What is up with the Italian Serie A?

I am managing Inter, and Serie A has been outrageously weird for two seasons.

The first season, Sampdoria was my only competitor for the title before they capitulated a few games before the end of the season, and i won the league (Inter with a crapload of young, unexperienced players!), and Sampdoria ended up 4th while Bologna got the 2nd place. I mean, Sampdoria and Bologna for the title? Roma were 16th and Lazio was 17th.

The second season, its been 19 matches so far (half season) and i am again leading the charts, with Atalanta, Catania, and Torino trailing me before Juventus who are 5th. Napoli and Roma are fighting relegation.

Why is the game so easy for me? And why is Serie A so weird? This has 0.000000% chance of happening in real life.

Anyone else experiencing similar unrealism?

Can't really say about the rest, but I *believe* there's an issue with Roma consistently underperforming and often being relegated within a few seasons. Perhaps something similar applies to other teams? Either way, it was being looked into

probably just bad luck on those team parts.

In my two saves Liverpool fight relegation each year. That seems a bit off as well.

Success with Inter definitely sounds like an oxymoron/bug. I'd report it in the relevant forum.

roma got relegated on my first season at Serie A with empoli..

Success with Inter definitely sounds like an oxymoron/bug. I'd report it in the relevant forum.

Couldn't agree more. Some sort of hack has definitely been used here.

Or a heck load of saves. LOL

Couldn't agree more. Some sort of hack has definitely been used here.

Or a heck load of saves. LOL

Lol, to be honest, such success with Inter has even me (lifetime Inter fan) surprised. I expected a challenge, and such an easy road to the title has lost quite some enthusiasm for me to play this game. I will probably be bored of this save soon and start a new one.

Almost two seasns are over, and there has only been one re-load, when i asked my assistant to sell Kuzmanovic and i wasn't asked to confirm the transfer when Kuzmanovic asked for 51k EUR / week compensation for the next 4 years. I would never agree to that, and i did not know i wouldn't be asked, so i reloaded. Never another. It sucks.

Managing Inter as well.. and its quite easy. Just had a unbeaten season, 30 wins 8 draws.

Juventus have finished 4th in the table for a couple of seasons, my title rivals change every season and they're never good enough. The plus point is they do well in Europe and Serie A is now ranked second in the world..but the actual league is too easy.

Atalanta won the league in the second season with 88 points, one ahead of me. Not sure how they managed to win the league. Roma/Milan are midtable fodder.

This is not specific to Serie A, I'm almost certain there is some issue with full ME results being overly random. Matches simmed with the quick ME produce very realistic results. Matches simmed with the full ME are extremely random. This is why you see crazy results in your home league but results in other leagues look normal. In my first Ligue 1 season, I won the league (with PSG) but my top contenders were Rennes and Lorient. In my second season all the other "big" French clubs (Lyon, Marseille, Monaco, Lille) are completely absent from the Champions League because of this. I'm not at all surprised that people are seeing crazy stuff in other nations like Atalanta winning Serie A or Roma and Liverpool nearly being relegated.

I really hope the ME fixes in the upcoming patch address this because it's a big problem IMO.

Also here OM is last after half the season, Lyon is first second lorient and sochaux

PSG4th, monaco even 15th

With those results, I assume you're managing a Ligue 1 club, correct?

This is an very odd phenomenon and I'm not sure if SI have acknowledged it or not. It may not be a bug exactly, but for a game where realism is paramount, it's a petty big deal.

yes there is something wrong with italian Serie A. in all of my saves (more than 5) juventus are the only ones who always perform as fine as they do in RL and often win the league at the end of the season. however teams like Roma and Napoli ALWAYS underperform and ALWAYS end up outside of top 10 at th end, while Sampdoria and few other teams ALWAYS perform much better than expected and in one save Sampdoria even won the league, losing only 3 games ( one of those defeats was only because they had already become the champion so were using all the subs) and conceding less than 20. In French ligue 1 Monaco ALWAYS underperform in the 1st season as well.

With those results, I assume you're managing a Ligue 1 club, correct?

This is an very odd phenomenon and I'm not sure if SI have acknowledged it or not. It may not be a bug exactly, but for a game where realism is paramount, it's a petty big deal.

it has nothing to do with a bug, so it could be very difficult to fix.

it's their tactics

This is not specific to Serie A, I'm almost certain there is some issue with full ME results being overly random. Matches simmed with the quick ME produce very realistic results. Matches simmed with the full ME are extremely random. This is why you see crazy results in your home league but results in other leagues look normal. In my first Ligue 1 season, I won the league (with PSG) but my top contenders were Rennes and Lorient. In my second season all the other "big" French clubs (Lyon, Marseille, Monaco, Lille) are completely absent from the Champions League because of this. I'm not at all surprised that people are seeing crazy stuff in other nations like Atalanta winning Serie A or Roma and Liverpool nearly being relegated.

I really hope the ME fixes in the upcoming patch address this because it's a big problem IMO.

can't agree with you though, in all of my saves all of the leagues i add run with the full ME and the results from la liga, bundesliga and premier league are pretty "accurate", just what you would expect in RL.

Are you sure you're running with full ME? Remember just setting a league to "playable" does not necessarily mean you're running with the full ME. Also people here have already reported some funny results in the EPL with Swansea and Stoke finishing high and Liverpool coming close to relegation.

The problem definitely isn't just specific to Serie A.

Are you sure you're running with full ME? Remember just setting a league to "playable" does not necessarily mean you're running with the full ME. Also people here have already reported some funny results in the EPL with Swansea and Stoke finishing high and Liverpool coming close to relegation.

The problem definitely isn't just specific to Serie A.

definitely sure. in the detail level setting for any league i add i always choose "full" rather than "none". i know that oif you choose "none" then it's not running with full ME. yes the problem isn't specific to Serie A but it seems to me that that's one of the leauges where weird stuff happens the most.

West Brom won the EPL first season in my Australia game

From my tyears of playing FM, I've come to conclusion: play only british club for FM best experience.

At least till FM '13

How about Cagliari 1st, Chievo 2nd, Juventus 10th?

If you take a look at the Good Player and Team sub-forum and go to the Italian threads you will see the same teams usually in the top 5 in the first season. Juve, Napoli, Inter, Sampdoria, Milan/Fiorentina depending on who the human manager is. From my own saves I know Juventus and Napoli are always up there. Inter and Milan depending on variables. Sampdoria seems to do really well.

shows how unrealistic this game is....

in serie A Fiorentina and AC Milan relegated in the first season

EPL: Liverpool relegated first season

France: Monaco and Lille relegated first season

La Liga: At. Madrid fighting for relegation and 2nd season Barcelona out of the top 4 (yes top 4 lol!!)

Bundesliga: Bayern came 3rd behind Mainz first season.

what a game!

shows how unrealistic this game is....

in serie A Fiorentina and AC Milan relegated in the first season

EPL: Liverpool relegated first season

France: Monaco and Lille relegated first season

La Liga: At. Madrid fighting for relegation and 2nd season Barcelona out of the top 4 (yes top 4 lol!!)

Bundesliga: Bayern came 3rd behind Mainz first season.

what a game!

You'll have all the relevant evidence to back this up and to post in the bugs forum, yeah?

You'll have all the relevant evidence to back this up and to post in the bugs forum, yeah?

Why?

SI is running soak tests, where each of those leagues have been run thousands of times. Those teams should be relegated in a few of them, as a statistical probability. How on earth do people experience this as a rule, if the game is balanced correctly?

The issue is blindingly obvious and I have stated so several times but are still knocked down by several users and mods; certain styles of play are better than others. More so in FM14 than in FM13. In Italy, overloading the centre of the park is the norm, and from what I have heard it is a much better idea to attack wide. The ME will therefore more often fail to generate realistic results in Italy than in some of the other leagues. What on earth would a savegame do for SI in this case? It is not a bug but a design flaw!

If you aren't seeing this in your game you aren't looking closely enough or are deliberately overplaying the "could happen" card in order to be able to enjoy your game.

You'll have all the relevant evidence to back this up and to post in the bugs forum, yeah?

there are so many users who gave 'evidence' in the bugs forum - will post two of my games up today as well!

As someone who almost invariably plays in Italy, I'm kinda with BiggusD on this one.

there are so many users who gave 'evidence' in the bugs forum - will post two of my games up today as well!

Can you post the link where this evidence is please?

I looked for some earlier but couldn't find any at all in there, but I may have been looking in the wrong bit of the Bugs Forum (was looking in League Specific Issues).

6 games in and Lazio are bottom, but all the other big teams are the top.

sure will do tonight (after work)

FYI, a couple of weeks ago Miles Jacobson was in Milan, promoting the Italian version of FM14. They simulated the 2013/14 season, and the results were:

1 Juve

2 Napoli

3 Inter

4 Genoa

5 Fiorentina

6 Roma

7 Milan

In my two saves (Palermo and Plymouth) I'm subscribed to Juventus (favorite team); when I can, I watch their matches and they are on top of the league, but they struggle to get consistent results. They seem to suffer with a very specific "issue", I give you a hint

While I partially agree with BiggusD, I don't think the ME is the only problem. For once, I'd like to say, "it's their tactics". Juventus have a fairly defensive formation (3 DC, 1 DM, 2 WB) but an attacking mentality, Udinese play (or at least played in FM13) with a 541 and a fairly attacking mentality; if Conte and Guidolin posted their tactics here on the forum, they'd be skinned alive!

And there are a couple of long-standing issues:

1. What about the legendary tactical versatility of Italian managers? Unfortunately, you just can't replicate this in the game, as we all know managers have one or two preferred formation and that's it.

2. My personal crusade: 352 or 532? You watch real-life football and you see that managers playing with the so-called 352 actually use very defensive players on the flanks (D/WB); you watch a 352 in the game and you see that managers use AM R/L (if not strikers) in the M R/L positions. I think whoever is in charge of the tactical aspect of the game should think about this...

2. My personal crusade: 352 or 532? You watch real-life football and you see that managers playing with the so-called 352 actually use very defensive players on the flanks (D/WB); you watch a 352 in the game and you see that managers use AM R/L (if not strikers) in the M R/L positions. I think whoever is in charge of the tactical aspect of the game should think about this...

My 343 in FM13 is based on the boost given to lone wingbacks and wide midfielders. It is definitely there and it makes the usage of classic wingers with no defensive awareness whatsoever viable as the only wide players because they whizz up and down the entire side of the football field regardless of attributes (except speed - but they do get a speed boost defensively), tackling like veteran world-class full-backs and whatnot.

This makes it cheating to use a 3-man defense. I have no problems with that, but some will - if they allow themselves to truly observe objectively what's going on when the opponent winger has the ball.

In FM14 it appears that this has been offset by an imbalanced efficiency on wide play and crosses. I hope they have managed to balance the game better in the update.

FYI, a couple of weeks ago Miles Jacobson was in Milan, promoting the Italian version of FM14. They simulated the 2013/14 season, and the results were:

1 Juve

2 Napoli

3 Inter

4 Genoa

5 Fiorentina

6 Roma

7 Milan

In my two saves (Palermo and Plymouth) I'm subscribed to Juventus (favorite team); when I can, I watch their matches and they are on top of the league, but they struggle to get consistent results. They seem to suffer with a very specific "issue", I give you a hint

While I partially agree with BiggusD, I don't think the ME is the only problem. For once, I'd like to say, "it's their tactics". Juventus have a fairly defensive formation (3 DC, 1 DM, 2 WB) but an attacking mentality, Udinese play (or at least played in FM13) with a 541 and a fairly attacking mentality; if Conte and Guidolin posted their tactics here on the forum, they'd be skinned alive!

And there are a couple of long-standing issues:

1. What about the legendary tactical versatility of Italian managers? Unfortunately, you just can't replicate this in the game, as we all know managers have one or two preferred formation and that's it.

2. My personal crusade: 352 or 532? You watch real-life football and you see that managers playing with the so-called 352 actually use very defensive players on the flanks (D/WB); you watch a 352 in the game and you see that managers use AM R/L (if not strikers) in the M R/L positions. I think whoever is in charge of the tactical aspect of the game should think about this...

the last part has been said in the forums at least since fm10. for 4 years SI couldnt fix what would just be 2-3 clicks of work.

My 343 in FM13 is based on the boost given to lone wingbacks and wide midfielders. It is definitely there and it makes the usage of classic wingers with no defensive awareness whatsoever viable as the only wide players because they whizz up and down the entire side of the football field regardless of attributes (except speed - but they do get a speed boost defensively), tackling like veteran world-class full-backs and whatnot.

This makes it cheating to use a 3-man defense. I have no problems with that, but some will - if they allow themselves to truly observe objectively what's going on when the opponent winger has the ball.

In FM14 it appears that this has been offset by an imbalanced efficiency on wide play and crosses. I hope they have managed to balance the game better in the update.

Please stop spreading misinformation about the game, thanks.

My 343 in FM13 is based on the boost given to lone wingbacks and wide midfielders. It is definitely there and it makes the usage of classic wingers with no defensive awareness whatsoever viable as the only wide players because they whizz up and down the entire side of the football field regardless of attributes (except speed - but they do get a speed boost defensively), tackling like veteran world-class full-backs and whatnot.

This makes it cheating to use a 3-man defense. I have no problems with that, but some will - if they allow themselves to truly observe objectively what's going on when the opponent winger has the ball.

In FM14 it appears that this has been offset by an imbalanced efficiency on wide play and crosses. I hope they have managed to balance the game better in the update.

The game doesn't work like this at all so please stop spreading lies. I'm not sure why you do it but lots of your posts about how the game works are wrong in every single aspect. You was called out on this before when you ventured over to the tactics forum for your very brief stint and then claimed people were victimising you for being blunt and tell you that you was wrong.

the last part has been said in the forums at least since fm10. for 4 years SI couldnt fix what would just be 2-3 clicks of work.

I registered in 2002, so I guess it has been said since 2003

And I don't think it would be so easy to fix. Well, for a start they could erase every formation with 3 DC and no WB... But I still would like to know how is it possible that an AI manager (who is supposed to know how the game works) thinks is a wise idea to use an AM R with tackling 6 in the M R spot in a 352...

I registered in 2002, so I guess it has been said since 2003

And I don't think it would be so easy to fix. Well, for a start they could erase every formation with 3 DC and no WB... But I still would like to know how is it possible that an AI manager (who is supposed to know how the game works) thinks is a wise idea to use an AM R with tackling 6 in the M R spot in a 352...

it actually really needs just a few clicks. change the wingplayers in the standard 3 defense systems from ML/MR to WBL/WBR and the AI will pick the right players for the formation.

If you have examples of bizarre finishing positions in Serie A, please raise them on our bugs forum and upload relevant save games so we can take a look and try to figure out why this could be happening.

Bugs Forum here - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/359

FTP details here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/368795

Thanks.

What finishing positions are sufficiently "bizarre" to warrant FTPing them over as a bug report? As I mentioned a few posts up, I had most of the big French clubs (Monaco, Lyon, Lille, Marseille) all finish mid-table and fail to qualify for Europe. None were relegated, and I still won the league as PSG, but the league results on the whole seemed extraordinarily random. I'm not sure if this qualifies as a bug or just a minor oddity, though.

it actually really needs just a few clicks. change the wingplayers in the standard 3 defense systems from ML/MR to WBL/WBR and the AI will pick the right players for the formation.

Sure!

But it's not just about picking the right players for a formation. I'm more concerned about the internal logic (I can't find a better expression) of the game, and the ME in particular. So, some managers "like" 352, 343, 3412 etc. They think they should use attacking players in the M R/L positions. That's ok... Does the game "punish" them? If the ME "understands" how unrealistic these formations + players combinations are, then there's a problem with the researchers and/or with the creators of the default 352, 343 etc. If the ME thinks these formations are solid, sound and indeed very effective, then there's a problem with the ME.

The game doesn't work like this at all so please stop spreading lies. I'm not sure why you do it but lots of your posts about how the game works are wrong in every single aspect. You was called out on this before when you ventured over to the tactics forum for your very brief stint and then claimed people were victimising you for being blunt and tell you that you was wrong.

Have you even tried a 343 with extremely attacking-minded wingers set to WM-S? Or a 352 for that matter.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

As you can see here, my young winger Amrani's best defensive feature is his 14 Work Rate. Yet, he defends excellently the whole match completely controlling his side. Yes he is quick, but no-one is so quick that he runs twice the distance of the opposition winger (who has acres of space down the side because of a blocked pass aimed at a waiting Amrani) in the same amount of time. Sadly I couldn't upload a video since this is the last league match in the previous season, and the record option is therefore greyed out. I haven't started the new season yet and I don't play friendlies myself.

Also note that he runs the second most of my entire team (in 78 minutes), which consists of several players with 20 Work Rate and a majority well above 16. The one who ran the most is this slightly more capable defender:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

With 12 in Work Rate, I think 14.9 kilometers in a match is extremely impressive.

Are you really telling me that this amount of full-trot diligent running up and down the flanks is unintentional? It is there; I have seen it for several hundred hours with dozens of different players, and many of them even less capable of doing this superhuman task than Amrani.

I am not spreading disinformation, but if you have a better explanation than hard-coded compensation, please go ahead and tell me because I truly want to know why this is not causing a horrible amount of punishment with this tactic.

Italy has been like this for a while. Most teams are over indebted in game and their CA/PA are too low. Nothing new.

BiggusD, how do FM13 screenshots help to prove or disprove a FM14 query?

BiggusD, how do FM13 screenshots help to prove or disprove a FM14 query?

Well, if you actually read what I said in my post, I responded to sirgiorgio's post about the type of players the AI uses as wide midfielders or wingbacks in 3-man defense formations and pointed out very clearly that I was talking about FM13. The last sentence tied this to FM14.

The fact is that you, Cleon and Ackter are wrong and I am right regarding how lone wide players work with a 3-man defense in FM13. Regarding whether or not this is also the case in FM14 I rely on what other people have observed and not my own experience since I have played FM14 so little.

Make an attacking 343, put some lazy, dribble-oriented wingers on the flanks as WM-S and see for yourself. You'll enjoy complete control defensively down both flanks most of the time. Yes you are punished now and then but that is the exception not the rule.

Well, if you actually read what I said in my post... pointed out very clearly that I was talking about FM13.

No, you didn't.

The last sentence tied this to FM14.

No, it didn't.

The fact is that you, Cleon and Ackter are wrong and I am right regarding how lone wide players work with a 3-man defense in FM13.

I haven't commented specifically on wide players in this thread, nor have Cleon or Ackter.

Cleon and Ackter have implied that you spread misinformation about the game, and a glance at your posting history confirms to me that this is a fair implication.

There is a difference between articulating subjective views on your experiences of the game, and presenting those views as proof of the way the Match Engine works.

Oh Snap Son.

With all seriousness, Italian Serie A has been poor database wise & league simulation wise. The never ending co-loan spams, unrealistic transfers between clubs inside the league, the static stats that hardly ever change (player attributes & personalities) and etc... I've complained about them long ago since 2006 but little has been changed.

Anyway it's just my perception please do not release your flamethrowers on me mods.

In the EPL the overall experience is far much better and every year (version) we see some players improve (change) attribute and personality wise, not the same case with the Serie A though, although EPL is far from perfect as well but it's much better than Serie A.

Any one remember back in the days of CM, more specifically Zidane in Juventus? he had a determination of 5 and stayed that way for a few versions till he moved to Madrid. His determination was then changed to 14 (if my memory serves me well). But thats one example out of many more in which I'm sure the folks in the forums can share.

I love any post that claims Cleon is wrong when it comes to something tactically in the ME.

Oh Snap Son.

With all seriousness, Italian Serie A has been poor database wise & league simulation wise. The never ending co-loan spams, unrealistic transfers between clubs inside the league, the static stats that hardly ever change (player attributes & personalities) and etc... I've complained about them long ago since 2006 but little has been changed.

Anyway it's just my perception please do not release your flamethrowers on me mods.

If you have complained appropriately in the Bugs Forum regarding those issues, then that is disappointing.

It is critical that any "complaints" are posted in the right areas, or they are likely to go unseen by SI.

My 343 in FM13 is based on the boost given to lone wingbacks and wide midfielders. It is definitely there and it makes the usage of classic wingers with no defensive awareness whatsoever viable as the only wide players because they whizz up and down the entire side of the football field regardless of attributes (except speed - but they do get a speed boost defensively), tackling like veteran world-class full-backs and whatnot.

This makes it cheating to use a 3-man defense. I have no problems with that, but some will - if they allow themselves to truly observe objectively what's going on when the opponent winger has the ball.

In FM14 it appears that this has been offset by an imbalanced efficiency on wide play and crosses. I hope they have managed to balance the game better in the update.

So you're not actually responding to what I say but to me, then?