Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Bunkerossian]

Do different formation by themselves affect the behavior of the defenders? When playing 4-1-2-2-1, my defensive players don't do many last ditch tackles and are far less inclined to throw themselves in order to block shots, than in the 4-2-3-1 Narrow. I use no PI-s in the defense, while pressing intensity is identical for both formations. I don't have get Stuck in as active. The Shape is Flexible in the 4-2-3-1 formation, while in the other one it's Structured.

[Cleon]

Do different formation by themselves affect the behavior of the defenders? When playing 4-1-2-2-1, my defensive players don't do many last ditch tackles and are far less inclined to throw themselves in order to block shots, than in the 4-2-3-1 Narrow. I use no PI-s in the defense, while pressing intensity is identical for both formations. I don't have get Stuck in as active. The Shape is Flexible in the 4-2-3-1 formation, while in the other one it's Structured.

No the formation has little bearing other than how they position in defensive transitions. But obviously the players are positioned vastly different in both the formations you mentioned. What they do and how frequent is down to actual settings, PPM's and attributes.

[Marc.Foster050]

I am currently a top 4 team who dominates at home but struggles away against bigger teams as i play quite open so am trying to set up a formation to be a bit more solid and counter so i can maybe snatch a 0-1 win away or just not get thumped all the time. I want my team to counter quickly and be direct when the time is right but also play the ball around and try and keep possession to give them a breather and maybe waste some time when a counter isn't on. Am i right to think that if i set it up to keep possession and short passing with a counter mentality that they would play slower and more conservatively unless a counter was on when they would play quickly and direct? Don't want to set it up and they just counteract each other.

[442FM]

Hello. Explain to me how this is even possible. AI keep occupying the same space with their players in this tool, but when i watch their movement they actually playing way wider.

How do AI do this? position their players like this and still playing really wide. This game is not only starting to **** me off, it is not making any sense.

[HUNT3R]

Hello. Explain to me how this is even possible. AI keep occupying the same space with their players in this tool, but when i watch their movement they actually playing way wider.

How do AI do this? position their players like this and still playing really wide. This game is not only starting to **** me off, it is not making any sense.

You would be able to see that their wide players and strikers swap regularly during the match.

[442FM]

You would be able to see that their wide players and strikers swap regularly during the match.

No not really, they are playing a flat 4-4-2. How is their wide midfielders behaving like this?

How am i suppose to react to such bizzare AI magic.

This is not the only time they play like this, AI seems to do it allot of times.

If i understand you correct, if the wingers are swapping sides means they end up in the middle like that looking like a 4-2-2-2?

[herne79]

No not really, they are playing a flat 4-4-2. How is their wide midfielders behaving like this?

How am i suppose to react to such bizzare AI magic.

This is not the only time they play like this, AI seems to do it allot of times.

If i understand you correct, if the wingers are swapping sides means they end up in the middle like that looking like a 4-2-2-2?

It's just an average position. If a player spends 50% of his time on one wing, and 50% of his time on the other wing, his "average" position will be somewhere near the middle.

That's why the average positions map that you posted looks like a 4-2-2-2.

[Gee_Simpson]

I would like to be able to get the 4123 to work but tbh the 4141 just defends much better for me, even if I use the 2 wide players in the 4123 as support duties.

[Wladimir]

I have 2 questions:

1. If i mark TI "run at defence" and for example for striker PI "dribble less" how he will behave? its on or off option or both of this instructions will make my striker movement at default, and run at defence + dribble more will make hes runs even more ofen?

2. How to get benefit from team full of hard working players? My team, especially midfielders and strikers are very good at bravery, aggression, teamwork, determination and work rate. What style of play will get most benefit from this attributes?

[Der General]

More of a discussion starter than question - "Pirlo role". Is it closer to a Regista or a DLP? I can't quite manage to implement a playmaker in front of defence that has such control over the game as Pirlo had especially during his Juventus years, so I would like to hear some opinions.

[13xForever]

Ok its bugging me.

Is crossing and passing linked in any way? Say if i had someone with 20 crossing and 1 passing whats the outcome. In my head crossing is just passing horizontal from the byline.

[summatsupeer]

Ok its bugging me.

Is crossing and passing linked in any way? Say if i had someone with 20 crossing and 1 passing whats the outcome. In my head crossing is just passing horizontal from the byline.

You could say shooting is just passing it into the net.

They aren't linked afaik.

[Dr. Hook]

I have 2 questions:

1. If i mark TI "run at defence" and for example for striker PI "dribble less" how he will behave? its on or off option or both of this instructions will make my striker movement at default, and run at defence + dribble more will make hes runs even more ofen?

2. How to get benefit from team full of hard working players? My team, especially midfielders and strikers are very good at bravery, aggression, teamwork, determination and work rate. What style of play will get most benefit from this attributes?

For 1, yes, they instructions are stackable, so he would dribble less, but then dribble more and dribble more, so he would make dribbles more often in that scenario, but not as much as he would if you had the PI dribble less off. 2. Whatever style you play will benefit from players with those mental attributes as they will work hard and get involved as part of the way they play. You could opt for a physical style to get an edge, though. Ultimately though you want a system that will work for you in terms of skills and suitability, so I wouldn't try to base a style just off those attributes alone.

[summatsupeer]

More of a discussion starter than question - "Pirlo role". Is it closer to a Regista or a DLP? I can't quite manage to implement a playmaker in front of defence that has such control over the game as Pirlo had especially during his Juventus years, so I would like to hear some opinions.

I am no expert but:

Pirlo at Milan was more of DLP when he was moved deeper.

Pirlo at Juventus and Italy with 3 defenders (Rossi dropping into defence) was more of a Regista.

[wkdsoul]

Is the static target man PPM, much use for a poacher as well? It seems to be called penalty box player PPM in some editors/scout programs

Anyone help?

[Cleon]

Anyone help?

He's the type of player its only really suitable for, so yes. It is a penalty box player, it was just renamed in FM16 but it's still the 'penalty box player' from FM15.

[wkdsoul]

He's the type of player its only really suitable for, so yes. It is a penalty box player, it was just renamed in FM16 but it's still the 'penalty box player' from FM15.

Cheers Cleon, just wondered. I presume its static as in the penalty spot to 6 yr line, no channels etc.

[Cleon]

Cheers Cleon, just wondered. I presume its static as in the penalty spot to 6 yr line, no channels etc.

Yeah it just means they'll do very little other than stand in the box i.e Gary Lineker.

[Marc.Foster050]

More of a discussion starter than question - "Pirlo role". Is it closer to a Regista or a DLP? I can't quite manage to implement a playmaker in front of defence that has such control over the game as Pirlo had especially during his Juventus years, so I would like to hear some opinions.

I currently have a half back playing in front of the back 4. Stays very central, always demands the ball and every attack starts with him. Pretty much dictates the tempo of the game. Wanted a pirlo like role as have a player perfect for it and this is the closest i have found (well older Pirlo anyway).

[Cleon]

I am no expert but:

Pirlo at Milan was more of DLP when he was moved deeper.

Pirlo at Juventus and Italy with 3 defenders (Rossi dropping into defence) was more of a Regista.

I'd have said this too.

[Der General]

I was a bit closer to Regista due to roaming, but wasn't qute sure. Even in 4-3-1-2/4-4-2 diamond at Juventus, his role didn't change, so Regista it is. Thanks

[ariakas6]

Is move into channels pi force forward move to 2-3 or 1-4 the image under?

[Der General]

I was a bit closer to Regista due to roaming, but wasn't qute sure. Even in 4-3-1-2/4-4-2 diamond at Juventus, his role didn't change, so Regista it is. Thanks

I guess I'm satisfied with passing percentage, 10 key passes, 5 interceptions and an assist. First time I use Regista, I should have tried it earlier. Very Pirlo-esque.

[Cleon]

Is move into channels pi force forward move to 2-3 or 1-4 the image under?

It's the space between the defender and fullback so 2 and 3.

[2calvin]

I guess I'm satisfied with passing percentage, 10 key passes, 5 interceptions and an assist. First time I use Regista, I should have tried it earlier. Very Pirlo-esque.

It's my favourite role on the game and playing in front of 3 CD is such a good base. Mind posting your set up?

[burdinho]

I've had a couple of issues recently that dont really relate to tactics and training, but may well fall under the stupid questions category

- I bid for someone in Jan and was quoted an astronomical £20m because the selling club clearly didnt wanna sell. West Ham come along in January (not deadline day) and buy him for £4m....slightly pissed off at that

- Two GKs in my squad have extremely similar stats (at work so can't post but can provide later) yet one in my eyes who is slightly better is valued at 650k, and the other is at 4.2.

The keeper valued at 650k is Estanislao Marcellan and the 4.2m player I can't remember, but he is rated as half a star below Marcellan. Such a discrepancy in value, is that purely down to hidden attributes? They are both 24 and I signed both in the summer - so the disrepancy isnt age or contract related.

[Der General]

It's my favourite role on the game and playing in front of 3 CD is such a good base. Mind posting your set up?

Here it is.

Getting closer to 100.

[burdinho]

thats a very interesting midfield DG - and very attacking/positive. Are your back 4 exposed if an attack breaks down?

[Der General]

Not as much as you'd expect from looking at roles. I have chosen relatively low strategy, so my team is quite compact, two FB(S) ensure that I don't leave only two players behind. If one goes forward, the other one stays back, so I have something like a loopsided 3-man defence.

Still tinkering with left MC role, CM(A) might be overkill.

[superdave]

How do the stopper/cover roles play into defending 1 striker formations? I switch around between 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, and 4-1-2-3, but always play 4 in the back.

[skyline72]

Hi,

Wondering if there is anyone who has done the WM formation successfully.

I currently set it up as a 322"3".

FB-D CB-C FB-D

HB HB

AM-A AM-A

W-A F9 W-A

My mentality and team shape are Control and Very Fluid.

TI: Higher Tempo, Narrow width, Use Offside trap, Play out of defense, shorter passing, retain possession, be more disciplined, work ball into box.

PI:

GK - Roll it out

FB - Close down more, tackle harder, mark tighter, sit narrower, cut inside with ball

CB - Tackle harder

HB - Shoot less often, tackle harder, fewer risky passes

Winger - Shoot less often, tackle harder, roam from position, fewer risky passes

AM - Tackle harder

F9 - Shoot less often, tackler harder, roam from position

My possession are dominating(60+) for every game but I don't seem to have the triangle passes which I saw from here: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-14-tactics/158314-w-m-tactic-system-behind-total-football-tiki-taka-14-3-a.html.

It is this sort of play that I fell in love and I am trying to do it in FM16 without much success.

My passes are quite direct from the HB to the flanks or over the top to my F9.

Hope to hear some advice.

[marsh82]

without reading much of the thread you linked, surely the use of the HalfBack means that when playing out of defence the HB's drop between the CD & FB's and just makes a back 5? This would prevent any deep triangles being formed?

You could try looking at this as a start? Maybe trying basic DM'sto get the SHAPE you want in deep possession, the draw back of this would be less protection for the CB. There's a reason this tactic was left behind in the 1940s!

PS - a normal back 3 with 3 x CBs will give the same in possession spread as a FB-CB-FB trio - just with less forward penetration. Stronger defensively.

[skyline72]

without reading much of the thread you linked, surely the use of the HalfBack means that when playing out of defence the HB's drop between the CD & FB's and just makes a back 5? This would prevent any deep triangles being formed?

You could try looking at this as a start? Maybe trying basic DM'sto get the SHAPE you want in deep possession, the draw back of this would be less protection for the CB. There's a reason this tactic was left behind in the 1940s!

PS - a normal back 3 with 3 x CBs will give the same in possession spread as a FB-CB-FB trio - just with less forward penetration. Stronger defensively.

I am happy with the FB CB FB combination.

Just the way that my team passes are all forward pass which is not spectacular.

I am thinking of either changing the role of my DM or pull both my AMC down to MC.

[marsh82]

having the AM's move to CM will help with short passing triangles for sure. Have a play with the DM roles.

[skyline72]

having the AM's move to CM will help with short passing triangles for sure. Have a play with the DM roles.

Would 2 Advanced playmaker in the MC be a good option ?

[Phigam]

Is it possible to play with direct passing whilst also having "play out of defence" ticked? Playing with a DLP would the defense just bypass him and hoof it upfield or would they get it to the DLP as quickly as possible?

[Lyssien]

Hi all!

After missing FM15, I am trying to get into FM16 now. I am a bit confused with training workload at the moment. Here are my questions:

1) In the default skin, where is the option to set the intensity of individual training? Has it been streamlined out of the game or is it somewhere and I don't see it?

2) In the default skin, do we get information on the percentage of time devoted to each training element for a player? (eg, individual training, ppm, team training etc)

In FM14 we used to see bars explaining everything about workload, but now I don't see such a thing.

3) In the default skin, training workload for each player is shown on 2 different screens. a) In training->individual training->player, and b) in squad->player->develpment->training. Are these both !TOTAL! workload for each player or (TOTAL-TEAM TRAINING)?

No matter what I do with team training workload, the above workloads are always MEDIUM for every player, so I am confused about what they take into account.

Thanks. We have several screens full of overwhelming information on training, so I 'll be very disappointed if I can't customize training as much i used to in older versions.

[Dr. Hook]

Hi all!

After missing FM15, I am trying to get into FM16 now. I am a bit confused with training workload at the moment. Here are my questions:

1) In the default skin, where is the option to set the intensity of individual training? Has it been streamlined out of the game or is it somewhere and I don't see it?

2) In the default skin, do we get information on the percentage of time devoted to each training element for a player? (eg, individual training, ppm, team training etc)

In FM14 we used to see bars explaining everything about workload, but now I don't see such a thing.

3) In the default skin, training workload for each player is shown on 2 different screens. a) In training->individual training->player, and b) in squad->player->develpment->training. Are these both !TOTAL! workload for each player or (TOTAL-TEAM TRAINING)?

No matter what I do with team training workload, the above workloads are always MEDIUM for every player, so I am confused about what they take into account.

Thanks. We have several screens full of overwhelming information on training, so I 'll be very disappointed if I can't customize training as much i used to in older versions.

1) It has changed and there is no more individual training intensity setting

2) The workload is simplified- so it is all team, position/role, any additional. You won't see a breakdown now because it is all the same- streamlined. On the training screen>individual when you highlight a player it tells you his overall workload, but that is as close as you can get to how it used to be.

3) So yes, training workload is for the individual player modified by what extra you select for the player such as position/role, individual attribute focus, or PPM. So it is understood that team training is the same for every player and the workload is modified by any extras

So it is much simpler than before and you cant customize it to the degree you could.

[Dr. Hook]

Is it possible to play with direct passing whilst also having "play out of defence" ticked? Playing with a DLP would the defense just bypass him and hoof it upfield or would they get it to the DLP as quickly as possible?

The TIs are stackable, along with PI, so those two in combo with your defenders (assuming generic roles and no other PI) would result in mixed passing for them.

[Lyssien]

So it is much simpler than before and you cant customize it to the degree you could.

Cheers, Dr Hook! Good to see you still here.

What is the story behind this decision, did it come from SI initially or did the community campaign for it? I am very -VERY- disappointed with this.

I don't understand it either, does SI really believe that people who get easily overwhelmed will find training simpler now? It is actually more confusing than it used to be.

[Dr. Hook]

Cheers, Dr Hook! Good to see you still here.

What is the story behind this decision, did it come from SI initially or did the community campaign for it? I am very -VERY- disappointed with this.

I don't understand it either, does SI really believe that people who get easily overwhelmed will find training simpler now? It is actually more confusing than it used to be.

Good to see you back Lyssien . I don't know the story behind the changes, really. Perhaps Cleon does, but I do believe that the intention was to simplify things. I think it mostly confusing to us who have been around for several versions and seen all sorts of things with it. For me I liked the FM2005 deal where you assigned piggy in the middle, shadow play etc. because it resembled what we really do on the training pitch. It took me a bit to get used to (I had exactly the same questions you did when I first got my hands on it), but after getting used to it, I am finding that the new way hasn't really negatively affected my player development methods. It has made it easier in that I simply assign a role, any extras, and let the game handle the workload aspect. What would be great is a more detailed module that could be turned off for those that don't care for it. The suggestion has been put into the pipeline, but who knows what will come of it.

[CamillePunk]

-Nonsense and off topic to boot-

[HUNT3R]

The game and/or matches aren't scripted. It isn't even up for debate because it just isn't scripted. The opposition are allowed to make changes, especially after half-time and your players probably became complacent and then nervous to worsen the issue. Without proper detail, we can't say exactly what happened, but SI definitely isn't EA and this isn't GD.

[Lyssien]

I think it mostly confusing to us who have been around for several versions and seen all sorts of things with it.

Could be. Or maybe it is confusing because it does not allow tampering with things that one would logically expect to tamper with (workload). But yes, due to former experience it is hard to know what exactly is the case.

For me I liked the FM2005 deal where you assigned piggy in the middle, shadow play etc. because it resembled what we really do on the training pitch.

Oh man, I hated it. It was too opaque for me, and for most others as I recall. To each his own, I guess.

It took me a bit to get used to (I had exactly the same questions you did when I first got my hands on it), but after getting used to it, I am finding that the new way hasn't really negatively affected my player development methods. It has made it easier in that I simply assign a role, any extras, and let the game handle the workload aspect. What would be great is a more detailed module that could be turned off for those that don't care for it. The suggestion has been put into the pipeline, but who knows what will come of it.

You know, the problem with FM training was never its complexity (eg, compared to the tactical module), it was always the presentation of information. From what I see, I think SI have missed this point entirely. Provided I can afford the time, I may be back with a detailed proposal for training after I play the game for a while.

[Guest]

Training is an area that could do with a rethink as it is somewhat bland & tbh I hardly spend any time thinking about my training regimes.

I do prefer the non-slider approach that SI took from FM13 as that old system was an exercise in min/max'ing & was ripe for user training exploits whereas the latest offerings at least attempt to present some of the issues with managing the development of 25 or more professional footballers plus another 20 or so youth footballers but it does need fleshing out.

[Lyssien]

I do prefer the non-slider approach that SI took from FM13 as that old system was an exercise in min/max'ing & was ripe for user training exploits whereas the latest offerings at least attempt to present some of the issues with managing the development of 25 or more professional footballers plus another 20 or so youth footballers but it does need fleshing out.

The sliders approach was my idea. It made sense back then, because the tactical module worked with sliders as well (that's where I got the idea from). I think it succeeded in allowing more gamers to work with it, as a lot of people were lost with the pig-in-the-middle approach.

But I agree, training can do with a rethink.

[Dr. Hook]

The sliders approach was my idea. It made sense back then, because the tactical module worked with sliders as well (that's where I got the idea from). I think it succeeded in allowing more gamers to work with it, as a lot of people were lost with the pig-in-the-middle approach.

But I agree, training can do with a rethink.

When you get time (and/or inclination) I'd love for you to start a thread. This is definitely something that we should be discussing because I think SI are receptive to any good ideas we might come up with to a) keep/make it intuitive and simple to use and b) also reflect need for some sophistication and complexity. For example, one request I made in the beta areas was to be able to split our squads into training groups, so that defenders could get one training focus, midfielders another etc.

[Lyssien]

When you get time (and/or inclination) I'd love for you to start a thread. This is definitely something that we should be discussing because I think SI are receptive to any good ideas we might come up with to a) keep/make it intuitive and simple to use and b) also reflect need for some sophistication and complexity. For example, one request I made in the beta areas was to be able to split our squads into training groups, so that defenders could get one training focus, midfielders another etc.

My schedule is very unpredictable, so no promises, but I 'd love to. First I have to play the game a bit (I bought it recently) to get motivated and get ideas flowing.

Cleon, where art thou?

[higuainlegend]

I have question, if you fai to have a good preseason, is possible that during the season get many injuries? I mean bad preseason= players dont get fit befero season start

[Dr. Hook]

I have question, if you fai to have a good preseason, is possible that during the season get many injuries? I mean bad preseason= players dont get fit befero season start

If you don't get your players match fit, or overplay so that their condition drops, you could see more injures. I am not sure what you mean by bad, exactly