FM difficulty...

[HUNT3R]

@iAlwaysWin

https://steamcommunity.com/app/231670/discussions/0/540734792800863181/

Quote

There is no 'rubber banding' within the ME. 

Also bear in mind the ME is incredibly difficult to balance - so when we're adding things (for example something as complex as collision detection), it can have a massive bearing on the game. A poster on the SI forums summed it up rather well:

If SI wanted to tweak one area, they'd need to consider the impact it has on all the other elements.

As an example, I've seen a couple of comments that strikers don't score enough goals still (I don't actually agree with that).
How would SI go about "fixing" that issue, if it were true?

Perhaps they'd try to get players to shoot earlier / later / harder / softer / higher / lower etc. etc.

If they then did that, what would the impact be on the number of goals scored?
On the ratings of the goal keepers?
On the ratings of the defenders / defensive midfielders who are now contributing to conceding more goals?
On the ratings of the strikers that are now scoring more?
Would defensive behaviour need to be tightened to balance this?
Would shot counts increase, and result in Match Stats that are out of kilter with real life?
Would shot counts drop, and result in conversion rates which are out of kilter with real life?

That's just one tweak for one issue. Some people are very happy with the changes made for 14.3.0, some people aren't. If you have specific issues with the match engine, as always we ask you to please take the time to raise them on our match engines bugs forum with examples - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/365-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

Thanks.

 

 

https://community.sigames.com/topic/404130-si-needs-to-fix-the-mid-season-collapse/

Quote

 

Bear in mind no-one has seen any of the matches in any detail, nor their tactical setup or squad other than the user. What I advised was generalised advice for if a team falls off the rails mid-season. In the user's example they may have had injuries to key players, players sent off in key moments of have gone completely gung-ho when going a goal or two down. 

Why is teams going defensive like a rubber band? For every game you have a scouting report of the opposition which includes things like their last used tactic, their league position, player strengths etc. With the analysis tools you can look into the tiniest detail to get an idea of how they're going to play. From what you're saying it's almost as if you suggest if a user has a good tactic everything should click and just work from that point on?  

You're saying the game shouldn't be scripted in any way (and good news - it isn't) but then you go on to say it SHOULD be scripted to only produce close results when teams go defensive? And you're not even taking into account the strength of the opposition in the OP example. To bring it closer to home,  if you started the season with a run against Swansea, Sunderland, Hull, WBA, Crystal Palace, Watford and Stoke and were 6-1-0, then played Stoke, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, West Ham and Everton it wouldn't be completely unrealistic if you lost a few and conceded a few more would it? 

Not saying all those teams are amazing, but Dallas who helped start the losing run are a hell of a lot better than Chicago or Columbus. 

 

 

There are probably more replies from SI regarding this, but there you go.

 

[Svenc]

15 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

There are probably more replies from SI regarding this, but there you go.

 

Not sure how big PaulC's grip is as of the AI/ME, but he previoiusly would pretty much slag it off as "rubbish".

Given that him and his brother care deeply about the issue at hand, that may appear a bit "short-fused", but he can't change too that similar to that Gamasutra article, for any of his players, perception is reality. The starter of the this thread btw. exemplifies the issues FM'ers tend to have all in one -- take a look at some of his other threads, like classics such as "If only more results matched the stats". (I had the fortune of meeting him on another place, where he uploaded some of its matches -- and all he was told throughout the years was completely correct).

[HUNT3R]

To be fair to Paul, that was Garry. He's not like that normally.

[tajj7]

As I near completion of my 2nd season I don't feel it's any harder or easier than last years game. 

[enigmatic]

I find it reassuring that one of the forum's more prolific Super Tactic creators has dropped most of his tactics after the update due to them no longer consistently overperforming. 

(Looking at what's left, it suggests the classic FM17 strikerless narrow three formation is still overpowered, but there's a decent argument that fixing an unusual but basically plausible formation the AI never uses shouldn't be SI's priority in creating a balanced match engine)

[Ji-Sung Park]

18 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I find it reassuring that one of the forum's more prolific Super Tactic creators has dropped most of his tactics after the update due to them no longer consistently overperforming. 

If history has taught us anything it is that super tactics will always be there. There will always be a way.

A completely different issue is why people use them… I'm not one to judge though.

[ravenation]

6 hours ago, enigmatic said:

I find it reassuring that one of the forum's more prolific Super Tactic creators has dropped most of his tactics after the update due to them no longer consistently overperforming. 

(Looking at what's left, it suggests the classic FM17 strikerless narrow three formation is still overpowered, but there's a decent argument that fixing an unusual but basically plausible formation the AI never uses shouldn't be SI's priority in creating a balanced match engine)

Only had time to play 2 months - but it seems like my tactic is not totally dominant anymore. I hope it will continue

[Guest]

On 30/10/2018 at 09:00, pembehasan said:

I'm sure FM 19 will be really punishing for newbies but game is very easy for people like me. I'm playing since CM3, loved FM19 but it's easy, you cannot deny it. FM19 is great game with a lot of new features but I don't want to win all trophies, find all wonderkids with easy scout team. I want to lose, relegate from league, sacked. I know I can do that with very low tier teams but what about mid-tier teams? For example, Wolves at 10th on EPL right now but in FM19 you can make them champion in maximum 3-4 years. But in reality you know that won't happen

7

 

Why are you bothering to play it then? Your argument for Wolves being made champions in 3/4 years as opposed to real life goes against everything this game is, you might as well go in holiday mode, wait for a man city style take over, spend a billion in a few seasons and then challenge? 

If you spend the time getting to know everything that gives you the advantage then, of course, the game becomes easy - the game is made for the masses, not the elite few who have hundreds of hours to pour it, or do you want it made so punishingly difficult that only the "elite" can play it? I find it easy, but I don't want that, I want it to be accessible and enjoyable to as many people as possible. 

If you want to make it more difficult, then set your own rules to make it harder - only sign players from Norway and can only select players under the age of 23...etc... plenty of things you can do yourself - one of the most fun games I had was a 5 season challenge to win the champions league with Aston Villa using only German players

Difficulty is subjective, plenty will find this hard, plenty will want PnP tactics, plenty will come and whine without actually looking at themselves for a solution (whaaa why can't I use exploits, its in the game for a reason, whaaa, its not hard enough) I'm not aiming that at you btw pemb, but it's all over these forums in general and I feel a little common sense and self-reflection is required. 

[pembehasan]

8 minutes ago, Dal81 said:

 

Why are you bothering to play it then? Your argument for Wolves being made champions in 3/4 years as opposed to real life goes against everything this game is, you might as well go in holiday mode, wait for a man city style take over, spend a billion in a few seasons and then challenge? 

If you spend the time getting to know everything that gives you the advantage then, of course, the game becomes easy - the game is made for the masses, not the elite few who have hundreds of hours to pour it, or do you want it made so punishingly difficult that only the "elite" can play it? I find it easy, but I don't want that, I want it to be accessible and enjoyable to as many people as possible. 

If you want to make it more difficult, then set your own rules to make it harder - only sign players from Norway and can only select players under the age of 23...etc... plenty of things you can do yourself - one of the most fun games I had was a 5 season challenge to win the champions league with Aston Villa using only German players

Difficulty is subjective, plenty will find this hard, plenty will want PnP tactics, plenty will come and whine without actually looking at themselves for a solution (whaaa why can't I use exploits, its in the game for a reason, whaaa, its not hard enough) I'm not aiming that at you btw pemb, but it's all over these forums in general and I feel a little common sense and self-reflection is required. 

Well, this is of course your choice but I think it's against the spirit of the football. I mean team with full of Germans or Norwegians. Don't you think it's looking weird?

Why I'm bothering to play it? Because I like it and even I like it, I can criticize right? I know this game is made for the masses but you know that, the vast majority of community are old CM players. Anyway, I'll use in game editor to make rival teams harder to beat again.

[Matej]

57 minutes ago, pembehasan said:

Well, this is of course your choice but I think it's against the spirit of the football. I mean team with full of Germans or Norwegians. Don't you think it's looking weird?

Why I'm bothering to play it? Because I like it and even I like it, I can criticize right? I know this game is made for the masses but you know that, the vast majority of community are old CM players. Anyway, I'll use in game editor to make rival teams harder to beat again.

 

Hahaha. Yes, its weird, but ok. I remember, think it was FM2015, i spend 2 days of editing AI teams in premier league, to make it harder. 2 days man. And they where harder to beat, but i won next season anyway. 2 things where problem, even if you give AI great teams, 2-3 players for any position, still AI generally dont play at his best. they make weird decisions, dont have many created chances , they sell players and dont get better ones.. Also when you are strong and AI is strong, youll always win a league. After 3-4 seasons if you dont win premier league, you done something terrible wrong. I dont know what, because i always win a league. 

For example, in FM17 i made new club and start the game from England 2nd division. with small stadium and bad players. After 10 seasons, i won 3 Premier League titles in a row ( 8th , 9th and 10th season), 1 Europa league, 1 champ league and 3 FA cups. I still have save game if someone wants i can send. 

If im in only 5% of people who can do that, i would be proud. But i think that if u use normal formation and buy logical great players when you can, 90% FM players can do that. Maybe even more. 

I can bet with SI , that in every FM, i can win Premier league with for example Southampton, in 2-3 seasons. Ill bet 50 000 euros for bet if they want. i can stream, whatever. Even worse, i can do that every time, so if they want to do that with 3 different clubs in a row, ill do it. 

Im not special, AI is intentionally bad , so that we can all brag how good we are. 

They are talking how they working on AI every year. im listening to that since 1992. Yes, i played all versions except FM18. In todays world, where hundreds sites give you tips about wunderkinds, best formations, you need to work much better on AI then they do. I limit myself so i never go on sites that talk about formations and best players in the game, but i guess thats not enough. 

 

What we do better then AI? We bring 10- 15 players if we want, cheap, with great potential, then sell them for big money. When we have good money, we buy great players to give us edge. AI just dont buy enough. They must be much more agresive in buying and selling older players. Also if im buying some great talent, in 99% there is no competition for that talent , from AI clubs. Also big - in AI. 

During the match, dont you find weird that 90% of us have like 10 highlights, and AI just 2-3, almost every game? Why is AI so bad and today SI have big company with lots of people working on match engine. Its not simulation of football, when someone says that he is lying or he is dumb or i am really football God and every season i can win everything with LL club in 6-7 seasons?  No, im not God, i think that 90% of people can do the same.

We need open code of this game to make it better and one day we will have that.  Sorry for my english. 

 

57 minutes ago, pembehasan said:

 

 

 

[Guest]

See, that's another solution - it takes you no time at all and gives you the game YOU want. 

No, I don't think it looks weird and you don't have to install those rules, it was just an example to provide more of a challenge - when you consider that Witsel went to china over juve, Neymar left barca for PSG, Juninho to boro, lombardo to palace and less than 20 years ago man city was a division 2 team and now they have one of the best squads in the world - lots of weird stuff happens. Spirit of football? You mean money? 

Criticism is good if it's constructive. 

[Matej]

On 30/10/2018 at 23:07, Smac said:

Yes we did talk about that a long time ago and I agree that it's ultimately the right solution. There's no harm in raising it as a suggestion every year though I don't think SI have any intention of going down this route for some time. Eventually though they'll rewrite the game engine from scratch one would think and then there is a decent chance there would be some AI modularity to it as that would help development either way (for testing if nothing else). I think the honest truth of the matter is that the product design philosophy doesn't respect the player as a strategist but is designed for armchair emperors who want to feel courageous from a soft cushy couch. No offense to anyone meant. It's a product to feel like a managerial genius, not to in any way become one (or design AI to become one). Some day...

Hi m8, yes, its the same talk in last 10 years or more. I dont get it why they at least dont give us easy options at the start of the new game like : much more aggressive AI buying - selling. more clubs using best formations,  more clubs selling players over 30 and using top potential players, etc.. in 10 years they just talk and doin nothing to give us challenge. Its shame. 

If you give much more aggressive AI as option at the start of the game, like they give for example option for your experience in football, people who find the game to hard, can just skip that option. I dont get it. 

[Smac]

13 minutes ago, Matej said:

 I dont get it why they at least dont give us easy options at the start of the new game like : much more.....

I do understand why they don't bother with that part: The game has enough options for most players that it's a bit of a waste of resources to develop this in house, which is why I like your other idea (and always have): To make these things open to modding so that we could come up with these things on our own as a community. ... And then some super mod comes along and the parent company hires them and everyone wins.

[Smac]

17 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

There isn't a single thing about it that's beneficial for SI.

- They have to create this user friendly interface, which if possible, is a lot of work.

- Jonny Nobrains creates a crappy ME version and posts all over YouTube about how bad FM is.

- It helps SI if everyone is on the same ME because we get to help them with bug reports. 

Well it's o.k. that you've apparently never played a heavily modded game, but your arguments seem outlandishly out of touch for anyone who has. All these issues have been addressed 1000 times over by developers and game communities who ultimately both want the same thing. That you think it's so fragile and unrealistic to attempt is just simply belied by the facts. Yes, there are reasons SI doesn't bother, and it's mostly just that economics for FM are different than many games: For a lot of players this is the only thing they play and they're not likely to be into modding. For a lot of players FM is not a strategy game worth any depth but a simulation to live out one's fantasies. Each year SI print money and that's the end of the story. The incentives to start from scratch or innovate are outweighed by keeping the printing press going year after year. So no, the valid arguments against doing it aren't that it would destroy the reputation of the game or ruin the quality assurance system, or are too difficult to do. The only real argument is that there's little incentive to do it for this particular game with it's particular popularity and audience. You can't argue that it's both an ambitious and serious strategy game and that it isn't worth it to make it moddable. You have to pick one.

[westy8chimp]

Ive played about 5 matches on the new ME... In terms of difficulty, initial impression is that the AI feel better equipped... My results are more closely mirroring expectation.  i should get to play a few hours today so ill see how i feel mid season. 

[Matej]

2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

Ive played about 5 matches on the new ME... In terms of difficulty, initial impression is that the AI feel better equipped... My results are more closely mirroring expectation.  i should get to play a few hours today so ill see how i feel mid season. 

Yes, westy, im glad you think AI is better. But 5 matches are 2 little sample. If you start career and you play for 2-3 seasons, AI is going down and our teams only get better.

[casseius]

Very easy for me also, controlling low - mid team and won 23/24 match with no new players at team, and using only my own amateur tactic what i made in one and a half minute.

[wkdsoul]

I made a skin amendment for Cleon that removes attributes? but leaves pro/con reports and star ratings.... wanna try that  

[Matej]

6 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

I made a skin amendment for Cleon that removes attributes? but leaves pro/con reports and star ratings.... wanna try that  

Do you have something that removes the star ratings? Yes, sure, any other mods? 

[wkdsoul]

12 minutes ago, Matej said:

Do you have something that removes the star ratings? Yes, sure, any other mods? 

star ratings you can just copy over the icons files with something else. (empty circles etc) 

[ravenation]

2 hours ago, Matej said:

Yes, westy, im glad you think AI is better. But 5 matches are 2 little sample. If you start career and you play for 2-3 seasons, AI is going down and our teams only get better.

Has the AI not always had problems with putting together good squad in the long term? Remember taking over teams without left wingers, but with 5 right wingers.

[Matej]

On 01/11/2018 at 17:24, wkdsoul said:

star ratings you can just copy over the icons files with something else. (empty circles etc) 

Where is location of those icon files?  

[wkdsoul]

1 minute ago, Matej said:

Where is location of those icon files?  

graphics/icons/custom/star ratings.

[enigmatic]

On 01/11/2018 at 16:04, wkdsoul said:

I made a skin amendment for Cleon that removes attributes? but leaves pro/con reports and star ratings.... wanna try that  

I assume that turning attributes into something that looks like a pro/con report (i.e. most attributes hidden but text notes where attribute > threshold) is still beyond the level of customisation possible using the skinning?

Just knowing a player was [very] strong in certain areas and weak in others without being able to make any real comparisons would be interesting

[wkdsoul]

Just now, enigmatic said:

I assume that turning attributes into something that looks like a pro/con report (i.e. most attributes hidden but text notes where attribute > threshold) is still beyond the level of customisation possible using the skinning?

Just knowing a player was [very] strong in certain areas and weak in others without being able to make any real comparisons would be interesting

I just removed all the numbers, not turned them into something else.   They are still there just not visible.   

You can still use the pro/con reports and comparison star reports etc.

[upthetoon]

There's a mod that removes attributes? Wow. That's ultra realism and takes difficulty to a different level. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

I just removed all the numbers, not turned them into something else.   They are still there just not visible.   

You can still use the pro/con reports and comparison star reports etc.

Do you have a link to the mod? Definitely something I’m interested in.

[pembehasan]

7 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

I just removed all the numbers, not turned them into something else.   They are still there just not visible.   

You can still use the pro/con reports and comparison star reports etc.

What's the name of this skin? Looks really cool

[Guest]

My usual method of hiding attributes by chaing the attribute panel on the player profile screen to the analysis graph is no longer avaialble. 

[Defensive]

Am 31.10.2018 um 12:18 schrieb tajj7:

As I near completion of my 2nd season I don't feel it's any harder or easier than last years game. 

Same here. It was different before the latest me update last week, but as many others have stated the game got definitely harder with the update. For me we are back to normal now, some find it hard some find it easy (especially the people who are playing fm for years obviously).

[phnompenhandy]

I have now finished a lengthy experiment and can report my findings.

As a lower-league manager I wanted to see how a LL team would manage the pre-set tactical set-ups. So I set up 9 pre-season friendlies for my amateur level 6 side and played one game with each pre-set (I omitted Catennacio because I lacked even semi-suitable players). The players were the same each game; the opposition were of very similar standard, all a little bit worse than us. I followed the recommended formations for each pre-set but did not adjust and TIs or PIs.

 

I thought the results were quite interesting.

 

The first 4 pre-sets ought to be more suited to higher-level sides - Controlled Possession, Gegenpressing and the 2 Tiki-takas. Here my amateur lads were ridiculously good, playing pretty patterns even if they lacked an end product. After about a week, Team Cohesion was green, whereas in FM18 that took a good 4 months with dedicated Cohesion in General Training. I did here take over a settled squad but still, that seems too easy. For all that I dominated possession and won those games easily, watching the matches was really quite boring, with little action or tension.

 

There was a stark change in the next one, and the following 3. Those were Wing-Play, Route One and the 2 Counter-Attacking sets. In these ones we conceded possession, looked very rough around the edges, made errors and often the matches were in the balance until late on (we lost one and drew one).  These games seemed realistic, challenging and a lot of fun. We finished with 90 mins of Park the Bus, which were way too negative and attracted too many cards, so that's definitely strictly to close out a game.

 

So, in conclusion, I think the first 4 tactics are over-egged and unrealistic for this level of football. To use them would be to exploit the ME. Therefore, I shaln't use them at all. That leaves 4 to play around with and refine to my squad as well as creating my own realistic tactics when I start a campaign for real, which I'm just about to commence.

[Scoham]

29 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

I have now finished a lengthy experiment and can report my findings.

As a lower-league manager I wanted to see how a LL team would manage the pre-set tactical set-ups. So I set up 9 pre-season friendlies for my amateur level 6 side and played one game with each pre-set (I omitted Catennacio because I lacked even semi-suitable players). The players were the same each game; the opposition were of very similar standard, all a little bit worse than us. I followed the recommended formations for each pre-set but did not adjust and TIs or PIs.

 

I thought the results were quite interesting.

 

The first 4 pre-sets ought to be more suited to higher-level sides - Controlled Possession, Gegenpressing and the 2 Tiki-takas. Here my amateur lads were ridiculously good, playing pretty patterns even if they lacked an end product. After about a week, Team Cohesion was green, whereas in FM18 that took a good 4 months with dedicated Cohesion in General Training. I did here take over a settled squad but still, that seems too easy. For all that I dominated possession and won those games easily, watching the matches was really quite boring, with little action or tension.

 

There was a stark change in the next one, and the following 3. Those were Wing-Play, Route One and the 2 Counter-Attacking sets. In these ones we conceded possession, looked very rough around the edges, made errors and often the matches were in the balance until late on (we lost one and drew one).  These games seemed realistic, challenging and a lot of fun. We finished with 90 mins of Park the Bus, which were way too negative and attracted too many cards, so that's definitely strictly to close out a game.

 

So, in conclusion, I think the first 4 tactics are over-egged and unrealistic for this level of football. To use them would be to exploit the ME. Therefore, I shaln't use them at all. That leaves 4 to play around with and refine to my squad as well as creating my own realistic tactics when I start a campaign for real, which I'm just about to commence.

I’d hope those presets with high aggressive pressing result in tired players and more injuries should you use it for a full season in the lower quality leagues.

[wkdsoul]

6 hours ago, Barside said:

Do you have a link to the mod? Definitely something I’m interested in.

That batch i think.

panels.rar

[Defensive]

I dont think you can make any conclusion about a tactic by playing ONE single match with it. Maybe the next 3 matches the team would be destroyed playing controlled possession or tiki taka and you would see the complete opposite.

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, Scoham said:

I’d hope those presets with high aggressive pressing result in tired players and more injuries should you use it for a full season in the lower quality leagues.

I'd hope so too. I only sustained one injury in 9 matches including training. Players who did play 90 mins in some games weren't unduly knackered. The outcome over months if for someone else to find out, perhaps by holidaying - but I'm now getting stuck into my proper career - my observations here can be taken or left.

[Showerman]

find it so easy to keep clean sheets..

press high from the front but regroup and dont counter or counter press with a controlled possesion

 

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I have now finished a lengthy experiment and can report my findings.

As a lower-league manager I wanted to see how a LL team would manage the pre-set tactical set-ups. So I set up 9 pre-season friendlies for my amateur level 6 side and played one game with each pre-set (I omitted Catennacio because I lacked even semi-suitable players). The players were the same each game; the opposition were of very similar standard, all a little bit worse than us. I followed the recommended formations for each pre-set but did not adjust and TIs or PIs.

 

I thought the results were quite interesting.

 

The first 4 pre-sets ought to be more suited to higher-level sides - Controlled Possession, Gegenpressing and the 2 Tiki-takas. Here my amateur lads were ridiculously good, playing pretty patterns even if they lacked an end product. After about a week, Team Cohesion was green, whereas in FM18 that took a good 4 months with dedicated Cohesion in General Training. I did here take over a settled squad but still, that seems too easy. For all that I dominated possession and won those games easily, watching the matches was really quite boring, with little action or tension.

 

There was a stark change in the next one, and the following 3. Those were Wing-Play, Route One and the 2 Counter-Attacking sets. In these ones we conceded possession, looked very rough around the edges, made errors and often the matches were in the balance until late on (we lost one and drew one).  These games seemed realistic, challenging and a lot of fun. We finished with 90 mins of Park the Bus, which were way too negative and attracted too many cards, so that's definitely strictly to close out a game.

 

So, in conclusion, I think the first 4 tactics are over-egged and unrealistic for this level of football. To use them would be to exploit the ME. Therefore, I shaln't use them at all. That leaves 4 to play around with and refine to my squad as well as creating my own realistic tactics when I start a campaign for real, which I'm just about to commence.

Without wanting to sound overly harsh, I think all you've done there is waste some time. 

You'll never learn anything like that. To truly test them, you'd have to complete seasons with each individual tactic, at the same club with the same players, to see how it goes.

[phnompenhandy]

19 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Without wanting to sound overly harsh, I think all you've done there is waste some time. 

You'll never learn anything like that. To truly test them, you'd have to complete seasons with each individual tactic, at the same club with the same players, to see how it goes.

Up to you, but when you read post after post of lower league managers claiming how skillfully they've conquered Europe in record time, remember this thread.

[Dagenham_Dave]

20 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

post after post of lower league managers claiming how skillfully they've conquered Europe in record time,

In fairness, that won't be really all that different to any other FM. 

[craiigman]

2 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

That batch i think.

panels.rar

Thanks mate, will keep this handy.

[RandomGuy.]

59 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Up to you, but when you read post after post of lower league managers claiming how skillfully they've conquered Europe in record time, remember this thread.

I'm not doubting it, just saying that to realistically prove it, you'd have to do more than play one pre-season game.

[b28937]

19 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

I just removed all the numbers, not turned them into something else.   They are still there just not visible.   

You can still use the pro/con reports and comparison star reports etc.

 

This is great.  Less information by definition makes things more difficult. 

I’ve always wished SI would add an OPTIONAL setting to make the numerical ratings on a scale of 1-10 or 1-5.  It wouldn’t change how the game mechanics function (to my knowledge), it would be purely cosmetic..  For example, changing the 1-20 scale to 1-10:

0 = 0

1-2 = 1

3-4 = 2

5-6 = 3

7-8 = 4

9-10 = 5

11-12 = 6

13-14 = 7

15-16 = 8

17-18 = 9

19-20 = 10

In terms of programming, it wouldn’t take anything more than does converting pounds to kilograms or dollars to euros (I wouldn’t think).  The underlying ratings are the same, the only difference is how they are displayed to the user.  Seems like this could easily be done in a patch.

[MBarbaric]

41 minuti fa, b28937 ha scritto:

 

This is great.  Less information by definition makes things more difficult. 

I’ve always wished SI would add an OPTIONAL setting to make the numerical ratings on a scale of 1-10 or 1-5.  It wouldn’t change how the game mechanics function (to my knowledge), it would be purely cosmetic..  For example, changing the 1-20 scale to 1-10:

0 = 0

1-2 = 1

3-4 = 2

5-6 = 3

7-8 = 4

9-10 = 5

11-12 = 6

13-14 = 7

15-16 = 8

17-18 = 9

19-20 = 10

In terms of programming, it wouldn’t take anything more than does converting pounds to kilograms or dollars to euros (I wouldn’t think).  The underlying ratings are the same, the only difference is how they are displayed to the user.  Seems like this could easily be done in a patch.

yep, or just leave the horizontal bars. i remember few years ago they also took out the bars but put it back again after a year or two. disappointed to see them gone again. it would be good to think up some skin hack that would allow us to mask attributes again. This is what I propose:

attributes  visual              descriptional

    1-5          *                     poor

   6-9          **                    decent

 10-13       ***                 good

14-17        ****              very good

18-20        *****           exceptional

[jorgepedro]

First of all, I wish to apologise for my bad english (if it's the case). Second, a little background: I always loved football simulation games and have been playing since the first installment of Championship manager (EIDOS) back in 1992 untill now. (Yes, for those of you who don't know, Footbal Manager could be considered to have its roots in CM...but let's leave that for another discussion.

Sure I haven't played every single FM (maybe I played 2004 but not 2005; maybe I played 2007 but not 2008 and so on). The last one I played in the PC was the 14 (I think) and I played FM18 and FM19 touch. So, as what I am about to say is based mainly in my experience with FM19, I will be also basing my opinion in my past experiences. Along the way there were versions and features I enjoyed more than others (I can't be sure of wich but try to remember as I write).

Ok, so... I find FM19 easy. So easy it took my joy of playing it. Not going to brag with streaks and achievments. But why is it easy? Because we're humans playing against a machine and because we have WAYYYY TOOOOO MUUUCCCCHHHHH INFORMATION and, worse, we know what to do with it and, even worse, WE HAVE TOOLS TO USE IT!

Have you ever imagined?

- a real life manager thinking "well, I think I will play X as a striker because he's 17 finishing, 18 composture, 17 strength and 20 jumping reach".

- talking to a player and telling him "look, you will play as a Deep Lying Playmaker with a support duty" and then, mid match after going one goal ahead, shouting "Hey, now change to a Ball Winning Midfielder with a defend duty"...and then, because the other them managed to score "hey, now play as an Advanced Playmaker with attacking duty!"...and I'm not even talking about player instructions because it would just be hilarious to see Mourinho calling it's players to the touch line one by one and shouting "hey right full back! Make forward runs and take more risks!", "hey right winger! Dribble more and cross more often!", "Hey left winger, as you only have 12 in dribbling don't dribble like your mate but cross more often!"," Hey, ball winning midfielder! Play as a deep lying playmaker, roaming from your position, with more direct passing and taking more risks!"...well, of course something like this happens...BUT NOT LIKE THIS! That's why TEAMS HAVE TRAINING SESSIONS! Of course that if we prepare our tacticts before the match, that's realistic...but because you're loosing and your tactics doesn't seem to work...in real life you can't tell the referee to pause the game so you can tweak your player instructions one by one to make the team play completely different with a brand new tactic, shape and system just because it occurred to you mid match.

- a manager deciding to sign a player he has never met based on the players' personality? If he never met him, how can he know his personality!?! Well, of course there are reports and some rough information about the player (ex: "well, this player seems to be somewhat problematic regarding situations in their past clubs") but never "look at this player with a professional personality and a 18 in Determination...hummm, let's sign him!". Ok...maybe I'm being too strict but EVEN if a manager could know to 100% what a palyer personality is, in real life personalities clash depending on the persons interacting! Maybe a player is a good professional but, after working for some time with a manager, their personalities just don't match. You could argue that this happens in FM but you can control it unrealistically.

- "Oh, who's this? A 17 year old that lives 300 kms away from my Vanarama South team? Hum...let's propose a trial so I can know all about him the minute he shows at the club"...because this is what happens in game...and it sure wouldn't happen in real life! Immediately after he joins the club for trial your assistant tells you all there is to know about him...and would he even accept a trial proposition so far away? Also, would you even know that the player existed? (mind you I'm basing this on FMT, don't know for sure if it happens in PC version...in past versions it did).

And there is a lot more info and tools that in real life don't exist and a manager would have to infer from observation (that's what makes the difference in a manager)...but on FM you can get with a click (ex: player evolution in training: in real life you would have a broad idea of how a player is performing but in FM you know that is PASSING increased from 10 to 11...)

For example, one thing I sure miss from CM is the ability to choose your own personality at the beggining of the game. It would greatly affect the game because players would like or dislike you based on their and yours personality.

Also, I think attributes shouldn't exist (I know there's a mod that hides them). For me, it would be better if some attributes, that are noticeable as soon as you see the person, where known (ex: height, weight, strength more or less), others would become known (not specifically) with the time you spend with the player (ex: you start knowing that a player is fast or not, if he shoots well or not, if he jumps high or not) but not with a specific number (ex: passing - bad, acceptable, good, superb) and others were never know but you would infer it by observing palyer performance in matches and training. Also, scouts and assistants would help but not with an overwhelming knowledge.

I think that player personality and traits should work the same way, being know only with time (ex: more notifications about player behaviour off field, press conferences, relations with colleagues).

Maybe it would make you play FM taking A LOT of notes but the game would definitely be more challenging and real.

Some tweaks in the tactics shouldn't be allowed after the match starts (unless you have trained them). No more tweaking every single player instruction one by one because you conceded (actually, I don't do this but I read some posts where people do it).

There is also a feature that maybe would be easy to include in FM that seems a minor change but would GREATLY affect gameplay: 
sending your players to warm up before substitution. 
Seems a minor change but if injuries and player performance were affected by not having your players warmed before making them enter a match as a sub, you would have to plan ahead what Will be your course of action in-match. No more "let's play and see what happens" because you would have to pay attention at how the match and players are developing and have a plan rather than choosing only when something significant happens.  

Sometimes when I play the game I have other ideas on how I would change some particular feature in FM but now I only remembered those.

[yolixeya]

59 minutes ago, jorgepedro said:

Have you ever imagined?

- a real life manager thinking "well, I think I will play X as a striker because he's 17 finishing, 18 composture, 17 strength and 20 jumping reach".

A real life manager has something far better. He gets to watch the guy everyday in training. If we didn't have attributes we would have to judge the player on animations that are very limited. Also real life coach gets to talk with the players everyday and they know what is expected of them. He don't have to shout every single thing, that is just something we have to do and it's how is represented to us as it is still just a game.

I do agree that some things can be improved, you had a fine example with how trials are done. You should maybe post it in requests section. 

[jorgepedro]

2 hours ago, yolixeya said:

A real life manager has something far better. He gets to watch the guy everyday in training. If we didn't have attributes we would have to judge the player on animations that are very limited. Also real life coach gets to talk with the players everyday and they know what is expected of them. He don't have to shout every single thing, that is just something we have to do and it's how is represented to us as it is still just a game.

I do agree that some things can be improved, you had a fine example with how trials are done. You should maybe post it in requests section. 

I mentioned "you would infer it by observing palyer performance in matches and TRAINING". 

Of course you could nota rely solely on animations but I also said that some attributes should have a rating, not specifically a number. And this should happen mainly with technical attributes. Imagine that you start managing a team and after some trainings you are given an idea of the player hability in PASSING (ex: acceptable) and then you would refine your knowledge based on what you watch on matches. 

I agree that some managers get to know some players very well but that is based on observation rather than all the info being handed to them AND it takes time, I mean, it's not instantaneous. (ex: if a player trains penaltys but never gets to take a penalty in match, how would the manager know if he's capable of handling pressure?)

And I'm not requesting that they make it like this, I'm only mentioning why I think the game becomes easy and some ideas to make it less easy. Of course I would like it to be something like this but other players surely wouldn't like it.

[Guest]

FM19 is far away from real football tactics and training. Hope that FM20 will solve some problems.

[CFuller]

Just now, Cadoni said:

FM19 is far away from real football tactics and training. Hope that FM20 will solve some problems.

And why exactly is that? Could you care to explain that?

[Kerim Balkan]

Fm is getting worst since 2014, you can't select small teams, you can't practice your players, you can't give your players tactical orders because game don't care what you order them. It's really getting worst and they just harder the game not playable. I just uninstall the game. It sucks. 

[Svenc]

I've personally just installed Pathfinder Kingmaker. I'm Looking Forward to being tested some and have already spend Hours on just fiddling with character creation (and researching the Pathfiner rulesets). :P Whilst FM allows you to do truly horrible Things that arguably shouldn't be possible given that it simulates "professional" football, there's so much Feedback introduced (some still bad though), and with the Right assistants, it's even a game that can Play itself (unless you're Looking for one those experiences with back to back to back to back promotions, no possible sack or Relegation fight or slump or "realistic" Football ever and Player Quality in General mattering nought, but there's community stuff for that too).