FM difficulty...

[rdbayly]

19 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

No, it was the actual intention. We have stated this from the start.

Ah - I just spotted a typo in my previous post. It should have said I'm in no doubt it was the intention! 

[priority76]

40 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

The pre-sets in their BETA format are demonstrably plug, play and win.

Yeah I would agree with this.  In my first season with Dortmund I used the preset gegenpress and easily won the league (though far from dominated all competitions and lost a few games I should have won).  Second season I'm trying my own tactic which still uses counter press, high line of engagement and extremely urgent pressing (so still quite gegenpress) and I'm fifth in the league, knocked out of champions league in the group stage and the pressure is starting to mount on my position.  I must add that I am totally tactically inept and therefore make no claim that the tactic is sound and balanced. So if you want more of a challenge stay away from the pre-sets, certainly the gegenpress one.

[Matej]

On 23/10/2018 at 12:04, BnadnerB said:

Hello all,

I’m seeing many people playing FM19 (including myself) coasting to wins as top teams, I’ve seen many close to 100 point seasons already from users playing as Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal...

Now the general consensus is that, ‘yeah of course the games easy if you use those teams’, well this shouldn’t be the case. Trebles should be one of the rarest achievements ever, but it seems common place in user controlled teams. 

I feel this is geared towards LLM players as they can make it through the leagues and finally challenge for major trophies, I feel like this should be near impossible if we want FM to be a proper realistic game.

You should be able to use top 3/4 teams and win the odd trophy, maybe a season like United’s 1999 treble every once in a blue moon, if you are a mid-low table Prem team then the edges of the Top 6 should be a dream come true, LLM managers should settle for promotions and then have to move clubs if they want to make their way up the leagues just like real life!

I know people moan as soon as their tactics don’t ‘work’ as they used to, but the game has to be more random and harder to beat, I remember when Chelsea signed Ballack and Shevchenko on the back of two league titles and I thought they’d be unstoppable, in FM you’d have won three trebles in a row, however Mourinho ended up getting sacked and it took Chelsea another 5 years to finally win the Champions League.

Making these changes for affect LLM players for sure, but winning the Prem with Gateshead within 20 years is a joke anyway, the top level of the game needs to be more evenly distributed and possibly even more random.

Hi m8, you can find my and many other similiar posts to yours, 12,14 years ago. So we all must stop asking SI to make harder game, its just waste of time. What we can do, is ask SI to make codes of AI and match engine more user friendly. Then ask some mods to make better AI in workshops. Its the only solution. 

[ravenation]

5 minutes ago, Matej said:

Hi m8, you can find my and many other similiar posts to yours, 12,14 years ago. So we all must stop asking SI to make harder game, its just waste of time. What we can do, is ask SI to make codes of AI and match engine more user friendly. Then ask some mods to make better AI in workshops. Its the only solution. 

I am also winning and winning in lower league.

SI want to make the most realistic manager simulation game. Then of course we have to ask them to improve the game where realism is not correct. 

Otherwise they have to change their objective with the game.

[HUNT3R]

7 hours ago, Matej said:

Hi m8, you can find my and many other similiar posts to yours, 12,14 years ago. So we all must stop asking SI to make harder game, its just waste of time. What we can do, is ask SI to make codes of AI and match engine more user friendly. Then ask some mods to make better AI in workshops. Its the only solution. 

That's not a solution at all. There's no benefit to SI to do something like that. In fact, they'll lose out, rather than benefit.

Also, making it user-friendly might take years of work as we don't know how "unfriendly" it is right now, so it's really not a practical idea.

[Svenc]

I'd very much promote the idea of SI actually providing a "Plug&play&win preset" if in turn that would mean they would be less hesistant about the feedback they receive as of their AI (which must be there, in numbers -- considering who's around these boards, modding, taking a part in testing, all in all). Not gonna happen naturally, as any such has always relied on game flaws ever since CM Zero. Game flaws aren't features. They affect everyone, directly and indirectly. I also wonder though how own, personal achievements would feel, community-wide, if you knew you had done something comparably "rare" and "special". Not impossibly rare, but reasonably "special". Like back on Diablo finding a rare item, which is recoginzed community-wide as something unique. On FM it's gotten to the point that achievements and titles are everywhere you look (or just a download-and-press-continue away) -- which in turn makes the community come up with artificial challenges, such as winning titles on any contentint in the world with your hands tight behind your back. Maybe the smaller things would be appreciated a lot more, such as managing to sign that wonderkid against a few serious odds -- let alone winning that game over that fierce rival (which may not mean much in that rotten season, but hey it may be something!) It's hard to tell, as that situation as of FM naturally doesn't come to pass. Never has much. For that reason I've stopped following career updates /story sections ages ago too. Whilst there is a natural bias at work in how "failed saves" don't tend to be shared much -- it's like watching porn over gripping relationship drama. No matter how much windows dressing is applied in terms of story scripting and unique narratives: You just know right from the start that unless that guy isn't going to pull out early, there's only going to be one outcome eventually.

As of the Gegenpress: shouldn't the perceived OP'd ness of the Gegenpressing presets (at least under certain conditions,/formations) actually show some significantly in the interception analysis? From what I've seen with players claiming such thus far, it doesn't. The first thing you'd watch for is a) added interceptions in general and b) added interceptions high up the pitch. That's like part of the entire purpose, forcing added interceptions. However, not showing much from what I have seen. The (one sided) matches against I've seen, they seem to come about because of what looks the AI completely standing off, pulling deep, and trying to soak it all up. The other match stats support this too: how easy the gegenpressing team has it to keep the ball (far inferios possession and pass completion rates -- which means they areN't even forced to press much). Far superior shot counts (which makes you question if the opposing team at all pushes much forward). Etc. That was the first observation from the SI Twitch streams too.

[pats]

It's really difficult to please the whole userbase in a simulation like FM. Someone will be unhappy no matter how much balanced it is. One solution I can suggest is to have configurable AI settings at the start of a new save like most simulation and grand strategy games have. Default settings can be the SI's preferred realistic settings, which user can adjust from a slider like interface. For example e.g. Matchday Injuries setting can have 3 options - 'Less', 'Realistic' and 'More'. SI only needs to balance the game for the middle option ('Realistic'). You want less injuries, set it to 'Less', you want more injuries than the default setting, set it to 'More'. Similarly more adjustable categories can be:

- Training injuries 

- Matchday injuries

- AI transfers ('Conservative', 'Realistic', 'Aggressive')

- AI tactical adaptability ('Slow', 'Realistic', 'Fast')

- Scouting accuracy ('More accurate', 'Realistic', 'Less accurate')

- Staff limitation

- Transfer budget limitation

- AI takeover ('Less takeoves', 'Realistic', 'More takeovers')

etc....

I have more ideas and this post probably should be in the feature request forum but I'm in a hurry at the moment.

 

 

[Red Horizon]

I'm playing as FC United (predicted to finish bottom of the conference north) with Sunday league experience and I'm doing very well which I don't normally do.........

[BigTed88]

I'm really keen to pull the trigger as all the new features look great but to the people who believe it maybe easier are you using the pre made tactic's or your own?

Surely if the pre made gegenpress is as op as I read, is this not the same for the AI? Are AI teams who are using that tactic overachieving also? 

[craiigman]

15 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

So I started a Bournemouth save as the Utd one was way too easy. 

I'm doing my best not to score from crosses which are OP - assist location shown below (take out set pieces I just have 5 assists from the flanks) 

I'm not gegenpressing - as shown by my possession stats (42%) 

It's a custom 442 again - no preset 

It's Feb - Just won the carabao cup vs utd, i'm 7th in the league (despite long term injuries to several key players) 

League performance may not be unrealistic but that by putting a huge disadvantage on myself by not pressing or using wingplay! And like others with small clubs ive won the cup. 

What's your tactical setup with them? Interested as I've been attempting no cross goals tactics and I'm lucky to score at all lol

[pats]

I have started using inverted wing-backs to stop this crossing madness.

[pembehasan]

I'm sure FM 19 will be really punishing for newbies but game is very easy for people like me. I'm playing since CM3, loved FM19 but it's easy, you cannot deny it. FM19 is great game with a lot of new features but I don't want to win all trophies, find all wonderkids with easy scout team. I want to lose, relegate from league, sacked. I know I can do that with very low tier teams but what about mid-tier teams? For example, Wolves at 10th on EPL right now but in FM19 you can make them champion in maximum 3-4 years. But in reality you know that won't happen

[forameuss]

10 minutes ago, pembehasan said:

I'm sure FM 19 will be really punishing for newbies but game is very easy for people like me. I'm playing since CM3, loved FM19 but it's easy, you cannot deny it. FM19 is great game with a lot of new features but I don't want to win all trophies, find all wonderkids with easy scout team. I want to lose, relegate from league, sacked. I know I can do that with very low tier teams but what about mid-tier teams? For example, Wolves at 10th on EPL right now but in FM19 you can make them champion in maximum 3-4 years. But in reality you know that won't happen

If we were blocking anything that "in reality wouldn't happen" then there wouldn't be a lot left to do in FM.  

[pembehasan]

47 minutes ago, forameuss said:

If we were blocking anything that "in reality wouldn't happen" then there wouldn't be a lot left to do in FM.  

I agree with that but I also defend there should be limits. FM should be realistic simulation game eventually. All I want is more challenger AI.

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, pembehasan said:

I agree with that but I also defend there should be limits. FM should be realistic simulation game eventually. All I want is more challenger AI.

The day you put limits on what people can achieve is the day the game dies.  If you expect it to be truly realistic - which, by the way, is incredibly hard to extrapolate, how many people thought Leicester would win the league before they did - then you'll be continually disappointed.  It's always been about creating a balance, making it as realistic as possible while also making it fun.  They are incredibly close to the line on this point, and I don't think it would take too much for them to push it way out of the fun zone.  All well and good for the minority of people who would like it to go that way, but not so great for the bottom line when most people would stop playing.

[westy8chimp]

2 hours ago, craiigman said:

What's your tactical setup with them? Interested as I've been attempting no cross goals tactics and I'm lucky to score at all lol

Ive drawn a fair few blanks but its a lot more rewarding when it works than cross fest or really high pressing forcing goals in.

I wont give all the details as i plan on doing a little thread on it in tactics or career... But basically a flat 442, deep and direct

[westy8chimp]

1 minute ago, forameuss said:

The day you put limits on what people can achieve is the day the game dies.  If you expect it to be truly realistic - which, by the way, is incredibly hard to extrapolate, how many people thought Leicester would win the league before they did - then you'll be continually disappointed.  It's always been about creating a balance, making it as realistic as possible while also making it fun.  They are incredibly close to the line on this point, and I don't think it would take too much for them to push it way out of the fun zone.  All well and good for the minority of people who would like it to go that way, but not so great for the bottom line when most people would stop playing.

But doing a leicester should be rare... Not all but guarenteed in a short period of time. 

[Hobbi123]

If you use the presets and then complain that the game is too easy, then I would suggest trying to create a tactic from scratch. 

With Leeds I was flying at the top of the league using Bielsa style tika taka preset, however when changing to my own tactics the game seems much harder. 

 

[forameuss]

9 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

But doing a leicester should be rare... Not all but guarenteed in a short period of time. 

In some people's eyes, absolutely.  But it's not really a big selling point for the game if you're told that that thing you used to enjoy doing is now going to be as rare as it is in real life.

Again, it's a delicate balancing act.  They're not going to be able to please everyone.

[westy8chimp]

4 minutes ago, forameuss said:

In some people's eyes, absolutely.  But it's not really a big selling point for the game if you're told that that thing you used to enjoy doing is now going to be as rare as it is in real life.

Again, it's a delicate balancing act.  They're not going to be able to please everyone.

Fm has always prided itself on simulation > arcade, realism > 'fun' 

Or certainly its their go to response to some of the more exuberrant feature requests. 

If its going to be dumbed down so that you can expect to win easy... May as well throw in more arcadey elements too

[forameuss]

6 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Fm has always prided itself on simulation > arcade, realism > 'fun' 

Or certainly its their go to response to some of the more exuberrant feature requests. 

Conveniently ignoring the massive area between simulation and arcade.  It's far more the former than the latter, but that doesn't mean they're striving to be a true simulation.  The game can also be fun without being arcade-y, and while sacrificing semblances of realism.  Their focus is likely to have always been, like I already said, to make the game as realistic as possible while still being enjoyable.

But by all means, let's make it a 100% accurate to-scale version of football so a handful of people can enjoy it.  The one version they manage to release before shutting the doors will be thrilling I'm sure.

[Red Horizon]

Just listening to the 5star potential podcast and it's been mentioned on there how easier it is this year, I don't know anyone who is struggling? 

 

This really needs sorting. 

[Mikke]

I won't start complaining about the difficulty (or lack of it in this case) until the game is actually released. There have always been major things to fix in beta versions.

[BnadnerB]

My original point wasn’t just about FM19, its about Football Manager as a whole. Winning a league title should take luck and skill, not just overpowering poor AI.

[enigmatic]

* loses 22 match unbeaten streak - nearly all wins against good sides - to go out in Group Stages of European Championship *

* revises opinion from "easy" to "all too plausible" * 

[Matej]

13 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

That's not a solution at all. There's no benefit to SI to do something like that. In fact, they'll lose out, rather than benefit.

Also, making it user-friendly might take years of work as we don't know how "unfriendly" it is right now, so it's really not a practical idea.

There is no benefit to SI? To allow mods to make better game and make thousands loyal fans happy? Are we talking just about money here? Also, mods usually open eyes for future products. 

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Matej said:

There is no benefit to SI? To allow mods to make better game and make thousands loyal fans happy? Are we talking just about money here? Also, mods usually open eyes for future products. 

There's no benefit, for very very obvious reasons.

[Matej]

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

There's no benefit, for very very obvious reasons.

Please tell me, i cant see them. Did you played for example Xcom 2 ? They have great mod support. And its one of the best selling games on pc. So what are obvious reasons? 

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Matej said:

Please tell me, i cant see them. Did you played for example Xcom 2 ? They have great mod support. And its one of the best selling games on pc. So what are obvious reasons? 

Xcom isn't FM. There is ZERO benefit, for obvious reasons.

[RandomGuy.]

7 hours ago, BusbyFergieJose said:

Just listening to the 5star potential podcast and it's been mentioned on there how easier it is this year, I don't know anyone who is struggling? 

 

This really needs sorting. 

Me, had a version for  virtually the past decade. 

Every save I've had has been pretty much standard for the club, ironically, started a Sunderland save with the intention of testing the "OP faultless Gegenpress" tactic. Currently 20th in League One..

[Smac]

On 29/10/2018 at 16:50, Matej said:

Hi m8, you can find my and many other similiar posts to yours, 12,14 years ago. So we all must stop asking SI to make harder game, its just waste of time. What we can do, is ask SI to make codes of AI and match engine more user friendly. Then ask some mods to make better AI in workshops. Its the only solution. 

Yes we did talk about that a long time ago and I agree that it's ultimately the right solution. There's no harm in raising it as a suggestion every year though I don't think SI have any intention of going down this route for some time. Eventually though they'll rewrite the game engine from scratch one would think and then there is a decent chance there would be some AI modularity to it as that would help development either way (for testing if nothing else). I think the honest truth of the matter is that the product design philosophy doesn't respect the player as a strategist but is designed for armchair emperors who want to feel courageous from a soft cushy couch. No offense to anyone meant. It's a product to feel like a managerial genius, not to in any way become one (or design AI to become one). Some day...

[iAlwaysWin]

Just because yous rubber band the game allowing the AI to pull nasty games like this when they score pretty much every chance they get on target dosent make the game hard or fun, just makes it unrealistic as hell, everything about this match is pathetic, won the game on pens btw.

 

 

[iAlwaysWin]

Oh and the game went this way simply cause i wanted to rest a couple of players for man city in the c.l

[Smac]

17 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

That's not a solution at all. There's no benefit to SI to do something like that. In fact, they'll lose out, rather than benefit.

Also, making it user-friendly might take years of work as we don't know how "unfriendly" it is right now, so it's really not a practical idea.

I don't understand what you're alluding to HUNT3R. Is there some secret topic here we're not supposed to touch upon or are you against an idea you don't seem to be able to fairly restate for some other reason? (confused).

The basic idea Matej is alluding to is to make aspects of the AI decision making available to modding/plugins. This would allow ambitious fans to code their own AI decision matrices (or heck, possibly even more robust AI) and then share these with fans of the game. Players could then brag: "Oh hey I won the Champions League on the HUNT3R challenge mode. Man that AI is ruthless and I nearly went bankrupt", as one example.

It would definitely burden SI to create the plugins initially but the argument here is that it would make the game far more robust in the long haul. One only needs to look at other games that have done extremely well in large part to their modding community to see this is generally a net positive and could take a game from "Almost a strategy game" to "Taken seriously".

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Just because yous rubber band the game allowing the AI to pull nasty games like this when they score pretty much every chance they get on target dosent make the game hard or fun, just makes it unrealistic as hell, everything about this match is pathetic, won the game on pens btw.

Never fails to amuse when players evidently tearing the AI a new one (generally) left right and centre drop the odd point due to being exposed how their only idea of match mangement boils down to "having more shots and possession so must win duh!".  Oft they have a point though, but it's not what it seems. And I've watched this kinda matches since day zero.

Actually, I think the general idea that these sort of matches tend to be caused by rubber banding may be actually one of the reasons of SI being cautious as to how much they improve their AI... and I'm talking serious. This is an actual concern in games development to various extents. Me winning a plenty= I'm effing brilliant as a manger. Me losing=unfair game. It's not that I lose, I hear ya! It's how you do. The root cause is and has always been how AI manages matches vs. how human players do en masse either way. Similar to Burnley's manager, AI don't give a **** about possession and shots. They only care about the goals, for a start. That's such an inherently edge over so many FM'ers, even though it only tends to show in the odd curious match or two. Pity.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/116071/Analysis_Game_AI__Our_Cheatin_Hearts.php

 

edit: That was a bit strongly put. But granted, this gets me every time. It couldn't be just a marking bug triggered by any instruction, or simply a horrible match engine, or a just one of these games. No, that's not got to do. It's the game rubberbanding so that my evidently brilliance doesn't run rings around the game.

[iAlwaysWin]

Quote

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/116071/Analysis_Game_AI__Our_Cheatin_Hearts.php

actually quite a good read btw, thanks.

[y0lo]

Just won Eredivise and Europa League with AZ in first season. Did not lose a game in the league. I would consider myself a good player with a lot of experience.

I understand also people are struggling and it is not easy for everyone.

So i think it is a good idea for SI to create 2 or 3 difficulty settings.

Some ways to improve AI

Most AI do not rotate well enough. I think a large part of winning can come from having a much fitter team. So either you decrease the effect matches have on condition or make AI use smart rotation (e.g. field a weakened side before a bigger game in a few days. Use opponent reputation variable). Smarter subs too: perhaps you want a few key players in before the big game, but allow the AI to sub them off after 45/60 minutes to save condition. Also do not allow AI to always fill a completely weakened side: leave some first team players in.

Get AI managers to time waste more to close out victories, sometimes bring on more defensive players etc. Same for when losing.

Squad building is improving a bit, but still could be better. Ajax were completely drained in my game and have bought no one. I think it should be harder for teams to sell all their best players in one season unless they are in financial difficulty. Also - young players and joining the biggest teams... depending on their CURRENT ABLITY (and maybe professionalism) you can SOME players not interested/REJECT teams with higher reputation if they believe "I would be better off staying at my club for development" OR "I would be better off joining this lower reptuation side in order to further my development" or clubs that place them as 'Hot Prospect' over 'Rotation' or 'First Team'. I also think the hidden personality attribute Loyalty needs to be buffed and have stronger effect so that 'Reputation' does not weigh so heavily.

I think in real life managers are more flexible than made out in game. They often change formation to suit the players they have. Every version there are many managers who have different favoured formations to other versions. So it would also help AI squad building to be more open minded with the formations they use. As you see with many managers including Pep - their footall style evolves and changes.

To help adjustments to shape you can allow faster training of players in positions that are similar and based on stats:

e.g. allow a left winger with good tackling, marking, positioning to be trained faster as a left wing back or left back. Allow a left winger to be trained more easily as a right winger.

All players should be easy or hard to train in new positions based on i) versatility stat (as used) and ii) calculate 'role suitability' attributes for different positions - e.g. a right back with highly suitable 'deep lying play maker' or 'defensive midfielder' ROLE attributes can be MUCH more easily trained as central midfielder (Lahm/Kimmich/Fabinho) with the variable of versatility making this easier. This means versatility should probably be buffed (e.g. 10 versatility can be weighted as 14/15 in its current terms) and the COST of a new position to CA should be lower. Likewise, allow players to retain their core natural positions, but lose attribute points in additional positions if they are never played + trained in that position.

[HUNT3R]

6 hours ago, Smac said:

I don't understand what you're alluding to HUNT3R. Is there some secret topic here we're not supposed to touch upon or are you against an idea you don't seem to be able to fairly restate for some other reason? (confused).

The basic idea Matej is alluding to is to make aspects of the AI decision making available to modding/plugins. This would allow ambitious fans to code their own AI decision matrices (or heck, possibly even more robust AI) and then share these with fans of the game. Players could then brag: "Oh hey I won the Champions League on the HUNT3R challenge mode. Man that AI is ruthless and I nearly went bankrupt", as one example.

It would definitely burden SI to create the plugins initially but the argument here is that it would make the game far more robust in the long haul. One only needs to look at other games that have done extremely well in large part to their modding community to see this is generally a net positive and could take a game from "Almost a strategy game" to "Taken seriously".

There isn't a single thing about it that's beneficial for SI.

- They have to create this user friendly interface, which if possible, is a lot of work.

- Jonny Nobrains creates a crappy ME version and posts all over YouTube about how bad FM is.

- It helps SI if everyone is on the same ME because we get to help them with bug reports.

This is already a game that gets "taken seriously" and it would be a serious backwards step to do what is suggested.

[Viking]

Well, I definitley think the game is harder after the latest update. I have lost every single match since I downloaded it.

(Which is fine, it was not matches I should be able to win with the players I have)

[RandomGuy.]

9 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Just because yous rubber band the game allowing the AI to pull nasty games like this when they score pretty much every chance they get on target dosent make the game hard or fun, just makes it unrealistic as hell, everything about this match is pathetic, won the game on pens btw.

 

 

1-0 in clear cut chances.

Sounds quite an even game...

[HUNT3R]

9 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Just because yous rubber band the game allowing the AI to pull nasty games like this

There's no rubber banding in the game at all. The ME can't distinguish between human and AI and the AI can only access the same tactical tools that we can.

[Mitja]

9 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Just because yous rubber band the game allowing the AI to pull nasty games like this when they score pretty much every chance they get on target dosent make the game hard or fun, just makes it unrealistic as hell, everything about this match is pathetic, won the game on pens btw.

 

 

post to the bug forum.

[iAlwaysWin]

16 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

There's no rubber banding in the game at all. The ME can't distinguish between human and AI and the AI can only access the same tactical tools that we can.

you dont code the game , your a moderatr on this forum, you dont know what happens under the hood, other than what your told.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, Mitja said:

post to the bug forum.

There's no indication of it being a bug though.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, iAlwaysWin said:

you dont code the game , your a moderatr on this forum, you dont know what happens under the hoood, other than what your told

SI will tell you the same thing, because that is how it is. 

[pats]

16 minutes ago, Mitja said:

post to the bug forum.

I don't see anything wrong with it. What kind of bug did you notice?

[iAlwaysWin]

6 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

SI will tell you the same thing, because that is how it is. 

i know that, am not suggesting the ai is doing something i cant, there was nothing about that match for me that was realistic or enjoyble, even if i was newcastle.

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, iAlwaysWin said:

i know that, am not suggesting the ai is doing something i cant, there was nothing about that match for me that was realistic or enjoyble, even if i was newcastle.

Raging is plenty cool. Sometimes, **** happens. Sometimes, the goals conceded may be even off bugs. If you have such regularly on FM generally in some form: Stop watching "garbage" such as MOTD right now and start following wider football media and you may be getting some more out of it (almost guaranteed). I've equally lost count on how players claim to have "superior football knowledge" due to watching such programs religiously. Unfortunately, they've been broadcasting rubbish into households for decades. To be fair, they're not there to primarily "educate" -- but to "excite" and "entertain." The broadcasters meanwhile pay loads of money upfront to the TV right holders, so that those programs better deliver on that front. That's not a wide spread conspiracy -- it's just plain business.

 

Unfortunately ALL of FM's in-game media is basically trying hard to mimic MOTD. Shots and possession for the win. All of this still applies 100%, in particular on the simplistic level of stats FM has on offer, which doesn't even show how much men are still behind the ball on interceptions, or anything. This still totally nails the issues players have, in particular considering that the AI is set up in a completely different way altogether.  In other words, such players tend to be a bit of Germany at the World Cup, whilst the AI oft tends to act as those successfully spoil sports they faced all through the group stages, trailing an opposition lead in all of them. At least for the odd match or two (when it may be more oftenly with "intelligent" AI that actually plugs the zones of the pitch attacked specifically, rather than generally just going into generic FM AI "park the bus" mode once it has the result it tries to protect at all cost).

"Rubber banding" or no -- I've never met a single player who actually backed up his claims with something that held up the slightest. Conversely, I've never met a player I consider to have a decent understanding of the game who argued it was a thing. Evidently, going with rubber banding theories stops players from learning how the game works straight off the bat either way. Which is something SI may try hard to avoid. At which point we're back to that Gamasutra article....... Rather than considering how "intelligent" AI may manage matches, they should rather improve their feedback though. It makes zero sense for match reports to argue that teams were lucky to lose simply because they had more "shots" on some spreadsheet after the final whistle is blown. In football in which matches as such are actually being MANAGED, and in-game, in particular.

Quote

I don't think a pure stats analysis is that helpful. The analysis screens (heatmap, passing, interceptions) and watching the match are all far more useful than the stats. People who only focus on stats tend to drift towards tactical styles that generate a lot of possession and shots, but aren't very efficient.

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, iAlwaysWin said:

i know that, am not suggesting the ai is doing something i cant, there was nothing about that match for me that was realistic or enjoyble, even if i was newcastle.

I'm sure it wasn't enjoyable, but you did suggest it as that is what rubber banding is, something artificial to increase AI efficiency etc. and as I said, this doesn't happen.

Context is important here too. What were the times of the goals scored?

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, iAlwaysWin said:

you dont code the game , your a moderatr on this forum, you dont know what happens under the hood, other than what your told.

The person that does have access to the people that code the game but doesn't code the game, versus...you.

Hmm...I'm in a quandary on who to believe here.