Goal difference or Head to head?

What's your opinion on this? Obviously on the 'old' system Russia would have gone through at Greece's expense due to better goal difference. Personally I think head to head is a better decided between two teams on the same points, seems a bit stupid to go out to a team you beat imo. However there are people who prefer goal difference as it rewards more attacking teams.

Replay will be fascinating.

Head to head for me definitely, hate team who go through any tournament purely because they scored 1 or 2 goals more than the other team.

Head to head easily.

HTH definitely.

Head to head. Nothing worse than a team going out to someone they beat purely because the team they tied with spanked the whipping boys by more.

H2H obv, why on earth do England still use GD?

HtH It also rewards victory

Head to head. However, if teams are equal on head to head points (e.g., if Italy win while Spain and Croatia draw), then goal difference from all matches should be the next tiebreaker.

GD takes into account all the games played, rather than one game.

Head-to-head.

Ofcourse if it includes 3 teams (Like in Group B can happen) it must be about GD, then Goal scored..

Head to head. However, if teams are equal on head to head points (e.g., if Italy win while Spain and Croatia draw), then goal difference from all matches should be the next tiebreaker.

Head to Head means that the result of the match played between two teams would be used between the overall goal difference between the teams for all their matches.

To be honest yes I think head to head is better but then I suprised to see so many thought the same so yeah good stuff. Last nights game proved that to the extreme, Greece beat Russia and that alone sent the greeks through which is great. I mean it is a bit just silly to say right, greece have to beat russia by 3 goals just cos of other results. Just to clarify it is the same for the champions league group stage isnt it, yes I assume it is. However in terms of the premierleague thats a bit different just because there are so many other games and lets say you get 4 points off your rival team and its early on in the season (Jan-Feb), there would be no incentive to win by bigger margins later on. Ok this year was the classic case but of course city had got the better h2h record.

Anyway yes h2h on the whole is much better

Head to head for a format like the euros (ie 4 team group) as Gd could just mean whoever scores most against the whipping boys as mentioned above.

For a domestic league I prefer goal difference as its over a much wider scales (38 games), as opposed to h2h over just two games within those 38

Head to head for a format like the euros (ie 4 team group) as Gd could just mean whoever scores most against the whipping boys as mentioned above.

For a domestic league I prefer goal difference as its over a much wider scales (38 games), as opposed to h2h over just two games within those 38

Yes a good summary of what I said, cheers Blueglobefootball123

I prefer the other way, H2H for leagues and GD for tournaments as you end up with these silly scenarios such as Spain and Croatia going through with a 2-2 draw. Three-way ties complicate things too.

Head to head, means the harder more important games take precedence over freak or lucky results where on team puts 4- goals by another but loses against heir direct rivals and still qualify.

Goal difference for me comfortably.

Except on this occasion, because I support Samaras!

I prefer goal difference and I think one decent result can really help out a side in head to head in a 4-team group.

This is basically cause of the 1978 World Cup and Peru helping out Argentina in the 2nd round group game. This will set off PMLF's Brazil radar but Argentina needed a certain goal swing and wouldn't you know, Peru with their Argentinian born goal keeper ended up rolled 6-0 and Argentina went through over Brazil on goal difference.

This is the problem, eliminated teams may jack it in. However, if the main principals drew then it could still be a factor a la England vs France and France playing the already eliminated Swedes. I don't think anything dodgy will happen it's just how much fight will Sweden have if they go 1-0 down. There's no French born Swedish keeper is there?

Good 'ol Peru

Head to head. Nothing worse than a team going out to someone they beat purely because the team they tied with spanked the whipping boys by more.

But now Russia go out despite having beaten the Czechs convincingly...

there's always going to be stuff like that mo matter what the tie breaker is

Head to head. However, if teams are equal on head to head points (e.g., if Italy win while Spain and Croatia draw), then goal difference from all matches should be the next tiebreaker.

This. It's a variance that perhaps on first glance seems complicated, but avoids that one scenario.

Qolumbo has it right.

If more than 2 teams are even it is a 'mini league' as you describe (I think) noikeee

I dont understand how the groups tables work. Holland can still go through even though they lost to Denmark head to head and Italy can go out if Spain and Croatia draw 2-2 despite they all drew with each other. Can anyone explain how it works please.

If Holland win and Germany win then Portugal/Denmark/Holland will all have 3 points. Portugal beat Denmark by 1, Denmark beat Holland by 1, so to break the tie Holland need to beat Portgual by 2. As for group C, Italy drew 1-1 with Spain and Croatia, so a 2-2 beats a 1-1 because of goals scored.

If Holland win and Germany win then Portugal/Denmark/Holland will all have 3 points. Portugal beat Denmark by 1, Denmark beat Holland by 1, so to break the tie Holland need to beat Portgual by 2. As for group C, Italy drew 1-1 with Spain and Croatia, so a 2-2 beats a 1-1 because of goals scored.

Ahh ok thanks so doesn't matter if Italy win 6-0 as long as Croatia draw 2-2 Italy go out.

Yeah, stupid right.

Like when Portugal went 1-0 down today, they're bottom of the group, Germany score and suddenly they bounce back up to 2nd.

What's your opinion on this? Obviously on the 'old' system Russia would have gone through at Greece's expense due to better goal difference. Personally I think head to head is a better decided between two teams on the same points, seems a bit stupid to go out to a team you beat imo. However there are people who prefer goal difference as it rewards more attacking teams.

Your question is a bit to simplistic worded as head-to-head includes a goal difference and goals scored component. So rather it comes down to if you value a teams performance in all matches in the competition more than you value their performance in a few specific matches (even though most people posting here, presumably you too, seems to understand this I still think it is important to make this clear for those that isn't as clued up on the rules).

And that said this is, for me, an easy choice, overall results all the way. The aim in a league system (that's basically what the group stage is) is to do as well as possible against all the other teams in that league and I don't see why any subset of those matches should, after the fact, be decided to take precedence over the other results.

Interestingly enough UEFA uses H2H results over overall GD/GS while FIFA uses all overall results before any H2H results (FIFA also goes straight to the drawing of lots after overall and H2H results while UEFA has qualifying coefficient and fair play ranking ahead of lots).

Head to head. However, if teams are equal on head to head points (e.g., if Italy win while Spain and Croatia draw), then goal difference from all matches should be the next tiebreaker.

That really isn't a bad idea. Not bad at all, you should fire away a mail to UEFA.

If more than 2 teams are even it is a 'mini league' as you describe (I think) noikeee

I think you misunderstood noikeee, he was in agreement with Qolumbo that suggested a change to the current mini-league format.

Ah, I see .

I think h2h in a league format is a lot fairer. Teams have had 38 games to gain superiority over each other. If they are still equal at the end of that all, it seems only logical in making a choice between them, we see how they have performed when they have met.

In the context of a group in a tournament, I’m don’t have a particular preference. I may lean slightly towards gd.

I think h2h in a league format is a lot fairer. Teams have had 38 games to gain superiority over each other. If they are still equal at the end of that all, it seems only logical in making a choice between them, we see how they have performed when they have met.

But they are only equal in one aspect of their performances, why not consider any other aspects of their performances?

Surely they are going to have to scrap head-to-head for Euro 2016 and beyond?

24 team tournament means they will have to revert to the WC86 / WC90 / WC94 format, with six groups of four, and the top two going through along with the four best 3rd-place teams. But they may have to use GD to compare 3rd place teams and decide which ones get through. Could they really have a format where someone goes up from 3rd to 2nd because of head-to-head record, and pushes a team with a massive goal difference down to third? Not really fair on the other groups. Or is it?

:confused:

They will just sort all the 3rd placed teams into their own table and the top 4 of that table will go through with all the goal differences, etc that involves so obviously no head to head amongst them but could still exist for sorting the top 2

But they are only equal in one aspect of their performances, why not consider any other aspects of their performances?

Why do we crown a team champions if it is better by 1 point in just one aspect of a matrix of stats? Because It happens to be the most important aspect? Otherwise why use points at all to determine who wins a championship?

I also don’t happen to believe that the team that is the most offensive should necessarily be seen as being the better team. Especially if that offensive nature didn’t manage to get a better result over the team it is being compared against.

Head to Head so lame. Prefer GD.

Why do we crown a team champions if it is better by 1 point in just one aspect of a matrix of stats? Because It happens to be the most important aspect? Otherwise why use points at all to determine who wins a championship?

Yes of course points in the most important stat. My issue with your reasoning is that you make it the only important stat and ignore all other full season stats.

I also don’t happen to believe that the team that is the most offensive should necessarily be seen as being the better team.

"Goal difference" doesn't just reward the most offensive team though. It rewards the team with a combined superior offensive and defensive record. "Goals scored" would be the stat that rewards offensive teams only and there I can see you having a point about it is a good stat to use. However I also think that if you'd ask all football fans you'd get a majority wanting to see goals being scored and thus also have teams being rewarded for scoring more than the bare minimum.

They will just sort all the 3rd placed teams into their own table and the top 4 of that table will go through with all the goal differences, etc that involves so obviously no head to head amongst them but could still exist for sorting the top 2

Yes but before you can make that 3rd placed table you have to sort out each individual groups table to determine who is the 3rd placed team. And if you continue using H2H for that you could very well have a team with a +10 goal difference score finishing 3rd due to a inferior H2H record while having a team with a +1 goal difference finishing 2nd due to a superior H2H record. So Rob's question was something like this, would it be fair on the other 3rd placed team to have to be compared to the +10 GD team instead of against the +1 GD team? You would be using different criteria of what's good in the different tables.

A team with a +10 and 3rd has more likely trounced the rubbish team of the group so being +10 doesn't mean they don't deserve to be 3rd, that's UEFA's beef with it. Being a +10 team doesn't make it unfair either imo to be compared to other 3rd placed teams either

H2H, more complicated when there a 3 way tie. Just how UEFA like it.

I'd would have thought that the 6, 3rd place teams in 2016 would be seperated by goal difference and goals scored. Would be interesting how the seperate them beyond that though.

That's the thing.

I don't mind it being H2H except for the 3rd placed teams. I don't think that's so odd as I really can't see UEFA reverting to GD for the whole tournament as they seem to be veering away from that

A team with a +10 and 3rd has more likely trounced the rubbish team of the group so being +10 doesn't mean they don't deserve to be 3rd, that's UEFA's beef with it. Being a +10 team doesn't make it unfair either imo to be compared to other 3rd placed teams either

But if the +GD from playing that rubbish team isn't worthy of being used for comparison against the other teams in the same group (who all had the opportunity to play against that rubbish team) then how could it be worthy of being used for comparison against the other 3rd placed teams???

H2H, more complicated when there a 3 way tie. Just how UEFA like it.

I'd would have thought that the 6, 3rd place teams in 2016 would be seperated by goal difference and goals scored. Would be interesting how the seperate them beyond that though.

I'd assume the would use the same criteria as they do now, i.e coefficient ranking and fair play ranking and then finally the drawing of lots.

Cause sometimes the 4th placed/rubbish team may be out already when they play the +10 team and just roll over. Is it fair a team that didn't play so well in head to head games gets through as they trounced a side that was already eliminated when the others in the group narrowly won as there was something at stake at that time?

It's pretty much all they got for the 3rd placed teams though I mean this has come up before, when there's been play-offs for qualifiers and 'the best 2nd placed team ...' goes through (a la Sweden for this?) then the others are paired up for play offs then they obviously do the mini-table and goal difference thing despite some of the groups being shocking