Liverpool Thread 2011/12

[Razzler]

How did Gerrard play yesterday?

[dking]

He didn't play

[Razzler]

Injured or form?

[SRL88]

It's*

Picky sod.

[dking]

Just watched MOTD. Let's keep Doni and play him as first choice next season, or at least give him a chance to prove himself. Pepe just hasn't been very good for a couple of seasons now and I think Doni has done extremely well when he's actually played.

[LRJ]

If I had the effort I'd go back and find my post saying Doni > Reina.

Don't understand what's happened to him this season (and last really), seems to have lost his ability to make those reflex saves that made him so awesome.

[niggle]

Injured or form?

injured - back injury, nothing major guess it's a precaution for the Euro's.

although his form has not been great either.

[foofighter23]

potential realistic targets this summer, dembele, very good technique and is always intelligent on the ball, would go straight into the team with lucas. dempsey, will add much needed squad strength in whats hopefully gonna be a longer season with europe in mind. hoilett, available for a compensation fee, again could go straight into the starting 11 on the right wing and will automatically be our best option there. not convinced we're interested tho tbh, for all the talk, theres not been any major hint he's likely to come.

the strikers the hardest one to come by, we've always had top class strikers over the years that have helped us finish in the top 4 more often than not and if we dont find another one, its always gonna be a struggle to get there. most important position on the pitch and we have to get that next signing right to have any real chance of progression.

i'll be honest, i'd rather kenny steps down but if he does end up staying i'll have to back him and hope we get all the luck that deserted us this season and pray our european campaign goes better than his last attempt. getting rid of kenny poses a problem for the owners though as any new manager that came in would surely demand a transfer kitty and at a club like liverpool he should get one. what happens with kenny this summer will tell us a lot about fsg plans. whoever the manager is, he should be backed with money, if theyve got no faith in kenny to spend well then they need to replace him. the worst thing that could happen this summer is for kenny to stay and only get a pittance of a transfer kitty forcing us to keep hold of some of the players that werent good enough this season.

still, im secretly hopeful fsg fool everyone and slap a £40m bid in for a cavani/hazard type player and get them, though we all know thats not likely, this squad need some big improvements and to get that we need to spend.

[martplfc1]

Just watched MOTD. Let's keep Doni and play him as first choice next season, or at least give him a chance to prove himself. Pepe just hasn't been very good for a couple of seasons now and I think Doni has done extremely well when he's actually played.

Unfortunately never going to happen whilst Kenny/99% of other managers are in charge. He has too strong a reputation to drop, much like Gerrard.

[LRJ]

Skrtel has won POTY fwiw, was nailed on anyways but it's now official. Kelly currently winning YPOTY with 30% of the votes.

[DeafParrot]

Liverpool won only 2 of the 12 premier league games Steven Gerrard started this season. We won 12 of the other 26. hmmm.

[LRJ]

Also Kenny Dalglish and Steve Clarke are currently flying to Boston to meet John Henry & Tom Werner.

[Kenco]

Skrtel has won POTY fwiw, was nailed on anyways but it's now official. Kelly currently winning YPOTY with 30% of the votes.

Sadly not a lot of competition for either to be fair.

[Select_screen_name:]

Also Kenny Dalglish and Steve Clarke are currently flying to Boston to meet John Henry & Tom Werner.

Long flight home if you're getting binned. I don't think they are if they are going to USA. Unless the Red Sox are still playing Rounders.

[Kopite]

Liverpool won only 2 of the 12 premier league games Steven Gerrard started this season. We won 12 of the other 26. hmmm.

Been saying it for ages. Balance of the side doesn't seem right with him in it for me.

[foofighter23]

Also Kenny Dalglish and Steve Clarke are currently flying to Boston to meet John Henry & Tom Werner.

source?

would be kind of harsh to sack em this far from home, not convinced they are going anywhere yet.

[Insipidus]

potential realistic targets this summer, dembele, very good technique and is always intelligent on the ball, would go straight into the team with lucas. dempsey, will add much needed squad strength in whats hopefully gonna be a longer season with europe in mind. hoilett, available for a compensation fee, again could go straight into the starting 11 on the right wing and will automatically be our best option there. not convinced we're interested tho tbh, for all the talk, theres not been any major hint he's likely to come.

ve

this is really the level of player we need to look at to get a nice squad for next season. the disappointing thing is that i feel we'll take no interest in any of the above despite them all offering a lot, particularly Dembele. Its the same feeling I got in january when Newcastle picked up Cisse for less than £10M. Our transfers leave a lot to be desired.

[bell]

I've been quite impressed with Dembele, athletic, mobile, cracking shot. Really good player actually and would surely cost no more han £10m. Should be targeting players like him without doubt.

I think a good price option up front would be Defoe. Wants to leave Spurs, so should be available a decent price. Has goals in him and is vey mobile and very direct, certainly a different option to the strikers we have. Yes, he is no Falcao or Cavani, but it's certainly an upgrade to our squad.

Jarvis might be worth looking at again from Wolves to add depth to the squad on the wings and competition for Downing. I'm not totally sold on him though.

Then blow the rest on Muniain

It's likely we are going to retain almost everyone in the squad as it is and I think these would strengthen us and provide competition for places.

We could also do with finding some decent cover for Lucas, possibly on loan.

[LRJ]

source?

would be kind of harsh to sack em this far from home, not convinced they are going anywhere yet.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2012/05/dalglish-flies-to-boston-to-discuss-lfc-future/

[Mulliner]

ve

this is really the level of player we need to look at to get a nice squad for next season. the disappointing thing is that i feel we'll take no interest in any of the above despite them all offering a lot, particularly Dembele. Its the same feeling I got in january when Newcastle picked up Cisse for less than £10M. Our transfers leave a lot to be desired.

Newcastle have done absolute wonders looking at the Dutch, Italian, German and particularly French leagues - our insistence on rarely looking at the main central European leagues just beggars belief. When you buy from other Premier League teams it just seems to triple the price of people, and hasn't in any way guaranteed the success of the people we've brought in. I mean, Cabaye or Henderson anyone?

The Cisse signing was particularly galling, 13 goals in 14 games he's ended up with, and I remember in January everyone knew he was the striker to get in, and for £10m it was just such an easy decision for us to go for him, but we do nothing. Ditto the Lucas replacement that was needed in January, what the hell was the all about? Our transfer policy has been shown to be flawed and youjust get that sense of us not really having a strategy, or knowing what we're tring to do or what kind of squad we need to build. If we start next season with a new first 11 striker and right sided midfielder I'll be as pleased as anyone, but you just know we won't address the right areas, and when we try to do that we'll just end up picking the wrong option. Grrr. Not happy.

[bell]

TBF Johan Cabaye is 26 and probably reaching his peak, whereas Henderson is still a young lad learning his trade. It's unfair to compare them.

Also, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. Were any of us in here saying we should buy Cabaye last summer. Doubt it, as only a handful of us probably even knew who he was.

[Insipidus]

Youre right about Cabaye but I was screaming (metaphorically) for us to sign Cisse.

[Kopite]

I wouldn't mind Fletcher from Wolves personally. Seems to know where the net is and have good movement in the box. Should get him cheap with them being relegated and could be a handy squad player.

[foofighter23]

ve

this is really the level of player we need to look at to get a nice squad for next season. the disappointing thing is that i feel we'll take no interest in any of the above despite them all offering a lot, particularly Dembele. Its the same feeling I got in january when Newcastle picked up Cisse for less than £10M. Our transfers leave a lot to be desired.

everyone whos watched dembele can see he's a quality player and ive no doubt he'll go to a better team than fulham at some point, but i agree with you, we probably wont go for him in spite of him being better than most of our current midfield. our transfer dealings this last year have been pretty bad. all them players bought and at the end of it a 19yr old that rafa bought for less than £2m outshone them all with just his arrogance and fight alone.

[benjaminpeter]

Newcastle have done absolute wonders looking at the Dutch, Italian, German and particularly French leagues - our insistence on rarely looking at the main central European leagues just beggars belief. When you buy from other Premier League teams it just seems to triple the price of people, and hasn't in any way guaranteed the success of the people we've brought in. I mean, Cabaye or Henderson anyone?

The Cisse signing was particularly galling, 13 goals in 14 games he's ended up with, and I remember in January everyone knew he was the striker to get in, and for £10m it was just such an easy decision for us to go for him, but we do nothing. Ditto the Lucas replacement that was needed in January, what the hell was the all about? Our transfer policy has been shown to be flawed and youjust get that sense of us not really having a strategy, or knowing what we're tring to do or what kind of squad we need to build. If we start next season with a new first 11 striker and right sided midfielder I'll be as pleased as anyone, but you just know we won't address the right areas, and when we try to do that we'll just end up picking the wrong option. Grrr. Not happy.

This is exactly why Comolli got the boot tbh. Owners/Executives looked at what Newcastle have done and gone "wtf were we in all this??". We need someone with knowledge of central/southern european leagues and their players, but who also knows what it takes to be a success in the Prem. Benitez as director of football anyone?!

[dustygator]

TBF Johan Cabaye is 26 and probably reaching his peak, whereas Henderson is still a young lad learning his trade. It's unfair to compare them.

Also, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. Were any of us in here saying we should buy Cabaye last summer. Doubt it, as only a handful of us probably even knew who he was.

Charlie Adam vs Cabaye is a better comparison. Both 26 now, both deep lying playmakers. One was a key player for a team that got relegated. The other was a key player for a team that won the league.

Players like Cabaye are exactly who we should go for. They should play for smaller teams in stature but not in performance. This means we won't have to pay over the top to pry them away (think about how Porto always get fair value when they sell players). Players would want to move to a bigger league as a challenge and won't carry a huge wage bill. They should be young enough that their best years are in front of them but so young as to need years of development to get into the first team (~age 23-25). And they should have good intangibles/character. Given two similar players, one with the personality/attitude of Lucas and one like Carroll, you are willing to pay a little bit for the mentally stronger player.

Also some broad overarching stereotypes that can be exploited.

Post-hype sleeper- Someone who was highly hyped a season or two ago but maybe a move never materialized or got pushed down the pecking order a bit. But they still had a quietly good season or have the talent. ex Thomas Müller (probably untouchable after WC2010, has been pushed out somewhat by Kroos, 7 goal/8 assists this season compared to 12/11 last season), or someone like Vela (12 goals, 7 assists both club leading for pretty good Sociedad side)

Leftovers at a big spending club- Whenever teams spend as much as City or Real Madrid, there are going to be players that never settled and quickly got replaced by another big money signing. ex Adebayor this season for Spurs, Dzeko could be in a similar situation next season. Or the many teams that have taken advantage of Real Madrid castoffs (Sneijder, Robben, Soldado, Mata, Javi Garcia, Negredo, VDV, etc, etc)

[Tullem]

Skrtel has won POTY fwiw, was nailed on anyways but it's now official. Kelly currently winning YPOTY with 30% of the votes.

I voted for Shelvey, although Kelly has been good too. No stand-out performers really, I just love Shelvey.

[Insipidus]

The above post is a good summary of what our transfers should look like. Its shameful that the reality is buying up overpriced british products.

[bell]

Charlie Adam vs Cabaye is a better comparison. Both 26 now, both deep lying playmakers. One was a key player for a team that got relegated. The other was a key player for a team that won the league.

Players like Cabaye are exactly who we should go for. They should play for smaller teams in stature but not in performance. This means we won't have to pay over the top to pry them away (think about how Porto always get fair value when they sell players). Players would want to move to a bigger league as a challenge and won't carry a huge wage bill. They should be young enough that their best years are in front of them but so young as to need years of development to get into the first team (~age 23-25). And they should have good intangibles/character. Given two similar players, one with the personality/attitude of Lucas and one like Carroll, you are willing to pay a little bit for the mentally stronger player.

Also some broad overarching stereotypes that can be exploited.

Post-hype sleeper- Someone who was highly hyped a season or two ago but maybe a move never materialized or got pushed down the pecking order a bit. But they still had a quietly good season or have the talent. ex Thomas Müller (probably untouchable after WC2010, has been pushed out somewhat by Kroos, 7 goal/8 assists this season compared to 12/11 last season), or someone like Vela (12 goals, 7 assists both club leading for pretty good Sociedad side)

Leftovers at a big spending club- Whenever teams spend as much as City or Real Madrid, there are going to be players that never settled and quickly got replaced by another big money signing. ex Adebayor this season for Spurs, Dzeko could be in a similar situation next season. Or the many teams that have taken advantage of Real Madrid castoffs (Sneijder, Robben, Soldado, Mata, Javi Garcia, Negredo, VDV, etc, etc)

Now this is a much better example and I agree with everything there tbh. I guess what we did last summer, particularly with Henderson and Carroll was spend big for players that could spend their whole career here. We overpaid, but we were always going to once people knew we had £50m burning a hole in our pockets.

This summer really have to find some players in places you highlight. Adam Johnson is a real example of this. I reckon he will be let go by City. He is a quality player, who has had his chances fairly limited, despite once being the next big thing.

The problem is if our scouting is not up to scratch we are still going to miss out on the likes Johan Cabaye, as some of the players you mention stay under the radar for the very reasons which may make them an affordable purchase and good quality target.

The homegrown rule, also somewhat complicated the matter for us in the last 2 seasons and we seemed to climb over ourselves to sign all manner of English players, Henderson and Carroll form part of our long term strategy regarding that rule too IMO. They are seen as players who will remain here for their career, and effectively replace Gerrard and Carragher as the permanent home grown players.

[paperclips]

A.Johnson is a quality player for about 20-30mins a game.

[Insipidus]

Perhaps. But I feel thats more to do with the surroundings - if a player has a choice of Yaya Toure, David Silva, Kun Aguero or Adam Johnson, the ball isnt reaching the latter person much at all. He'd realistically cost no more than about £12M and would improve our first team immeasurably, and perhaps, as an old Boro boy, might inspire Downing to pick up his game a little.

[paperclips]

Well we need more players as we are playing in the EL next season.

Have not really watched the French, Spanish, Italian or German leagues or have really followed them in the past 2 years either so all i no is PL players.

[bell]

he was usually good for 20-30 minutes a game as that's all he was given, and has struggled to hold a place in the side to find any true form. Hardly surprising given the attacking players they have. He is undoubtedly good though (better than Downing IMO) and would represent good value for an English player (for once).

[LRJ]

I bet Zapata regrets choosing Villareal over us.

[jep]

Kenny and Steve Clarke meeting with FSG in Boston on wednesday afternoon apparently. The meeting was scheduled to happen later but Kenny asked for it to be brought forward. Should find out in the next few days what our future will look like!

[CaptainPlanet]

In my manflu-esque state I thought you were all on about Andy Johnson...

[bell]

In my manflu-esque state I thought you were all on about Andy Johnson...

Might score the odd penalty if we signed him

[niggle]

Kenny and Steve Clarke meeting with FSG in Boston on wednesday afternoon apparently. The meeting was scheduled to happen later but Kenny asked for it to be brought forward. Should find out in the next few days what our future will look like!

unfortunately i think he will get another season

[DeafParrot]

Like someone said earlier, he's not going to be dragged all the way out there to be fired. We're stuck with him

[Kopite]

Think people need to be a bit more careful what they're saying about Kenny. He could have a great summer and get us challenging for fourth next season. If he does I will bring this thread back up again. Just have some more patience and optimism, you never know. And if it doesn't work out we will move on, it's only football!

[Emersonlfc]

I really don't think my heart can take another season of the one we just had.

[Daaaaave]

respectfully disagree. loyalty is an important trait, but the simple truth is that kd hasn't done anything to inspire loyalty as a *manager* in 2 decades. this isn't simply a matter of a long-serving manager undergoing a rough season, as some may argue wenger went through at arsenal, but an old horse who may simply not be up to the job he's been away from for such a long time.

[Insipidus]

Think people need to be a bit more careful what they're saying about Kenny. He could have a great summer and get us challenging for fourth next season. If he does I will bring this thread back up again. Just have some more patience and optimism, you never know. And if it doesn't work out we will move on, it's only football!

I dont mean to peddle my point but you have claimed it is not about sentimentality here. In reality, if this was anyone but Kenny youd be calling for their head, and rightly so. He may or may not have a decent summer and he may or may not get us challenging for fourth, but the likelihood of both those occurrences is slim enough that he needs to go. Thats ignoring the point that our aim should not just be to challenge for fourth in the coming seasons.

[benjaminpeter]

The other way of looking at it is that it's not unheard of for a new team/squad to need a bedding in period. This and some bad luck has exacerbated the pressure KD is under. Not defending some of the players or tactics employed because it really has been diabolical at times, but unless he really has lost the dressing room I think one more season will be in order. Progress takes time.

[Insipidus]

I fear there is no point in debating this because Ive made my position clear, and if im honest my opinion is unlikely to change, but surely Kenny should have shown some promise to retain his position? If the players were to need a bedding in period then fair enough, but the tactics have largely been abysmal all season. I just struggle to think of an area that can redeem Kenny. Tactics, player purchases, media handling....all of it has been pretty poor this season.

[Emersonlfc]

Would Steve Clarke be going with Kenny if he was getting the sack?

[LRJ]

[Kopite]

I dont mean to peddle my point but you have claimed it is not about sentimentality here. In reality, if this was anyone but Kenny youd be calling for their head, and rightly so. He may or may not have a decent summer and he may or may not get us challenging for fourth, but the likelihood of both those occurrences is slim enough that he needs to go. Thats ignoring the point that our aim should not just be to challenge for fourth in the coming seasons.

Genuinely not because it is Kenny. I can honestly say in my memory of supporting Liverpool I've only called for one managers head and that was Hodgson. I thought Roy Evans could still have done more. Houllier I thought his time was up but was more than willing to give him another season. Rafa I was completely against him leaving. I feel Kenny needs time. We have played some great stuff at times. We have been very unlucky at times. There is no way that he deserves the sack. He deserves at least one more season. I would say it if we had gotten Martinez last leason or somebody like that. Our football has improved now this season we need to add results to that. Another change will mean another system to adopt for the players and another settling in period. Why not just give Kenny a chance.

I know a lot of people will be holding on to Kenny for sentimental reasons. I don't know how many of you live in the city but he is still worshipped and rightfuly so in my opinion. But I'm not letting that cloud my judgement it is just the way I feel.

[Divinity]

I wonder what you think the difference is between Souness' second season and Dalglish's.

[Joshyboy1984]

The difference is Souness got the gig after Liverpool won the title 6 out of the last 10 seasons and finished 2nd in the other 4. Not really comparable.