PMLF Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Ernesto Guevara was a communist mass-murderer. That is a fact.I'm just trying not being rude, but advertising a game with him is a sick idea. He surely was and got what he deserved in Bolivia and I would choose Thatcher over him any day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petros7 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I couldnt resist tbh I'm lovin' it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazza Pee Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 He surely was and got what he deserved in Bolivia and I would choose Thatcher over him any day. I'm sorry but are you not Brazilian? If you are then you don't know what Thatcher was like than us Brits do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nani17legend Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I understand that SI need to somehow make a little sensation while announcing the announcement of FM 09, but, c'mon why to depict changes in the game are you using communist mass-murderer?!?!I also know that in pop-culture he exist just like the "anarchy" sign - to be used by people who are too dumb to understand what it really means, but are nonetheless attracted by its (sign) popularity/connotations. But please respect people, who now sth more than media-crap about Che for example. Why wouldn't you use Josiph Stalin to describe player's total control of their clubs in the game, or sth like that? Che is an icon, but he is also exotic - even if he killed many people, and with his friend Fidel made life of another millions of them just like hell, it was soooo far away that noone would give a ****. Fighting for something you believe in as a revolutionary doesn't make you a murderer any more than anyone fighting in a war who kills people is, I was attracted to the image of him as someone who knew nothing about him, but after 6 months research for my A Level Spanish i realise who is really is which is not a mass-murderer, he joined the Cuban revolution as a medic and was just fighting for his beliefs against the unjust society in South America. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petros7 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 He surely was and got what he deserved in Bolivia and I would choose Thatcher over him any day. Many British and Argentinians wouldn't choose her, but that's an opinion! Are you from Brasil and does that have anything to do with it? (if you don't mind me asking of course, as I just want to point out that people interpret things differently sometimes when they're wearing their 'special made' glasses). By the way, what's your opinion on Thatcher's friendship with Pinochet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I'm sorry but are you not Brazilian? If you are then you don't know what Thatcher was like than us Brits do. Was Britain worse or better before her? I am pretty sure almost all economic indicators indicate the UK improved a lot after her. And as worse as she may have been, she didn't murder people nor tried to cause revolutions in several countries like Che Guevara did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameson Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 The understanding of context, sarcasm and a sense of humour can extent life, better than black and white vision! Yeah, tell it to the families of the victims. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krondor Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Suggest that topic starter is banned and topic closed before we see more of a nazi and hate messages from Pawel and the likes. BTW - Hasta La Victoria! KUTGW SI! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinsanity666 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Political blablabla... We're talking about a game here! Just would of thought SI to come up with something more inspirational for me to buy the game. This doesn't inspire me at all and is totally not football related...That trailer DOES inspire me. But this flyer or whatever it is just doesn't cut it for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw2255 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Does seem a little odd choice, but im not really bothered by it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Some people read far too much into things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinsanity666 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Does seem a little odd choice, but im not really bothered by it Yeah me neither, but it just totally desorientates from what i'm used of SI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petros7 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Yeah, tell it to the families of the victims. Mate, shame on you! I think that this topic has exhausted all the reasons (for hate) that it was made for and should be closed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moaner Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 can i add, very very clever move by SI marketing team. something very controversial to frontline a marketing campaign leads to what.....ATTENTION from the public. the public that will pay good money for the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanpeggs Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I thought i was on a forum containing topics on football manager however it appears i have signed up unwillingly to some sort of strange political websites on which people cry when SI have a picture with Che Guevara in. Unless someones relative was personally slaughtered by Che you geeks need to calm down and remember SI are game makers and not historians. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban_J88 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Young people are getting killed day in day out in various places throughout Britain, people are STILL starving in the world and dying each day from diseases which can be prevented. War is still evident in many ways throughout the world. People in this country worship men like Churchill, Wellington, Wallace, for doing the exact same as Che Guevara did, help their countries through war. How can we sit and argue what is merely an advertisement, when more than likely we are contradicting ourselves? Although we love the game, there are far more things in this world that are more important than this 'outrage. Guevara is as much a 'hero' as Churchill. If not, without a doubt moreso. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Unless someones relative was personally slaughtered by Che you geeks need to calm down and remember SI are game makers and not historians. Ignorance is no excuse. Shall we have Chairman Mao? Stalin? Hitler? The point remains that there is NO context in a frothy gaming way in which the use of Che Guevara is useful in any way. VB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
megafan2005 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 guys Che Guevera stands for Reveloution so it makes sence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanpeggs Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Ignorance is no excuse. Shall we have Chairman Mao? Stalin? Hitler? The point remains that there is NO context in a frothy gaming way in which the use of Che Guevara is useful in any way. VB Once again calm down......it's a game. Personally i would be slightly amused if a picture of Hitler was used and would certainly not go crying on this forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 http://notalwaysright.com/che-guevara-rapping-revolutionary/1137 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup_is_cool Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 http://notalwaysright.com/che-guevara-rapping-revolutionary/1137 lol nice one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petros7 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 http://notalwaysright.com/che-guevara-rapping-revolutionary/1137 Context; spot on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinsanity666 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 http://notalwaysright.com/che-guevara-rapping-revolutionary/1137 Priceless! Good thing i have a mastercard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Once again calm down......it's a game.Personally i would be slightly amused if a picture of Hitler was used and would certainly not go crying on this forum I am calm. You cannot determine my mental state from uninflected type. However, it's not a game. It's an iconic (with all that entails) image of someone used in an advertising context to try and either rub some of the perceived kudos that Che has amongst those whos knowledge comes from Fox or Sky News rather than impartial information sources, or to use a single aspect of his persona (his perceived revolutionary leanings) to indicate that FM is somehow a revolution. Without wishing to get as pedantic as Miles dissertation upon the use of the word disaster, a revolution is certainly wont be. Can't be. So if they wanted to merely indicated that it's revolutionary they could have used a much less insensitive image. If they REALLY were determined to use a political image that indicates revolution solely, then perhaps the student in front of the tank in Tianamon Square? Politically neutral and guaranteed not to cause offence. And if you honestly can proclaim Hitler as amusing, you really need to brush up on your history and try and gain a thing called a conscience. VB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban_J88 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 So if they wanted to merely indicated that it's revolutionary they could have used a much less insensitive image. If they REALLY were determined to use a political image that indicates revolution solely, then perhaps the student in front of the tank in Tianamon Square? Politically neutral and guaranteed not to cause offence. VB The student who did that has never been found. No-one knows if he's alive or dead, apart from himself and his close family and friends i imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMaster#28 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 then perhaps the student in front of the tank in Tianamon Square? Politically neutral and guaranteed not to cause offence. That photo/incident is politically neutral? Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban_J88 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 That photo/incident is politically neutral? Really? Good point. Pro-revolutionary. Much like Che. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 See my early post regarding people reading too much into things. Get over it already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petros7 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 And if you honestly can proclaim Hitler as amusing, you really need to brush up on your history and try and gain a thing called a conscience.VB I think Hitler is very amusing, especially when used within context, a sense of humour and 'pantomimed' by John Cleese... "but please, whatever you do, do not mention the war"! 'Always look on the bright side of life'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanpeggs Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 If they REALLY were determined to use a political image that indicates revolution solely, then perhaps the student in front of the tank in Tianamon Square? Politically neutral and guaranteed not to cause offence. I don't think that is completely true as that image will most likely offend many people i would imagine. And if you honestly can proclaim Hitler as amusing, you really need to brush up on your history and try and gain a thing called a conscience. VB Actually sire I got an A at history a level Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 can i add, very very clever move by SI marketing team. something very controversial to frontline a marketing campaign leads to what.....ATTENTION from the public. the public that will pay good money for the game. You seriously think this will get attention from anyone other than a few self-righteous nuts in GQ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moaner Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 i like sausages, mash and beans. what does everyone else like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawd Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Look at the end of th day it's just a picture, and an iconic symbol in 20th century pop culture, and like all symbols it won't be met with universal approval. Personally I like Che, I like and admire what he stood for and how he became who he did. But as it has already been said on here one mans terrorist is another freedom fighter. Not totally sure if the SI forums are the right place to have this discussion either to be fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smac Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yeah, I guess it is a Big Deal for those of you who have cast SI as the State (in your minds) and now like good socialists (ironic, that) expect it to provide an untainted front of unreality for you to consume while you enslave your soul to the opinions of others.How's that for an anarchist critique? Nice one Serpico ! Discuss your projection of authority onto the state and then onto SI. Fess up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earmack Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 It seems it's ok to forget the implications of the past then turn it into something trendy, because forgetting what actually happened in the past is no big deal...right? Lets all laugh at the antics of 'revolutionaries' (most dictators have achieved power by promising revolution), I'm pretty sure if you people had been effected by this you all would give a ****, this only shows the shallow nature of your good selves and your complete lack of empathy. Sure this is a games forum but over half the people on here are like 'yo chill man nothin means anything lol'. Maybe this sort of attitude isn't healthy.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 As the old saying goes "If you can't laugh at Hitler, you can't laugh at anything." Humour is an amazing way of dealing with issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvg Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 im sorry but Che Guevara is part of world history there's no denying his existence. but surely si are only using it as a picture- word association. im pretty sure there not creating a shooter depicting the uprising in cuba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpico Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 So we need a figure that we can associate with a revolution, but one that's not got blood on his hands. I know the very man. Fresh from his crusade to reunite East and West Germany, I give you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie MUFC Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 So we need a figure that we can associate with a revolution, but one that's not got blood on his hands. I know the very man. Fresh from his crusade to reunite East and West Germany, I give you NNNNOOOOOOOO! *runs* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 So if they wanted to merely indicated that it's revolutionary they could have used a much less insensitive image. If they REALLY were determined to use a political image that indicates revolution solely, then perhaps the student in front of the tank in Tianamon Square? Politically neutral and guaranteed not to cause offence. It actually took me a second to realise you were being serious. I then sat in open mouthed incredulity for a few minutes. No matter how much that image may align to your own version of the world, it will likely offend the government that represents more people on this planet that any other. And a fair percentage of those people as well. It might not offend right wing Western pseudo-intellectuals, but that is hardly the point, is it? Despite those wishing to portray Guevara as a 'communist mass-murderer' others have described him as 'an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom' and 'not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age'. Nelson Mandela and Jean-Paul Satre if you are interested. He also undoubtedly ruthlessly killed people, including his own men. Unfortunately, not everything in this world is as black and white as many of us would like it to be. Ultimately, it is up to you how you wish to view Guevera. However, you should probably engage your brain to a level above 'Western value-based rebellion = good, non-Western value-based rebellion = bad'. As for the image offending people, it will almost certainly upset Miami based Cuban-Americans and octogenerian Bolivian peasants. To all of those reading this, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban_J88 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Despite those wishing to portray Guevara as a 'communist mass-murderer' others have described him as 'an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom' and 'not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age'. Beautifully put indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Come Clarity Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Some people have too much time to rant about stuff on the interwebz. Sorry, but it's pitiful that you find the need to scorn the image given it's context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwityke Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 To the people who think Che Guevarra is a terrorist, I bet you support and admire Nelson Mandela... Yet Mandela was arrested tried, and convicted of terrorism for a series of bombings orchestrated by his group, with the aim of freeing his people (the blacks), from an oppressive regime (the whites). In other words he has blood on his hands too. Che did exactly the same the thing, just his people were the oppressed anywhere in the world. For the record I admire both men greatly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 If I wasn't thinking of buying FM09, the Hoff would be all it took to change my mind! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
u Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 You stand up against dictators, you are a terrorist. You stand up for the poor, you are a terrorist. How about getting some idea about someone before you label him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 It is ironic the system that labels him a terrorist is the same one that uses him on t-shirts.Oh and Che is a better man then all the people calling him a terrorist. What use are you if you are worse then a so called "terrorist"? Ask that to yourselves. Who cares Gotta love a world where offense is taken at a man being called a terrorist yet we would all have had a little chuckle if it had been Jesus' face despite it poking fun at peoples beliefs One rule for one and all that. The Gordon Brown one is my favourite, should have had a Gretna badge on his jacket Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 "Despite it poking fun at people's beliefs"? I'll be damned (as the expression goes) before I start worrying about offending people's religious beliefs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 "Despite it poking fun at people's beliefs"? I'll be damned (as the expression goes) before I start worrying about offending people's religious beliefs! Lol, I couldn't really care less either, but it just makes me laugh when people accept one form of idol ridicule and lament another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Lol, I couldn't really care less either, but it just makes me laugh when people accept one form of idol ridicule and lament another. The way I see it, we're all free to enter into debate about Football Manager and, apparently, Che Guevara(!) and we can ridicule each other as much as we like. My feeling is that 'religious belief' should not automatically grant Jesus or God or Muhammad or Shiva or anyone else freedom from being debated or ridiculed. But this is soooo off-topic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Byt this is soooo off-topic! It feels like a pub conversation as I try to right the world with my pearls of wisdom. I agree 100% Mike7077, but it is NOT OK to ridicule the King Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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