What a Joke

Ok, I can accept if i have a one or two goal lead and a top side comes back to draw with me or beat me but being 4-0 up at half time (5-1 up 5 minutes later) and the opposition coming back to draw 5-5 is a ****ing joke.

Not to mention that the other team is Fulham who are 2nd from bottom.

This has happened so many time since i've been promoted. I have lead in at least half of my few games in the premiership and yet I havn't won any of them. MASSIVE WTF

1. You are away from home

2. Their manager obviously gave them a rollicking at half time

3. That's football sometimes!!!!

The simple answer is teamtalks & tactics.

Ok, I can accept if i have a one or two goal lead and a top side comes back to draw with me or beat me but being 4-0 up at half time (5-1 up 5 minutes later) and the opposition coming back to draw 5-5 is a ****ing joke.

Not to mention that the other team is Fulham who are 2nd from bottom.

This has happened so many time since i've been promoted. I have lead in at least half of my few games in the premiership and yet I havn't won any of them. MASSIVE WTF

Couple of things, firstly, please don't swear. There's absolutely no need. Secondly, did you change your tactics at all? Because the home team would have started to attack more as they scored each goal to try to salvage something. If you didn't react tactically, then the person you need to blame for the defeat is yourself I'm afraid.

Ouch! The game is giving you a hard time I guess...

The simple answer is teamtalks & tactics.

I disagree. That's just the game acting stupid. I mean seriously, what kind of team talks would disrupt the team so much? "Go out and lose the game you idiots!"

And it's not the tactics either. What did he do? Change the tactic to 2-3-5? lol

It happens...

I'm sure if it was the other way around you'd be over the moon with it...

Last season, Champions League quater finals. Barcelona v Derby (me) first leg.

Within 5 minutes I was 1-0 down from an absolute screamer! Within 15 minutes I was 2-0 down with a headed chance. By the half I was 3-0 down... just poor defending. Let their player run through. Very dissapointing. But wait, a team talk later and we're back in with a shout with a goal just after the break, 3-1 from a headed chance. It's a good run and a goal from it for 3-2. An even better screamer than their's for 3-3.

The second leg was a completely different story, 4-0 for a simple 7-3 win.

I was happy with that one. If it was the other way around I'd be ripping my hair out!

There is a very clear image in my mind's eye as the OP watches key highlight after key highlight...FFC is shown taking chance after chance as the OP stares at the screen and does nothing but swear at it...

Ouch! The game is giving you a hard time I guess...

I disagree. That's just the game acting stupid. I mean seriously, what kind of team talks would disrupt the team so much? "Go out and lose the game you idiots!"

And it's not the tactics either. What did he do? Change the tactic to 2-3-5? lol

It could be more about the opposition playing poorly originally, getting fired up by the manager and building in confidence after each goal. If he failed to counter the comeback in any way shape or form he can hardly blame anyone but himself for not sorting out a team that was getting rattled.

It happens, get used to it.

This has happened so many time since i've been promoted. I have lead in at least half of my few games in the premiership and yet I havn't won any of them.

That doesn't tell you anything? If you keep losing leads then you need to look at our team and tactics. I would use the tactics forum to get some help on this.

It happens...

I'm sure if it was the other way around you'd be over the moon with it...

Last season, Champions League quater finals. Barcelona v Derby (me) first leg.

Within 5 minutes I was 1-0 down from an absolute screamer! Within 15 minutes I was 2-0 down with a headed chance. By the half I was 3-0 down... just poor defending. Let their player run through. Very dissapointing. But wait, a team talk later and we're back in with a shout with a goal just after the break, 3-1 from a headed chance. It's a good run and a goal from it for 3-2. An even better screamer than their's for 3-3.

I did the opposite of this. I Was 3-0 down at half time (away), and drew 3-3! Then the exact same thing nearly happened in the next game! Fell behind 3-0 again, but only managed to bring it back to 3-2

At half time my Assistant's advice was 'pleased' so i used that. I can possibly see how one or two players would get a little complacent but no way would that team talk make the whole team play crap for the rest of the match.

As for tactics, when it got to 5-3 I changed to 5-4-1 and yet their 2 strikers completely outplayed my back 5.

I literally cannot remember the last time such a comeback happened. The only one any where near it (known well) was Liverpool's champions league final win in 2005.

You scored 4 in one half, they scored 5 in one half. Who are you moaning at and who are you blaming for this defeat, because surely it's not your fault.

You scored 4 in one half, they scored 5 in one half. Who are you moaning at and who are you blaming for this defeat, because surely it's not your fault.

The game dick face

That's a flaw in the AI, the AI is a flaw that mingles with the ME, the ME is flawed everywhere, not your fault.

I must confess I do sympathise with the OP to some extent. Yes we all know it happens, and yes maybe a change in tactics in some eyes may have helped.......but.......... at times the game doesn't take into account certain situations when launching an AI comeback.

1. He is 4-0 up at half time. So he is doing something right, but at times the game seems to destroy your teams good performance without good reason.

2. Again, and I have mentioned it before, the game sometimes doesn't account for "confidence" correctly. His team are high on confidence so despite what the opposition do his side shouldn't capitulate like that. As he says Fulham are a bottom two side so they should be destroyed not buoyed. If it were a mid table or a top side then ok I can understand it, but there is as much reasoning for him to go and win the game 9-0 rather than draw or lose, but lets face it how many times in FM have you seen a fantastic first half by your side continuing into a fantastic second half? Rarely.

3. It's all very well telling the fella to change his tactics. I've almost given up on this. You go 2-0 up, go a little more defensive and almost always invite pressure and the AI scores. You go more attacking because you think they will attack and the AI scores!! I have learnt now just to try and ride it out more often than not and rather than change tactics just make substitutions, usually in the CM and CB areas due to falling fitness. However yet again this is only a thing the game requires because IRL if there is no need then you should never change your back 4.

The game **** face

Thanks. Instead of blaming the game, be pro-active and do something that will help you, start a thread asking for advice instead of a moaning thread. In my opinion you should maybe have put a DM, time wasted and gone to a more defensive mindset.

And this is another one of those "randomness" moments, a team will never score 5 goals after being 4-0 at half time, they are completely shot of confidence, are being completely outclassed, and you should ask why more goals weren't scored in the second half for the team that was 4-0 up, if they had total possession of the ball?

It's disgraceful to see people assaulting the original poster by give him amateur, childish advice like putting a DM on - why should he, he's 4-0 and there's no reason for the other team to score.

This game is an absolute **** hole, and this is another reason why. FM 2010 needs a major change, just about everything in this version needs to be looked at, as it's unrealistic.

I think my advice is good. If you have just been promoted and have lost leads in the past then I would maybe have put on a youngster and stopped the other team having any chance by slowing the pace of the game down and wasting time.

I think my advice is good. If you have just been promoted and have lost leads in the past then I would maybe have put on a youngster and stopped the other team having any chance by slowing the pace of the game down and wasting time.

If you play the game then surely you can see that even if you change your tactics to a more defensive style, the opposition still go on to score against you.

Like I said, I put 5 at the back and they still managed to score 2 more goals against me.

Just doesnt make sense.

a team will never score 5 goals after being 4-0 at half time

Indeed. Because real managers of football clubs are usually fairly bright individuals. They would have made changes at half-time to prevent something like that happening.

And this is another one of those "randomness" moments, a team will never score 5 goals after being 4-0 at half time, they are completely shot of confidence, are being completely outclassed, and you should ask why more goals weren't scored in the second half for the team that was 4-0 up, if they had total possession of the ball?

It's disgraceful to see people assaulting the original poster by give him amateur, childish advice like putting a DM on - why should he, he's 4-0 and there's no reason for the other team to score.

This game is an absolute **** hole, and this is another reason why. FM 2010 needs a major change, just about everything in this version needs to be looked at, as it's unrealistic.

Well, not quite what you want, but in 1976, Bayern beat Bochum 5-6 after going 4-0 down after 53 minutes (then it went 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, 4-4, 4-5, 5-5, 5-6). In 1952, the USSR were 5-1 up against Yugoslavia and the final score was 5-5. In 1966, Portugal were 3-0 down against North Korea before winning 5-3. Over two legs, you might remember Deportivo 4-0 Milan (5-4 agg), but that's just one of the less interesting results.

So no, it's not impossible.

Goign defensive is rarely the answer, especially with a newly promoted team. Should pushed up and played at a slower tempo or something, I don't know your team so I can't tell you what would of worked, but you cna definetely stop the opposition scoring 5 times in 45 minutes with tactics.

Well, not quite what you want, but in 1976, Bayern beat Bochum 5-6 after going 4-0 down after 53 minutes (then it went 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, 4-4, 4-5, 5-5, 5-6). In 1952, the USSR were 5-1 up against Yugoslavia and the final score was 5-5. In 1966, Portugal were 3-0 down against North Korea before winning 5-3. Over two legs, you might remember Deportivo 4-0 Milan (5-4 agg), but that's just one of the less interesting results.

So no, it's not impossible.

The sheer fact that you have to go back to 1952 to find an example shows that this happens once every blue moon. How can you justify a result like this as being normal if you can't provide an example in the last 30 years??

The sheer fact that you have to go back to 1952 to find an example shows that this happens once every blue moon. How can you justify a result like this as being normal if you can't provide an example in the last 30 years??

I never said it was normal. moj said it was impossible - I said it wasn't. And there's a big gap between "normal" and "impossible".

I think it's unusual but then again even at 4-0 up at half-time, you do not continue to play the same way you did in the first half. No team does - they sit back slightly, play tighter, narrower, slower and more defensively to ensure that an unlikely outcome is even more unlikely.

I never said it was normal. moj said it was impossible - I said it wasn't. And there's a big gap between "normal" and "impossible".

I think it's unusual but then again even at 4-0 up at half-time, you do not continue to play the same way you did in the first half. No team does - they sit back slightly, play tighter, narrower, slower and more defensively to ensure that an unlikely outcome is even more unlikely.

Right, so you're telling me that a manager who has just seen his team play the opposition off the pitch and whose players can't stop scoring, would want to change his tactics. Surely doing that is far more risky than leaving it as they were. The original tactics are clearly working and I had no idea how different tactics would work against the opposition.

Right, so you're telling me that a manager who has just seen his team play the opposition off the pitch and whose players can't stop scoring, would want to change his tactics. Surely doing that is far more risky than leaving it as they were. The original tactics are clearly working and I had no idea how different tactics would work against the opposition.

Yes, they were clearly working against the way the opposition played in the first half. But in the second half they completely changed the way they played, and you didn't react correctly.

Yours is an extreme example, but it's not impossible. If it happened every week, I'd be as concerned as anybody, but as it is I'm afraid I have to utter that dreaded phrase and say that, on this occasion, it really is your tactics.

Of course you can blame the guys tactics to some extent, but SI seriously need to look at team talks as well.

In its current state, I sometimes feel that I'm better off going in 1-0 down than 2-0 up!

At 1-0 down I give the lads a rollicking and they play like gods in the second half, at 2-0 up, if you dare to say pleased, they get their cigars out and stand around and watch the other team comeback to win

Yes, they were clearly working against the way the opposition played in the first half. But in the second half they completely changed the way they played, and you didn't react correctly.

Yours is an extreme example, but it's not impossible. If it happened every week, I'd be as concerned as anybody, but as it is I'm afraid I have to utter that dreaded phrase and say that, on this occasion, it really is your tactics.

It's time to play tactics merry-go-round again. If the OP had gone more defensive to start the second half - then you might have told him he shouldn't have changed his tactics so drastically. Sure, the proper alignment of different slider settings might have helped, but the AI's super-attacking tactic can be too unrealistically effective. I think people want a more realistic game, rather than a game where they feel certain slider settings will beat the SI match engine.

Right, so you're telling me that a manager who has just seen his team play the opposition off the pitch and whose players can't stop scoring, would want to change his tactics. Surely doing that is far more risky than leaving it as they were. The original tactics are clearly working and I had no idea how different tactics would work against the opposition.

Well, from a game theory point of view, the answer is yes!

Imagine you are the half-time losing team.

If you go in at half-time and your team has just been thumped 4-0, you will obviously change your tactics as something's not working. Although at 4-0, it's less about getting players to perform but damage limitation. So perhaps they'll knock 4 off their mentality, stop forward runs and counter-attack.

As it turns out, though, playing defensively and counter-attacking is a good tactic to use against better teams, or at least those that can thump you 4-0. So it turns out that they are actually slightly better in the second half against you. 4-1 plus a dodgy set-piece could become a very uncomfortable 4-2. And then it could blow up.

Because the onus is on the losing team to get something out of it, you should therefore not sit on your laurels and change your tactics somewhat. It doesn't have to be a massive change (i.e. 4-4-2 to 5-4-1 with a sweeper), but it could be as simple as dropping mentality by a notch or two, slowing tempo by a notch or two, stopping some of your forward runs, reducing creative freedom and ticking counter-attacks. The essence of your 4-0 tactic still exists, but it is modified to suit the current situation.

Mate, it's football. Don't like it, don't play it.

Flawed AI and flawed ME = not the OPs fault.

That kinda thing happens once a season in real life, if that (losing 4-0 and drawing 5-5), but in FM, it happens far too often in semi finals with two legs, and when you have a team that is too good for your clubs reputation - and it has been this way for years and years, so don't expect it to change.

Most of the time, making sensible defensive changes in this game seems to trigger these types of come backs - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't in FM

In fact, I remember playing a Champions League quarter final in FM09 against Shaktar over and over and over. I would consistently win the first leg comfortably - 5-0, 4-1, 3-0, and then no matter if i went defensive in the second leg, attacking, starting attacking and switching to defensive, starting defensive and switching to attacking, altering team talks, changing formation (i replayed it about 15 times, both legs) - the match always went to penalties. 15 times out of 15.

Flawed AI and flawed ME = not the OPs fault.

That kinda thing happens once a season in real life, if that (losing 4-0 and drawing 5-5), but in FM, it happens far too often in semi finals with two legs, and when you have a team that is too good for your clubs reputation - and it has been this way for years and years, so don't expect it to change.

Most of the time, making sensible defensive changes in this game seems to trigger these types of come backs - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't in FM

In fact, I remember playing a Champions League quarter final in FM09 against Shaktar over and over and over. I would consistently win the first leg comfortably - 5-0, 4-1, 3-0, and then no matter if i went defensive in the second leg, attacking, starting attacking and switching to defensive, starting defensive and switching to attacking, altering team talks, changing formation (i replayed it about 15 times, both legs) - the match always went to penalties. 15 times out of 15.

Shouldn't have gone attacking or defensive in the second leg tbh. Should have gone counter-attacking. IMO it's a big mistake to adopt a purely defensive strategy when you're facing an attack - far better to try to counter attack - break up the play, drop two players into holding midfield roles, and set your wingers to act as outlets for when your team get the ball, etc, etc.

Flawed AI and flawed ME = not the OPs fault.

That kinda thing happens once a season in real life, if that (losing 4-0 and drawing 5-5), but in FM, it happens far too often in semi finals with two legs, and when you have a team that is too good for your clubs reputation - and it has been this way for years and years, so don't expect it to change.

Most of the time, making sensible defensive changes in this game seems to trigger these types of come backs - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't in FM

In fact, I remember playing a Champions League quarter final in FM09 against Shaktar over and over and over. I would consistently win the first leg comfortably - 5-0, 4-1, 3-0, and then no matter if i went defensive in the second leg, attacking, starting attacking and switching to defensive, starting defensive and switching to attacking, altering team talks, changing formation (i replayed it about 15 times, both legs) - the match always went to penalties. 15 times out of 15.

Well there it goes, for those who say the game is inconsistent and random...

OP, you put five at the back - what else did you do?

Also, I think that to blame SI and the game on one example from one game - is pretty harsh. If it happened constantly, then sure, there would be a worry but truth is that it doesn't happen all that often.

As for tactics, when it got to 5-3 I changed to 5-4-1 and yet their 2 strikers completely outplayed my back 5.

Did you only change formation? Where were the arrows for your back five pointing? Did you use opp instructions and show the danger men on to weaker foot etc? Did you put your time wasting up? Going from 5-0 to 5-3 away from home with 45 minutes is easily possible. 5-5 is extreme but it is a hard game and you need to constantly making sure your tactics are right.

Well, not quite what you want, but in 1976, Bayern beat Bochum 5-6 after going 4-0 down after 53 minutes (then it went 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, 4-4, 4-5, 5-5, 5-6). In 1952, the USSR were 5-1 up against Yugoslavia and the final score was 5-5. In 1966, Portugal were 3-0 down against North Korea before winning 5-3. Over two legs, you might remember Deportivo 4-0 Milan (5-4 agg), but that's just one of the less interesting results.

So no, it's not impossible.

I'm sure there was a Welsh match this season where the away team were up 5-1 with 30 minutes to go, and the home team ended up winning 6-5. I think it was Porthmadog vs Carnefon or something like that.

Shouldn't have gone attacking or defensive in the second leg tbh. Should have gone counter-attacking. IMO it's a big mistake to adopt a purely defensive strategy when you're facing an attack - far better to try to counter attack - break up the play, drop two players into holding midfield roles, and set your wingers to act as outlets for when your team get the ball, etc, etc.

Did you not notice that I said I had tried almost everything in those games?

Counter attacking is the first thing i try when I have a lead in a 2 leg competition.

i remember on football manager 8.0 i was 4-1 at half time up against arsenal at the emirates playing as everton team talk was pleased they score a goal and then tim cahill scored making it 5-2 in teh 60th minute

finished 5-6 my face was just blank i had wtf all over it

Check your teamtalks feedback for that game.

If more than 2-0 up by 1/2 time, say "pleased" as general, but "none" on players below 7 rating and "you have faith" on players who scored, that way no AI in the world could make a comeback.

Of course you can blame the guys tactics to some extent, but SI seriously need to look at team talks as well.

In its current state, I sometimes feel that I'm better off going in 1-0 down than 2-0 up!

At 1-0 down I give the lads a rollicking and they play like gods in the second half, at 2-0 up, if you dare to say pleased, they get their cigars out and stand around and watch the other team comeback to win

this is very often the case! sometimes i feel my team talks is more important than having a class team.

I think you're just the victim of a very rare sporting occurence. If you play that file for 10 seasons, you will probably be able to look back and see 2 or 3 of them. It's just really bad luck. Maybe the game can't take into account realistic drops in confidence, but that's probably always likely to be the case with computer games.

There's only one real life. There are thousands of saved football manager worlds. If people didn't come to a forum like this with examples of freak scorelines i'd be more worried.

And for all this talk of the comeback it boils down to someone giving away a penalty in injury time, otherwise you would of won OP.

There's only one real life. There are thousands of saved football manager worlds. If people didn't come to a forum like this with examples of freak scorelines i'd be more worried.

And for all this talk of the comeback it boils down to someone giving away a penalty in injury time, otherwise you would of won OP.

Exactly. Maybe in real life you have to "you have to go back to 1952 to find an example shows that this happens once every blue moon", but give that there are tens of thousands of FM players out there, who between them have probably played millions of seasons, these things will inevitably come up for someone, even if the chances of it occuring are, say, 1 in 10 million per match.

this is very often the case! sometimes i feel my team talks is more important than having a class team.

I agree.

Team talks do indeed seem to be the main problem here. Since I started saying nothing at half time when the team is 2-0/3-0 up I have yet to see the opposition stage a comeback.

In my opinion this is a significant flaw in the game due to there being insufficient information given by the game on which to base a half time team talk and players reacting too negatively when it is not the specific talk they want to hear. It's not the fact they are 3-0 up that causes them to start playing crap - it's the team talk! Why should players stop performing just because you told them you were pleased with their 1st half performance? and why should players stop performing because you tell them not to let their performance drop? which of course guarantees that some of them WILL let their performance drop.

Anyway, when in this situation, saying nothing is invariably the best option.

I laughed at some people try to defend SI, I want to ask how can you defend the 3 30 yrd long shots in a half? How can you defend a long and seem impossible fk? When I play away AI always score some weird goals, I dont think any tactics can stop these stupid long screamers. It happens constantly to me especially big teams. My tactic is to put pressure in midfield, and AI are not supposed to get the space to shoot long shots, yet they can in away games.

Check your teamtalks feedback for that game.

If more than 2-0 up by 1/2 time, say "pleased" as general, but "none" on players below 7 rating and "you have faith" on players who scored, that way no AI in the world could make a comeback.

...but it doesn't make any sense to do that.

And has been stated multiple times... there is only one real life.

Theres countless Millions of leagues being simulated in FM with even more games per league.

The fact that theres less than 10 people here screaming about the Ai making a come back should tell you that the game doesnt have it in for you.

Not to mention that i have yet to see someone ever actually explain why they think SI would program the AI to mess with them on purpose...

what benefit would it be for SI to make the AI tear you a new ring?

None.

Take the result on the chin and move on.

I think it's hilarious when someone says "I scored four goals in the first half, how did the other team come back to tie or win?"

Well if you scored four goals in the first half, why would anyone expect that four goals in a half wasn't conceivable for the other team?

I laughed at some people try to defend SI, I want to ask how can you defend the 3 30 yrd long shots in a half? How can you defend a long and seem impossible fk? When I play away AI always score some weird goals, I dont think any tactics can stop these stupid long screamers. It happens constantly to me especially big teams. My tactic is to put pressure in midfield, and AI are not supposed to get the space to shoot long shots, yet they can in away games.

So according to you the AI shouldn't be allowed to score goals from distance when you play away from home because your tactic puts pressure on them. Hate to burst that bubble but the AI will do it and also your team will do it I know I've had players score 30 yd screamers and to be honest the tactic I am using for my AC Milan team doesn't really get screamers scored against it although that could just be the fact that the players in the team are all world class. Also about you saying about people defending SI well we are going to do that as FM is a realistic management Sim and freak scorelines like the OP's do happen in real life. Also we will defend the fact that SI put a hell of a lot of time into a game and then when bugs are found in the demo have the balls to say okay and release a patch on launch day. The ME is random TBH with it's results etc. but I suppose people wouldn't be happy if they couldn't complain about a game.

Did you not notice that I said I had tried almost everything in those games?

Counter attacking is the first thing i try when I have a lead in a 2 leg competition.

No I didn't. Because you didn't say that. You made mention of playing attacking and playing defensive, but no mention of counter attacking, so excuse me if I'm a little sceptical.