SCIAG Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Some people can be so hypercritical on matters like this. A lot of people hate Stalin but like Churchill, because Churchill "won us the war". But if it wasn't for Stalin, we'd've lost. Similar here. How anyone can doubt Thatcher's evilness... she took away school milk!!! And as for Hitler's comedy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
red rainbow Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 It actually took me a second to realise you were being serious. I then sat in open mouthed incredulity for a few minutes. No matter how much that image may align to your own version of the world, it will likely offend the government that represents more people on this planet that any other. And a fair percentage of those people as well. It might not offend right wing Western pseudo-intellectuals, but that is hardly the point, is it?Despite those wishing to portray Guevara as a 'communist mass-murderer' others have described him as 'an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom' and 'not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age'. Nelson Mandela and Jean-Paul Satre if you are interested. He also undoubtedly ruthlessly killed people, including his own men. Unfortunately, not everything in this world is as black and white as many of us would like it to be. Ultimately, it is up to you how you wish to view Guevera. However, you should probably engage your brain to a level above 'Western value-based rebellion = good, non-Western value-based rebellion = bad'. As for the image offending people, it will almost certainly upset Miami based Cuban-Americans and octogenerian Bolivian peasants. To all of those reading this, sorry. ... Jean Paul Sartre who ? Does he play in CFA, National or 2nd Division ? Talk me about his stamina !!! Seriously, I quote at 100% every word of your post, wwfan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Some people can be so hypercritical on matters like this.A lot of people hate Stalin but like Churchill, because Churchill "won us the war". But if it wasn't for Stalin, we'd've lost. Similar here. How anyone can doubt Thatcher's evilness... she took away school milk!!! And as for Hitler's comedy... I hate milk. Cogito ergo sum... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventresto Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 People seriously need to stop talking about hitler and finding comedy in him. One, he singlehandedly ordereed the killing of 6 million jews an hundereds of thousands of gays, communists and disabled people. If people think that the deaths of millions of people are a great source of humour then i honestly feel for you. You must be so blind to the happenings in the world. It seems that Hitler is being taken too lightly by a lot of people recently. I swear, if someone honestly doesn't understand why joking about him is completely inapropriate, then there is a serious problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 You're all completely missing the point IMO. Maybe it's SI's way of telling us that there are going to be REVOLUTIONARY changes in the forthcoming release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 People seriously need to stop talking about hitler and finding comedy in him. One, he singlehandedly ordereed the killing of 6 million jews an hundereds of thousands of gays, communists and disabled people. If people think that the deaths of millions of people are a great source of humour then i honestly feel for you. You must be so blind to the happenings in the world. It seems that Hitler is being taken too lightly by a lot of people recently. I swear, if someone honestly doesn't understand why joking about him is completely inapropriate, then there is a serious problem I don't think people find direct humour in any of what you just said. At least, I hope they don't. Where the humour may lie (or not, depending on your opinion) is in saying things for shock value. People might laugh, but it's not at the acts perpetrated or at the victims, but at the fact someone said something so un-PC. It's a guilty laugh, if you like. The laugh of someone who knows they shouldn't laugh. It's not that they see what took place as in any way funny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Life is too serious to be taken serioulsy: Oscar Wilde Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy for those who think: Jean de La Bruyere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I heard he hit a prostitute: Alan Partridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblets_of_fire Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 People seriously need to stop talking about hitler and finding comedy in him. One, he singlehandedly ordereed the killing of 6 million jews an hundereds of thousands of gays, communists and disabled people. If people think that the deaths of millions of people are a great source of humour then i honestly feel for you. You must be so blind to the happenings in the world. It seems that Hitler is being taken too lightly by a lot of people recently. I swear, if someone honestly doesn't understand why joking about him is completely inapropriate, then there is a serious problem Has South Park taught you nothing, 21 years has passed so Hitler is officially funny!! Of course no-one seriosuly thinks Hitler is Jimmy Carr with a moustache, he was one of the most evil men ever to walk on the the earth and i doubt anyone would say otherwise. But how can you expect people to truly understand the impact of Hitler when most of the people on these boards have never had to live under an oppressive regime and as such simply cant comprehend the true horror of it. As for all this fuss about the use of Che, i have to agree with Ackter, just get over it, cant you all see that SI are using him as a symbolic image not a literal one. However misguided it is, Che Guvara stand for revolution, thats all Si are saying, that FM09 is a revolution. Thats all there is too it. Jeez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
profii Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 you have to consider, that with SI using an image of Che Guevara in their marketing, if you are for or against the usage, it doesnt matter because the controversy surrounding him means you are all talking about FM which is what SI are going to want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 you have to consider, that with SI using an image of Che Guevara in their marketing, if you are for or against the usage, it doesnt matter because the controversy surrounding him means you are all talking about FM which is what SI are going to want. Well, we're actually talking about Che Guevara, Hitler, Jesus et al. And Nomis07 is quoting Alan Partridge... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 And Nomis07 is quoting Alan Partridge... I felt the thread needed to be dragged out of the gutter and a little intellectual thinking injected. As for the whole Hitler thing, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to say that his actions or theories were funny, but the image of Hitler and many of his personal vices (one ball, moustache and water sports) have become a caricature over time and I don't even think we are laughing at Hitler anymore, but a comedic character that probably didn't exist. Maggie is a whole different kettle of fish, she wasn't really funny because to the naked eye she just looked like a posh Nan, so there was nothing really comdedic there and then all of a sudden we found out she was an evil posh Nan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Well, we're actually talking about Che Guevara, Hitler, Jesus et al. And Nomis07 is quoting Alan Partridge... I felt the thread needed to be dragged out of the gutter and a little intellectual thinking injected. I can't eat a fry-up anymore without being reminded of Alan Partridge's lesson to Sonja about cholesterol and Scottish people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aenariel Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 You're all completely missing the point IMO.Maybe it's SI's way of telling us that there are going to be REVOLUTIONARY changes in the forthcoming release. Exactly. I'm certain it has nothing to do with communism or murders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Perhaps communism and murders are new additions to the game. You could get a new owner who built their wealth on the plight of civilians in a communist regime or you can write a murder mystery novel and feel like Steve Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauvner Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Perhaps communism and murders are new additions to the game. You could get a new owner who built their wealth on the plight of civilians in a communist regime or you can write a murder mystery novel and feel like Steve Bruce. Roman Abromovic with Chelsea? Im joking people dont brand me a hating soul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallout Man Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 The Real Che http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcwxHq3oc4M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerro Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Using Che as a symbol for revolution is like using Hitler as a symbol for power or Stalin as a symbol for control. Would either Hitler or Stalin have been acceptable? And I don't see why the use of Stalin is fine and Hitler is not. Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did and Stalin killed his own people (even his own family). The difference is that Stalin was never demonised as Hitler was, because Stalin helped us win WW2 and despite killing 60 million of his own people, they still (to this day) think he was there greatest ever leader. Ask the Germans if they think Hitler was a great man and they'd take huge offence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Using Che as a symbol for revolution is like using Hitler as a symbol for power or Stalin as a symbol for control. Would either Hitler or Stalin have been acceptable?And I don't see why the use of Stalin is fine and Hitler is not. Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did and Stalin killed his own people (even his own family). The difference is that Stalin was never demonised as Hitler was, because Stalin helped us win WW2 and despite killing 60 million of his own people, they still (to this day) think he was there greatest ever leader. Ask the Germans if they think Hitler was a great man and they'd take huge offence. No no no! There is a world of difference between Che Guevara and Hitler and Stalin! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NepentheZ Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I've read through a fair old few of the posts on here, and I'm quite glad that people are standing up for Gueavara. IMHO, the guy is a legend, and could teach many men a thing or two. As for the Brown / Thatcher / Edmonds / Hoff pictures. I can but only ask one question. Where on earth do you get greyed out perfectly sized heads with "that look" from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowcrapup Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Mao killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined and his face kept appearing in the background of Olympics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Che Guevara a legend? I'm not sure about that. I'd say his efforts produced a mixed bag. On the one hand, much of Latin America is more prosperous and is freer thanks at least in part to his work. But you have to remember that capitalism has also played some part in that. And let's not forget that Cuba, which is somewhere we perhaps most closely associate with Guevara and which followed his preferred economic model, is an absolute mess and has some of the lowest living standards in the region. Even if you admire Guevara's social ideals, I'm not sure he's worthy of 'legend' status, whatever that means. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NepentheZ Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Mother Nature is the greatest killer of them all. But you don't complain when theres a lovely picture of a river..... Or how about the 1,000 deaths per year from fallen tree's? Perhaps we should outlaw those for ad campaigns too. And don't even get me started on Rain. Wooooooooohhhhh now. Can't be using that in an old campiagneyyyyyyy. [/doug heffener voice] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowcrapup Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Mother Nature is the greatest killer of them all. But you don't complain when theres a lovely picture of a river..... Or how about the 1,000 deaths per year from fallen tree's? Perhaps we should outlaw those for ad campaigns too. And don't even get me started on Rain. Wooooooooohhhhh now. Can't be using that in an old campiagneyyyyyyy. [/doug heffener voice] Lol Don't forget that in India one of the main non natural modes of death involves Coconuts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzilikazi Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Context. Context. Context. Aruta Continua!!!! FM > Che Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frame Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I understand that SI need to somehow make a little sensation while announcing the announcement of FM 09, but, c'mon why to depict changes in the game are you using communist mass-murderer?!?!I also know that in pop-culture he exist just like the "anarchy" sign - to be used by people who are too dumb to understand what it really means, but are nonetheless attracted by its (sign) popularity/connotations. But please respect people, who now sth more than media-crap about Che for example. Why wouldn't you use Josiph Stalin to describe player's total control of their clubs in the game, or sth like that? Che is an icon, but he is also exotic - even if he killed many people, and with his friend Fidel made life of another millions of them just like hell, it was soooo far away that noone would give a ****. It's only a picture. There's no need to get your knickers in a twist about it.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzilikazi Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yeah! Untwist your knickers you lot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bod1035 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 so people are no longer just happy about complaining about the actual game, they now have to moan about a picture promoting it. That picture of Che Guevara is just a symbol that conjours the image of revolution, nothing more nothing less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerro Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Mother Nature is the greatest killer of them all. But you don't complain when theres a lovely picture of a river..... Or how about the 1,000 deaths per year from fallen tree's? Perhaps we should outlaw those for ad campaigns too. And don't even get me started on Rain. Wooooooooohhhhh now. Can't be using that in an old campiagneyyyyyyy. [/doug heffener voice] Life has a 100% chance of death. I'm not saying ban Che Gievara but at least acknowledge that the guy was hardly a saint and isn't the "great man" he is now being portrayed as! No no no! There is a world of difference between Che Guevara and Hitler and Stalin![/Quote]What makes you so sure? Che never had the position of power that Hitler and Stalin had, Castro did and he hasn't exactly turned Cuba around his coming to power has he? He has however made plenty of people "disappear" and profitted immensely from it - not very Marxist is it? Che was responsible for executing people after the revolution and he then went off to start "revolutions" in other countries - regardless if they actually wanted a revolution. The only thing he knew, was to fight, start wars all in the name of "the people" - but did it benefit them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NepentheZ Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 so people are no longer just happy about complaining about the actual game, they now have to moan about a picture promoting it. That picture of Che Guevara is just a symbol that conjours the image of revolution, nothing more nothing less. Oh come on. Its not as simple as one or the other, ying and yang, black and white, Chalk and Cheese and you know it. What you don't know however, is why it isn't that simple. And thats what makes you think its that simple. I, on the other hand happen to know why its a little deeper than "a basic symbol". Argentinian drug lords financed much of the South American gaming industry through 3rd party money attained by selling drugs on the streets. These drugs eventually sifted through South America and up into North America, and even Africa a little. As you may well know Che is Argentinian, and was a massive figurehead in Distribution of the drugs, and the money gained from it. A company called "Standard Games" were caught up in financial difficulty in Hawaii, and turned to Che's brilliant offer of illegal drug money, on the basis that they follow his 2 rules. Rule 1. The name of the company "Standard Games" is changed to "Service Games" (Which we now know as "SeGa", and moves to Tokyo - where it can expand. Rule 2. His intervention into saving the company is reflected by the fact that Sega team up with SI in time for FM09 (As you can clearly tell by the released of "FM05", sega are well ahead of schedule here) - and have his picture used in the advertising campaign. Both rules were heeded by Standard Games, in fear of being killed by this callous communist bas****. At least, thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bod1035 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Oh come on. Its not as simple as one or the other, ying and yang, black and white, Chalk and Cheese and you know it. What you don't know however, is why it isn't that simple. And thats what makes you think its that simple.I, on the other hand happen to know why its a little deeper than "a basic symbol". Argentinian drug lords financed much of the South American gaming industry through 3rd party money attained by selling drugs on the streets. These drugs eventually sifted through South America and up into North America, and even Africa a little. As you may well know Che is Argentinian, and was a massive figurehead in Distribution of the drugs, and the money gained from it. A company called "Standard Games" were caught up in financial difficulty in Hawaii, and turned to Che's brilliant offer of illegal drug money, on the basis that they follow his 2 rules. Rule 1. The name of the company "Standard Games" is changed to "Service Games" (Which we now know as "SeGa", and moves to Tokyo - where it can expand. Rule 2. His intervention into saving the company is reflected by the fact that Sega team up with SI in time for FM09 (As you can clearly tell by the released of "FM05", sega are well ahead of schedule here) - and have his picture used in the advertising campaign. Both rules were heeded by Standard Games, in fear of being killed by this callous communist bas****. At least, thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. LOL. great story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopy D Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Top quality post as always Nep Personally I don't care who or what they use to advertise FM09, I'm still buying it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I don't know what's going on tbh, but i'm impressed that a thread has reached two pages withoput "cheat" or "it's your tactics" being mentioned. Is this a new dawn for the SI Forums I would have preferred an advert of a T shirt with SI staff urinating on a copy of CM, taking their lead from Lee Trundle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthiele Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisescummer Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Che was responsible for executing people after the revolution and he then went off to start "revolutions" in other countries - regardless if they actually wanted a revolution. The only thing he knew, was to fight, start wars all in the name of "the people" - but did it benefit them? Wait a minute, isn't that the basis of American foreign policy since at least 1950? They fight wars to get their guys in, Guevara fought wars to get his guy in. Is either right? Probably no, but how can we admire people like Kennedy, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton or either Bush and condemn people like Guevara? The phrase 'Same ****, different asshole' comes to mind. Also who cares what is used to advertise the game? Why is it such a big problem? Last time I looked Guevara was dead. So unless using him to advertise FM09 is some sort of magic spell that returns him to life, or the sight of this turn millions into revolutionaries, this isn't going to harm anybody. For those who say this is disrespectful to those he killed, I don't think they really mind. They're dead for a start... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Ha matthiele actually brought less to this thread than me, i'm impressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasma Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 couldnt you have used a pic of michael collins instead of che. at least he wasnt a commy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bRAzIL Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 haha, Some people are taking this the wrong way. Whatever your opinion (and I blame Wiki for some of them) of this man, it's clear SI are indicating FM09 is a revolutionary game! Get a grip! Love the Maggie Thatcher one - I didn't know she banned school milk!! EVIL! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamenaglar Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I thought SI is all about evolution, not revolution. I have a feeling I'm gonna hate it. Poor advertising IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I thought SI is all about evolution, not revolution. What's with Alan Patridge in this thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidoff21 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Love Che Guevara he's like my faaav revolutionary. Love the people who can't wait to explain their truth about Che Guevara, in this context on a computer game forum who cares! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamenaglar Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Love Che Guevara he's like my faaav revolutionary. Love the people who can't wait to explain their truth about Che Guevara, in this context on a computer game forum who cares! I care! What's with Alan Patridge in this thread Who's Alan Patridge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NepentheZ Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Who's Alan Patridge? Oh dear. I suggest you YouTube Mr. Patridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Who's Alan Patridge? He's a similar character to Che Guevara. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougess Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Who's Alan Patridge? I'm Alan Partridge!................................ was a show about a man called Alan Partridge, played by Steve Coogan, and how he has "bounced back" since his show "Knowing Me, Knowing You" (which was a real program) was cancelled on the BBC. The "revolution, not evolution" thing comes from the episode when he has a meeting with a chief commissioner at the BBC. If you haven't seen it, which i'm tempted to guess you haven't, it's one of the funniest shows on earth imho Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard76 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I'm disgusted by the use of this image. Politics and FM have no place together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamenaglar Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I'm Alan Partridge!................................ was a show about a man called Alan Partridge, played by Steve Coogan, and how he has "bounced back" since his show "Knowing Me, Knowing You" (which was a real program) was cancelled on the BBC. The "revolution, not evolution" thing comes from the episode when he has a meeting with a chief commissioner at the BBC. If you haven't seen it, which i'm tempted to guess you haven't, it's one of the funniest shows on earth imho I don't live in england so never had a chance to watch Mr. Partridge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Oh What A Circus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fqdd Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yes, I'm sure what SI were trying to say is that they support blood-spilled revolutions. What a bunch of 13 year-old girls making a big fuss out of whatever they can think of, geez... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobafett Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I like it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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