Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[PratoJoe]

People will always have issues with tactics (I'm including my self), there will always be good and bad ones and for sure that there isn't perfect or magic tactics. But when we see:

a) throw-in's being taken directly to the opponent (having available players to receive the ball)

b) a striker coming close to receive the ball without being instructed to do so (another throw-in issue

c) GK's and defenders making assists to opponent players

d) Defenders not reacting to long balls

e) Forwards that refuse to run with the ball to goal into the penalty box (having space to and instructed to drible more) and just shoots as soon they are outside the box

f) corners frequently going out

g) top players with 15 or more first touch attribute not able to control the ball

and so on, and so on, then it's no use telling us our tactics sucks.

That's what i wanted to say, but with bad english never came.

However, this is what i intend.

Of course i can wrong ALL in tactics, im not a genius and i doubt i'll ever be

But how can i correct something if i play a match fierly and i lose 6-0 only by individual errors while the opponents find the game of their life?

[Tiger666]

e) Forwards that refuse to run with the ball to goal into the penalty box (having space to and instructed to drible more) and just shoots as soon they are outside the box

.

This one grinds my gears.

[RTHerringbone]

I hate to make a GD faux pas and actually be positive, but of all of the issues which keep being mentioned in here, the vast majority are raised in the Bugs Forum, and acknowledged by SI as being works in progress.

As a reminder, PaulC referenced goalkeeper behaviour, corners and general individual play among the fixes.

Specifically referencing petergoddard above:

Throw ins are documented quite well in the Bugs Forum, with long flat bullet throws' effectiveness and generally throwing the ball to the AI acknowledged and in development. I really want the aimless throws to be sorted.

Is a striker moving to offer a target for a throw in a bad thing? More options means less likelihood of possession being lost at a throw. I don't know precisely what you mean here, and have seen no Bugs raised to that effect. If it annoys you sufficiently, then please raise a Bug Report or you may not see any fixes to this (if required).

GK and Defender assists to opponents are not something I see often enough to be concerned about personally. Again, I can't recall seeing this mentioned in the Bugs Forum, but I'm by no means The Oracle.

Defenders not reacting to long balls is an issue on occasions, but have been the exception rather than the rule for me. I would suggest that it isn't a prevalent enough issue to be truly bugged, but that's just my opinion.

Forwards shooting too early when they have time and space to get closer to goal is a definite issue. Expect to see improvements.

Corners are well documented and will be improved. There are too many, too many go out, and the headed clearances are often poor. Expect to see improvements.

Dodgy first touch is well known. Expect to see improvements.

[petergoddard]

I hate to make a GD faux pas and actually be positive, but of all of the issues which keep being mentioned in here, the vast majority are raised in the Bugs Forum, and acknowledged by SI as being works in progress.

As a reminder, PaulC referenced goalkeeper behaviour, corners and general individual play among the fixes.

Specifically referencing petergoddard above:

Throw ins are documented quite well in the Bugs Forum, with long flat bullet throws' effectiveness and generally throwing the ball to the AI acknowledged and in development. I really want the aimless throws to be sorted.

Is a striker moving to offer a target for a throw in a bad thing? More options means less likelihood of possession being lost at a throw. I don't know precisely what you mean here, and have seen no Bugs raised to that effect. If it annoys you sufficiently, then please raise a Bug Report or you may not see any fixes to this (if required).

GK and Defender assists to opponents are not something I see often enough to be concerned about personally. Again, I can't recall seeing this mentioned in the Bugs Forum, but I'm by no means The Oracle.

Defenders not reacting to long balls is an issue on occasions, but have been the exception rather than the rule for me. I would suggest that it isn't a prevalent enough issue to be truly bugged, but that's just my opinion.

Forwards shooting too early when they have time and space to get closer to goal is a definite issue. Expect to see improvements.

Corners are well documented and will be improved. There are too many, too many go out, and the headed clearances are often poor. Expect to see improvements.

Dodgy first touch is well known. Expect to see improvements.

The striker coming close to get the ball is something that has been reported since fm13 and of course is bad a thing: If I want him somewhere else and I instruct him to be somewhere else it's for a reason and I don't need someone else telling me "well, but we think it's better this way".

Also forgot to mention when I instruct a player to get glose when setting short corners, I expect the player to really get glose and not just stand outside the penalty box being man-marked.

[RTHerringbone]

The striker coming close to get the ball is something that has been reported since fm13 and of course is bad a thing: If I want him somewhere else and I instruct him to be somewhere else it's for a reason and I don't need someone else telling me "well, but we think it's better this way".

Also forgot to mention when I instruct a player to get glose when setting short corners, I expect the player to really get glose and not just stand outside the penalty box being man-marked.

How serious do you consider these bugs to be?

You don't appear to have raised them in the Bugs Forum, and nobody else has, so it is far from inconceivable that they aren't on SI's radar.

If you have examples that you can upload, then there is a chance that they will get fixed.

If you just mention them here, then there is a good chance that they won't.

[nozshand]

The striker coming close to get the ball is something that has been reported since fm13 and of course is bad a thing: If I want him somewhere else and I instruct him to be somewhere else it's for a reason and I don't need someone else telling me "well, but we think it's better this way".

Also forgot to mention when I instruct a player to get glose when setting short corners, I expect the player to really get glose and not just stand outside the penalty box being man-marked.

it could be that you give the striker too much creative freedom. That being said, my wingers shoot from byline 9/10 times is more serious problem.

[looking busy]

it could be that you give the striker too much creative freedom. That being said, my wingers shoot from byline 9/10 times is more serious problem.

Are they shooting, or just very bad at crossing, with mine I'm never 100% sure.

[nozshand]

Are they shooting, or just very bad at crossing, with mine I'm never 100% sure.

definitely shooting because the ball always hit the side net with occasionally the post, surely you can't cross out of the bound everytime

[looking busy]

definitely shooting because the ball always hit the side net with occasionally the post, surely you can't cross out of the bound everytime

lol. You've not seen my players try and take corners. Only about 1 in every 7 or 8 actually stays in play. Don't know what it is but my players can't cross for ****, granted they are only Skrill Prem level, but I'd be embarrassed to see it in Sunday League

[petergoddard]

it could be that you give the striker too much creative freedom. That being said, my wingers shoot from byline 9/10 times is more serious problem.

well, but we cannot tweak the striker's CF can we ?

I don't think is a matter of CF: considering that I have good players and I always choose players with better mental attributes, if my striker would have less CF than he would follow my instruction (he has space and only one defender left), and go for the dribble, get inside the penalty box and shoot near the goal; on the other hand if my striker would have higher CF I expect him to go for the better decision fo his own and this would not be to shoot from distance because he's better than the defender, he can easily go pass him and shoot from near goal.

I think it's just poor decision from players that need to be improved.

For instance, when defending players just shoot the ball to anywhere (maybe avoiding beeing hassled) when they have perfectly secure passing options.

Considering what I have said before, I think it's understandble that people loose it a bit when they have bought a game, supposedly that has been tested before relasing, and then alongside to have to wait several months for an exagerated amount of issues for being fixed they still are being asked to present those same issues because if they don't SI can't identify them... after several patches. And on the top of this, we have to read "it's your tactics", "be constructive... or else".

[RTHerringbone]

they still are being asked to present those same issues because if they don't SI can't identify them.

You mentioned a specific throw-in issue which isn't logged in the Bugs Forum, and as far as I can recall has not been mentioned in any of the feedback threads by any other users.

If you really want to have it investigated, then the best method of doing so is logging a Bug Report appropriately:

http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/365-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/368795

[PratoJoe]

I play with a 4-3-3 with a DM. I don't know if it's a bug or it's me, so im asking.

It's possible that the fullbacks try to create the game instead of longpassing the ball every time they touch it?

Because in this way i find the game unplayable.

Sometimes they even create a goal action, and results are not so bad in the end.

But it's really ugly to see.

[mhaffy]

Just starting 15/16 pre season with Chelsea and was pleasantly surprised to see that a testimonial was arranged for Petr Cech....nice touch. Well done SI

[Erith22]

The point is, Kondogbia slowly walks the ball into his own player.

I see this happening ALL THE TIME.

Players running with the ball directly into their teammates and losing the ball.

[Sussex Hammer]

If you are watching Sunday League you also see players getting in each others way several times every match

Funniest thing I have read for years on this site. I played Saturday and Sunday League for 20 years and can honestly say I have never seen two players collide like the clip shown. Going for the same ball in the air - yes, odd occasion going for the same ball to shoot - yes but one always moved out of the way, but never ever that sort of thing. An attempted pass back that goes for a corner - that would be more realistic than what happens in the clip. You cannot defend what happens in the clip as realistic play at all surely.

[PratoJoe]

I play with a 4-3-3 with a DM. I don't know if it's a bug or it's me, so im asking.

It's possible that the fullbacks try to create the game instead of longpassing the ball every time they touch it?

Because in this way i find the game unplayable.

Sometimes they even create a goal action, and results are not so bad in the end.

But it's really ugly to see.

Nothing.

I try "pass shorter" and "avoid risk passing" (or how it is in english) in the Individual instructions.

It came nothing.

They continue to furiously launch the ball to the CF. Often it's a lost ball, but sometimes it become a goal, cause the CF heading through passing put the others forwards in a one-on-one situation. For me it's good, in some way, but i repeat: i'd like to instruct my fullback to not kick the ball forward alone.

[CityAndColour]

Silly question but do you have "pass into space" as a shout?

I use this and it results in a lot of aimless balls being hit when there are better, shorter options available.

[Jibby123]

Funniest thing I have read for years on this site. I played Saturday and Sunday League for 20 years and can honestly say I have never seen two players collide like the clip shown. Going for the same ball in the air - yes, odd occasion going for the same ball to shoot - yes but one always moved out of the way, but never ever that sort of thing. An attempted pass back that goes for a corner - that would be more realistic than what happens in the clip. You cannot defend what happens in the clip as realistic play at all surely.

To be fair I don't think you were too happy with the last version in FM13 iirc, so expecting any different a year on is kind of squiffy.

[Svenc]

God knows how robotic the players are on Very Rigid...

Not moreso. RFD determining off the ball forward movement has never been really linked to creative freedom, the main link is "mentality". I.e. it is the mentality structures in behind "fluidity" making some difference, with a special one being "balanced", what wwfan was likely after and trying to find out. "Balanced" means attack duty players are the most aggressive across all squad, as the duties determine mentality. Therefore, there is a higher likelyhood of FBs/a overlapping and starting very early runs in "balanced", as the higher the mentality, the earlier players are likely to time their runs. The "look for overlap" team instructions/shouts have always utilized that correlation, vastly increasing "mentality" for FBs for a start. That is also a big part why mentality and RFD were argued to be the most important settings prior. I don't think the in-game text covers this that well, as even after the reworked tactics tools, the implications are much the same still. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/108695-Ditch-the-quot-mentality-quot-slider-altogether.?p=2869416&viewfull=1#post2869416 Obviously on more aggressive mentalities the FBs are generally more likely to bomb forward early on (but on balanced they are likely to do so earliest, when given attack duties).

I agree to the general point though – to an extent. The thing is that with RFD set to "often" it isn't the player's decision making determining the run, that is what the "mixed" setting was for (a lot of supporting roles come with this, as is hopefully clear from the text descriptions now). With RFDs maxed out the player would always make runs off the ball during an attack, has always been the case on either philosphy/fluidity. In terms of movement, players in older iterations have arguably been much more robotic, though. You could have your FBs sit back all the time, whereas they now are likely to push ahead to the DM strata or occasionally even come a little forward to support a wide midfielder in posessioin regardless here and there to an extent.

We could make an argument that generally players could employ even more common sense. But then I think SI were already critisized for making the FBs less robotic ca. post FM 2010 - players want to have full control over everything, but obviously that is neither how management nor football works to large extents, as indeed players apply common sense. In that sense, the following AMC role/duty combo, possibly an "attacking midfielder on attack duty) makes the AMC occupy the exact same space as the lone forward (possible supporting) also (and causing a huge gap in the centre of the park each time when in possession): http://i.imgur.com/xhq9Uw2.png It could be a PPM, but it is likely the role/duty. Additionally, none of the centre players is then given a role/duty that is going to close that gap. Neither player will adapt, they're just following their role/duty off the ball movement orders every time when going forward and they do so on any fluidity. Take the roles/duties out as they are though, and you also take out what 1) the biggest direct influence on team shape by far in the game and 2) concequently one of the biggest divisors between thought through, mediocre and just plain bad tactics.

If players would always adapt and close gaps and correct undermanned areas themselves all the while avoiding standing on each other's feet by default (or at least depending on their attributes), the way the ME is set up right now there'd be arguably not much left causing the difference, at least not when going forward. Additionally it wouldn't reflect football, as for all common sense applied during a match, there's also obvious effects of getting a tactics really really wrong. As players misinterpreted (and liked to use) the sliders previously as micro-tools that let them very precisely position d-lines, set exact zones for closing down, and much more (neither obviously was the case), further I don't know if taking even more micro-control out of the game would be a good thing...

[Tiger666]

Has anyone raised concerns about the speed of the ball? What I mean is, so often a through ball or ball over the top runs like a marble on a snooker table. The striker can't catch it and it runs to the keeper.

[Sussex Hammer]

To be fair I don't think you were too happy with the last version in FM13 iirc, so expecting any different a year on is kind of squiffy.

All I would like as a long time lover of the game is that the ME resembles football and the same issues don't reoccur every release. Defending, corners, bad goalkeeping, bad finishing, endless arguments about clear cut chances, too little crossing, too much crossing, the ball moves too fast, the ball moves too slow, three at the back doesn't work, four at the back doesn't work, bad passing, etc etc etc. It's just the same old complaints and it gets frustrating I'm sure being told on a "feedback" thread that it's always the users tactics that are to blame when the same issues keep reoccurring.

FM13 wasn't a bad game. Chances in a game were pretty real life like 6 - 10 each in my matches. The only thing that annoyed me was a lack of through balls and the lack of different types of goals. FM14 however seems to have chances in the high 20's at times. Maybe that is my tactics but things like players running into each other, goalkeepers turning in mid air and constant poor decisions do get frustrating. Then you get workaround suggestions to help the continuous blocked crosses or mark opposition full backs to get players to track back (mainly a 12 and 13 issue) but surely all we want is a game that works rather than workarounds!!

[PratoJoe]

Silly question but do you have "pass into space" as a shout?

I use this and it results in a lot of aimless balls being hit when there are better, shorter options available.

With me, nothing is silly!

However no

[Gooner88]

I've played FM/CM for 11 years and for the first time ever I'm uninstalling the game. It's a joke that 3 and a half months after release it's still like this. I've won games and I've lost games but it's just not realistic. In order to win a game you need to score three because the opposition will definitely score from a corner and the defence will make a mistake every other game. I know all the usual fan boys will be screaming that it's tactics but this is my feedback.

[WelshMourinho]

I've just realised having individual player instructions on multiple tactics basically messes it all up. Mainly use 4-4-1-1 and 4-1-2-2-1, with the 4-4-1-1 I have a dlp(D) and b2b (S) behind a Treq. However, if on the 4-1-2-2-1 I put an individual player instruction for a player at say the AP(A) role, then it switches his B2B role on the 4-4-1-1 to AP(A) as well. Surely it shouldn't work that way? Luckily I've noticed it about 6 games in, will abandon using them for now.

[philarmonic]

My GKs are still having a few issues....

http://gyazo.com/f6cb6fbd6ca2e948373ab3864ce6d24e

http://gyazo.com/22cd1d3266e09e8f45d52c753af6111b

These are both from the last few days

Along with that, my tactics are always losing familiarity due to swapping between them and as Arwelt mentions, all the instructions get mixed up. Mega frustrating.

[BiggusD]

Not moreso. RFD determining off the ball forward movement has never been really linked to creative freedom, the main link is "mentality". I.e. it is the mentality structures in behind "fluidity" making some difference, with a special one being "balanced", what wwfan was likely after and trying to find out. "Balanced" means attack duty players are the most aggressive across all squad, as the duties determine mentality. Therefore, there is a higher likelyhood of FBs/a overlapping and starting very early runs in "balanced", as the higher the mentality, the earlier players are likely to time their runs. The "look for overlap" team instructions/shouts have always utilized that correlation, vastly increasing "mentality" for FBs for a start. That is also a big part why mentality and RFD were argued to be the most important settings prior. I don't think the in-game text covers this that well, as even after the reworked tactics tools, the implications are much the same still. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/108695-Ditch-the-quot-mentality-quot-slider-altogether.?p=2869416&viewfull=1#post2869416 Obviously on more aggressive mentalities the FBs are generally more likely to bomb forward early on (but on balanced they are likely to do so earliest, when given attack duties).

I agree to the general point though – to an extent. The thing is that with RFD set to "often" it isn't the player's decision making determining the run, that is what the "mixed" setting was for (a lot of supporting roles come with this, as is hopefully clear from the text descriptions now). With RFDs maxed out the player would always make runs off the ball during an attack, has always been the case on either philosphy/fluidity. In terms of movement, players in older iterations have arguably been much more robotic, though. You could have your FBs sit back all the time, whereas they now are likely to push ahead to the DM strata or occasionally even come a little forward to support a wide midfielder in posessioin regardless here and there to an extent.

We could make an argument that generally players could employ even more common sense. But then I think SI were already critisized for making the FBs less robotic ca. post FM 2010 - players want to have full control over everything, but obviously that is neither how management nor football works to large extents, as indeed players apply common sense. In that sense, the following AMC role/duty combo, possibly an "attacking midfielder on attack duty) makes the AMC occupy the exact same space as the lone forward (possible supporting) also (and causing a huge gap in the centre of the park each time when in possession): http://i.imgur.com/xhq9Uw2.png It could be a PPM, but it is likely the role/duty. Additionally, none of the centre players is then given a role/duty that is going to close that gap. Neither player will adapt, they're just following their role/duty off the ball movement orders every time when going forward and they do so on any fluidity. Take the roles/duties out as they are though, and you also take out what 1) the biggest direct influence on team shape by far in the game and 2) concequently one of the biggest divisors between thought through, mediocre and just plain bad tactics.

If players would always adapt and close gaps and correct undermanned areas themselves all the while avoiding standing on each other's feet by default (or at least depending on their attributes), the way the ME is set up right now there'd be arguably not much left causing the difference, at least not when going forward. Additionally it wouldn't reflect football, as for all common sense applied during a match, there's also obvious effects of getting a tactics really really wrong. As players misinterpreted (and liked to use) the sliders previously as micro-tools that let them very precisely position d-lines, set exact zones for closing down, and much more (neither obviously was the case), further I don't know if taking even more micro-control out of the game would be a good thing...

The whole point is that FM should allow both approaches, but FM14 isn't very good at that. If set to Very Fluid, a relatively sensible tactic should allow the players to adapt to the situation and make decisions based on their own judgement. If set to Very Rigid, the players should adhere to the instructions to a much higher degree. I don't care about the particulars in the game of what fluidity actually does - the idea of fluidity is that of having a very specific game-plan where every player is a cog in the machinery, versus a general gameplan where the players are individual machines in a network. If at Very Fluid players on attacking duties are encouraged to ignore all defensive work, then that instruction does the exact opposite of what it should.

[nozshand]

this is my last straw, I lost all hopes for this ME. My strike obviously got a clear 1 on 1 chance then he magically decided to back pass to my cm outside the box

[OPAgusta]

this is my last straw, I lost all hopes for this ME. My strike obviously got a clear 1 on 1 chance then he magically decided to back pass to my cm outside the box

I am pretty sure that somebody in this forum will reply you with comment "oh well it is your tactic!". However as mod has previously mentioned, player's decision making in the final third will be looked at in the next patch.

[samdiatmh]

I need to reinstall the damn game after the update was terminated due to a computer crash

3.9GB to redownload

fuuuuu

[RTHerringbone]

I am pretty sure that somebody in this forum will reply you with comment "oh well it is your tactic!". However as mod has previously mentioned, player's decision making in the final third will be looked at in the next patch.

To be fair, it is Nicklas Bendtner.

[Beestonite]

Has anyone raised concerns about the speed of the ball? What I mean is, so often a through ball or ball over the top runs like a marble on a snooker table. The striker can't catch it and it runs to the keeper.

God yes. Over and over again. 'They' have accepted that it isn't perfect but aren't doing anything about it with this fix. Player movement and ball speed are poor at the moment. Way back in this thread there is a bit where we discuss it. Basically there isn't ever an occasion where a pass with backspin is simulated in the ME. It always skids off as you describe.

The other day I had an instance where a defender headed it away (weakly judging by his movement and the ball arc) from the edge of the D. It managed to run off past the halfway line and out of play. Just looked ridiculous.

Edit: They have said they will look at it, at some point.

[Gustavo Pandolfo]

After I updated my game to the 14.2.2, I can't play anymore. Because in every game there are 2 or 3 players injured and between the games there are other players who are injuring.

Before this patch it wasn't happening. I serached for topics related to this in the forum and the only thing I found was that it could be related to the training. But why only now after this patch it's happening this?

[forameuss]

After I updated my game to the 14.2.2, I can't play anymore. Because in every game there are 2 or 3 players injured and between the games there are other players who are injuring.

Before this patch it wasn't happening. I serached for topics related to this in the forum and the only thing I found was that it could be related to the training. But why only now after this patch it's happening this?

As far as I'm aware, there were no changes affecting this in 14.2.2, so would just be coincidence in that case.

[RTHerringbone]

As far as I'm aware, there were no changes affecting this in 14.2.2, so would just be coincidence in that case.

Correct - nothing in 14.2.2 or 14.2.1 affected the ME (and therefore injuries) in any way.

In fact, I don't believe that injuries have been tuned at all in FM14 because soak tests reveal that injuries are fractionally lower in FM14 than in real life.

[pvdv85]

soak tests reveal that injuries are fractionally lower in FM14 than in real life.

I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

[Äktsjon Männ]

We could make an argument that generally players could employ even more common sense. But then I think SI were already critisized for making the FBs less robotic ca. post FM 2010 - players want to have full control over everything, but obviously that is neither how management nor football works to large extents, as indeed players apply common sense. In that sense, the following AMC role/duty combo, possibly an "attacking midfielder on attack duty) makes the AMC occupy the exact same space as the lone forward (possible supporting) also (and causing a huge gap in the centre of the park each time when in possession): http://i.imgur.com/xhq9Uw2.png It could be a PPM, but it is likely the role/duty. Additionally, none of the centre players is then given a role/duty that is going to close that gap. Neither player will adapt, they're just following their role/duty off the ball movement orders every time when going forward and they do so on any fluidity. Take the roles/duties out as they are though, and you also take out what 1) the biggest direct influence on team shape by far in the game and 2) concequently one of the biggest divisors between thought through, mediocre and just plain bad tactics.

If players would always adapt and close gaps and correct undermanned areas themselves all the while avoiding standing on each other's feet by default (or at least depending on their attributes), the way the ME is set up right now there'd be arguably not much left causing the difference, at least not when going forward. Additionally it wouldn't reflect football, as for all common sense applied during a match, there's also obvious effects of getting a tactics really really wrong. As players misinterpreted (and liked to use) the sliders previously as micro-tools that let them very precisely position d-lines, set exact zones for closing down, and much more (neither obviously was the case), further I don't know if taking even more micro-control out of the game would be a good thing...

There's a fine balance to be struck there between things we should have control over and instances where common sense applies. What we expect to get out of the tactical interface and ME is the sense that we are communicating with our players - we see them doing something we don't like so we can tell them to try and do differently. Issues arise when the ME logic starts to interfere with that 'communication' process.

An example to explain what I mean - whenever I try to get my team play a build up game from the back starting from the GK I keep seeing a specific unwanted pattern that goes like this: GK short pass to the LB -> LB long whack over everyone's heads. Over and over again. This is the game logic taking over, whatever passing instructions I try and give the LB he for some reason won't recognise any short options in midfield nor will he try and go back to the CB's or the GK because his decision making process determines that an aimless punt is the best (safest?) option. The problem with that is that it breaks the immersion of that manager to player communication because I can't just tell the guy to not be a dick and do as I say for once. I wan't him to try and follow the instructions and when these instructions start getting him in trouble then common sense could take over or it would be down to me as a manager to adapt. That would be good feedback. Another problem with the pattern described is the lack of adaptability in the first place - if it's common sense for the guy to keep whacking it then at some point it's also common sense to realise that he's giving the ball away virtually every time, and then try to adapt. I mean in reality the midfield players themselves who are asking for the ball only to see it sail over everyone's heads and out of play time after time would take it into their own hands and tell the guy to sort himself out. THAT is the kind of adaptability we should expect out of the game.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

You've just been unlucky and are having a bit of an injury crisis. This happens. There were teams in the EPL last season that had 10+ players out injured for spells at one point or another.

[forameuss]

I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

Because you're taking your situation and extrapolating it across a massive set. The SI soak tests will take hundreds, if not thousands of results to make up a statistical analysis. You're taking yours. Personally the injuries in my save aren't that high at all. The only times I remember getting multiple injuries after games, it's those of the 3-5 days variety, which I'd say is pretty realistic. I can only remember a handful of games where I've had to make all of my subs due to injuries, and that was when the opposition appeared to be targeting certain players. So if you add mine and yours, the average is coming down. If you then add hundreds more, they'll start to approach the results SI are seeing.

[Flohrinho]

I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

It's just bad luck. Have a look at the injury table if every team has 7+ injured players then there might be something wrong but if it's just you, well then you have a injury streak which happens from time to time.

[PratoJoe]

To be fair, it is Nicklas Bendtner.

Ah ah ah ah!!! Epic!

[jc1]

Out of curiosity I started a new save and went back to a tactic that worked fine after the 1st update after the Beta release.

Playing a 4-2-3-1

Strikers poor/playing a high line lose goals over top/passing atrocious/lose goals from o.g's at corners/passing poor etc etc

Change to a 4-4-2/4-1-3-2 system that took me ages to work on and suddenly, strikers are scoring, defence is better and less og's etc

Now the original 4-2-3-1 was made specifically to counteract the bugs in the ME at the time, the then new update came out 14.2.1, my tactic then didn't work so well and I had to then re think my tactic to counteract the new bugs that we have and the ones got rid off.

Basically what I'm saying is all these changing and tweaking of tactics shouldn't have to happen, a good solid tactic should work whatever the update with just the tiniest of tweaks and adjustments, not a whole radical overhaul of them. This was the same in last years game and I hated it for that reason, FM12 was a joy to play but since then ME has been messed around with too much and it now seems bug ridden.

Rant over.

[forameuss]

I may be getting existential here, but how closely linked is how you are doing in a save to how good you think the ME is? Some complain of the football not being very good to watch, which is an exception to the rule, but I'm convinced that if you're doing well, you'll forgive a lot of sins, and if you're doing badly, you might start seeing things that aren't there. Two sides of the same coin. You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies?

[Dagenham_Dave]

You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies?

Nail. On. Head.

[forameuss]

I may be getting existential here, but how closely linked is how you are doing in a save to how good you think the ME is? Some complain of the football not being very good to watch, which is an exception to the rule, but I'm convinced that if you're doing well, you'll forgive a lot of sins, and if you're doing badly, you might start seeing things that aren't there. Two sides of the same coin. You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies?

Also, this is in no way meant to be derogatory towards anyone that enjoys FM12, or that is focused on winning. Several times I've found myself bored with FM14 because I'm not doing well, and I'm not a particularly good manager. It's natural that most players will prefer a game where they win to one which they don't. If it was the other way around, Dark Souls would be a best-selling game, and not the close-to-niche game that it is now.

[Tuddur]

I may be getting existential here, but how closely linked is how you are doing in a save to how good you think the ME is? Some complain of the football not being very good to watch, which is an exception to the rule, but I'm convinced that if you're doing well, you'll forgive a lot of sins, and if you're doing badly, you might start seeing things that aren't there

No, I dont think so. I won every trophy possible my last season at LFC, but didnt enjoy it at all as highlights from matches were basically corner after corner after corner.

Felt sad playing Barca in the CL, the only time I saw Messi in the game was when he was lucky and got hit by one of the corner richocets

[forameuss]

No, I dont think so. I won every trophy possible my last season at LFC, but didnt enjoy it at all as highlights from matches were basically corner after corner after corner.

Felt sad playing Barca in the CL, the only time I saw Messi in the game was when he was lucky and got hit by one of the corner richocets

I did say there were exceptions to the rule. I just can't see the link to "FM14's ME is horrible to watch, I'm going back to FM12".

[Dagenham_Dave]

No, I dont think so. I won every trophy possible my last season at LFC, but didnt enjoy it at all

Why would you continue to play something you 'don't enjoy at all'? I'm not having a go here before the usual suspects come along with their pitchforks, I'm genuinely curious.

For instance, I bought Left 4 Dead 2 yesterday as it was cheap being an oldish game. Within half an hour, I knew I really wasn't enjoying it, so I put it off, and will likely not play it again. I can't understand why people would continue to play a game (ie a luxury pastime) they didn't enjoy.

But perhaps that's just me.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I did say there were exceptions to the rule. I just can't see the link to "FM14's ME is horrible to watch, I'm going back to FM12".

The link is easy to see. FM12/11 is much more fluid with more noticeable individual play, there's much less of that indecisive ambling about that makes 13/14 a frustrating experience for many, less blatantly 'in your face' player errors and if you don't set out to deliberately exploit the through balls to forwards pattern the major statistical numbers are more balanced. It's not a better simulation of a football match largely because there aren't enough passes/possessions but it's not at all hard to see why it can be much less frustrating to watch as a highlights package regardless of wins or losses.

[jc1]

Why would you continue to play something you 'don't enjoy at all'? I'm not having a go here before the usual suspects come along with their pitchforks, I'm genuinely curious.

For instance, I bought Left 4 Dead 2 yesterday as it was cheap being an oldish game. Within half an hour, I knew I really wasn't enjoying it, so I put it off, and will likely not play it again. I can't understand why people would continue to play a game (ie a luxury pastime) they didn't enjoy.

But perhaps that's just me.

I think people still carry on playing it because they love the idea of managing a successful team and also in the hope that the watching may get better even with it's faults. TBH if you watch in full or extended mode there are less corners and more actual game play.

[Svenc]

The whole point is that FM should allow both approaches, but FM14 isn't very good at that. If set to Very Fluid, a relatively sensible tactic should allow the players to adapt to the situation and make decisions based on their own judgement. If set to Very Rigid, the players should adhere to the instructions to a much higher degree. I don't care about the particulars in the game of what fluidity actually does - the idea of fluidity is that of having a very specific game-plan where every player is a cog in the machinery, versus a general gameplan where the players are individual machines in a network. If at Very Fluid players on attacking duties are encouraged to ignore all defensive work, then that instruction does the exact opposite of what it should.

The FB's in the above clip aren't "ignoring their defensive" work. Rather, it is either a "look for overlap" instruction or the combination of fluidity and mentality causing them rush up as soon as the side gains the ball. That is much more likely to happen in "balanced" fluidity actually rather than any of the fluid ones, as in "balanced", without going into mechanics, players "focus on their duties", as the game puts it. What this means in practice is that even without any team instructions applied, attacking full backs or wing backs in a "balanced" fluidity are more prone to overlap than in any other fluidity. The more aggressive the mentality, the more early they will start their runs. Hence the fluidity/mentality inquiry by wwfan.

Naturally, in terms of implementing complex and rather abstracts concepts such as "fluidity" it is firstly up for interpretation as to what exactly "fluidity" in football even is*, and then are limitations dictated by the instructions under the hood. To put it in another way: The fluidities never have fully worked the way you like them to do. This has never been any different before, it has always been the role and duty combinations pretty much determining off the ball movement too, that is why they are the most important to set up and feature prominently in wwfan's 12 step guide also. The counter argument could be the following: If off the ball movement itself was truly "fluid", imagine the chaos that would unfurl if a crucial holding player with lowish attributes was prone to leave his position frequently rather than stick to his instructions. In parts this conflict in "fluidity" might be because SI think differently of the general concept than you. In parts it is no doubt also mechanical limitations. Your best bet now is that SI aren't limited to the sliders anymore. Roles such as the half back have already been fully isolated and given behavior that previously was impossible to implement given the sliders of yore.

An example to explain what I mean - whenever I try to get my team play a build up game from the back starting from the GK I keep seeing a specific unwanted pattern that goes like this: GK short pass to the LB -> LB long whack over everyone's heads. Over and over again. This is the game logic taking over, whatever passing instructions I try and give the LB he for some reason won't recognise any short options in midfield nor will he try and go back to the CB's or the GK because his decision making process determines that an aimless punt is the best (safest?) option.

That could be game logics, it could also be something being lost in that "communication process" (i.e. misconceptions how to fully utilize the tactical tools at disposal and how they translate, not only in isolation but how to apply them holistically), but it could also be that "common sense". Players have that, that is a "mind of their own", as defined by SI, naturally. F'r instance, merely going overload and instructing to "go route one" will not literally cause all of your players to punt it long all the time in the hope that they will hit upon something. If there is a better option near or if players are marked out of the game (or the one forward you stick with is in no space either), or the player just doesn't see that option up-front, he might go a different route. All you do by applying even such extreme instructions in isolation is increasing the likelyhood of such play happening. Similarily, if you read through the patch notes, you will find that players of low calibre are tweaked to be more likely to pick direct routes (likely in particular when being pushed), and if you literally wanted your FB to pass it short all the time, you'd likely also need apply the most extreme instructions that encourage him to do such and make him hughely favor holding possession above anything else. Going a reasonably aggressive mentality/strategy that is meant to get the ball upfield and applying a "pass shorter" team instruction likely won't suffice, a limited full back is obviously the wrong role for this, and you might perhaps even consider going with a more rigid/less expressive setup that limits his freedom in decision making.

Right now I must conclude that you must be exaggerating, as if there would be safe options near, he'd pick them every once in a while rather than hit it "over and over again". Whilst in general you are instructing into a framework set and always tweaked by SI, that sounds a little extreme, honestly...

* which is probably a good reason for that they don't have that huge an influence on play. :-D And they probably should never have.