The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread: Thank you, Sir Alex

[tomtuck01]

Were all in agreement that Ferguson & his backroom team did a brilliant job over the last 26 years.

Were all in agreement that Moyes & his backroom team did a brilliant job at Everton the last 10 years.

Yet the minute he brings people he clearly works well with to his new job it's a mistake? Ther will a handing over period between replacement staff. It's not like he's just going to bin them off without finding out their history & any future plans/systems in place. There's nothing to suggest Moyes would be able to work well with the current backroom staff so I'd rather he brought his own team in.

This, every day of the week.

New manager brings in own staff to replace old managers staff shocker!

[Pangaea]

That is fair enough, but it doesn't negate that Nani is our best winger, even last season when he barely played. I think, or at least hope, that a part of the reason he gets so much criticism is that we all know at some level he can do better. Much the same as with Rooney this season. He played well too, but we know what he is capable of, and the same with Nani. When they don't manage to get that out as often as we'd like (every minute of every season ), they get heavily criticised. We know Young is cack and won't ever get better so although he's been consistently crap since two months after his debut, he usually gets away from criticism.

We can compare players to a young Ronaldo all day long, but the chances of another player in the current generation turning out like him are slim to none, never mind one of ours. Naturally I hope he becomes a great player for us, but if he becomes as good as Nani he will have done well.

[RSB]

Also SAF just never put faith in Nani plus the anecdotes from the likes of Bebe, Ando & Rafael seem to hint that the manager used to go quite overboard in telling him off and singling him out for criticism.

He was injured half the season and still looked our best winger in his fleeting appearances. Madrid & Chelsea in the league cup will count against him but that is part of the package plus Zaha is just as frustrating. His routine involves giving the ball away, hitting the deck, trying tricks that fail while team-mates beg for a pass and then next minute wins the game for the team with some brilliance.....very similar characters tbh.

Funny thing about the Chelsea and Madrid games is that Nani was doing well in both before the memorable incidents from the games. Though it's still mad that people remember Nani 'costing' us the game more than his overall performance, particularly his goal.

The point about Ronaldo is not that someone might be as good as he is. Its that if they follow his path then they will become as good as they personally can possibly be. I don't think Nani has done that or will, I hope Zaha can do that.

Fact is that whatever Nani's level is, it's a higher one than either Young or Valencia. If he goes, the squad's ability level drops and we need a bona fide replacement. Just for context, this is the first season since he's signed that a 'midfielder' (yes, yes; you know what I mean) not called Ronaldo has outscored Nani. For a side that has been lacking goals from midfield over the past few years that will be a significant loss; one I can't see being replaced by someone with 1 in 10 in the Championship.

[Sheps.]

None of Kagawa/Nani/Welbeck should be playing on the left so that is a problem, imo even Young is better down the middle.

And whilst Valencia almost remembered how to play he isn't world class at the top of his game so we could improve that position too.

Not saying we will though because we don't live in ScottMUFC moneybags buy whoever you want world.

Perhaps they shouldn't but they're all more than good enough there. For me its more important that a player like Welbeck gets games, he's not going to get a consistent chance up front so playing him out wide and letting him drift in is fine by me. The less said about Young the better.

I agree Valencia isn't world class but at the top of his game he's incredibly effective. Who knows if he can get back to that level though.

Mourinho has moved on after a short spell in every club he has been in so far, usually after spending a ton of money and barely letting the kids have a whiff of first team action, so there is plenty to indicate he would do the same here. Maybe he'd clash with the Glazers though, which could have been fun (but not particularly good for the club as a whole).

Totally agree we don't need wholesale changes to the squad. We do need improvements though, and we are screaming out for a player in the middle of the park, and have been for about 4 years. If Nani goes we should get in another winger as I don't think Zaha can come in and replace him (that's a comfortable understatement). If Rooney goes we obviously need to replace him too. But apart from those eventualities, we are basically set across the pitch.

Left Porto for Chelsea - understandable. Sacked from Chelsea. Joined Inter and won everything and then got offered the Madrid job, you just don't turn down Madrid. Now Madrid media/fans are hounding him out and Chelsea want him back, so it's a bit unfair to have him nailed down as some mercenary. Then again I quite like Mourinho so maybe I'm a little biased!

And yeh I agree if Rooney goes he needs replacing, although if he did we could just move Kagawa into his preferred position.

I honestly can't remember a United squad stooped in such quality in depth.

[Pangaea]

You can split hairs on the reasons he has left, but the fact is he has only been a few years in every club he has been in so far. And he is a highly divisible figure. We may well have been more successful with him than Moyes in the few years Mourinho would give us, but I am still glad we took the longer perspective (if all works out well ofc) and went with Moyes.

On the other hand... he has gotten rid of Steele and Phelan.

MOYES OUT!!!

[Coldberg]

I disagree about having quality in depth. We've got depth but in most cases it's not good enough or unreliable.

Lindegaard is just poo.

Defence is pretty well set. Büttner doesn't convince me but CB is sorted as is RB (Smalling/Jones can cover both). Wings are good if not brilliant in terms of form. Central midfield has depth but it seems Cleverley/Anderson cannot manage 90 minutes. Fletcher probably done for too.

Forward positions are where we are massively strong obviously.

I would like us to sign a central midfielder but have no idea who or what type.

[Icelander83]

Wanyama At least that's a realistic target imo, whether he's really good enough or not, I'm not really sure

[RSB]

Same issue as Zaha really - like the Championship, Scotland just isn't a good barometer for Premier League ability.

[Icelander83]

looked pretty decent in the CL, not that it's a big enough sample size. I think he's got enough potential to be a good player for us, obviously impossible to know if that's true or if he'll fulfill that potential

[Pangaea]

Lindegaard most certainly isn't pooh (but was quite pooh against WBA). He's good enough to be a starter for many PL clubs. Think we have the strongest squad in the league. Not necessarily the starting eleven, but the squad, the depth. The only real weakness we have is in central defence, and possibly on the wings if Nani leaves and Valencia doesn't refind his form. Unfortunately central midfield is also the heart of the team, so if we lose Carrick for a long period of time, we are quite frankly boned. Hence why I think he was even more important to our success last season than RVP.

As for possible signings there, I don't follow other leagues closely enough to have a qualified opinion. There are some names that pop up quite often, like Wanyama and Strootman, but I've no idea if they are good enough to e.g. play next to Carrick against Real Madrid in the knockout stages of the CL.

[Pangaea]

Haha, central defence. Just re-read my post, and I obviously meant our only real weakness is in central midfield.

I'll leave it for the laughs, and the fear in us all that all we'll sign this summer is yet another young central defender

[RSB]

Ha, had to re-read that about three times until I got to the 'heart of the team' bit and worked it out

Think Lindegaard is more 'meh' than 'poo'. Could probably sell him for a little more than we paid and have our pick of 101 alternatives of around the same level. He's very average, is 29 and from what he's said in the media is very keen to play often. I think if the first half of next season goes the way of the second half of this season - i.e. none of that there rotation bollocks and BSD backed to the hilt (as it should be), then he'll be looking for an out in January or certainly next season anyway. Makes more sense to get rid and see if there's a good deal out there; if not use the funds better and promote Johnstone for the cups to see what he's made of.

[Icelander83]

Lindegaard? Probably better than Scrabble but still no way I'd have him as a starter for more than a couple of games a season in the league.

[JJ72]

Let's get this one going, it's been quiet for a while: Fellaini's coming : http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/24/david-moyes-marouane-fellaini

[tomtuck01]

Let's get this one going, it's been quiet for a while: Fellaini's coming : http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/24/david-moyes-marouane-fellaini

Prepare to give loads of freekicks away chaps.

[RSB]

Yeah - did 6 (SIX) more fouls than renowned hack merchant Mikel Arteta this season.

[scott MUFC]

Fellaini? well isn't at a surprise.

what about the vermaelen rumours though :/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/transfers-manchester-united-eye-arsenals-1904552

[Icelander83]

He'd be at best our fourth best cb so not a chance in hell we're after him

[Deltaroad]

What is so special about Fellaini? All this interest in him is because he dominated us in midfield last year?

[ddidiodion]

More that he's the only United quality player under 27 from our managers old team.

[G-Man11]

More that he's the only United quality player, who isn't Leighton Baines, from our managers old team.

Fixed for you.

[ddidiodion]

Fixed for you.

Mine was still technically correct though

[kingcav]

Randomly been doing some reading about Bebé today. Injuries restricted his development (he's now 22 fwiw) or never good enough and one of Ferguson's worst buys?

[ddidiodion]

depends on whether you consider his purchase a footballing one or a bung for Jorge Mendes.

[kingcav]

Ha, that was my next question.

[Icelander83]

It's hard to consider it anything other than the latter unless you really want to bash SAF for the purchase.

Well, you can but not for actually buying Bebe, he was never the target of the transfer

[RSB]

What is so special about Fellaini? All this interest in him is because he dominated us in midfield last year?

I think it is more because everyone knows we need a midfielder and this season he has been the stand out player for that position in the league. Before the focus was on Yaya Toure but the question was "why didn't we buy him" rather than if we will. I can also remember some focus on Tiote and Cabaye of a similar nature when they were doing well.

For me around Europe there are some better options at possibly better prices than Fellaini but not as many know these players. If Gundogan impresses tonight we could see him come into focus.

Cos there aren't too many obvious options at DM out there, and Fellaini is one of them. With a Premiership pedigree, strong technical ability and a release clause to boot. For all people can push the likes of Gundogan it must be considered that Kagawa has struggled to adapt thus far and tonight's match featured contained ex-Prem luminaries such as Boateng, Van Buyten, Pizarro and Sahin in the squads. Premier league experience is a valuable commodity.

[Bracken]

While I'm not a United or Arsenal fan, we can all agree we hate Piers Morgan. And for this, RVP gets some major points from me:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/robin-van-persie-mocks-piers-morgan-sending-title-112419630.html

[Crazy_T]

Gundogan is miles better than Fellaini

we should be getting rid of rooney and throwing all we have at this guy

[Razzler]

While I'm not a United or Arsenal fan, we can all agree we hate Piers Morgan. And for this, RVP gets some major points from me:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/robin-van-persie-mocks-piers-morgan-sending-title-112419630.html

I honestly don't know why players/celebs allow themselves to be baited by Morgan. The fact he's gone to the hassle of sending a pic, aside from being semi-amusing, just still seems like you care too much what this utter arsehat thinks, says or writes

Morgan will have a warm, fuzzy feeling that someone of RvP's level has involved him in football related 'top banter' and if anything it elevates Morgan as a 'football guy' in the media, which he desperately wants to be

[Pangaea]

I don't get why anyone cares what these clowns write on twitter, but that may just be me!

Fellaini is a fine player, but that won't quite cut it if we want to start winning CL trophies again. I don't know what a player like Gündogan or Strootman would cost, but they seem like more quality players from what I hear and the little I've seen than Fellaini. Fellaini is the safe option though, because we know him well and he has performed in the PL.

Kagawa will come good, I have no doubt about that. He is pure quality and that will burst out sooner or later more regularly, when we start to use him right. Actually, the fact we have him just makes me want Gündogan more. They know each other and could get a good understanding for us too. Probably just another pipe dream though. Dortmund will do what they can to hold onto this team, and I kind of hope they succeed because it would be a crying shame to see such a good unit be broken apart by the bigger sharks.

[ham_aka_stam]

I think the thing for me with Fellaini is that he's pretty versatile in MF. I know it was a SAF thing to use players for specific roles in big games, but he'd be fantastic for that.

Watching the CL final last night though, Gundogan really did stand out.

[Leppard]

Bender might be better suited to what you guys would need - a defensive-minded midfielder.

Or you can buy Reus instead. Knowing Dortmund, they probably have some absurdly low clause in his contract too. Kagawa, Reus, Nani/Rooney behind RVP. Sound pretty nice.

[Sheps.]

One of the Bender brothers or Gundogan would be a top buy. They'll all be massively expensive though, more than Fellaini's release clause definitely.

[tomtuck01]

One of the Bender brothers or Gundogan would be a top buy. They'll all be massively expensive though, more than Fellaini's release clause definitely.

Don't reckon one of the Bender brothers will be more than Fellaini's release clause. (£24-ish million by all accounts). Gundogan would be a totally different type of signing to any of the Bender's or Fellaini though.

[hursty2]

Thought we had an agreement to ban the next person that said, 'twitter'?

[Leppard]

I'm guessing Lars will be cheaper, purely on the basis that his brother's team reached the CL final. I personally prefer Sven, though that might be because I see him more. On the other hand, Lars was capped before Sven by Germany iirc.

[Pangaea]

Who went mental over first names again? That was quite amusing.

[ddidiodion]

Thought Lars was universally regarded as superior to Sven?

[aderow]

I'd actually like Gundogan here. But part of me doesn't want to see Dortmund looted the way I kind of expect them to be.

[Leppard]

Thought Lars was universally regarded as superior to Sven?

He is. Sven is a better defensive midfielder imo but Lars is better in general. Played right-back for Germany in the Euros too iirc, so is obviously versatile as well.

[Sheps.]

Don't reckon one of the Bender brothers will be more than Fellaini's release clause. (£24-ish million by all accounts). Gundogan would be a totally different type of signing to any of the Bender's or Fellaini though.

I don't know anything about how longs left on their contracts etc.. but Leverkusen and Dortmund aren't going to want to lose another key player each (on the premiss that Schurrle -> Chelsea), hence high prices.

[blueglobefootball123]

It's hard to consider it anything other than the latter unless you really want to bash SAF for the purchase.

Well, you can but not for actually buying Bebe, he was never the target of the transfer

Who was the target?

[Icelander83]

Jorge Mendes

[milnerpoint]

Titus Bramble.

[Coldberg]

The rumours at the time were that Anderson was on his way out & was all but signed & sealed. Was to a Greek club but we changed our mind & didn't sell him. Mendes misses out on his payout & relations with him are strained. Bebe gets signed from nowhere for a ridiculous fee & eventually gets loaned to the Greek club. Everyones a winner/loser.

[craigcwwe]

[ddidiodion]

Looking forward to watching Zaha next season. He's got Obertan's thing of constantly looking like he doesn't know where the ball it's and just moves his long legs around quickly in the hope it will go in the right direction and also Bebe's thing of constantly chasing after the ball. If we manage to make our money back on him I'll be amazed don't think Fergie's last signing will go down as one of his best.

[Andrew_]

Just going by today and a handful of other times I've seen him.. £15 million is just insane.

[milnerpoint]

I can see him becoming on of United's top players, that touch alone for the second goal the other night was top drawer, if they can get him playing like that regularly he will be a star.