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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

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In regards attempts on goal there are certainly I wide variety of attempts, FM 13 I thought was very good and FM 14 is just as good, except it has a problem.

1. it’s next to impossible to score one on ones

2. it’s next to impossible to score from long range, the keepers save everything

3. it’s almost impossible to score with headers except from corners because they all seem to go over the bar, whether that’s from twelve yards or two.

The only redeeming aspect to these problems is that it affects both sides; if there are super keepers then it’s all of them.

Just started my third season with Luton now in division one but it looks like my problems at the end of last season look set to go on, played Millwall in my first friendly that finished 1-1 and I was happy with that, then 3 wins against non league opposition hurrah, and the a match against 2nd division side Exeter, oh dear, lost 1-0 despite. 61% possession, 26 shots to 9, 12 to 3 on target, 2 to 1 CCCs, 7 to 2 HCs, 12 shots saved to 2 shots saved, it could be a one off but after the end of last season I doubt it. I’m expected to battle against relegation this year which is a good job really.

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The issue with keepers making too many saves comes from the problem of too many shots, nothing to do with the AI keeper being too powerful, im my screen shot above Chelsea had 17 shots on target with no goals, which means 17 saves from my keeper, but if 15 of them are straight at him he is hardly having a wonder game, he is just making basic saves.

Pretty much what I said further up the page when the discussion changed to the keepers.

I have seen in my game keepers saving some 16+ shots which is excessively high, it is just not 1 game but multiple games over a season.

In real life pundits and fans praise a keeper if he makes 5 or 6 good saves.

I think it is just a knock on effect with trying to lower the goals being scored as before the update there did seem to be a lot of high scoring games.

I also think that most people appreciate how complicated the ME is and one small change can have an effect on many things, I am also sure that Paul and his team are hard at work to sort it.

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When all is said and done though, when your team scores an 84th minute winner like this using your counter tactic, you just have to stop and pat yourself on the back. :D

[video=youtube;3bqx8z8TRc0]

I dream of scoring this goal

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Pretty much what I said further up the page when the discussion changed to the keepers.

Yeah but i had to say it again :D

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Most direct free kicks in this version seem to be taken as if they were ordinary shots from that position, rather than curling, placed, dead ball shots. And the conversion rate seems so low that they're just not exciting, or scary. The worst, or best, that will happen is you'll hit the bar.

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Had the game for 48 hours now and I'm loving it.

Hate seeing people moaning like babies on here.

The patch will be out when its ready. SI should not rush it because if they release it in a rush and its not right then you guys will moan more. Give them chance.

The game is not unplayable like some of you have said, yes there are bugs but not game breakers at all. Report them in the normal manor and they will be looked into.

Its NOT Fifa! Fifa is rubbish! Its like comparing apples and banana's

Anyone reading these forums please don't look at the negatives. If your a football fan you'll love it! Millions have bought the game and there is only a few hundred of less moaning on here.

Well done everyone involved as SI! :applause:

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Also I like the revamped UI, Just wondering if there is a way to stop the team filter from disappearing in the squad page?

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The issue with keepers making too many saves comes from the problem of too many shots, nothing to do with the AI keeper being too powerful, im my screen shot above Chelsea had 17 shots on target with no goals, which means 17 saves from my keeper, but if 15 of them are straight at him he is hardly having a wonder game, he is just making basic saves.

So far in my other save i can think of one game where the AI keeper had a blinder and no matter what i couldnt score, but that can happen, i can think of 2 games where my keeper finished with an 8, again tho, it doesnt point to a superkeeper syndrome, just a player having a good game.

Yes I know. It's much more complicated than that.

And yet... 17 saves, clean sheet... If I was the manager, and if my keeper made 17 saves in 90 minutes, I would build him a statue outside the stadium. I personally never saw a keeper getting a clean sheet AND making more than 7-8 saves. Clean sheet and more than 10 saves? That's what I would call a "super keeper". He could be compared to a striker scoring 5 goals.

With such quantity, quality really isn't important: first of all, if they were so strong to dominate the game like that, they should have been so strong to score al least a couple of goals. Secondly, even if they kept passing the ball to the keeper instead of shooting, sooner or later the keeper would have dropped the ball. Literally.

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Yes I know. It's much more complicated than that.

And yet... 17 saves, clean sheet... If I was the manager, and if my keeper made 17 saves in 90 minutes, I would build him a statue outside the stadium. I personally never saw a keeper getting a clean sheet AND making more than 7-8 saves. Clean sheet and more than 10 saves? That's what I would call a "super keeper". He could be compared to a striker scoring 5 goals.

With such quantity, quality really isn't important: first of all, if they were so strong to dominate the game like that, they should have been so strong to score al least a couple of goals. Secondly, even if they kept passing the ball to the keeper instead of shooting, sooner or later the keeper would have dropped the ball. Literally.

I dont think you understand my point. If 15 out of the 17 shots are straight into his arms, then there is no super keeper. Clearly there are too many shots in the ME, but a great chunk of these shots are very poor and straight at the keeper, shots that if he didnt save he wouldnt be in football.

Quality is the most important fact here, if said keeper saved 15 one on ones, or made 15 heroic saves i would agree, but the keepers are not doing that in game, they are just making more routine saves than they should have too.

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The issue with keepers making too many saves comes from the problem of too many shots, nothing to do with the AI keeper being too powerful, im my screen shot above Chelsea had 17 shots on target with no goals, which means 17 saves from my keeper, but if 15 of them are straight at him he is hardly having a wonder game, he is just making basic saves.

So far in my other save i can think of one game where the AI keeper had a blinder and no matter what i couldnt score, but that can happen, i can think of 2 games where my keeper finished with an 8, again tho, it doesnt point to a superkeeper syndrome, just a player having a good game.

Just because someone has 17 shots on target does not mean your keeper made 17 saves.

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Just because someone has 17 shots on target does not mean your keeper made 17 saves.

It was my game the screen shot is from.

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Personally I am getting the most enjoyment out of the ME by suspending my disbelief slightly in terms of what the animations are indicating. Keepers come under this category for me because they are always showing off for the cameras, and trying to make easy saves look hard.

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It was my game the screen shot is from.

Aware of that, you just said Chelsea had 17 shots on target, which means 17 saves from my keeper. I'm just saying it doesn't mean that. 16 of them could have been blocked by a defender.

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Cross check with his level of knowledge about the club. Also see equivalent ratings from your other staff (think you should be able to do this from the individual player's coaching report).

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I dont think you understand my point. If 15 out of the 17 shots are straight into his arms, then there is no super keeper. Clearly there are too many shots in the ME, but a great chunk of these shots are very poor and straight at the keeper, shots that if he didnt save he wouldnt be in football.

Quality is the most important fact here, if said keeper saved 15 one on ones, or made 15 heroic saves i would agree, but the keepers are not doing that in game, they are just making more routine saves than they should have too.

I don't think we are saying different things: there are too many shots and "just the right amount" of goals (probably). If we agree on this, then every keeper, from a statistical point of view, is over performing, and that's what I called, perhaps simplistically, super keepers.

I remember last year (FM 13) the "shoots from distance is the new black" ME. A patch was released and the problem was solved, but the total of shots for every match was like 15 (summing both sides). Still, the final scores were pretty realistic, so in a way every striker was a super striker, because their shots/goals ratio was unrealistically high.

That's why I said I liked the Beta much more than the Final Release: too many shots AND too many goals. It made sense, somehow. I'd certainly prefer that over a match engine where 17 saves from a keeper in 90 minutes could be described as "just a player having a good game"...

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I don't think we are saying different things: there are too many shots and "just the right amount" of goals (probably). If we agree on this, then every keeper, from a statistical point of view, is over performing, and that's what I called, perhaps simplistically, super keepers.

I remember last year (FM 13) the "shoots from distance is the new black" ME. A patch was released and the problem was solved, but the total of shots for every match was like 15 (summing both sides). Still, the final scores were pretty realistic, so in a way every striker was a super striker, because their shots/goals ratio was unrealistically high.

That's why I said I liked the Beta much more than the Final Release: too many shots AND too many goals. It made sense, somehow. I'd certainly prefer that over a match engine where 17 saves from a keeper in 90 minutes could be described as "just a player having a good game"...

Again, its got nothing to do with the keepers. If i throw 100 balls into your arms id expect you to catch the ball 100 times, the QUALITY of the shots against the keeper is what is important when it comes to speaking about superkeepers, not the quantity. The number of weak rubbish shots is the issue, not the keepers.

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I will start by admitting that I have not read the previous 24 pages...

So I will go on with the positives:

The graphics in the match engine are very pretty.

Now that's out of the way, let's get down to the important stuff. The possible improvements. ;)

My goalkeeper is holding the ball in his hands. He wants to get the ball to a defender 3 meters away. He kicks it to them. Why? No good reason for this exists in this world. No tactical instruction in the world should make this happen. Fix it.

My goalkeeper is starting play after a wide shot. My central defender and my anchor man is standing holding hands. Not literally, but close enough to do it if they wanted to. Why would this ever happen?

Free kicks hit the bar or the goalkeeper gives a rebound. Striker scores. Goal disallowed for offside 100% of the time. Fix it.

Defender has huge advantage over attacking player in the race to the ball. But makes an abrupt halt to allow the opposing player to get to the ball. As in "Whew, I thought I was having a heart attack, but turned out I was just a little tired. Good thing I stopped to make sure though, even if the other team scored because of it"

Dominating possession away from home is tricky, no matter who you play and what team you field...

The other team plays a pass to nowhere that is on it's way across the line. Defender races to save it and promptly plays it back to the other team for a goal against. Never happens IRL. Why in FM 14?

Attacking fullback has ball inside opposing teams penalty area. Passes 45 degrees. Textbook, right? Except he passes it 45 degrees to my holding midfielder 40 meters from goal... And this happens regardless of team instruction (retain possession, direct play, attacking, defending, etc). It's all the rage, everyone is doing it...

So the really interesting stuff which I understand is really really complicated and difficult to fix...

My star strikers (Van Persie, Rooney, Chicarito) can't score a sitter to save their lives. While Rafael, Shaw, Fabio and whoever else playing central midfield or further down the pitch scores 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 "good" chances. I know if you just tune the success rate of my strikers I will beat everyone outside the top 4 between 5-1 and 10-1 (because if you dominate possession the opposition needs only one chance to score, it's the law). The reason for this is that the match engine is unable to simulate a situation where your star studded team is unable to create good chances. The solution is make the main offensive players have a stupidly low success rate in front of goal.

I find my United unable to put games to bed because no matter how many and how good chances we create, my strikers refuse to score sitters. I still win the league, but it is incredibly frustrating to watch, because there is no solution. Why change a tactic that produces 3-5 100% chances per game when you have amazing finishers on the end of those chances?

This issue will be incredibly hard to fix, because it is such a complicated issue. I understand this.

With all this said, I find the game to be really good. Just a little frustrating to watch the games is all... Especially since the animations do not truly reflect what is happening (stats compared to what I saw, etc).

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Have people had success having their DoF negotiate good sales or bring in players at decent prices?

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Cross check with his level of knowledge about the club. Also see equivalent ratings from your other staff (think you should be able to do this from the individual player's coaching report).

How do you check his level of knowledge about the club?

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How do you check his level of knowledge about the club?

It should be on one of the tabs in his profile. I think it is a series of horizontal bar graphs.

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Had the game since few days

So far i like it, didnt had any issues, crossing my fingers.

The 3d animation is better, the game is cleaner to sum it all, it's better than fm2013.

It's a good game. Good job SI

Except with IGE Huge disapointement...

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Most direct free kicks in this version seem to be taken as if they were ordinary shots from that position, rather than curling, placed, dead ball shots. And the conversion rate seems so low that they're just not exciting, or scary. The worst, or best, that will happen is you'll hit the bar.

Also noticed this constantly, really hope this is addressed because it makes free kicks very tedious.

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It should be on one of the tabs in his profile. I think it is a series of horizontal bar graphs.

My assistant's is full..... There's something wrong here, right?

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Have people had success having their DoF negotiate good sales or bring in players at decent prices?

Yes. I send my DoF to buy players all the time, and am happy to let him offload my transfer listed players.

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I use my DoF to ship out reserves player I no longer want, and sometimes to loan out players whose futures I don't particularly care about. He does fine at both.

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Why has a header from just inside the penalty area (Okay, it's a decent header...) just beaten a 45 yard lob and a long run followed by a chip over the keeper for goal of the season?

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My assistant's is full..... There's something wrong here, right?

Not necessarily. There is the chance that while the player has a high CA, his attributes aren't distributed in a way that would lead to a good performance. This is even more true when you take into account possible tactical variations.

Perhaps there are other factors other than the Judging stats. Maybe his tactical knowledge is low? (Don't know if this would affect things but it is a possibility.)

You should crosscheck against the opinions of the other staff you have (ignore the exact rating of 3 or 4 stars for example, and just focus on the rating relative to each player. Player x is below player y who is below player z, etc. If your assman is putting the squad in a hierarchy of ability that is notably different to the general consensus of your other staff then there might be a problem.

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Yes. I send my DoF to buy players all the time, and am happy to let him offload my transfer listed players.

The only problem I have had with DoFs selling players is that they seem to disregard whether the offer is cash up front or over a period of time; in all cases I prefer the former. Perhaps there is a setting I have missed to control this.

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Why are fourth division players able to cover longer distances than professionals? http://www.pic-upload.de/view-21253356/dist.png.html (the Cup was fully simulated in full match details). The difference between league levels wasn't huge in FM (and I have no real world statistics to compare to), but it was there. The lower you went down the tiers, the less distance top players covered per 90 minutes. Might sound a bit anal, sure, but touches like these are what makes/made this believable, after all. :D

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Not necessarily. There is the chance that while the player has a high CA, his attributes aren't distributed in a way that would lead to a good performance. This is even more true when you take into account possible tactical variations.

Perhaps there are other factors other than the Judging stats. Maybe his tactical knowledge is low? (Don't know if this would affect things but it is a possibility.)

You should crosscheck against the opinions of the other staff you have (ignore the exact rating of 3 or 4 stars for example, and just focus on the rating relative to each player. Player x is below player y who is below player z, etc. If your assman is putting the squad in a hierarchy of ability that is notably different to the general consensus of your other staff then there might be a problem.

All of this makes sense, but the odd thing is his judgement seems to be out for pretty much all of my players....

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"Beats the keeper"

- Can't stand this. In previous versions if you beat the keeper you scored. Now if you beat the keeper you're either hitting the bar, the post, or shooting wide. Really gets my hopes up when my striker darts into the box, beats the defenders, shoots, beats the keeper, and......goes wide. Why change the text commentary like that?

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Yes. I send my DoF to buy players all the time, and am happy to let him offload my transfer listed players.

Does he buy players using a positive payment scheme or he pays up front? Do we get to see his transfer offer details?

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Again, its got nothing to do with the keepers. If i throw 100 balls into your arms id expect you to catch the ball 100 times, the QUALITY of the shots against the keeper is what is important when it comes to speaking about superkeepers, not the quantity. The number of weak rubbish shots is the issue, not the keepers.

No. The shots/goals ratio is the issue. You can call it "weak rubbish shots", I can call it superkeepers, but it doesn't make any difference.

Plus, I also wrote that the goalkeepers in the game block too many shots. Many goalies criticized the new "high-tech" balls, whose trajectories are very hard to predict, so they don't feel at ease stopping the ball "the old way" http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/fouroaks/fouroaks1006/fouroaks100600037/7161392-soccer-goalkeeper-with-the-ball-safely-in-his-arms.jpg they very much prefer punching it away. I hope you understand what I mean.

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It makes quite a big difference as those are two completely different things.

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Yes. I send my DoF to buy players all the time, and am happy to let him offload my transfer listed players.

Are you responding to my question?

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Aware of that, you just said Chelsea had 17 shots on target, which means 17 saves from my keeper. I'm just saying it doesn't mean that. 16 of them could have been blocked by a defender.

Isn't blocked shots a separate stat in the game?

However 16 could have been daisycutters the keeper saved with his arse so your point is still valid.

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As someone who watches most games on Full, I can't resist pointing something out regarding the precious 'clear cut chances' that are so often pronounced as the be-all and end-all statistic for tactical evaluation. Can anyone guess what all of the following situations have in common?

231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00001.jpg231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00002.jpg

231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00003.jpg231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00004.jpg

231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00005.jpg231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00006.jpg

231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00009.jpg231670_screenshots_2013-11-06_00008.jpg

If you said that FM14's Match Engine doesn't consider any of these to be CCCs, you'd be right. Yes, even that last one. And this just a handful of those I've come across. The ME isn't very good at showing off what's happening under the hood. Or else it's just plain bad at knowing what 'clear cut' is. Or both.

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And are you 100% that these are all non-CCCs? Seeing as you play on full match I would assume that you are sure, but could there be the chance that the stat for CCCs isn't updated until after the highlight has concluded? Although again seeing as you play on full match I suppose this isn't likely to be the case.

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Very odd....I am playing with morecombe. Sky 2 and had 3 games in 7 days with very few players. I was playing york a team that should beat my first team squad most days anyway, but today I felt better chances with my next game and sort of conceded this game in my mind and put in all secondary and youth players. But too my astonishment my team won by two goals. One was a long shot by an inexperienced CM and the other from a run at the goal by a youth winger that has at highest a 10 for any of his current stats. As I watched this game only on key highlights i noticed my players outplaying the york team and thought ok maybe they are complacent due to them probably having a very positive chance of winning, but I have seen this on the flip side when i play my chelsea save and notice crap teams beating me with the same unusual win. This seems backwards to me regardless of what the moderators say on this site that complacency and pressure and so on have this nebulous rule over the outcome of the match. On the pitch througout an entire game I should see a better team realizing they are sucking heel and turn themselves around....because they are better and some sort of pride taking over at some point. So I do find this unrealistic my win with morecambe and my losses with chelsea as being possible of course but more unlikely than whats happening I think far too frequently.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=192633224

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/506947022955959342/B2700C3582A74C328B088C2880FE79679D6FC737/

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Did they finish 3rd in their Champs league group?

No, I'm at the September international fixtures and they're in both from the start. I guess the AI thinks Barcelona can win both.

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I was playing the Financial Storm challenge, and choosed an instant result, given the fact that i needed just 1 point, while playing away, to win the title, look at this :

ao3s.png

kcoq.png

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Aye it will be ready when its ready. As I said the other day SI have been very quiet since the full release or since they got the feedback anyway and it's a good thing. Means they're busy trying to fix the issues. That or they are just getting drunk laughing at us all ;)

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I now can't continue my game without having to reload an old version. My DoF made an offer for a player on the same day I got a transfer embargo. The game now won't let me continue without offering a contract. But it wont let me do that because of embargo. I can't withdraw the transfer bid either.

Any ideas?

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I now can't continue my game without having to reload an old version. My DoF made an offer for a player on the same day I got a transfer embargo. The game now won't let me continue without offering a contract. But it wont let me do that because of embargo. I can't withdraw the transfer bid either.

Any ideas?

Holiday to the next day?

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The only problem I'm having is that there seem to be issues with player ratings.

Had one where a defender made 1 foul and an interception in a 1-0 loss yet got a 5.7 rating or something absurd.

Full backs seem to have rating problems too. Guess that is being looked at though.

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Have people had success having their DoF negotiate good sales or bring in players at decent prices?

I could have sold Jack Wilshere for £30 million, which isn't awful I guess? And I could have bought Sergio Aguero for £28 million. That's a small bargain according to his valuation. Those are also the only two players I've been able to buy for less or sell for more than their valuation.

The biggest failing seems to be young players. I've never been able to sign a young player for anything close to a realistic price. Through my first season, Wesley Said and Yaya Sanogo had pretty similar career arcs in France; good results at the U19 level coupled with serious leg injuries. Sanogo moved to Arsenal last summer on a free. Said cost me £12.5 million. That's silly. And it doesn't match reality.

Chelsea brought in four prospects in the last window. They cost an average of £4.04 million, distorted by Marco van Ginkel, who cost £8.27 million and had made almost a hundred appearances for his previous club. Remove him and the average price drops to £2.48 million

Defending NextGen Series champions Aston Villa acquired five prospects. They averaged £2.18 million, with a high of £4.14 million.

Manchester United bought one prospect for £1.54 million.

Schalke bought two prospects for a combined £5.32 million, split pretty evenly.

Napoli bought three prospects, one for an undisclosed fee. One cost £6.6 million, the other £880,000. The more expensive of the two, Duvan Zapata, is 22 - so barely a prospect anymore - and had already made more than a hundred appearances in South America.

Marseille bought five prospects, one for an undisclosed fee. Florian Thauvin cost £15 million, because he's an 18 year old attacking midfielder who'd already made nearly 50 appearances in Ligue 1. The other four cost an average of £4.2 million.

Ajax brought in four prospects. Two were for undisclosed fees. The other two cost an average of £3 million.

Milan bought four prospects, two for undisclosed fees. The other two cost just over £2 million.

Barcelona bought two, despite having their renowned youth academy. They cost an average of about £800,000.

I know there are examples like Lucas Digne and Marquinhos, who cost PSG a combined £41 million. At the time of their transfers, both were regular starters for top-flight clubs in and around European competition despite not yet being 20. That's rare, and anomalous. Those players, like Thauvin, should be expensive. It's the other ones that right now are incredibly overvalued. I get that it's a deliberate design decision, but it doesn't make sense. It's not realistic and breaks immersion. Since it's nearly impossible to find a bargain, there's very little point in searching for one, and that's half the fun.

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I will start by admitting that I have not read the previous 24 pages...

So I will go on with the positives:

The graphics in the match engine are very pretty.

Now that's out of the way, let's get down to the important stuff. The possible improvements. ;)

My goalkeeper is holding the ball in his hands. He wants to get the ball to a defender 3 meters away. He kicks it to them. Why? No good reason for this exists in this world. No tactical instruction in the world should make this happen. Fix it.

My goalkeeper is starting play after a wide shot. My central defender and my anchor man is standing holding hands. Not literally, but close enough to do it if they wanted to. Why would this ever happen?

Free kicks hit the bar or the goalkeeper gives a rebound. Striker scores. Goal disallowed for offside 100% of the time. Fix it.

Defender has huge advantage over attacking player in the race to the ball. But makes an abrupt halt to allow the opposing player to get to the ball. As in "Whew, I thought I was having a heart attack, but turned out I was just a little tired. Good thing I stopped to make sure though, even if the other team scored because of it"

Dominating possession away from home is tricky, no matter who you play and what team you field...

The other team plays a pass to nowhere that is on it's way across the line. Defender races to save it and promptly plays it back to the other team for a goal against. Never happens IRL. Why in FM 14?

Attacking fullback has ball inside opposing teams penalty area. Passes 45 degrees. Textbook, right? Except he passes it 45 degrees to my holding midfielder 40 meters from goal... And this happens regardless of team instruction (retain possession, direct play, attacking, defending, etc). It's all the rage, everyone is doing it...

So the really interesting stuff which I understand is really really complicated and difficult to fix...

My star strikers (Van Persie, Rooney, Chicarito) can't score a sitter to save their lives. While Rafael, Shaw, Fabio and whoever else playing central midfield or further down the pitch scores 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 "good" chances. I know if you just tune the success rate of my strikers I will beat everyone outside the top 4 between 5-1 and 10-1 (because if you dominate possession the opposition needs only one chance to score, it's the law). The reason for this is that the match engine is unable to simulate a situation where your star studded team is unable to create good chances. The solution is make the main offensive players have a stupidly low success rate in front of goal.

I find my United unable to put games to bed because no matter how many and how good chances we create, my strikers refuse to score sitters. I still win the league, but it is incredibly frustrating to watch, because there is no solution. Why change a tactic that produces 3-5 100% chances per game when you have amazing finishers on the end of those chances?

This issue will be incredibly hard to fix, because it is such a complicated issue. I understand this.

With all this said, I find the game to be really good. Just a little frustrating to watch the games is all... Especially since the animations do not truly reflect what is happening (stats compared to what I saw, etc).

Some interesting issues there some of which I have not seen in my bug lists yet. So if you are able to log any of them in the bugs forum we may indeed be able to fix them!

As someone who watches most games on Full, I can't resist pointing something out regarding the precious 'clear cut chances' that are so often pronounced as the be-all and end-all statistic for tactical evaluation. Can anyone guess what all of the following situations have in common?

If you said that FM14's Match Engine doesn't consider any of these to be CCCs, you'd be right. Yes, even that last one. And this just a handful of those I've come across. The ME isn't very good at showing off what's happening under the hood. Or else it's just plain bad at knowing what 'clear cut' is. Or both.

If you can log the pkm ( match ) files with the times of each of these in the bugs forum we can assess each example. Apologies if you have already.

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