Tuddur Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, I stopped after that. Not touching it until the next update Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawlore Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The link is easy to see. FM12/11 is much more fluid with more noticeable individual play, there's much less of that indecisive ambling about that makes 13/14 a frustrating experience for many, less blatantly 'in your face' player errors and if you don't set out to deliberately exploit the through balls to forwards pattern the major statistical numbers are more balanced. It's not a better simulation of a football match largely because there aren't enough passes/possessions but it's not at all hard to see why it can be much less frustrating to watch as a highlights package regardless of wins or losses. For my money, and as someone who spent a lot of time with FM12 after not buying FM13, that's a pretty good summation of both sides of the argument. Kudos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies? While I agree with your theory in some respects, in others it's a rather sweeping statement. Personally I found FM12 just as challenging as FM14. I actually find FM14 slightly easier than FM12. I just can't accept the way the games looks in 3D simulation. Forget the football, it doesn't represent human movement a lot of the time. We're told by Cleon (who's guide is fantastic in the TTF), that we should view the 3D ME to get a grasp on how the game is being played out. If this is the case, how do I interpret my CM running backwards, cutting across the path of the opposing player with the ball and doing nothing about it (he might as well say 'hi!' on his way past). There is no way of interpreting this movement. Also, because the ball is like an ice hockey puck, am I to interpret over hit passes as they are seen, or is it because the ball wouldn't stick to a treacle covered pitch made of sellotape? All of these reasons are why viewing FM12 was more pleasurable in my opinion. Of course, I appreciate that FM14 is more sophisticated. But if it is delivered to me in a way which doesn't please my eye, then I won't enjoy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 For my money, and as someone who spent a lot of time with FM12 after not buying FM13, that's a pretty good summation of both sides of the argument. Kudos. Agreed, it's a great explanation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
managerdude_66 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The link is easy to see. FM12/11 is much more fluid with more noticeable individual play, there's much less of that indecisive ambling about that makes 13/14 a frustrating experience for many, less blatantly 'in your face' player errors and if you don't set out to deliberately exploit the through balls to forwards pattern the major statistical numbers are more balanced. It's not a better simulation of a football match largely because there aren't enough passes/possessions but it's not at all hard to see why it can be much less frustrating to watch as a highlights package regardless of wins or losses. This. Exactly! Personally, I found FM 12 far more enjoyable even if it didn't have the "collision detection" system. At present the match engine looks like a bunch of 8th graders fighting over a ball. The ball keeps bobbing here and there. Neither is it visually pleasing nor is it realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooro23 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Direct ME issues aside, maybe part of the frustration is the selection or cut of the highlights. I get much more enjoyment out of the happenings on the pitch while watching it on full match, although this not being very viable time-consuming-wise. Offensively, I can easily detect where things are going wrong, which is much harder to recognize on anything less than "full match" - especially if there's trouble with build-up play before even creating chances. Defensively, on "full match" I can assess defensive flaws earlier than in any highlights mode and don't get surprised as often by defender mistakes, if, for example, he get's in critical situations, that almost create chances for the opposition, when on any highlight mode I only see the actual "**** hits the fan" situations, seemingly out of the blue. That being said, I'd like the highlight modes to have a more intelligent way of picking and cutting scenes to identify issues before it's too late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 This. Exactly! Personally, I found FM 12 far more enjoyable even if it didn't have the "collision detection" system. At present the match engine looks like a bunch of 8th graders fighting over a ball. The ball keeps bobbing here and there. Neither is it visually pleasing nor is it realistic. How can you possibly say this isn't visually pleasing? [video=youtube;AQ_zBFX13zk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ_zBFX13zk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 That being said, I'd like the highlight modes to have a more intelligent way of picking and cutting scenes to identify issues before it's too late. Aye, I don't watch matches in full all the time. Via the time bar however I often rewind the action to a moment a couple seconds before the highlight kicks in. Usually what is not shown is the missed interception that lead to the highlight, or the missed tackle caused by a defender being stretched after an attack had seen him isolated on the back, etc. etc. Doesn't bug me much, as the time bar makes this super easily accessible. But whilst picking out issues is up for interpretation to an extent, there could be an optional highlight mode that would pick this more intelligently indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 How can you possibly say this isn't visually pleasing? [video=youtube;AQ_zBFX13zk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ_zBFX13zk There are certain passages of the play which are good and are pleasing to the eye. The trouble is they are preceded by the casual ambling described earlier. The contrast between the snail paced ambling and the fluid movement shown in this clip is disconcerting and leads to a feeling that the ME is 'all over the place'. Also, in your clip, the players are still moving when their legs are planted. If this keeps up in FM15 it will be frustrating. I'm sick of seeing players slide across the ground on planted feet, all because their movement isn't animated correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The contrast between the snail paced ambling and the fluid movement shown in this clip is disconcerting and leads to a feeling that the ME is 'all over the place'. What 'snail paced ambling'? The first player who had the ball in the clip was shielding it with a defender behind him, waiting for the other players to get into position for the pass. After that, the movement was fluid, and my only annoyance is that I never scored. I see passages of play like this quite regularly, and rarely, if ever notice the ball 'bobbing here and there'. I watch the game with the elevated camera (or 2D sometimes), so I perhaps don't see the animation glitches close up, but still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulayaan786 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi guys i just wanted to know why i cant seem to see the option to disable the in game editor option anymore, my game is up to date and its on 4.2.2 before on 4.2 i was able to select if i wanted to have it enabled or not. Is anyone else facing the same problem were no option comes up to disable it when starting new game ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustavo Pandolfo Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 As far as I'm aware, there were no changes affecting this in 14.2.2, so would just be coincidence in that case. I tried in 3 saves and the injuries ocurred in all 3. Before this patch I had 1 or 2 players injured in my team, after the patch I have 6 or 7. For me that's not a coincidence... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It's our tactics they say [video=youtube_share;091Reqd86kE] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebbo Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It's our tactics they say[video=youtube_share;091Reqd86kE] Mistakes happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I tried in 3 saves and the injuries ocurred in all 3. Before this patch I had 1 or 2 players injured in my team, after the patch I have 6 or 7. For me that's not a coincidence... Injuries weren't touched in either update, so I'm afraid it is just a coincidence whether you choose to believe it or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Woods Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Off topic here Dagenham Dave 1500 odd posts in a year you need to get out more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Mistakes happen. Yes they do, but not the ridiculous amount of times they happen in the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Off topic here Dagenham Dave 1500 odd posts in a year you need to get out more 5 posts a day, at an average of 30 seconds per post equates to under three minutes of my life per day. I'm not sure how my life would benefit more by me being outside for those few minutes a day, but as you said, it's off topic. Having a go at someone's post count is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 5 posts a day, at an average of 30 seconds per post equates to under three minutes of my life per day. I'm not sure how my life would benefit more by me being outside for those few minutes a day, but as you said, it's off topic. Having a go at someone's post count is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum. Plus the time it takes to read all the posts you're responding to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko99 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 its posters like him who have ruined this thread, sit here all day responding to every post. I often check this thread to see if PaulC has given any updates on how the new patch is going, and all I see is the same few names shooting down peoples posts. if they thought the game was so great they wouldn't need to be here and would be playing the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Yes they do, but not the ridiculous amount of times they happen in the game Were you just on the way to log this in the Bugs Forum? Couldn't see it there yet, but I may have missed it. If there is one thing more frustrating than a mod constantly asking for potential Bugs to be logged, then it is a poster who repeatedly raises issues in a feedback thread but fails to log them in the Bugs Forum. That goalkeeping decision is bad, and I'd be annoyed if it happened to me. If you log it with a .pkm there's a chance it can be fixed. If you don't, it might not be fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulayaan786 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi guys i just wanted to know why i cant seem to see the option to disable the in game editor option anymore, my game is up to date and its on 4.2.2 before on 4.2 i was able to select if i wanted to have it enabled or not. Is anyone else facing the same problem were no option comes up to disable it when starting new game ? i also tried it with the default skin but still no option appear to select deselect in game editor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 What 'snail paced ambling'? The first player who had the ball in the clip was shielding it with a defender behind him, waiting for the other players to get into position for the pass. After that, the movement was fluid, and my only annoyance is that I never scored. I see passages of play like this quite regularly, and rarely, if ever notice the ball 'bobbing here and there'. I watch the game with the elevated camera (or 2D sometimes), so I perhaps don't see the animation glitches close up, but still. Come on Dave, read it again. I said clips like this are usually preceded by the casual ambling. This is the snail placed ambling I was referring to when comparing it to the fluid movement in YOUR clip! I didn't say there was snail paced ambling in your clip! If you haven't seen any of this casual strolling through the middle, then I need a copy of your game please. Either that or it doesn't affect FMC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Sorry, I read it as you were specifically referring to the clip that was posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Were you just on the way to log this in the Bugs Forum? Couldn't see it there yet, but I may have missed it.If there is one thing more frustrating than a mod constantly asking for potential Bugs to be logged, then it is a poster who repeatedly raises issues in a feedback thread but fails to log them in the Bugs Forum. That goalkeeping decision is bad, and I'd be annoyed if it happened to me. If you log it with a .pkm there's a chance it can be fixed. If you don't, it might not be fixed. I will log it, even when several people has already done so and kept been doing so for the past months. The thing is people might start wondering that an enterprise that needs its customers to have a clue what's wrong with the product it sells to those same customers is.... just let's say odd, not to say worse. All of this without a single apology and with some insults from mods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_lcfc Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It's our tactics they say[video=youtube_share;091Reqd86kE] Tbh, Id be fuming if it happened to me, but the attacker is running up on the keepers blind side, the keeper thought he had more time so he took a touch. I presume he then played to his managers instructions by playing out of defence, where the attacker pops up, nicks the ball and picks up his healthy goal bonus. Like I say, annoying, but I wouldnt have said its a bug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flohrinho Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I will log it, even when several people has already done so and kept been doing so for the past months. The thing is people might start wondering that an enterprise that needs its customers to have a clue what's wrong with the product it sells to those same customers is.... just let's say odd, not to say worse. All of this without a single apology and with some insults from mods. I think that's a bit unfair. Firstly FM has always been in part a community project as well as the product of SI and Sega so why shouldn't we help out finding bugs as well, I mean it's not like they are firing their QA team and just let us do the testing. Secondly the ME has so many possible scenarios in which bugs can occur that with a staff of 10-20 testers it will be almost impossible to find them all and even if they do often there isn't enough time to fix them all or some of them get burried under more important bugs. Of course we would like to have a bug free product but not even Blizzard manages to get this done and they usually take 6-9 years to make a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think that's a bit unfair. Firstly FM has always been in part a community project as well as the product of SI and Sega so why shouldn't we help out finding bugs as well, I mean it's not like they are firing their QA team and just let us do the testing. Secondly the ME has so many possible scenarios in which bugs can occur that with a staff of 10-20 testers it will be almost impossible to find them all and even if they do often there isn't enough time to fix them all or some of them get burried under more important bugs. Thank you for a welcome dose of reality. petergoddard - thank you for logging the .pkm in the Bugs Forum. It was a shame you felt it had to be accompanied with some snide comments, but I have deleted them accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Tbh, Id be fuming if it happened to me, but the attacker is running up on the keepers blind side, the keeper thought he had more time so he took a touch. I presume he then played to his managers instructions by playing out of defence, where the attacker pops up, nicks the ball and picks up his healthy goal bonus.Like I say, annoying, but I wouldnt have said its a bug The bug is not the event by itself, the bug is the amount of times that event repeats itself. And we can be a little more specific: the GK is Helton from FC Porto and if anyone knows Helton also knows that one of the strongest attributes of him is coming out of the goal and playing with his feet. Never after 7 or 8 seasons playing in FC Porto did his playing with the feet produced a single error that might had lead to a goal. If FM pretends to be a sim, then it has to simulate real players, their goods and bads. It seems it doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think that's a bit unfair. Firstly FM has always been in part a community project as well as the product of SI and Sega so why shouldn't we help out finding bugs as well, I mean it's not like they are firing their QA team and just let us do the testing. Secondly the ME has so many possible scenarios in which bugs can occur that with a staff of 10-20 testers it will be almost impossible to find them all and even if they do often there isn't enough time to fix them all or some of them get burried under more important bugs. Of course we would like to have a bug free product but not even Blizzard manages to get this done and they usually take 6-9 years to make a game. Well, I've said it before, I'll say it again: given the complexity of the game is completly undertandble that a few bugs would come up. There is no perfection. But these are not just a few bugs are they (even after considering that a lot of complains are not bugs) ??? Also it's not like that these are bugs so obscure that testers can not see them. And SI released a beta version for people to test and present problems... and with did and the problems remains. Then we were presented with a patch (ok, nice), and a patch (ok, nice), and another patch, and another, and another, and another. And patch after patch, month after month we are told "It's your tactics", "be constructive". Well, right now I'm not feeling constructive for something I paid and that I would expect to have fun with for a all season and not half of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Sorry, I read it as you were specifically referring to the clip that was posted. Don't worry, these boards are hardly the easiest place to communicate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PratoJoe Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, I've said it before, I'll say it again: given the complexity of the game is completly undertandble that a few bugs would come up. There is no perfection. But these are not just a few bugs are they (even after considering that a lot of complains are not bugs) ??? Also it's not like that these are bugs so obscure that testers can not see them. And SI released a beta version for people to test and present problems... and with did and the problems remains. Then we were presented with a patch (ok, nice), and a patch (ok, nice), and another patch, and another, and another, and another. And patch after patch, month after month we are told "It's your tactics", "be constructive". Well, right now I'm not feeling constructive for something I paid and that I would expect to have fun with for a all season and not half of the season. It's hard don't say that he is right. Got the game by three months, still have numerous bugs that for someone make the product unenjoyable. This game live 12 months, 3 months (and still we don't see the light) it's not a short period of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPAgusta Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 5 posts a day, at an average of 30 seconds per post equates to under three minutes of my life per day. I'm not sure how my life would benefit more by me being outside for those few minutes a day, but as you said, it's off topic. Having a go at someone's post count is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum. Keep on belittling and criticizing someone else's post or complain is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPAgusta Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It's our tactics they say[video=youtube_share;091Reqd86kE] It happens to me a lot of time as well. I gave up setting instruction "distribute to defenders" for GK as it can lead to blunder like in your video even when I love to play possession football, instead I just let the GK kick the ball long. Just my 2 cents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Keep on belittling and criticizing someone else's post or complain is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum. ^ ^ ^ Quite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Keep on belittling and criticizing someone else's post or complain is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum. What is it you're doing here then? How ironic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 That could be game logics, it could also be something being lost in that "communication process" (i.e. misconceptions how to fully utilize the tactical tools at disposal and how they translate, not only in isolation but how to apply them holistically), but it could also be that "common sense". Players have that, that is a "mind of their own", as defined by SI, naturally. F'r instance, merely going overload and instructing to "go route one" will not literally cause all of your players to punt it long all the time in the hope that they will hit upon something. If there is a better option near or if players are marked out of the game (or the one forward you stick with is in no space either), or the player just doesn't see that option up-front, he might go a different route. All you do by applying even such extreme instructions in isolation is increasing the likelyhood of such play happening. Similarily, if you read through the patch notes, you will find that players of low calibre are tweaked to be more likely to pick direct routes (likely in particular when being pushed), and if you literally wanted your FB to pass it short all the time, you'd likely also need apply the most extreme instructions that encourage him to do such and make him hughely favor holding possession above anything else. Going a reasonably aggressive mentality/strategy that is meant to get the ball upfield and applying a "pass shorter" team instruction likely won't suffice, a limited full back is obviously the wrong role for this, and you might perhaps even consider going with a more rigid/less expressive setup that limits his freedom in decision making. Right now I must conclude that you must be exaggerating, as if there would be safe options near, he'd pick them every once in a while rather than hit it "over and over again". Whilst in general you are instructing into a framework set and always tweaked by SI, that sounds a little extreme, honestly... * which is probably a good reason for that they don't have that huge an influence on play. :-D And they probably should never have. See, that's making a lot of (wrong) assumptions and is missing the point of my post as well. Which is that while taking the safest option is common sense, it's also common sense to not keep giving the ball away in the exact same manner but try and look for ways to adapt. I play a very specific system, very rigid and heavily encourage slow build up through shorter passing across the board. The full back has no issue passing normally under any other circumstance, apart from when getting the ball from the GK. If this is down to something missing in the communication process then the game is doing absolutely nothing to give me an indication what. The end result is the same - I'm trying to tell my player to do something that I can see is possible but I'm not getting a response, instead I see a repetitive pattern that looks mechanical and robotic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Since I don't see any thread to post this, I would like to ask where does it says at forum rules that moderators are allowed to edit, change and censor our posts ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beestonite Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Since I don't see any thread to post this, I would like to ask where does it says at forum rules that moderators are allowed to edit, change and censor our posts ? I think it comes under the 'common sense' part doesn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Since I don't see any thread to post this, I would like to ask where does it says at forum rules that moderators are allowed to edit, change and censor our posts ? Do you understand what a moderator is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I understand that a mod is someone that answers and elucidates users about the game and aplies forum rules. Aplying forum rules has nothing to do with editing, changing and censoring posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I understand that a mod is someone that answers and elucidates users about the game and aplies forum rules. Aplying forum rules has nothing to do with editing, changing and censoring posts. TBH rather than edit your post he should've just deleted it instead and told you why, there's no need to edit posts to make it look like you've edited yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 TBH rather than edit your post he should've just deleted it instead and told you why, there's no need to edit posts to make it look like you've edited yourself. He'd made a bug report, which is the only reason the entire post wasn't deleted by him. He did however tell him why it was edited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 He'd made a bug report, which is the only reason the entire post wasn't deleted by him. He did however tell him why it was edited. Fair enough, it's obviously annoyed him enough to go on about it though, maybe a wee PM explaining why you edited his post might've saved any confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Fair enough, it's obviously annoyed him enough to go on about it though, maybe a wee PM explaining why you edited his post might've saved any confusion. Since I didnt edit it, no PM from me. He got a reply on this very thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petergoddard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 and it seems the Contact Us option doesn't work, for two times I've used it and there was no response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'm out of this conversation, nowt to do with me, I was only trying to help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'm out of this conversation, nowt to do with me, I was only trying to help I know you were Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 and it seems the Contact Us option doesn't work, for two times I've used it and there was no response. Ah - I'm the "he" in question aren't I? You posted a Bug Report and littered it with snide comments which served no purpose within the context of a Bug Report. After editing it, I commented in here to that effect last night, and in the "Edit" section in the Bugs Report itself. Applying forum rules has an awful lot to do with editing, changing and censoring posts, especially if the editing and changing (same thing) is required in order to make that post civil. EDIT - the Bug Report raised has had an official response too: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/383367-Reviewed-14.2.2.-GK-poor-decision Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preveza Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Good read on this page I must admit. I agree with foreameuss but also the contrasting views. What I do agree with also is the ball spin in the ME. Whether it is a through ball, lob pass etc, I dont see much backspin or much variation with the ball movement once it touches the pitch. It mostly just flies forward like an ice puck. This is something SI definitely has to work on imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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