The Football Manager Playbook Released

[Lord Rowell]

Looks really great Cleon. Only dipped into it so far but I'm sure I'm going to find this both enjoyable and useful, based on what I've seen of your previous work on FM.

[anxiousAnarchist]

I've considered making a post of like an "Encyclopedia of Tactics," just very basic, simple tactics pretty much any team can use out of the box. 442, 532, 433, 4231, etc. I don't have the time at all right now but that could be something interesting, give people a base collection to work off of.

 

Do you have any collection of your old threads? It seems all the images are down on them.

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, Lord Rowell said:

Looks really great Cleon. Only dipped into it so far but I'm sure I'm going to find this both enjoyable and useful, based on what I've seen of your previous work on FM.

Cheers. Hopefully you'll enjoy it.

20 minutes ago, anxiousAnarchist said:

I've considered making a post of like an "Encyclopedia of Tactics," just very basic, simple tactics pretty much any team can use out of the box. 442, 532, 433, 4231, etc. I don't have the time at all right now but that could be something interesting, give people a base collection to work off of.

 

Do you have any collection of your old threads? It seems all the images are down on them.

None of my work fits what you're talking about doing. My stuff is usually all about the concepts and teaching people who the game work. The book is a great start for anyone struggling or wanting to learn imo. The game already comes with all the formations included that are classed "out of the box" so personally wouldn't see the point in it.

As for my work, I have most things on my HD but it's a ballache trying to extract images from Google Docs. There is lots posted on my Discord though and there will be an archive of all my old stuff in the next week or so.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Cleon

[Tsuru]

2 horas atrás, Cleon disse:

And yes there is several mistakes in the book but the page 127 one isn't a mistake. The mistake comes on page 40-41 where it says high line under the pros when it shouldn't.

Sorry, just to clarify...do you use a high or a low line with the 4222? I forgot to ask about that after reading the book.

For the next books it would be nice to read about your transfer market approach. 

[Cleon]

6 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Sorry, just to clarify...do you use a high or a low line with the 4222? I forgot to ask about that after reading the book.

For the next books it would be nice to read about your transfer market approach. 

Low.

[Tsuru]

41 minutos atrás, Cleon disse:

Low.

Interesting. I simply loved my 4132 with Much Higher DL and Much Higher LOE. It will probably need some adjustments for optimal compactness, but I will follow the high line path.

[coach vahid]

Frankly, great work. It will surely help.

But we can understand owls point of view and his frustration. It means that he expected that this book will answer his questions.

[Wolf_pd]

27 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

But we can understand owls point of view and his frustration. It means that he expected that this book will answer his questions.

There is frustration and personal attacks.

The first is understandable and acceptable to a certain extent, the second is not.

[jens_dewit]

You had a B/R article on you? THAT is impressive.

I mean, the book is too, class stuff! Always felt more effective using a balanced mentality instead of higher ones and now I finally understand why that is.

Looking forward to digging in and learning a lot more about the basics. Only took me 8 years to get here 😁

Thanks a lot 👍

[Cleon]

25 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

Frankly, great work. It will surely help.

But we can understand owls point of view and his frustration. It means that he expected that this book will answer his questions.

There is nothing to understand though. I don’t owe anyone anything. Id already explained multiple times for those that follow me what was going to happen and how the book changed due to the size it was becoming. Even then, I still owe no one anything. Yet I’m still doing all the other stuff.

Imagine getting upset over someone giving up their free time to create something that helps the community. And then throw abuse/personal attacks at them just because they had to change the layout of the book. But have already said they were doing the other stuff mentioned, even though they don’t have to.

But none the less it’s all dealt with now. People just need to be aware that they have no right to demand or dictate what someone does, regardless of what is said. Finding time to finish stuff is hard when you have a family etc. They are always the priority.

2 minutes ago, jens_dewit said:

You had a B/R article on you? THAT is impressive.

I mean, the book is too, class stuff! Always felt more effective using a balanced mentality instead of higher ones and now I finally understand why that is.

Looking forward to digging in and learning a lot more about the basics. Only took me 8 years to get here 😁

Thanks a lot 👍

Many years ago yeah 😂

Thank you for the kind words

[Lord Rowell]

3 hours ago, coach vahid said:

Frankly, great work. It will surely help.

But we can understand owls point of view and his frustration. It means that he expected that this book will answer his questions.

Re. your 2nd point.
No, he (assuming the person is a "he"?), he's not entitled to someone writing a book to be tailored to his specific questions. If he is frustrated, that's his personal issue and y'know, there are other guides out there. Or, he could work things out for himself

He's not entitled to anything at all.

[llama3]

Great to see you producing more work @Cleon - downloading now and will definitely have a read. Your work is always thought provoking.

[SPE3D]

Cleon read through the book. Real eye opener for me and described everything I had been doing wrong till now. Basically your book is about creating space. At least that's my take away. 

One questionn though  I noticed you didn't touch the passing or tempo sliders when creating your tactic. Is this something you avoid doing or just something that suited this tactic?

[ta11zx]

12 hours ago, Cleon said:

For those of you who have read the book, which chapter/s were the most helpful and why?

Also for a second book, what would you as the read think the next natural step is? I.e what would you want to build upon now the basics are out of the way?

Defensive football.  Low line and line of engagement.  Basically how to be diego Simione on FM.

[Cleon]

10 hours ago, llama3 said:

Great to see you producing more work @Cleon - downloading now and will definitely have a read. Your work is always thought provoking.

Thanks mate

6 hours ago, SPE3D said:

Cleon read through the book. Real eye opener for me and described everything I had been doing wrong till now. Basically your book is about creating space. At least that's my take away. 

One questionn though  I noticed you didn't touch the passing or tempo sliders when creating your tactic. Is this something you avoid doing or just something that suited this tactic?

I mentioned the tempo/passing and mentality and why I chose what I did. There was a full chapter on it explaining why I left it on balanced mentality and why I didn't want to mess with the settings

4 hours ago, ta11zx said:

Defensive football.  Low line and line of engagement.  Basically how to be diego Simione on FM.

This won't be a book will be a blog post/series.

[Ilpoarm]

@CleonI know the book is not about 442 box formation, but I have to say that this book (+old brazil five 10's, old box article) has really opened my eyes on how to defend with narrow formations. In the old article you had cm/su infront of roaming regista, because you needed some one to keep his place in the middle. In the new formation you ask AP/su to keep his position.  What I realize is that you could also do other way around too and let for example a carrilero to defend the flank and have dlp to sit on position.

I know this doesn't sound a lot, but really helped to create "invincibles" with Vieira in segundo volante role + Henry role as a raumdeuter. I'm now playing with asymmetric 442, because of your book.

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Ilpoarm
Typos.

[ta11zx]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

This won't be a book will be a blog post/series

Where will this be posted?

[Cleon]

38 minutes ago, Ilpoarm said:

@CleonI know the book is not about 442 box formation, but I have to say that this book (+old brazil five 10's, old box article) has really opened my eyes on how to defend with narrow formations. In the old article you had cm/su infront of roaming regista, because you needed some one to keep his place in the middle. In the new formation you ask AP/su to keep his position.  What I realize is that you could also do other way around too and let for example a carrilero to defend the flank and have dlp to sit on position.

I know this doesn't sound a lot, but really helped to create "invincibles" with Vieira in segundo volante role + Henry role as a raumdeuter. I'm now playing with asymmetric 442, because of your book.

 

 

 

You are right yeah you could easily flip the roles around if you wanted. Or do some variation of them that allows 1 player to always sit in the space you think can be dangerous space if you lose possession.

I'm glad I've been able to help you in some way and that now you are trying new things in your own save or are thinking in a different way. That was always the intention of the book and I'm glad it seems to have come across this way based on your feedback and from others

12 minutes ago, ta11zx said:

Where will this be posted?

On the site linked in the opening post.

[Riziger]

Great stuff Cleon. Read it all in one go.

Really enjoyed the section on the DLF/MEZ partnerships and the analysis/watching the game sections. Will definitely be incorporating some ideas from those in how I play.

Just as an add-on. I've scanned through the book twice now and you switched from playing with a high aggressive block with much higher / much higher, to going to a low DL at the end of the book. Did the defensive system change through the season based on what you were seeing?

[Cleon]

53 minutes ago, Riziger said:

Great stuff Cleon. Read it all in one go.

Really enjoyed the section on the DLF/MEZ partnerships and the analysis/watching the game sections. Will definitely be incorporating some ideas from those in how I play.

Just as an add-on. I've scanned through the book twice now and you switched from playing with a high aggressive block with much higher / much higher, to going to a low DL at the end of the book. Did the defensive system change through the season based on what you were seeing?

I seem to have confused a lot of people with this, myself included. The first part of the writing where I do pros/cons and discuss the settings was done over 9 months ago. The final parts of the book the last few months/weeks. So I need to go back and check and read it through myself (Something I actually haven't done yet) to remind myself what I did. I have notes written down and saves from every season and just went back to double check and I did in fact start with a higher line like people mention. But it seems I ended the book with a lower one based on what people are saying. So it looks like the book is correct but the issue is I haven't documented why or when the change occured? If so I will try and get this clarified as to why I didn't. It is possible this bit is in one of the other articles/parts that were removed. 

As this is what the book drive looks like with stuff that was cut from the book. There is the odd piece which has the same title as somethings in the book but they were streamlined or had bits added/removed from them. So as you can see and understand the book was always evolving into something else when working on it. I had to adapt it an awful lot and rewrite as I went alone. But I have all the info, it's just trying to remember which bit it was in or which draft version etc. Once I find the missing bit either in these articles or by remembering by reading the book myself, I will clarify the situation further.

I know it might seem frustrating but there was lots of moving parts on the go.

EDIT - I hate reading my own stuff btw.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Cleon

[Riziger]

No dramas, can appreciate the monumental effort of piecing this together. Look forward to any updates.

[bosque]

En 20/8/2022 a las 10:41, Cleon dijo:

For those of you who have read the book, which chapter/s were the most helpful and why?

Also for a second book, what would you as the read think the next natural step is? I.e what would you want to build upon now the basics are out of the way?

I didn't read it all yet, but I really liked the attributes + playing styles one. It helps you to organize and plan for the future or for one-off games.

[Cleon]

2 minutes ago, Riziger said:

No dramas, can appreciate the monumental effort of piecing this together. Look forward to any updates.

I never thought you was for one moment :). I just wanted to show people just how much effort went into stuff and how it's easy to make mistakes with all the moving parts. Everything not used in this book will be in the other books we do or be articles on the blog in the opening post. So be sure to check it out.

1 minute ago, bosque said:

I didn't read it all yet, but I really liked the attributes + playing styles one. It helps you to organize and plan for the future or for one-off games.

Thanks. I think it's often a part that is overlooked so wanted to give some kind of visual to try and give people a starting point or something to be aiming for just as a rough guide.

[loisvale]

@CleonGreat stuff as always. Interesting read. Loved your forged in steel blog a few years back and still find myself playing that way. 
 

would love to know what team instructions you would use for that 352 in todays creator as you wrote that before this version of the TC. 
 

Also would love to see you write more on the attributes you look for to play the same role differently with substitutes given this is how you impact a game 90% of the time as well as player instruction changes given it is the other thing you tend to do. 

[JoOSTAR]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

I seem to have confused a lot of people with this, myself included. The first part of the writing where I do pros/cons and discuss the settings was done over 9 months ago. The final parts of the book the last few months/weeks. So I need to go back and check and read it through myself (Something I actually haven't done yet) to remind myself what I did. I have notes written down and saves from every season and just went back to double check and I did in fact start with a higher line like people mention. But it seems I ended the book with a lower one based on what people are saying. So it looks like the book is correct but the issue is I haven't documented why or when the change occured? If so I will try and get this clarified as to why I didn't. It is possible this bit is in one of the other articles/parts that were removed. 

As this is what the book drive looks like with stuff that was cut from the book. There is the odd piece which has the same title as somethings in the book but they were streamlined or had bits added/removed from them. So as you can see and understand the book was always evolving into something else when working on it. I had to adapt it an awful lot and rewrite as I went alone. But I have all the info, it's just trying to remember which bit it was in or which draft version etc. Once I find the missing bit either in these articles or by remembering by reading the book myself, I will clarify the situation further.

I know it might seem frustrating but there was lots of moving parts on the go.

EDIT - I hate reading my own stuff btw.

I've finally found the time to read through the whole book (great read btw, I enjoyed it and am looking forward to try to improve my own FM-skills)

I came here to bring up this issue as I was confused because of the mention of "Low defensive line" while the screenshot of the tactic mentioned "Much higher defensive line", and I couldn't remember any part where this was explained.
If I understand it correctly you played with a much higher defensive line for a while, but after a while changed to a low defensive line? Did you change the Line of engagement as well or did that one stay on much higher? Really curious about this as I think I noticed a lot of FM-players change the line of engagement as well when they lower/higher their defensive line. 

 

Thanks for your time!

[Cleon]

We've added a new way of viewing the book on the website today. You can read it online now as well as offline.

https://fmplaybook.viewfromthetouchline.com

If you follow that link you can view the book. You'll also have the option to install it as an offline app on your desktop, Android, and iOS and it works in aeroplane mode too. To use the offline app simply just click on the icon in the tool.

 

 

Then it will look and act like an app on your desktop;

If you still want to download it, you can also still do that. Click the print option on your keyboard and save it as a PDF while on the book's homepage.

A massive shoutout and huge thanks to Rob the owner of sortitoutsi for reaching out and creating this. We can't thank him enough.

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, loisvale said:

@CleonGreat stuff as always. Interesting read. Loved your forged in steel blog a few years back and still find myself playing that way. 
 

would love to know what team instructions you would use for that 352 in todays creator as you wrote that before this version of the TC. 
 

Also would love to see you write more on the attributes you look for to play the same role differently with substitutes given this is how you impact a game 90% of the time as well as player instruction changes given it is the other thing you tend to do. 

For FM23 there will be a lot of stuff around this in terms of players playing roles differently etc.

As for the 352 stuff, there is lots of stuff on this forum about that from me already. Nothing really changes for me with those.

8 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

I've finally found the time to read through the whole book (great read btw, I enjoyed it and am looking forward to try to improve my own FM-skills)

I came here to bring up this issue as I was confused because of the mention of "Low defensive line" while the screenshot of the tactic mentioned "Much higher defensive line", and I couldn't remember any part where this was explained.
If I understand it correctly you played with a much higher defensive line for a while, but after a while changed to a low defensive line? Did you change the Line of engagement as well or did that one stay on much higher? Really curious about this as I think I noticed a lot of FM-players change the line of engagement as well when they lower/higher their defensive line. 

 

Thanks for your time!

Yeah I need to read up and find out which bit is missing then add it in here.

[JoOSTAR]

1 minute ago, Cleon said:

Yeah I need to read up and find out which bit is missing then add it in here.

Alright, looking forward to that!

[Tsuru]

8 minutos atrás, JoOSTAR disse:

Alright, looking forward to that!

That will be very interesting, @Cleon. All systems I used with lower DL/lower LOE or lower were absurdly passive, despite any other aggressive instructions. Looking forward to see how you adjusted your system to avoid that.

[Cleon]

So I'm trying to get to the bottom of the low line thing in the book that is confusing people. Is it specifically this passage or somewhere else?

Quote

The analysis says we’ve had 25 long-range shots and scored 0, that’s quite worrying. While the overall amount of shots is low for 31 games played, it does suggest that when we do shoot from the range we score. So what I need to do here is check the individual analysis for the players from the games so far and see if it's a cause for concern or not. I’m actually not checking just because we haven’t scored one but I also want to check to make sure that when we do shoot from range, it isn’t killing a perfectly good move where a pass would be better suited. Also want to ensure that we aren’t shooting from the range because we lack forward options or the players shooting, aren’t isolated and left with no other choice but to shoot from areas/angles they have no chance of scoring from.

One of the negatives listed is that we have allowed the opposition to score 1 goal from 10 shots from long-range. So the advice is now telling me to play with a higher defensive line, which is something I don’t really want to do. I play with a low line for a specific reason which I discussed earlier in the book. Why it’s telling me to play with a higher defensive line is because it is logical that the further up the field we start from, the more distance between the defenders and the keeper meaning the opposition strikers, shouldn’t be in shooting distance. The recommendation does make sense. However there are two issues here; It doesn’t suit the playstyle I’m creating and secondly, it opens up a whole new issue that I’d like to see happening.

 

[Tsuru]

2 minutos atrás, Cleon disse:

So I'm trying to get to the bottom of the low line thing in the book that is confusing people. Is it specifically this passage or somewhere else?

 

You presented the 4222 example with Much Higher DL/Much Higher LOE, but later you mentioned the lower DL. I think the book misses the part in which you changed the defensive line and the line of engagement, why you did and if you did any other change (like removing Counter Press, Much More Urgent or Prevent Short GK distribution).

[DJ Sir Matthew]

On 20/08/2022 at 09:13, Cleon said:

It's a lot of effort to list that pros and cons of every formation because it all depends on the formations you face too. However the info is all out there already if you do a little Google search, just use the real life ones. I know you say the quality/depth doesn't seem to be there on Google but it is. I mean this will all respect but maybe you are just too picky or need far more guidance than most. That's fine but I genuinely don't know what more I could do. At some stage you have to take responsibility for what you are learning and discovering yourself. You can't always put it on others and expect them to provide every single detail, that is just unrealistic. Any more in-depth from me and you're look at a 1k+ page book and another 2-3 years before completing it. I feel I covered enough for anyone to create a tactic. You say that the quality isn't always there when searching Google and that's fine. Yet you expect people to shift through them all and find the better ones for you or write an extensive list for you. 

I think in the book I did it very well with hand holding as you called it and talk people through it step by step. Out of 11.5k downloads the thousands of feedback so far seems to be the exact opposite of what you've said. People have said it talked them through every step of the creation and simplified the complex parts of the games. So maybe it's as you said and you just haven't read enough of the book yet but are commenting as if you have? Social media/ Reddit/website/Twitter/Instagram and Discord, everyone is saying the opposite. 

I don't mean to sound harsh and I appreciate the feedback but there's a fine line between what information I give out and the things you need to do yourself. Remember what I do is for free and isn't a job.

This site for example gives a quick run down that is more than fine for the basics functions of the popular formation;

https://www.sportsessionplanner.com/s/m7TZ/Formations-Srengths-&-Weakness.html?interface=en

Same again;

https://www.abiprod.com/6-common-soccer-formations-their-strengths-weaknesses-requirements-and-variations/

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/football-tactics-formations-explained-442-433-451-4231-most-common-how-beat-them

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-strengths-and-weaknesses-of-the-3-3-4-soccer-formation-How-can-one-use-this-formation-against-a-4-2-3-1-formation

https://www.sportsrec.com/523913-the-strengths-weaknesses-of-soccer-formations.html

All taken from the top 7 search hits on Google.

1st off , I was probably too tired when writing my first comment and didn't get the message across as good as I wanted it to. 2nd off, thanks for taking the time to respond in a constructive way and even adding some extra pointers.

By now, I finished reading the book. I will need to reread it a couple of times before everything sinks in. My overall first impression is that there are some golden nuggets in there (like someone already said, creating space & movement to find said space is key to how you want the 4-2-2-2 to be as deadly as it is for you or having substitutes that can perform in the same role but with a little bit different flavor to it) but I do feel some parts could use more depth/information. Also somewhat more TLC on the editing front (forgive me, it's my daily bread&butter so i'm kinda focused on that too).

Maybe a key question that I haven't seen answered (or I must have overlooked it, in that case I do apologize): What audience did you write this book for? I have the impression it's for the FM player who has already some experience and has created some tactics already but need to take that extra step/those few extra steps to become really succesful/confident in his tactical approach?

[DJ Sir Matthew]

7 minutes ago, Cleon said:

So I'm trying to get to the bottom of the low line thing in the book that is confusing people. Is it specifically this passage or somewhere else?

 

I think that is the one, also because you say "I play with a low line for a specific reason which I discussed earlier in the book. " when in fact on page 40- 41 you write why you choose a higher DL and higher line of engagement

[loisvale]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

For FM23 there will be a lot of stuff around this in terms of players playing roles differently etc.

As for the 352 stuff, there is lots of stuff on this forum about that from me already. Nothing really changes for me with those.

 

Ok. Did you ever post the notes you began around this save as you allude to below:

If so can you repost as can’t find them  

This thread will get added to over the next few weeks with lots of tactical stuff and player development articles. Remember the Ajax thread I did? Yeah that will have nothing on this 

These are just some of the articles to expect to see in this very thread in the coming weeks and those are only the player development and training side of things 

[Aoyao]

amazing

[Cleon]

Clarity

Some of you have pointed out there was a mistake between page 40-41 and page 126. The reason for this is because the book was much larger and included all types of playing styles. The bit about the low line on page 126 is incorrect and comes from a match where I originally was talking about low blocks which was removed. It doesn't make any difference to what we were talking about though as it was only to highlight how we can use all available options. The stuff on page 40-21 are correct as is the image of the tactic after double and triple checking. At no point was that changed at any point. This was also another reason for splitting the book up and trying to focus on a specific theme too as the people who were lucky enough to get really early access to it stated it was becoming confusing to follow, which is understandable really.

Hopefully that clears that up.

 

 

[Cleon]

17 hours ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

1st off , I was probably too tired when writing my first comment and didn't get the message across as good as I wanted it to. 2nd off, thanks for taking the time to respond in a constructive way and even adding some extra pointers.

By now, I finished reading the book. I will need to reread it a couple of times before everything sinks in. My overall first impression is that there are some golden nuggets in there (like someone already said, creating space & movement to find said space is key to how you want the 4-2-2-2 to be as deadly as it is for you or having substitutes that can perform in the same role but with a little bit different flavor to it) but I do feel some parts could use more depth/information. Also somewhat more TLC on the editing front (forgive me, it's my daily bread&butter so i'm kinda focused on that too).

Maybe a key question that I haven't seen answered (or I must have overlooked it, in that case I do apologize): What audience did you write this book for? I have the impression it's for the FM player who has already some experience and has created some tactics already but need to take that extra step/those few extra steps to become really succesful/confident in his tactical approach?

Why do you get the impression it's for people with experience already? Personally I feel it's for all people but more aimed at those without experience. For example my 10 year old daughter and 8 year old son are able to use it and they had no prior experience to playing (Unlike my older kids) without any assistance from me. I believe it's a good building base for those with no idea what they want to do, what they're doing or perhaps struggling and feel overwhelmed in general.

4 hours ago, Aoyao said:

amazing

Thanks

[Tsuru]

3 minutos atrás, Cleon disse:

Clarity

Some of you have pointed out there was a mistake between page 40-41 and page 126. The reason for this is because the book was much larger and included all types of playing styles. The bit about the low line on page 126 is incorrect and comes from a match where I originally was talking about low blocks which was removed. It doesn't make any difference to what we were talking about though as it was only to highlight how we can use all available options. The stuff on page 40-21 are correct as is the image of the tactic after double and triple checking. At no point was that changed at any point. This was also another reason for splitting the book up and trying to focus on a specific theme too as the people who were lucky enough to get really early access to it stated it was becoming confusing to follow, which is understandable really.

Hopefully that clears that up.

Yes, thank you.

Just as a curiosity, when you used the Low Defensive Line how the LOE was set up - normal?

Do you have any materials about low blocks, on a blog or something? It would be interesting to read about them too.

[Cleon]

5 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Yes, thank you.

Just as a curiosity, when you used the Low Defensive Line how the LOE was set up - normal?

Do you have any materials about low blocks, on a blog or something? It would be interesting to read about them too.

Further up the thread when I was replying to Owls, I linked a 8k word document all about defensive football and low blocks. The new stuff will be coming to the website in the opening post.

As for setting LOE it all depends on the starting point you want your strikers to press from.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Cleon

[JoOSTAR]

17 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Clarity

Some of you have pointed out there was a mistake between page 40-41 and page 126. The reason for this is because the book was much larger and included all types of playing styles. The bit about the low line on page 126 is incorrect and comes from a match where I originally was talking about low blocks which was removed. It doesn't make any difference to what we were talking about though as it was only to highlight how we can use all available options. The stuff on page 40-21 are correct as is the image of the tactic after double and triple checking. At no point was that changed at any point. This was also another reason for splitting the book up and trying to focus on a specific theme too as the people who were lucky enough to get really early access to it stated it was becoming confusing to follow, which is understandable really.

Hopefully that clears that up.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Tsuru]

11 minutos atrás, Cleon disse:

Further up the thread when I was replying to Owls, I linked a 8k word document all about defensive football and low blocks. The new stuff will be coming to the website in the opening post.

As for setting LOE it all depends on the starting point you want your strikers to press from.

Oh, I am sorry...I tried to access the document from the mobile phone but it was not working, so for any reason I did not register the information.

Glad to see that material about low block is kind of an evolution from another one about the School of Defensive Arts in which you also used a 4-4-2 Diamond Narrow on England Lower Leagues, changing the instructions according to the opponents, I really liked that article.

[Cleon]

18 hours ago, loisvale said:

Ok. Did you ever post the notes you began around this save as you allude to below:

If so can you repost as can’t find them  

 

This thread will get added to over the next few weeks with lots of tactical stuff and player development articles. Remember the Ajax thread I did? Yeah that will have nothing on this 

These are just some of the articles to expect to see in this very thread in the coming weeks and those are only the player development and training side of things 

No. I think this was around the time I had heart issues and a heart attack. So never finished it off. Still have them half done on my drive. I might get to finish them off/update at some stage though.

[loisvale]

1 hour ago, Cleon said:

No. I think this was around the time I had heart issues and a heart attack. So never finished it off. Still have them half done on my drive. I might get to finish them off/update at some stage though.

Ok no worries. Have plenty to go on. Good luck with the rest of this project. 

[Cleon]

On 21/08/2022 at 17:11, DJ Sir Matthew said:

1st off , I was probably too tired when writing my first comment and didn't get the message across as good as I wanted it to. 2nd off, thanks for taking the time to respond in a constructive way and even adding some extra pointers.

By now, I finished reading the book. I will need to reread it a couple of times before everything sinks in. My overall first impression is that there are some golden nuggets in there (like someone already said, creating space & movement to find said space is key to how you want the 4-2-2-2 to be as deadly as it is for you or having substitutes that can perform in the same role but with a little bit different flavor to it) but I do feel some parts could use more depth/information. Also somewhat more TLC on the editing front (forgive me, it's my daily bread&butter so i'm kinda focused on that too).

Maybe a key question that I haven't seen answered (or I must have overlooked it, in that case I do apologize): What audience did you write this book for? I have the impression it's for the FM player who has already some experience and has created some tactics already but need to take that extra step/those few extra steps to become really succesful/confident in his tactical approach?

What parts needed more depth did you feel, you never really said? 

[swede]

This is some excellent stuff @Cleon! Started reading yesterday, and it 's well written and informative. Certainly looking forward to more. In parts I think it's a bit sad that SI has to rely on people like you to explain how the tactics engine works and how you can get your team to do roughly what you want, but on the other hand the quality of the stuff you come out with is good enough to actually be officially part of the game. It's also a joy to read, so there is an upside.

I've always had a bit of an issue with how FM fails and emulating real word communication with players in the sense that we can't just stand in front of a tactics board and say 'ball goes here you press for 4 seconds then go here' etc, but people like you go to great lengths to reduce that deficiency in the game, and SI should be at least as grateful for that as we plebs are.

[Cleon]

On 25/08/2022 at 08:28, swede said:

This is some excellent stuff @Cleon! Started reading yesterday, and it 's well written and informative. Certainly looking forward to more. In parts I think it's a bit sad that SI has to rely on people like you to explain how the tactics engine works and how you can get your team to do roughly what you want, but on the other hand the quality of the stuff you come out with is good enough to actually be officially part of the game. It's also a joy to read, so there is an upside.

I've always had a bit of an issue with how FM fails and emulating real word communication with players in the sense that we can't just stand in front of a tactics board and say 'ball goes here you press for 4 seconds then go here' etc, but people like you go to great lengths to reduce that deficiency in the game, and SI should be at least as grateful for that as we plebs are.

Thanks for the great feedback. I'm glad you find the content useful for bridging a gap that is lacking

[Lira95]

En 20/8/2022 a las 10:09, Owls dijo:

"I've played this way 6 seasons so far in this save games and have won the Premier League multiple times. I don't want to spoil too much or give too many details about specifics as it'll ruin the free books which will be released very soon. "

 

Was posted in JANUARY. By you. It's August and you are babbling how you need another weeks/months whatever at which point FM22 will be obsolete. At this point in my book this is pure trolling. Anybody liking this thread can load up a save with Sheffield United and use this tactic which this user claims the quoted results with, and try to get anywhere close. You could maybe get into the playoffs somehow.

I'm not saying it's Cleon's case but some of the good writers here clearly enhance their players' attributes with the editor to make their explanation easier thus if you try the tactic with the same team, players and season, you won't get the same results. My advice is: read the explanations carefully and try to apply the main ideas to your own tactic because you'll have to make tweaks on it so you won't get frustrated with no having the same impossible results that some of them get, because, one more time, they play with the attributes enhanced

[herne79]

43 minutes ago, Lira95 said:

I'm not saying it's Cleon's case but some of the good writers here clearly enhance their players' attributes with the editor to make their explanation easier thus if you try the tactic with the same team, players and season, you won't get the same results. My advice is: read the explanations carefully and try to apply the main ideas to your own tactic because you'll have to make tweaks on it so you won't get frustrated with no having the same impossible results that some of them get, because, one more time, they play with the attributes enhanced

You have any evidence to back up that claim other than your own belief?  That’s pretty disingenuous to the people who put in a lot of time and effort to help others if not.

Apologies to Cleon for going off topic here but unless substantiated that’s a pretty nasty thing to say.  @Johnny Ace @HUNT3R please keep an eye here and remove these posts if necessary so as not to block up this thread.

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, Lira95 said:

I'm not saying it's Cleon's case but some of the good writers here clearly enhance their players' attributes with the editor to make their explanation easier thus if you try the tactic with the same team, players and season, you won't get the same results. My advice is: read the explanations carefully and try to apply the main ideas to your own tactic because you'll have to make tweaks on it so you won't get frustrated with no having the same impossible results that some of them get, because, one more time, they play with the attributes enhanced

The accusation is entirely without evidence, so it has no place being part of the discussion here. I would suggest we move on from this for that reason.

I'll also mention that this article teaches principles instead of desiring people simply just copy a tactic. What the principles allow us to do, is to apply them in different situations with different players and different teams. That way we can adapt our setups to suit the team we do have.

 

[Cleon]

2 hours ago, Lira95 said:

I'm not saying it's Cleon's case but some of the good writers here clearly enhance their players' attributes with the editor to make their explanation easier thus if you try the tactic with the same team, players and season, you won't get the same results. My advice is: read the explanations carefully and try to apply the main ideas to your own tactic because you'll have to make tweaks on it so you won't get frustrated with no having the same impossible results that some of them get, because, one more time, they play with the attributes enhanced

I used to upload my saved games for people to play on when I did articles, on a fair number of occasions. I've not known anyone up attributes though to prove a point apart from 1 youtuber about 7 years ago. I don't think SI would have had me on the alpha for 23 years if I cheated though. Or ask me to write for them if I did anything like this.

I always tell people not to try and copy anyway because they don't think the same way as me or others. We all have different approaches, different ways we react to things and a lot of people don't even understand what they're seeing happen on the pitch. Let alone be in a position to fix it. While others have better understandings of the ME, others are better at morale, signing players etc. And some are better at them all. Myself I'm rubbish at morale and neglect it but I make up for that with knowing how the ME works. While someone like @HUNT3R is probably one of the best motivators I've seen on FM and wins by knowing how to get players up for games. I'm not saying that's the only thing he is good at but he's certainly the best I've seen document it with a massive focus on morale.

It's like real life and jobs etc. If you placed me in your work place and I copy what you've done, I likely wouldn't get the same results because you'll have had years of experience and really honed your craft and skill. No matter how well you explained your role to me, you'd still be better at your job than someone who took it up 10 mins ago. The same applies here. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Cleon