HUNT3R Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 No im sorry but thats exactly what i meant. They have said its not a feature? Hardly much info in that post by Neil is there. Im talking about features as daylight states above in his post! Its great that they are always looking to improve it but what have they done, what improvements have been made? 3 lines of info isnt exactly much. It's 3 lines more than other games companies give you. As my edited post state, there might not be anything specific to tell. It might just be a case of improving or fine-tuning the AI logic in certain ways. Something like the AI targeting certain roles rather than just looking at overall positions is a fairly big deal, if no-one realises. It'll help the AI buy a ball-winning Sandro when it needs one instead of a Modric to do the ball-winning, for instance, keeping the squad better balanced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Is the beta out next week? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Is the beta out next week? Possibly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleFan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Is the beta out next week? they said two weeks before the launch date... the lunch date is 3 weeks today so the beta comes out 2 weeks before the launch date which would make next friday the launch date for the beta.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 They said around 2 weeks, not exactly 2 weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio MVP Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Probably if not most probabaly next week. Maybe on or around Friday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's 3 lines more than other games companies give you. It's important not to overlook this point. Go on an EA forum and ask the developer specific details about the latest iteration of their various franchises. Whilst you may feel that SI aren't giving you enough specific detail, they are giving more information than is normal in this industry. Just look at the posts from Neil D in the recent Fifa vs. FM thread. It is rare to get that sort of developer : user interaction and it should not be overlooked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 to be fair, i think i have read someone from si that positions and roles are going to be checked better by ai which is supposed to buy players specifically for position/role. so, that is a bit of an improvement i guess. Is that not the part that Hunt3r quoted from Neil? Again it is really vague if it is. Given how many players complain about this and how important it is to the long term save SI really should be showing us something about it. Maybe showing a team 10 years from now and how the AI has built the squad, saying how it has changed since previous versions, a simple "something they'll be looking at" with regards to the new player roles is hardly confidence inspiring. At the moment I actually find the silence saying a lot, I even seen a thread closed by Neil asking about the AI squad building with Neil saying "try the demo", the demo is useless to judge this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOA Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 "Treat em mean, keep em keen" Well done SI it's working lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's important not to overlook this point. Go on an EA forum and ask the developer specific details about the latest iteration of their various franchises.Whilst you may feel that SI aren't giving you enough specific detail, they are giving more information than is normal in this industry. Just look at the posts from Neil D in the recent Fifa vs. FM thread. It is rare to get that sort of developer : user interaction and it should not be overlooked. Actually this is also not true, there are many devs that are very very hands on with their player base, they stay in touch with them and take time to respond to their posts and answer questions. I have beta tested a lot of games in the past and again in those games you find quite often you can have 1 to 1 chats with the actual devs. Let's not judge every developer as a mini EA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Is that not the part that Hunt3r quoted from Neil?Again it is really vague if it is. Given how many players complain about this and how important it is to the long term save SI really should be showing us something about it. Maybe showing a team 10 years from now and how the AI has built the squad, saying how it has changed since previous versions, a simple "something they'll be looking at" with regards to the new player roles is hardly confidence inspiring. At the moment I actually find the silence saying a lot, I even seen a thread closed by Neil asking about the AI squad building with Neil saying "try the demo", the demo is useless to judge this. You're not likely to get something like that. When the game is out, ask one of your buddies to do that so you can see and decide if you want to play the game or not. I think the AI looking at specific roles rather than general positions is a big deal. You don't? Fine. As Neil said on Page 1, daylight, please stop now with this. SI has given you and everyone else an answer already. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 As Neil said on Page 1, daylight, please stop now with this. SI has given you and everyone else an answer already. Thanks. Fine, thanks for the quote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Is that not the part that Hunt3r quoted from Neil?Again it is really vague if it is. Given how many players complain about this and how important it is to the long term save SI really should be showing us something about it. Maybe showing a team 10 years from now and how the AI has built the squad, saying how it has changed since previous versions, a simple "something they'll be looking at" with regards to the new player roles is hardly confidence inspiring. At the moment I actually find the silence saying a lot, I even seen a thread closed by Neil asking about the AI squad building with Neil saying "try the demo", the demo is useless to judge this. We'll know soon enough from those that will have the beta and then the full game. The reason they're not going in depth about it on here is probably because the people who specifically work on AI squad building don't post on here. Neil can't probably say much because he works on the forum software and things like that so he probably doesn't know the specifics. They're not promoting the squad building improvements because it's only the hardcore on here who give a damn. Basically we just have to be patient and make a decision after the game is released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I am not sure I see AI squad building as that big an issue, but do get that it seems to be for quite a few people on here. I've built a bit of a super team in Germany, now in 2025 (with Leipzig) so it's been a journey, just (or finally) won 3 leagues on the bounce, but then Dortmund, Schalke and Bayern have bounced back and I've not won the league for two seasons. If AI was that messed up, they'd never bounce back would they? AI is a long way from being better than a human isn't it?? Or on a game of this much resources and scope, but it's not as bad for me as some seem to think. I've seen it a lot worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 AI is a long way from being better than a human isn't it?? Or on a game of this much resources and scope, but it's not as bad for me as some seem to think. I've seen it a lot worse. I think people are rightly peeved that iteration after iteration, we see a 38 year old Cristiano Ronaldo wheeled out at Real Madrid, who are sitting on millions of Euros and could have replaced him a decade ago with the "new Ronaldo". AI squad building is an issue which can make the game too easy after 5+ seasons. Hopefully the continued tweaks to this area make a difference this year. However, I agree with you that whilst this is a problem historically, it isn't automatically a cakewalk to the title in spite of these quirks which are in our favour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 We mustn't forget about the new scouting system. It should make it a little more difficult to find and buy young superstars of the future. However, I agree with you that whilst this is a problem historically, it isn't automatically a cakewalk to the title in spite of these quirks which are in our favour. FM15 is almost out. I'm in 2038 and I've still not won the Champions League on FM14 yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think people are rightly peeved that iteration after iteration, we see a 38 year old Cristiano Ronaldo wheeled out at Real Madrid, who are sitting on millions of Euros and could have replaced him a decade ago with the "new Ronaldo". AI squad building is an issue which can make the game too easy after 5+ seasons. Hopefully the continued tweaks to this area make a difference this year.However, I agree with you that whilst this is a problem historically, it isn't automatically a cakewalk to the title in spite of these quirks which are in our favour. Fair one. But real life transfers can not always make sense either though. Jack Rodwell and Man City, Liverpool and Andy Carrol, Bebe and Vitoria to Man Utd and away again. I am looking forward to the game. The features look nice. Everyone knows it will be what it is here. Patches will be released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 FM15 is almost out. I'm in 2038 and I've still not won the Champions League on FM14 yet. That may be more down to the player than the game though. *runs the fine line of not mentioning anything to do with squad building* ............ doh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 That may be more down to the player than the game though. *runs the fine line of not mentioning anything to do with squad building* ............ doh! Actually - if AI squad building was *that* bad, HUNT3R would have won the Champions League. Unless........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hey, I won leagues! It just took me a while With the scouting system change, it might take even longer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Unless........ Indeed. Hunt3r may need a hug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMacks88 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Has the Beta ever come out earlier than expected? I am dying here, didn't play FM 14 due to a broken laptop. I want it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Has the Beta ever come out earlier than expected? I am dying here, didn't play FM 14 due to a broken laptop. I want it! Beta's are like trains. Only ever later than you want them to be (and no, that is NOT an official comment ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio MVP Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Haha RT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMacks88 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I dare FM to release the BETA tomorrow night, if they don't they are chicken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I dare FM to release the BETA tomorrow night, if they don't they are chicken Yeah that will get them going .... KingMack dares you! He dares you! In truth you should have used the 'cluck, cluck, cluck' sounds, that may have pushed them over the edge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio MVP Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Play some Final Countdown KingMack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Do you have this attitude with every game you buy? I'm buying The Evil Within for the PS4 tomorrow. I haven't been all over the developer's forum demanding they tell me everything that's in the game. I like the premise of it, I've seen a few gameplay videos of it, and it's a genre I enjoy playing, therefore I'll buy it. As far as this game goes, it's Football Manager, you know what it'll be. The same game it always is with various improvements and enhancements. When did the customer base get so flaming precious? They want to sell a product, i´m asking about said product, as i do not know if i´ll buy or not. That is simple, it is logical and therefore i´m doing it. Just like i would if i was being sold a phone, a computer or anything else where the new product should surpass the old. I´d ask about specs and guess what, i´d actually get an answer. Not just "It´s being improved every year". SI are making a claim, then to some extent prove it or atleast offer some information about it. They released 30 minutes of footage, they had press conferences as a new feature, but it really is´nt. Just like AI improvements is´nt a new feature, but an improvement. So why are we being told about press conference improvements, but not in regards to the AI? Ai is a huge part of the game and throughout the years, numerous of threads and posts have revolved around this exact part of the game. And the company line is "it´s being improved". That is just not good enough and therefore i´m asking about it. If you dont have anything to offer in regards to my questions about ai - which you don´t - then just move along, as im not interested in your opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 You got more than "it's being worked on". I have repeated this a few times now and I'm not going to again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 You got more than "it's being worked on". I have repeated this a few times now and I'm not going to again. IIf you are referring to post 612, i jsut got to laugh. I could not care less about what you want to do or do not want to do. I´m asking SI a question, about their game on their forum. I´m looking for further elaboration on those couple of lines, if you can´t deliver exactly that, then there is no point in answering me again and again and again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 IIf you are referring to post 612, i jsut got to laugh. I could not care less about what you want to do or do not want to do. I´m asking SI a question, about their game on their forum.I´m looking for further elaboration on those couple of lines, if you can´t deliver exactly that, then there is no point in answering me again and again and again. If they can and want to elaborate, they will. Just be patient then, but don't expect an answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Beta's are like trains. Only ever later than you want them to be (and no, that is NOT an official comment ) Like train - better to be a bit late than to crash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I think this is a big release for SI this year having many medium/long term fans underwhelmed by the offerings of the last two years and the underdeveloped match engine particularly. I think another weak offering will turn people off it for a while. Personally, having played football manager games for years, the last two years were the least enjoyable games made by SI, having produced the most immersive games for about 20 years prior…if the trend continues this year will be hard to keep buying…it could be 3 strikes and you’re out. It has been an interesting approach this year from SI...last two years there was much more hype from SI around the releases focusing on enhancements in graphics and the new match engine. In essence the general feeling is that both were underdelivered. I'm wondering whether SI have learned a lesson in that they're managing expectations this year...is it that they don't want to raise customer expectations and have that anti-climatic/disappointed feeling permeate the forums and buyers as they haven't improved things much or have they legitimately had very strong development cycle this year and are underplaying things so that customers will be more than satisfied on release giving the feeling of ‘they’re back on track’ with a 'promise less, deliver more' approach and have finally seen some potential of the match engine realised…certainly I hope it’s the latter and we see huge improvements in the elusive balancing of the match engine and the non slidiness/ice hockey viewing of matches…would be great if that is case…we’ll see soon enough I guess… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleFan Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Neil/Hunter i don't know if you guys know the answer to this but being a Guiseley fan, They have a Main squad and then a U21, U16, and then on their site they have a Academy squad and then a development squad.. My question is on their development squad they have players from Jan-April 2000 range and are listed as 14 yrs of age... my question is does fm15 have like a U16 squad or just U18 is the lowest and also is 15 still the lowest age for youth or is it changed to 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Love how people turn to amateur psychology and imply hugely in depth motivation and/or deviousness by SI to justify their theories It's quite simple, advertising tack is somewhat different this year as mediums have changed somewhat and many of us haven't kept up so expect this forum to be central to it all, well it isn't any more. There's still time before release to hype it some more and I'm sure they will, I'm also sure nothing much has changed in the way they're making testing and selling the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flogside Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 To be honest, and this sounds more harsh than its actually meant, but I dont pay much attention to you Mods when it comes to topics like this as it feels like you never disagree with anything SI do or say so. Other topics are of course different and you have all offered valuable input so no offense meant. Just my opinion. Either way i still underwhelmed by it all and disappointed that its clear the main focus currently, and for the last few years, is the 3d engine! Kriss im sorry but even with social media platforms that they use and other ways to market the game its still a very quiet release. Perhaps it is just to manage expectations this year as they havent made many big changes. I guess we'll see! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akkm Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Lol whats even more interesting is people/companies doing things without consciously knowing why they are doing them that they've got burned by the avalanche of criticsm the last two years and perhaps lessons have been learned...of course that remains to be seen the medium of delivery was not what was questioned, nor the motivation or the message itself...more getting at the crux of things...have SI been able to deliver an enhanced product at its fundamental level (ie its match engine)...we shall see...we're all hoping they have... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtal Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 down to the how the Editor works In-game editor, official Editor or both? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr0zen Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 any idea if we can see the directors / owners and customize the cups to see a real version of the premier league trophy, la liga serie A etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spedding Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 In Neil/Hunter i don't know if you guys know the answer to this but being a Guiseley fan, They have a Main squad and then a U21, U16, and then on their site they have a Academy squad and then a development squad..My question is on their development squad they have players from Jan-April 2000 range and are listed as 14 yrs of age... my question is does fm15 have like a U16 squad or just U18 is the lowest and also is 15 still the lowest age for youth or is it changed to 14 players have to be 16 to be in gane just under 21 and under 18 squads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 To be honest, and this sounds more harsh than its actually meant, but I dont pay much attention to you Mods when it comes to topics like this as it feels like you never disagree with anything SI do or say so. Other topics are of course different and you have all offered valuable input so no offense meant. Just my opinion. Either way i still underwhelmed by it all and disappointed that its clear the main focus currently, and for the last few years, is the 3d engine! Kriss im sorry but even with social media platforms that they use and other ways to market the game its still a very quiet release. Perhaps it is just to manage expectations this year as they havent made many big changes. I guess we'll see! The last two lines of my post was an explanation of the response I got from SI when I pointed out privately that people seemed underwhelmed by the low key roll out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flogside Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 The last two lines of my post was an explanation of the response I got from SI when I pointed out privately that people seemed underwhelmed by the low key roll out Fair enough mate, like i said before its only on topics like that when i feel the mods are biased to whatever SI say, you're mods for the official forums so i dont blame you as such. Just my opinion anyway, of course i could be entirely wrong! I certainly value yours and the other mods input on everything else in regards to FM! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 The last two lines of my post was an explanation of the response I got from SI when I pointed out privately that people seemed underwhelmed by the low key roll out I'm just waiting on 1 of you mod type fellows to go all Forest Gump on us. "Life is like a box of chocolates...." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 More like a packet of hard toffees from where I'm sitting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMan Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 More like a packet of hard toffees from where I'm sitting When you have no teeth? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 When you have no teeth? Those worthington originals look like they would take some sucking. I can just imagine Kriss getting a packet of them for his Christmas and when he starts to suck on them his family commenting "ohh he will sleep tonight". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizbaII Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 From what I can tell in the video, SI is committed to displaying the full facet of being a manager at a football club, which is presumably what many people want. This is evident by the fact that they continue to work on press conferences, which many (probably most) players ask their AssMan to do for them. It seems to me that SI likes to work on many parts of their game at the same time. They prefer to make incremental changes to many things rather than big changes to one or two things. Thus, things like press conferences may not be where fans would like it to be for years yet. That is the same reason why some new features don't work as they should until years after they come out. Furthermore, they are just as interested in adding new features as they are in improving the features that are already there. This means that even features that many players are desperate for, like a superior match engine, or superior match animations, or better AI squad building, or more logical AI tactical personality only improve incrementally because there are other features that SI also have to work on. You have to understand this and be okay with this before you purchase one FM after the other thinking that the next one is going to be radically different than the one that came before. Personally, I think I'm going to buy FM 15. I've been playing FM 12 for years since I tried to move on to FM 13 but didn't like it as much as 12 (and I could tell without buying 14 that it was more or less the same), so I think maybe it's time to move to FM 15 now. I didn't want to deal with the growing pains of FM balancing the new match engine and overhauling the tactics input screens, since both of these things can affect the game play in a major way and they can ruin the FM experience if they are not perfect. Hopefully I'll now get the FM version where both of these things have had time to breathe and SI has had the opportunity to fix the inevitable issues and mistakes that happen when you roll out a feature for the first time. The new features that are being rolled out this year are features that are rather minor and I do not have any problem experiencing growing pains on them. As far as the press conferences, I hope they will be able to figure out a way to keep the press conferences, but give you the option of choosing whether you want to answer a lot, some, or only one or two questions before a match. Yes, I know you can skip questions, but it's not the same. A lot of people like the idea of having press conferences in the game because they can sometimes affect a player's performance IRL, but I don't think most people don't like answering a lot of questions before a match even if the questions are new every time. It'd be nice if you could ask the game to figure out the one most important question and ask that question...and depending on your response, maybe ask one more, and after two questions, that's it. I understand that FM is a simulation, but it is a simulation that people use for fun, and both of those things should be acknowledged in every feature. Now when we are talking about conversations with players, that is where more variety is badly needed. Those conversations don't happen as often as press conferences (at least for me), but when they do happen they are very important and you want to be able to say exactly what you mean to say. I think I am not the only one who has been dumbfounded with the lack of variety in this area. The good news from the video is I did see an (incremental) improvement in player conversations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 It would be handy to have a summary of what's in the video actually posted on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter T Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Ι ve seen the videos and read this topic and here's my two cents. I dont particularly care about changes and when or how they will be announced. I am (as most people who post in this forum) a FM junkie so, whatever FM offers, i ll take it. Having said that, i want just two things to work this year. 1st. The m.e. should be a lot better and quite ready from day1. I dont want to go into the ''m.e. vs your tactics thing'', FM14 m.e. has serious flaws, match altering flaws. People at SI know them they head a year to fix it, so fix it. 2nd. Player salaries. Totally ridiculous in FM14, a major problem. So, new changes and improvents? Fine, just fine. But fix these two or its the last time im buying it, however pretty the stadiums look or how many time i have to talk to the press Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujigatame Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I don't know if it's possible with the actual code but the game should be (or hopefully become) modular, no more FMC or the full fat game, just a single one where everyone could select (or deselect) what he's interested in, a sort of customization nirvana. Totally agree with this. Would love to play the full game without certain selected things, like tactical familiarity. It's generally the game's attempts at modeling psychology that bother me, most of the game is great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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