxes]

si seem to want to attract new players and will change things that the long term players are used to.

Wont be long before the traditional overview screens are gone and we'll just have the match on 1 big screen with widgets, also wont be long before they stop including the 2d pitch imo. i know they have kept the commentary only in, but thats easy to leave in i think its more hard work to include the 2d pitch so i think it will be gone.

you can understand si want to stay with the modern games try and attract the new generations, like i notice the fm match preview layout is similar to the fifa manager layout, i know fifa did it first. but thats a good thing, the old fm match day layouts were boring and plain, least now you have bubbles around with stats/ logos/ league table etc.

I just hope si dont remove the things that make it a great management sim.

[sando123]

all games have bugs, fifa had giant bugs this year but people still get excited for the yearly fifa, same as cod that has bugs but people still love that, i dont see any problem with this game i know people have said to me they cant score or the match engine is poor but really they just cant make a tatic to win so they put it down as rubbish

[Crispypaul]

FM costs me a maximum of £25 pounds a year for hundreds of hours of entertainment, compared to £25 on friday night drinks which is a couple of hours entertainment and a hangover. FM wins.

[milnerpoint]

But the game is only "stable" by the third patch. Even "gold" versions of software have bugs, but is widely accepted to be near-fully functional for the majority of users, with major bugs very rare.

Release versions of Football Manager nowadays almost always need a release patch.

.3 versions appear to be "gold" (it's not really, in FM11's case, thanks to the international withdrawals and vanishing statistics).

No software is perfect, but some software is "good enough". I don't think 11.3 is "good enough" given the fairly glaring bugs we see.

I played the last 2 versions of this game without coming onto the forums, i couldnt tell you one single bug from either game, whereas with FM11 i have been on the forums since release and i am aware of heaps of bugs, what does that tell you?

This is also the first version to have a release day patch.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I didn't buy FM11, and will consider buying FM12 based mostly on what I read on here, but not until after the the final update.

I would buy the game every year if it had been tested properly, but it so obviously isn't and it can be said that SI are taking the ...., using paying customers to bring a product up to the standard that it should have been on it's release, instead of paid employees.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

No it doesn't, all games are released with bugs, not many release 3 seperate patches to not just fix, but update your game.

So that makes it OK?

[milnerpoint]

so i guess you will take a stance and not buy ANY games from now on until you have read the makers have fixed all bugs, correct?

[deltablue]

Football related (and sports games in general) often operate on a yearly basis, so FM is no different. If you feel that it's only a proper update every couple of years you're welcome to simply buy it that often, and there are plenty who are satisfied with it yearly. In actual fact FM games are often better being a polished and more refined version of it's predecessor (well, FM 10 anyway, though we'll all have our own opinion on that). Certainly given I'm one of those who plays for at least a few hours a majority of days a year, and the fact that a save can be endless with so many club/league possibilties, even every year it can provide good value.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I played the last 2 versions of this game without coming onto the forums, i couldnt tell you one single bug from either game, whereas with FM11 i have been on the forums since release and i am aware of heaps of bugs, what does that tell you?

This is also the first version to have a release day patch.

???And this is a good thing???

[themadsheep2001]

I didn't buy FM11, and will consider buying FM12 based mostly on what I read on here, but not until after the the final update.

I would buy the game every year if it had been tested properly, but it so obviously isn't and it can be said that SI are taking the ...., using paying customers to bring a product up to the standard that it should have been on it's release, instead of paid employees.

Except its been noted the testers find more bugs than the paying public. finding them and fixing them all in time are two different things

There can always be improvements, but i dont feel they are milking it at all. I certainly get value for my money

[LC- Foxes]

alot of bugs they do know about but dont know how to fix, like the famous extra time strange result changer.

ive lost on penalties then clicked continue and it said i won 2-1 after extra time even though the game finished 1-1 and i lost on penalties, i also had one on fm09 or fm10 cant remember exactly where i won on penalties 3-1 i clicked continue and it said i lost on penalties 3-2.

The guy who missed for the AI 'apparently' scored and then my 2 players who scored apparently missed.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Except its been noted the testers find more bugs than the paying public. finding them and fixing them all in time are two different things

There can always be improvements, but i dont feel they are milking it at all. I certainly get value for my money

Yes, that's my point.

[Alan A Wadge]

SI would never find it difficult for new features. All they have to do is ask the forums what do you want in the new fm? And within 10 minutes they have a list of 100 things!

[Alan A Wadge]

+ to be honest I don't mind paying 30euros a year for a game which I almost play everyday, we are saying 8 cents a day! I am more then happy to pay that for the survival of this company!

[Lem]

Well I stopped buying it when the price went up and it wasn't being fixed or released in a reasonable state.

I think they'd do better with season updates at half game cost(as these are essentially just transfer updates and take a lot less work but could be equally profitable) and waiting longer to release a better game rather than rushing to complete something they don't have the time to do. This way the better game would attract a larger market, and cheap season updates would be snapped up as they don't cost so much.

But I can't see it happening.

[Alan A Wadge]

Lem, that's poor marketing mate, the company won't survive the hit of half the income for a whole year

[SWaRFeGa]

I think they'd do better with season updates at half game cost(as these are essentially just transfer updates and take a lot less work but could be equally profitable).

Nobody in their right mind would buy those - as they are currently free for all on the interweb.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Nobody in their right mind would buy those - as they are currently free for all on the interweb.

I'd buy them if they included improvements and fixes to already existing features.

What would be your stance be as to whether someone was 'cheating' by using an edited database?

[SWaRFeGa]

I'd buy them if they included improvements and fixes to already existing features.

Again, patches do this - which are also currently free.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Again, patches do this - which are also currently free.

Right, now combine the two and look forward in time to beyond patch .3

[Danielos]

What makes you think SI will go bancrupt if they release versions say every two years with season packs in between? First, I suppose the sequels will sell better than they do now since they are bigger, better and properly tested. Second, many will buy the seasonal updates.

Also, many other companies don´t release new games every year and manage to survive. Would you expect Creative Assembly to release a new Total War game every year? We expect sequels to be a few years apart to take full advantage of proper development time, testing and better technology. Why should football management simulations be any exception?

[LC- Foxes]

they wont go bankrupt, they just wont get the profit they get every year.

i dont think Miles would go without hes extra cash, they could survive by making one game every couple of years just the greedy sods wont have as much money for their Xmas holiday.